Moving to St Louis. Where to live?
December 28, 2004 7:29 AM Subscribe
St. Louis housing: I'm moving to St. Louis in May, but I don't know the neighborhoods. [more inside].
Ideally, I'm looking for an apartment or house (buy or rent) within easy walking distance of either my office (downtown, very near the arch, Olive and Fourth) or the metro, with a quick ride to the office. Ideally, I'd also like to live someplace within easy walking distance of a grocery store and a health club, and maybe some coffee shops and bookstores. Is this unrealistic?
About me: I'm a young, single professional. I don't know the city or anyone in it. I'd like to keep my rent as low as possible, but I'm willing to pay a bit to avoid the traffic hassles. I'm willing to live in a large closet, if need be. If I can't get a decent place within walking distance of my office, I'd settle for someplace within easy driving distance.
I would appreciate any suggestions you all could offer me. On suggestions from others, I'm primarily looking at the Central West End and Clayton, but I don't know how close those areas are to the downtown area.
I appreciate your help.
Ideally, I'm looking for an apartment or house (buy or rent) within easy walking distance of either my office (downtown, very near the arch, Olive and Fourth) or the metro, with a quick ride to the office. Ideally, I'd also like to live someplace within easy walking distance of a grocery store and a health club, and maybe some coffee shops and bookstores. Is this unrealistic?
About me: I'm a young, single professional. I don't know the city or anyone in it. I'd like to keep my rent as low as possible, but I'm willing to pay a bit to avoid the traffic hassles. I'm willing to live in a large closet, if need be. If I can't get a decent place within walking distance of my office, I'd settle for someplace within easy driving distance.
I would appreciate any suggestions you all could offer me. On suggestions from others, I'm primarily looking at the Central West End and Clayton, but I don't know how close those areas are to the downtown area.
I appreciate your help.
I haven't lived in StL since the late Cretaceous period but I'd be very surprised if Clayton isn't still an enclave of boring white people. CWE was the place for yuppie trendzoids but a lot more interesting than Clayton. I'm also out of touch with StL's mass transit situation but lived in Dogtown, which had none of the features you mention, was largely blue collar, but is convenient, but not close, to downtown; South City, which had more varied and, for me, interesting inhabitants than any of the previous and lots of great older buildings; and University City, which was, surprise, full of university students (Wash. U) and had the usual college-neighborhood amenities plus the most mixed culturally, ethnically, and economically area of the city.
St Louis is probably comparable to Ann Arbor in cost of living and drastically cheaper than East or West coast cities.
posted by TimeFactor at 7:59 AM on December 28, 2004
St Louis is probably comparable to Ann Arbor in cost of living and drastically cheaper than East or West coast cities.
posted by TimeFactor at 7:59 AM on December 28, 2004
I grew up in St. Louis and lived there during grad school. My wife and I lived in University City (just north and east of Clayton) and loved it. I worked downtown and took the MetroLink each morning. There's a stop at Skinker and Delmar; easy walk from the U. City Loop. We had a glorious two bedroom apartment, with a big eat-in kitchen, a formal dining room, and a sunroom, for $650 a month. This was only 3 years ago, but that area was becoming more expensive pretty rapidly and I'd bet the number is closer to 800 or 850 now.
U. City was great because there were lots of parks you could walk to, Delmar (where the "U. City Loop" is) has some nice bars and restaurants, there's the MetroLink, there's some nice diversity, there's a grocery store nearby, and Clayton is a short hop away. I can't recommend it highly enough.
The West End and Clayton are both good, too. They are a bit more upscale than U. City, and a bit more expensive. The West End has easy access to the MetroLink, and Clayton will soon.
Soulard (just south of downtown) is a really cool neighborhood, too. No access to the MetroLink, but buses to downtown are pretty easy to come by and the drive would be about 5-10 minutes.
Lofts and apartments downtown have been booming (look along Washington Street, don't go too much farther north than that), but I think the consensus is that it is still a bit impractical and expensive to live down there.
If you have specific questions you need answered, feel free to e-mail me. I live in Chicago now, but still love St. Louis and visit frequently.
Oh, and a good group to get involved in is Metropolis St. Louis. Their stated mission is "to create and promote an environment in the City of St. Louis that attracts and retains young people," and they have a number of fun, laid back events that give you an opportunity to get to know St. Louis and meet other young people who are committed to city living. Their website has a great section on relocating to St. Louis and picking out neighborhoods.
Good luck.
posted by AgentRocket at 8:04 AM on December 28, 2004
U. City was great because there were lots of parks you could walk to, Delmar (where the "U. City Loop" is) has some nice bars and restaurants, there's the MetroLink, there's some nice diversity, there's a grocery store nearby, and Clayton is a short hop away. I can't recommend it highly enough.
The West End and Clayton are both good, too. They are a bit more upscale than U. City, and a bit more expensive. The West End has easy access to the MetroLink, and Clayton will soon.
Soulard (just south of downtown) is a really cool neighborhood, too. No access to the MetroLink, but buses to downtown are pretty easy to come by and the drive would be about 5-10 minutes.
Lofts and apartments downtown have been booming (look along Washington Street, don't go too much farther north than that), but I think the consensus is that it is still a bit impractical and expensive to live down there.
If you have specific questions you need answered, feel free to e-mail me. I live in Chicago now, but still love St. Louis and visit frequently.
Oh, and a good group to get involved in is Metropolis St. Louis. Their stated mission is "to create and promote an environment in the City of St. Louis that attracts and retains young people," and they have a number of fun, laid back events that give you an opportunity to get to know St. Louis and meet other young people who are committed to city living. Their website has a great section on relocating to St. Louis and picking out neighborhoods.
Good luck.
posted by AgentRocket at 8:04 AM on December 28, 2004
The CWE or Clayton? I've lived in both over the last year so I'm hoping I can answer some questions for you.
First, Clayton is about half-again as far from downtown as the CWE. And the MetroLink is currently being extended to Clayton but doesn't yet run there. The CWE has a few MetroLink stops and it's pretty easy to take the MetroLink downtown to work. When I lived in the DeBaliviere neighborhood (a few blocks from the CWE; the CWE is east of Forest Park and DeBaliviere is north of Forest Park) my roommate took the MetroLink downtown to get to work every day. We lived about two blocks from the stop and it took him about 15 minutes to get to work. From Clayton heading downtown you'll have to deal with a lot of rush hour traffic.
The CWE also has more of the urban lifestyle it sounds like you're interested in. It has a number of coffee shops and health clubs and even a rather expensive grocery store that you could walk to. Clayton is more business oriented and as such it has a less vibrant nightlife. There are certainly things to do at night, but the lunch crowd will almost always out-number the evening crowd. You'll also pay a healthy premium to live in Clayton: it might be the most expensive place to live in St. Louis.
Before I fully sell you on the CWE, I should mention that it has a downside or two. First, the CWE is a lot like an oasis in the middle of a less-than-thriving area. If you drive for a block or two in the wrong direction you'll find yourself in very depressed neighborhoods. Crime is also a bit of a problem in the CWE. It is not uncommon at all to have your car or (even more commonly) the tags on your license plate stolen. Gated parking or a garage are pretty much a must.
As to other neighborhoods, AgentRocket pretty much hit that nail on the head. UCity is nice and MetroLink is either there or will be there soon depending on where in UCity you live. (The Loop has MetroLink access, for example, but the area closer to WashU doesn't.) Lofts downtown would be nice, but you might find them expensive. The downtown neighborhoods can also be hit-or-miss.
If you have some specific questions, please feel free to contact me directly. I can also give you the names of a few apartment complexes that I've had experience with.
Finally, this is somewhat off-topic but since you'll be moving to St. Louis I think you'll find this useful: Never pass up a chance to go to the City Museum. Don't be confused into thinking it's only for kids; it's open unitl 1am on the weekends for a reason.
posted by HiddenInput at 9:13 AM on December 28, 2004
First, Clayton is about half-again as far from downtown as the CWE. And the MetroLink is currently being extended to Clayton but doesn't yet run there. The CWE has a few MetroLink stops and it's pretty easy to take the MetroLink downtown to work. When I lived in the DeBaliviere neighborhood (a few blocks from the CWE; the CWE is east of Forest Park and DeBaliviere is north of Forest Park) my roommate took the MetroLink downtown to get to work every day. We lived about two blocks from the stop and it took him about 15 minutes to get to work. From Clayton heading downtown you'll have to deal with a lot of rush hour traffic.
The CWE also has more of the urban lifestyle it sounds like you're interested in. It has a number of coffee shops and health clubs and even a rather expensive grocery store that you could walk to. Clayton is more business oriented and as such it has a less vibrant nightlife. There are certainly things to do at night, but the lunch crowd will almost always out-number the evening crowd. You'll also pay a healthy premium to live in Clayton: it might be the most expensive place to live in St. Louis.
Before I fully sell you on the CWE, I should mention that it has a downside or two. First, the CWE is a lot like an oasis in the middle of a less-than-thriving area. If you drive for a block or two in the wrong direction you'll find yourself in very depressed neighborhoods. Crime is also a bit of a problem in the CWE. It is not uncommon at all to have your car or (even more commonly) the tags on your license plate stolen. Gated parking or a garage are pretty much a must.
As to other neighborhoods, AgentRocket pretty much hit that nail on the head. UCity is nice and MetroLink is either there or will be there soon depending on where in UCity you live. (The Loop has MetroLink access, for example, but the area closer to WashU doesn't.) Lofts downtown would be nice, but you might find them expensive. The downtown neighborhoods can also be hit-or-miss.
If you have some specific questions, please feel free to contact me directly. I can also give you the names of a few apartment complexes that I've had experience with.
Finally, this is somewhat off-topic but since you'll be moving to St. Louis I think you'll find this useful: Never pass up a chance to go to the City Museum. Don't be confused into thinking it's only for kids; it's open unitl 1am on the weekends for a reason.
posted by HiddenInput at 9:13 AM on December 28, 2004
Southwest Garden Represent here.
The area between Kingshighway and Hampton is whitebread and affordable. West of Hampton is St. Louis Hills which is nothing but old people.
I lived in Southhampton for 3.5 years. Lots of dive bars and Bosnian cafes. Great place to take walks. All Gingerbread houses and flowers in the yard.
Lindenwood park for a year. Lots of affordable apartments up Jamieson and Watson and I don't mean 'affordable housing' as a euphemism for ghetto.
Soulard for a little over a year before it got too pricey. Loved it.
Think of it like this.
South St. Louis is normal.
North St. Louis. Stay the everloving hell out of there.
Downtown is like the DMZ that cuts it in half.
As for affordable burbs (if you must live in the burbs), South County.
PS. You will drive EVERYWHERE. Forget Bi-State.
posted by pieoverdone at 9:26 AM on December 28, 2004
The area between Kingshighway and Hampton is whitebread and affordable. West of Hampton is St. Louis Hills which is nothing but old people.
I lived in Southhampton for 3.5 years. Lots of dive bars and Bosnian cafes. Great place to take walks. All Gingerbread houses and flowers in the yard.
Lindenwood park for a year. Lots of affordable apartments up Jamieson and Watson and I don't mean 'affordable housing' as a euphemism for ghetto.
Soulard for a little over a year before it got too pricey. Loved it.
Think of it like this.
South St. Louis is normal.
North St. Louis. Stay the everloving hell out of there.
Downtown is like the DMZ that cuts it in half.
As for affordable burbs (if you must live in the burbs), South County.
PS. You will drive EVERYWHERE. Forget Bi-State.
posted by pieoverdone at 9:26 AM on December 28, 2004
PS. Your idea of downtown is in fact unrealistic. It's a ghost town after 4pm and the only time anything is open on weekends is during sporting events.
Most of the downtown buildings are vacant. Seriously. I took Makonan there and she was like 'Where are all the stores?'. There aren't any.
Go up in the Arch. Take a look at the city from there. Email in profile if you want more info.
posted by pieoverdone at 9:29 AM on December 28, 2004
Most of the downtown buildings are vacant. Seriously. I took Makonan there and she was like 'Where are all the stores?'. There aren't any.
Go up in the Arch. Take a look at the city from there. Email in profile if you want more info.
posted by pieoverdone at 9:29 AM on December 28, 2004
The only place within walking distance that's halfway interesting are the Washington lofts. From the look of it, they're quite pricey, especially for a person on his own with no roommates. I actually used to work at 4th and Olive. One of my coworkers lived in the Mansion House apartments which were connected to my office building. He didn't even have to go outside to go to work. I never really got the chance to see how it was to live there. But pieoverdone is right. Downtown is a ghost town, with the exception of Washington, and then only a few blocks at that. If you don't have a car, you'll need one no matter where you end up living.
As for outside of downtown, some relatives of mine live in Dogtown, and it seems pretty nice and is in great shape.
Also, email me, gd779. I'm just curious who you're going to be working for.
posted by zsazsa at 9:39 AM on December 28, 2004
As for outside of downtown, some relatives of mine live in Dogtown, and it seems pretty nice and is in great shape.
Also, email me, gd779. I'm just curious who you're going to be working for.
posted by zsazsa at 9:39 AM on December 28, 2004
i laughed at the north/south dichotomy above - i've lived in st. louis for 3 years - have only gone north of olive (county) or 40 (city) .... about 10 times.
I think the above posts pretty much covered the basics - CWE sounds like your best bet - clayton is not anywhere near downtown StL (that's where i work)
one caveat, this anecdote will tell you more about StL than anything:
When i first moved here i asked various locals about whether this neighborhood or another was ok - the answer i invariably got was: "Yeah, it's pretty white." or, "No, it's kinda dark."
They didn't understand my look of shock at that answer.
posted by muddylemon at 12:04 PM on December 28, 2004
I think the above posts pretty much covered the basics - CWE sounds like your best bet - clayton is not anywhere near downtown StL (that's where i work)
one caveat, this anecdote will tell you more about StL than anything:
When i first moved here i asked various locals about whether this neighborhood or another was ok - the answer i invariably got was: "Yeah, it's pretty white." or, "No, it's kinda dark."
They didn't understand my look of shock at that answer.
posted by muddylemon at 12:04 PM on December 28, 2004
This thread is closed to new comments.
You may also want to consider South City. There are lots of nice older buildings there for reasonable prices.
Living in St. Louis is cheap. I don't know what your price range is, but when I last lived there (8 years ago), I had a nice one-bedroom apartment near Washington University for less than $500/month. Prices are still pretty comparable. My brother and his girlfriend have a large three-bedroom apartment in South City for $750/month.
Email me if you'd like more info.
posted by smich at 7:47 AM on December 28, 2004