Helping friends in financial difficulty
September 25, 2009 8:00 AM Subscribe
What's the best way for me to help out some friends who are in financial difficulty right now?
Two friends of mine, a married couple with a 15 month old son, are having some fairly severe financial difficulties. Both lost their jobs a few months ago and both are unable to find new jobs.
They're currently struggling to pay any bills or even rent. They've applied for crisis loans and are trying to claim unemployment benefits but seem to be having problems doing so. From the sounds of it, they're not quite at the stage of not being able to feed their son, but they will be there in another week or so.
Some further background: about a year ago, when the husband was in work but they were still in some difficulties, I lent them some money to help them with wedding expenses (around £600). I lent the money with the full expectation of not seeing it again and I realise that will most likely be the case.
I'm going out to see them in the next few days and was wondering what (if anything) I could do to help them out. I'm not too keen on giving them more money, as it may just be swallowed up by creditors and they may see very little of it (although it may buy them a few weeks/months respite). I'd prefer something that I knew went to them and their little baby.
A couple of things I've thought of are:
- Take them food shopping
- Give them some sort of vouchers that could only be used in supermarkets
- Take them out for a meal or 2
- Letting them come live with me so they can save money on rent. They live in another city (around 70 miles away from me), while I live in London
- Do nothing and let them figure it out on their own
Some of these options would make me feel worse (if situations were reversed) and I'm not trying to make them feel bad, or for them to feel as though I'm treating them as charity cases.
I have a stable job and a steady income, and 6months+ savings, so I wouldn't be putting myself in any danger giving them something. I do live in a small 1 bedroom flat though, which will be very cramped with 3.5 people living in it. I'm prepared to put up with it for a few months though.
My friends are both originally from outside the UK (Belgium + Australia) and have no family here in the UK. They will most likely leave the country by the end of the year if things haven't improved for them and return to one of their families. Job opportunities in their home countries are far fewer than here, so they are reluctant to leave.
Have any of you been in similar situations and thought: "I wish someone would do x"? Please let me know. Or anything else you think I could (or should) do to help them out.
Two friends of mine, a married couple with a 15 month old son, are having some fairly severe financial difficulties. Both lost their jobs a few months ago and both are unable to find new jobs.
They're currently struggling to pay any bills or even rent. They've applied for crisis loans and are trying to claim unemployment benefits but seem to be having problems doing so. From the sounds of it, they're not quite at the stage of not being able to feed their son, but they will be there in another week or so.
Some further background: about a year ago, when the husband was in work but they were still in some difficulties, I lent them some money to help them with wedding expenses (around £600). I lent the money with the full expectation of not seeing it again and I realise that will most likely be the case.
I'm going out to see them in the next few days and was wondering what (if anything) I could do to help them out. I'm not too keen on giving them more money, as it may just be swallowed up by creditors and they may see very little of it (although it may buy them a few weeks/months respite). I'd prefer something that I knew went to them and their little baby.
A couple of things I've thought of are:
- Take them food shopping
- Give them some sort of vouchers that could only be used in supermarkets
- Take them out for a meal or 2
- Letting them come live with me so they can save money on rent. They live in another city (around 70 miles away from me), while I live in London
- Do nothing and let them figure it out on their own
Some of these options would make me feel worse (if situations were reversed) and I'm not trying to make them feel bad, or for them to feel as though I'm treating them as charity cases.
I have a stable job and a steady income, and 6months+ savings, so I wouldn't be putting myself in any danger giving them something. I do live in a small 1 bedroom flat though, which will be very cramped with 3.5 people living in it. I'm prepared to put up with it for a few months though.
My friends are both originally from outside the UK (Belgium + Australia) and have no family here in the UK. They will most likely leave the country by the end of the year if things haven't improved for them and return to one of their families. Job opportunities in their home countries are far fewer than here, so they are reluctant to leave.
Have any of you been in similar situations and thought: "I wish someone would do x"? Please let me know. Or anything else you think I could (or should) do to help them out.
Best answer: Do not let them come live with you. Do not lend them more cash. Just don't. It won't be good for anyone. Don't take them out for dinner, either--that seems like a drop in a very big bucket, and it's not fun going out with a 15-mo-old anyway.
1. If you are a native to UK and they are not, offer to help them navigate social services. You can sit with them and the paperwork or the computer, and help them figure it out.
2. Offer to babysit while they meet with a financial counselor.
3. Say you are going to come over to cook them dinner. Bring about 4x as much food as you will need for that dinner. Say "whoops, I guess I got a lot more than I needed to. I'll never eat this stuff and I don't want to carry it home. You guys keep it."
4. Bring a list of local food pantries. Explain how if you were in their situation, you would use services available--try to help them mitigate the shame factor if you can and if you are close enough with them.
posted by tk at 8:15 AM on September 25, 2009 [5 favorites]
1. If you are a native to UK and they are not, offer to help them navigate social services. You can sit with them and the paperwork or the computer, and help them figure it out.
2. Offer to babysit while they meet with a financial counselor.
3. Say you are going to come over to cook them dinner. Bring about 4x as much food as you will need for that dinner. Say "whoops, I guess I got a lot more than I needed to. I'll never eat this stuff and I don't want to carry it home. You guys keep it."
4. Bring a list of local food pantries. Explain how if you were in their situation, you would use services available--try to help them mitigate the shame factor if you can and if you are close enough with them.
posted by tk at 8:15 AM on September 25, 2009 [5 favorites]
Do nothing. Treat them like responsible human beings.
This is not the answer you many want to hear, and no doubt people will be upset.
I could give you reasoning, but its not so simple to explain. I know this is the best answer because of a lifetime of experience with such matters. When you take away another person's responsibility for their own well being, you take away some of their power. Powerless people fail.
Let them walk on their own two feet: they may fall, but they will get up and learn to walk on thier own. If you carry them, they will never learn to walk.
posted by Osmanthus at 8:20 AM on September 25, 2009 [3 favorites]
This is not the answer you many want to hear, and no doubt people will be upset.
I could give you reasoning, but its not so simple to explain. I know this is the best answer because of a lifetime of experience with such matters. When you take away another person's responsibility for their own well being, you take away some of their power. Powerless people fail.
Let them walk on their own two feet: they may fall, but they will get up and learn to walk on thier own. If you carry them, they will never learn to walk.
posted by Osmanthus at 8:20 AM on September 25, 2009 [3 favorites]
My friends and I are very close to each other, and we've definitely housed each other when money gets tight - my best friends, in particular, have twice let a friend stay with them for 1-3 months. Two pieces of advice there: Make sure this is something you wouldn't come to resent your friends for, and make sure you work out, in advance, how long they'll be staying (because there's nothing worse than being torn between kicking a friend out on the street and losing your own sanity).
If you're going the route of giving them money/food/vouchers, if possible I would suggest focusing on their kid. Maybe give them some money and say, "This is for my favorite little boy!" or take him out on a clothes/food/toy-shopping trip. Raising a child is a huge expense, and no doubt a large part of your friends' financial struggle. Making it about the kid might make it feel less awkward for them, and they might be more comfortable accepting your generosity.
posted by shaun uh at 8:22 AM on September 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you're going the route of giving them money/food/vouchers, if possible I would suggest focusing on their kid. Maybe give them some money and say, "This is for my favorite little boy!" or take him out on a clothes/food/toy-shopping trip. Raising a child is a huge expense, and no doubt a large part of your friends' financial struggle. Making it about the kid might make it feel less awkward for them, and they might be more comfortable accepting your generosity.
posted by shaun uh at 8:22 AM on September 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
I suspect they would be more open to accepting help for their son than for themselves. (Although if they're soon going to be homeless, that might be the more urgent need here.)
Diapers are crazy expensive. Buying them diapers (presuming they're using disposables) would be a big help from a "personal care" standpoint, and is often something you can't get at food pantries. In the US you can order them via Amazon and have them shipped, don't know if amazon UK offers the same service. Disposable diapers are typically sized by the child's weight, not age.
I like tk's idea #3 very much. If you do this, be sure to bring a ton of milk (baby again).
One thing I did for friends who were going to be temporarily homeless was to allow them to store a few boxes of items in my home. It was easy for me to do, and made it easier for them to live lightly without worrying that things like family photos and infant keepsakes would be lost forever. Losing your home is hard, but part of the emotional toll is that often you feel like you're losing your history along with your home.
posted by anastasiav at 8:27 AM on September 25, 2009 [3 favorites]
Diapers are crazy expensive. Buying them diapers (presuming they're using disposables) would be a big help from a "personal care" standpoint, and is often something you can't get at food pantries. In the US you can order them via Amazon and have them shipped, don't know if amazon UK offers the same service. Disposable diapers are typically sized by the child's weight, not age.
I like tk's idea #3 very much. If you do this, be sure to bring a ton of milk (baby again).
One thing I did for friends who were going to be temporarily homeless was to allow them to store a few boxes of items in my home. It was easy for me to do, and made it easier for them to live lightly without worrying that things like family photos and infant keepsakes would be lost forever. Losing your home is hard, but part of the emotional toll is that often you feel like you're losing your history along with your home.
posted by anastasiav at 8:27 AM on September 25, 2009 [3 favorites]
Offer to be their son's 'fairy godfather'. Set up an account somewhere for their kid and pay a monthly amount into it, on the understanding that it's there to help with expenses relating to their kid (clothes, toys, books, food, stroller, whatever).
You don't want the four of you in a one-bedroom flat; that would be crazy. With loans or gifts of money, consider your friends' natures. Are they the sort of people who will do whatever they can to get back on their feet and discharge all debts as a matter of principle? Or will they just take any money you offer and never make more than a token effort to pay you back? In the first case, do whatever it takes to help them; in the latter, listen to Osmanthus. The fact that they seemed so relaxed about your previous loan suggests that further loans may not be helpful.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 8:30 AM on September 25, 2009
You don't want the four of you in a one-bedroom flat; that would be crazy. With loans or gifts of money, consider your friends' natures. Are they the sort of people who will do whatever they can to get back on their feet and discharge all debts as a matter of principle? Or will they just take any money you offer and never make more than a token effort to pay you back? In the first case, do whatever it takes to help them; in the latter, listen to Osmanthus. The fact that they seemed so relaxed about your previous loan suggests that further loans may not be helpful.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 8:30 AM on September 25, 2009
I would not do anything directly for them. Meaning do not buy them food, give them money, give them a place to live. I know you want to do the right thing but nothing good will come from it. You will end up being an ATM or a meal ticket. You might also humiliate them or insult them. Lastly they might become dependent on your assistants for a VERY long time.
A good analogy would be a person is drowning. You never jump in after them. You throw them a lifeline. Your lifeline to them could be support through your knowledge of the system. You know the way things work "across the pond" (sorry not to make light of the situation or anything but I always wanted to say that but never had the opportunity until now). I would help look for jobs, apply for government benefits, etc. I'm sure that your government has resources for people in need and will not stand ideally by as a young couple with a baby starves.
I'm glad they have a friend like you. You are a good person for your concern.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:35 AM on September 25, 2009
A good analogy would be a person is drowning. You never jump in after them. You throw them a lifeline. Your lifeline to them could be support through your knowledge of the system. You know the way things work "across the pond" (sorry not to make light of the situation or anything but I always wanted to say that but never had the opportunity until now). I would help look for jobs, apply for government benefits, etc. I'm sure that your government has resources for people in need and will not stand ideally by as a young couple with a baby starves.
I'm glad they have a friend like you. You are a good person for your concern.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:35 AM on September 25, 2009
My instinct would be to take them out for dinner and pick up the check. Another suggestion I've heard is to host your friends for dinner at your house once a week: not as a charity thing, but because people have each other over their houses and serve them a meal, because that's what hospitable people do with their friends.
But helping your friends navigate the social services bureaucracy and/or babysitting their child/children while they're out doing so is probably the best suggestion.
Also, I've noticed that the funny thing about people with conservative or libertarian leanings is that they oppose government programs to help people get on their feet because they think that charity and help from neighbors can fill in the gap. But when pressed, it turns out that they don't believe that charity is a good idea, either.
posted by deanc at 8:57 AM on September 25, 2009 [3 favorites]
But helping your friends navigate the social services bureaucracy and/or babysitting their child/children while they're out doing so is probably the best suggestion.
Also, I've noticed that the funny thing about people with conservative or libertarian leanings is that they oppose government programs to help people get on their feet because they think that charity and help from neighbors can fill in the gap. But when pressed, it turns out that they don't believe that charity is a good idea, either.
posted by deanc at 8:57 AM on September 25, 2009 [3 favorites]
"Let them walk on their own two feet: they may fall, but they will get up and learn to walk on thier own. If you carry them, they will never learn to walk".
That there is probably the saddest thing I have read this week.
I suppose I could leave it at that but I don't want to fall foul of the 'no wisecracking' guideline.
Look, these folks have a child. They are far from home, lonely. unemployed, they aren't broke through stupidity (at least, not their stupidity) or recklessness (at least not their recklessness). If you're not willing to help them then who are you willing to help? Under what circumstances would you accept assistance.
There is more than just family, there is such a thing as society and helping one another is a large part of our better nature.
At the risk of snark Osmanthus I wouldn't take Nietzsche, Heinlein or Ayn Rand or wherever you get your ideas on charity too seriously. That kind of morally corrosive crap isn't taken seriously any more.
posted by fingerbang at 9:11 AM on September 25, 2009 [12 favorites]
That there is probably the saddest thing I have read this week.
I suppose I could leave it at that but I don't want to fall foul of the 'no wisecracking' guideline.
Look, these folks have a child. They are far from home, lonely. unemployed, they aren't broke through stupidity (at least, not their stupidity) or recklessness (at least not their recklessness). If you're not willing to help them then who are you willing to help? Under what circumstances would you accept assistance.
There is more than just family, there is such a thing as society and helping one another is a large part of our better nature.
At the risk of snark Osmanthus I wouldn't take Nietzsche, Heinlein or Ayn Rand or wherever you get your ideas on charity too seriously. That kind of morally corrosive crap isn't taken seriously any more.
posted by fingerbang at 9:11 AM on September 25, 2009 [12 favorites]
You said you are going to see them, and whether that means actually staying with them or not, you can bring them gifts for hosting you. Normally that would be like wine and flowers, but in this situation I'd make it a few more practical things like diapers (if you know what they use, if not you can find out), dinner out at least once and some staples. That will help them feel like it's not charity.
If you haven't yet, I'd be clear with them that your original loan to them is forgiven. It can be stressful when you owe a friend AND a bank money. See, you want to pay the friend back but the bank will penalize you monetarily, while the friend may only penalize you socially. It may be a big load off their minds to know you aren't waiting on the money. Tell them it's a baby/wedding gift if you have to.
Also I think the offer to store stuff is a very good idea. Were I to be facing homelessness or a long bout of couch surfing, my main concern after kids and pets would be my valuables and photo albums.
When you spend time with them, try to do things that don't cost money. Some people feel guilty when they have a guest and feel like they have to do whatever the guest wants, even if it means blowing their budget.
posted by soelo at 9:12 AM on September 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you haven't yet, I'd be clear with them that your original loan to them is forgiven. It can be stressful when you owe a friend AND a bank money. See, you want to pay the friend back but the bank will penalize you monetarily, while the friend may only penalize you socially. It may be a big load off their minds to know you aren't waiting on the money. Tell them it's a baby/wedding gift if you have to.
Also I think the offer to store stuff is a very good idea. Were I to be facing homelessness or a long bout of couch surfing, my main concern after kids and pets would be my valuables and photo albums.
When you spend time with them, try to do things that don't cost money. Some people feel guilty when they have a guest and feel like they have to do whatever the guest wants, even if it means blowing their budget.
posted by soelo at 9:12 AM on September 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
I would give a $200 or so Safeway or Walgreens gift card (don't know if you have those), and put in a "thinking of you" card, and give over a meal or some other relaxing-as-possible-for-them time.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 9:20 AM on September 25, 2009
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 9:20 AM on September 25, 2009
You are overanalyzing the situation, and in effect, acting in an extremely impersonal and patronizing fashion. You are not their social worker, their moral compass, or their parents; you are a friend.
If these folks are your friends help them the fuck out. Ask them what they need, and if you can afford it and feel okay about it, do it. Send them a check. Let them stay with you, whatever. If you don't feel like you can provide what they want ($10,000, or 2 months couch surfing) don't give it to them. Honor them as friends in a tough spot you are trying to help out.
Just simplify, and act human.
posted by RajahKing at 9:23 AM on September 25, 2009 [3 favorites]
If these folks are your friends help them the fuck out. Ask them what they need, and if you can afford it and feel okay about it, do it. Send them a check. Let them stay with you, whatever. If you don't feel like you can provide what they want ($10,000, or 2 months couch surfing) don't give it to them. Honor them as friends in a tough spot you are trying to help out.
Just simplify, and act human.
posted by RajahKing at 9:23 AM on September 25, 2009 [3 favorites]
I don't know what would be the best/most acceptable offer of help for this couple and their kid.
Can you ask around your friends/coworkers to see if there are any job openings for either of them?
posted by sciencegeek at 9:28 AM on September 25, 2009
Can you ask around your friends/coworkers to see if there are any job openings for either of them?
posted by sciencegeek at 9:28 AM on September 25, 2009
Can you ask around your friends/coworkers to see if there are any job openings for either of them?
Yeah, actually this is the best answer here. Even a temp job is better than no job.
posted by anastasiav at 9:35 AM on September 25, 2009
Yeah, actually this is the best answer here. Even a temp job is better than no job.
posted by anastasiav at 9:35 AM on September 25, 2009
not so sure about taking them out to dinner, but only because when i've been flat broke, i think of how many meals i could make & how many weeks i could eat for the same amount of money.
i've done things like get a grocery store gift card, pay their phone bill, or something that will help with the necessities. i've done it covertly and i've also just shoved money at people & shrugged off their protests. i make it clear that it's a gift, that i expect no repayment, and that i've been in similar situations and it sucks. i let them know that if there's anything they specifically need, they should let me know & i'll do my best to provide it or help them in any way i can.
i'm not by any stretch of the imagination rich or well to do. i can, however, pay my bills & still have what is so quaintly referred to as 'a disposable income.' i choose to dispose it to help people when i can. i hardly find that condescending to them or to me. we all need a little help sometimes in our life.
posted by msconduct at 9:53 AM on September 25, 2009
i've done things like get a grocery store gift card, pay their phone bill, or something that will help with the necessities. i've done it covertly and i've also just shoved money at people & shrugged off their protests. i make it clear that it's a gift, that i expect no repayment, and that i've been in similar situations and it sucks. i let them know that if there's anything they specifically need, they should let me know & i'll do my best to provide it or help them in any way i can.
i'm not by any stretch of the imagination rich or well to do. i can, however, pay my bills & still have what is so quaintly referred to as 'a disposable income.' i choose to dispose it to help people when i can. i hardly find that condescending to them or to me. we all need a little help sometimes in our life.
posted by msconduct at 9:53 AM on September 25, 2009
A friend of mine said someone stayed at her house just for a visit, and while there, went to a farmers market, cooked dinner, and froze cans and cans of leftovers. I think it was easier for her because it was framed as a finger-waggling "I know you don't eat enough real food!" so it felt like love and teasing instead of "now I am giving you money."
posted by salvia at 9:59 AM on September 25, 2009
posted by salvia at 9:59 AM on September 25, 2009
Best answer: Since people who say that giving people material help never works usually cite "life experience," I'll jump in and say that I have personal experience to the contrary. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it's exactly what's needed.
My own example involved a friend with Type I diabetes and a busted foot who was out of work and not getting needed medical care. He needed both help getting his diabetes controlled (money for insulin, test strips, etc) and emotional support in finding other resources and moving ahead with his life. I was not stuck paying for his shit for the rest of his life, and in fact he is not only healthy and employed, he's now paying my rent while I go back to school.
On the other hand, there is absolutely the potential for some people to take advantage of you, more or less deliberately, or to simply use your help as a crutch that may delay the inevitable but does not contribute to forward progress. The best way to avoid this is to help the right people. The second best way to avoid this is to give in a way that creates genuine gratitude and a sense of obligation (not a bad thing when obligation actually exists), and to give personal, emotional and intellectual resources as well as material ones.
From your question, it seems to me you're very serious about helping, not just making a gesture. Unless you judge that your help can only have a very limited effect (because they are not the right people), I would not recommend acting anonymously. I would suggest that you ask, as kindly and sensitively as possible and in a very serious tone, what kind of help your friends would be comfortable accepting from you, giving as examples some of the suggestions from this thread, including: Buying groceries, helping them find resources like food pantries, helping them navigate social services, etc. Moving in with you doesn't seem like an option unless the situation becomes truly desperate, and then only in the very short term. To lead in, say something like, "It really bothers me to see you struggling so much. You're my friends, and I know you would want to help me if the situation were reversed."
Once you have agreed on a plan, it's important to continue to show concern and be a friend. You don't necessarily need to put a limit on the duration of your help (understandable, but suggests distrust), but you need to be clear that this help is intended to facilitate their getting out of this situation-- always look forward to a time when your assistance will no longer be necessary. Be alert for signs that you are not on the same page here. It's ok to be honest about any fear you may have of things not working out, but avoid obvious guilt-tripping or anything that could be construed as an insult.
In general, your friends will be much better able to judge how you can help, and what forms of help will be welcome, than the internet. Your prior history suggests that they would not be offended by an offer. Certainly you want to be careful, but you're coming from a position of strength here, and the worst that happens is you're out a little money and you get your feelings hurt.
You sound like a very warm-hearted, generous person. Good luck!
posted by molybdenumblue at 10:01 AM on September 25, 2009 [2 favorites]
My own example involved a friend with Type I diabetes and a busted foot who was out of work and not getting needed medical care. He needed both help getting his diabetes controlled (money for insulin, test strips, etc) and emotional support in finding other resources and moving ahead with his life. I was not stuck paying for his shit for the rest of his life, and in fact he is not only healthy and employed, he's now paying my rent while I go back to school.
On the other hand, there is absolutely the potential for some people to take advantage of you, more or less deliberately, or to simply use your help as a crutch that may delay the inevitable but does not contribute to forward progress. The best way to avoid this is to help the right people. The second best way to avoid this is to give in a way that creates genuine gratitude and a sense of obligation (not a bad thing when obligation actually exists), and to give personal, emotional and intellectual resources as well as material ones.
From your question, it seems to me you're very serious about helping, not just making a gesture. Unless you judge that your help can only have a very limited effect (because they are not the right people), I would not recommend acting anonymously. I would suggest that you ask, as kindly and sensitively as possible and in a very serious tone, what kind of help your friends would be comfortable accepting from you, giving as examples some of the suggestions from this thread, including: Buying groceries, helping them find resources like food pantries, helping them navigate social services, etc. Moving in with you doesn't seem like an option unless the situation becomes truly desperate, and then only in the very short term. To lead in, say something like, "It really bothers me to see you struggling so much. You're my friends, and I know you would want to help me if the situation were reversed."
Once you have agreed on a plan, it's important to continue to show concern and be a friend. You don't necessarily need to put a limit on the duration of your help (understandable, but suggests distrust), but you need to be clear that this help is intended to facilitate their getting out of this situation-- always look forward to a time when your assistance will no longer be necessary. Be alert for signs that you are not on the same page here. It's ok to be honest about any fear you may have of things not working out, but avoid obvious guilt-tripping or anything that could be construed as an insult.
In general, your friends will be much better able to judge how you can help, and what forms of help will be welcome, than the internet. Your prior history suggests that they would not be offended by an offer. Certainly you want to be careful, but you're coming from a position of strength here, and the worst that happens is you're out a little money and you get your feelings hurt.
You sound like a very warm-hearted, generous person. Good luck!
posted by molybdenumblue at 10:01 AM on September 25, 2009 [2 favorites]
Seriously? They're friends and they're hurting. Give what you can. If you'll resent them not paying you back in some way, then you cannot afford to give. They may protest, but they don't really mean it. I've just been loaned money for a cheap car, and it was the hugest relief for me. Pay their rent for a month. Even better, let them live with you for a few months if you can stand it. Set rules/time limits so there are clear boundaries, but do it if you can.
posted by runningwithscissors at 10:14 AM on September 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by runningwithscissors at 10:14 AM on September 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
Have you considered joining CostCo? It's very easy to buy more than what one person can possibly use, so you can give your friends the "extra." Also, since membership is required you could ask on a semi regular basis what you can pick up for them.
P.S. the value toilet paper is not overrated, and CostCo carries large packages of them.
posted by oceano at 10:26 AM on September 25, 2009
P.S. the value toilet paper is not overrated, and CostCo carries large packages of them.
posted by oceano at 10:26 AM on September 25, 2009
It's one thing when you're helping one friend, but it's a whole other thing if you're helping two adults. There are charitable places that can help them.
And especially don't help them if they haven't directly asked you for it.
posted by anniecat at 10:27 AM on September 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
And especially don't help them if they haven't directly asked you for it.
posted by anniecat at 10:27 AM on September 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
You are overanalyzing the situation, and in effect, acting in an extremely impersonal and patronizing fashion. You are not their social worker, their moral compass, or their parents; you are a friend.
If these folks are your friends help them the fuck out. Ask them what they need, and if you can afford it and feel okay about it, do it. Send them a check. Let them stay with you, whatever. If you don't feel like you can provide what they want ($10,000, or 2 months couch surfing) don't give it to them. Honor them as friends in a tough spot you are trying to help out.
Just simplify, and act human.
Replying to add: This is also a good answer in many cases, but parents and social workers act they way they do for a reason, and I don't think you're a patronizing dick for thinking things through.
posted by molybdenumblue at 10:30 AM on September 25, 2009
If these folks are your friends help them the fuck out. Ask them what they need, and if you can afford it and feel okay about it, do it. Send them a check. Let them stay with you, whatever. If you don't feel like you can provide what they want ($10,000, or 2 months couch surfing) don't give it to them. Honor them as friends in a tough spot you are trying to help out.
Just simplify, and act human.
Replying to add: This is also a good answer in many cases, but parents and social workers act they way they do for a reason, and I don't think you're a patronizing dick for thinking things through.
posted by molybdenumblue at 10:30 AM on September 25, 2009
Since you live so far away from them, I think the practical thing to do is give them gift cards/gift certificates to a large chain of grocery stores or someplace that sells a wide variety of essential goods. Since you're visiting them, you can present it as a hostess gift/thank you which might minimize any discomfort you're afraid they may feel.
Also, with a 15 month old and a tight budget, I would imagine they haven't had a chance to spend some time out just the two of them. Would you be up for offering your babysitting services, and giving them gift certificate to a restaurant? While this isn't as practical as groceries or rent money, I think it's just as important to connect with your partner and take a break from the day to day of a difficult period in your life. It gives you a boost, so you can find the hope and the energy to tackle what lies ahead, and if it's a gift, it takes away the guilt of not spending the time or money on practical things. You're a good friend, and I hope their luck turns around soon.
posted by katemcd at 10:46 AM on September 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also, with a 15 month old and a tight budget, I would imagine they haven't had a chance to spend some time out just the two of them. Would you be up for offering your babysitting services, and giving them gift certificate to a restaurant? While this isn't as practical as groceries or rent money, I think it's just as important to connect with your partner and take a break from the day to day of a difficult period in your life. It gives you a boost, so you can find the hope and the energy to tackle what lies ahead, and if it's a gift, it takes away the guilt of not spending the time or money on practical things. You're a good friend, and I hope their luck turns around soon.
posted by katemcd at 10:46 AM on September 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
Definitely keep your eyes and ears out for any work that they could apply for, whether casual or not.
If they live in a large enough community, offer to pay application fees for any employment-finding service, financial counselling (off the top of my head), any sort of service that would help them out of this situation. I think that is the sort of thing that someone would feel more OK about accepting money for.
Do not invite them to live with you.
posted by variella at 10:50 AM on September 25, 2009
If they live in a large enough community, offer to pay application fees for any employment-finding service, financial counselling (off the top of my head), any sort of service that would help them out of this situation. I think that is the sort of thing that someone would feel more OK about accepting money for.
Do not invite them to live with you.
posted by variella at 10:50 AM on September 25, 2009
kathrineg: Don't listen to this heartless advice.
Listen or don't listen as you see fit. I've already advised giving them financial assistance to help with their child.
I have friends to whom I'd give every penny I own without hesitation. But I have other friends who are financial disaster areas - as friends I have nothing but love for them, but I'd think long and hard before giving them a loan or a gift of money, because I see the kinds of bad choices they make with what money they have.
I'm not suggesting that your friends fall into this latter category, but I am suggesting that some people do.
It's quite likely they're in a situation not of their own making. But since I (and others here) don't know your friends, some of us are suggesting that you think things through so that your efforts to help them are as effective as they can be. Buying them food, helping with 'child expenses', helping them find work, those things may well be more appropriate to their needs and bailing them out directly.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 10:51 AM on September 25, 2009
Listen or don't listen as you see fit. I've already advised giving them financial assistance to help with their child.
I have friends to whom I'd give every penny I own without hesitation. But I have other friends who are financial disaster areas - as friends I have nothing but love for them, but I'd think long and hard before giving them a loan or a gift of money, because I see the kinds of bad choices they make with what money they have.
I'm not suggesting that your friends fall into this latter category, but I am suggesting that some people do.
It's quite likely they're in a situation not of their own making. But since I (and others here) don't know your friends, some of us are suggesting that you think things through so that your efforts to help them are as effective as they can be. Buying them food, helping with 'child expenses', helping them find work, those things may well be more appropriate to their needs and bailing them out directly.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 10:51 AM on September 25, 2009
than, not and
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 10:53 AM on September 25, 2009
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 10:53 AM on September 25, 2009
What salvia said. I've done this with friends I knew were hurting - they invited me to stay for the weekend; I showed up with $200 worth of groceries: "Hey look I brought food so we won't have to go out and I'll cook!" Then when you leave, you're leaving a week's worth of food.
posted by mygothlaundry at 11:23 AM on September 25, 2009
posted by mygothlaundry at 11:23 AM on September 25, 2009
Best answer: Talk to friends and family and see if anyone knows of *any* work. Ask the couple if they have any skills that can be used to generate cash: car repair, painting, etc.
Assist them, as needed , with identifying and applying for institutional help from the government, churches, etc.
Listen to them. It's depressing and frustrating to be broke with a baby and no other family nearby.
Ask them how you can help and respect their answer. That doesn't mean you have to give whatever is asked, but maybe they really need a day off, or transportation to go apply for aid, or whatever. And send a gift card for the food market nearest to them, with an encouraging card.
posted by theora55 at 12:10 PM on September 25, 2009
Assist them, as needed , with identifying and applying for institutional help from the government, churches, etc.
Listen to them. It's depressing and frustrating to be broke with a baby and no other family nearby.
Ask them how you can help and respect their answer. That doesn't mean you have to give whatever is asked, but maybe they really need a day off, or transportation to go apply for aid, or whatever. And send a gift card for the food market nearest to them, with an encouraging card.
posted by theora55 at 12:10 PM on September 25, 2009
When my brother in law needed his medication adjusted and was unemployed and broke and had no insurance (yay America) we handed him an envelope of cash to get to the doctor and pharmacy. His creditors were unlikely to get a judgment against an envelope of cash. I don't know how collection practices against debtors go in the UK, but he was well aware that they could get in line or try to sue him while bankrupt.
He went to the doctor, got less depressed, got a job, and is back on his feet now. Sometimes what is in the grand scheme a minute amount of money makes a huge difference.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 12:12 PM on September 25, 2009
He went to the doctor, got less depressed, got a job, and is back on his feet now. Sometimes what is in the grand scheme a minute amount of money makes a huge difference.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 12:12 PM on September 25, 2009
Ask them how you can help and respect their answer.
theora55
Yes that.
posted by soelo at 12:17 PM on September 25, 2009
theora55
Yes that.
posted by soelo at 12:17 PM on September 25, 2009
Check out Giving Anonymously - seems like a solid service
posted by jourman2 at 12:25 PM on September 25, 2009
posted by jourman2 at 12:25 PM on September 25, 2009
It's up to you to decide how much of your money, time, and personal space you can afford to give up to help them without hurting yourself. Don't risk your own financial stability or physical/emotional health trying to help people or you'll end up needing help yourself, and that's counterproductive.
Whatever you decide you can afford, I suggest that you prioritize keeping them stably housed. Homelessness (or transience, if they can find places to stay but have to keep moving along frequently) begets a whole slew of new problems that can quickly become insurmountable.
posted by Jacqueline at 12:58 AM on September 26, 2009
Whatever you decide you can afford, I suggest that you prioritize keeping them stably housed. Homelessness (or transience, if they can find places to stay but have to keep moving along frequently) begets a whole slew of new problems that can quickly become insurmountable.
posted by Jacqueline at 12:58 AM on September 26, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by jefficator at 8:10 AM on September 25, 2009