Should I confront my roommates?

September 24, 2009 6:17 AM

My roommates are driving me nuts; should I talk to them about it, more than I already have?

I don't need this to be entirely anonymous, I just don't want it to be linked to my username. This is a bit long, bear with me please?

Some background info:
I live with my boyfriend and his brother A, A's girlfriend B and their recently-moved-in friend, T. We all have separate rooms but share the kitchen and living areas. I'm quite a private and territorial person and frankly, unsuited to communal living - especially with these particular roommates.

I'm starting to resent A and B for their untidiness. I do almost all the household chores as my boyfriend works a lot and everyone else is simply disinterested. They track mud into the house, leave food crumbs everywhere, over-fill the trash with bulky takeout containers and leave recycling (mountains of beer bottles) in the kitchen for weeks. B sometimes has girly beauty sessions in the living room and leaves bits of hair and makeup (staining) on the floor. If I want the house to be clean, it's up to me to vacuum and wash the floor, compress and divide their trash (yuck), wash and take out the recycling and basically pick up after them. My boyfriend and I buy all the cleaning supplies and basically do all the cleaning. They are hardly home/awake at the same time as us so we barely get to talk.

Apart from freaking out my inner neat freak, they also have no qualms about infringing on our space. When their toilet clogs, they'll use ours for weeks while waiting for the clog to "fix itself". They eat our food and take our possessions, from toilet paper to digital cameras, and never bother to replace or return them. Even when I ask for them back.

I think I care more than most about personal boundaries and living with A and B is really stressful for me. My boyfriend is reluctant to move (he has his reasons), but has said that if I talk to our roommates about every issue that bugs me for the next two months, and they still don't change, then we can move.

Is this a really bad idea? I think that it might destroy my relationship with A and B. We're pretty friendly when I'm not seething about the last chore I had to do for them. I try not to talk to them too much about this stuff, basically I ask once or twice and then leave it. My boyfriend thinks that doing this will help me get better at conflict resolution, which I'm not too good at. If I do this, how should I approach it?

All I've done thus far is ask them nicely once or twice not to do certain things. We've had one or two roommate meetings and while some of their worst behaviours have changed (stuff not mentioned above), most things have stayed the same.

Caveats: Remaining on good terms with A and B is pretty important to me. Also, I don't think messiness in itself is bad, I just don't want to live with it, in my own life.

posted by anonymous to human relations (41 comments total)

Since you are working as a de facto maid for the rest of your housemates, perhaps you should ask for payment or a reduction of your rent. Choose an hourly rate based on how much it would cost to hire someone to come in and clean and then see how many hours you're putting in to cleaning the house a week.
posted by sciencegeek at 6:24 AM on September 24 [1 favorite has favorites]

I'm quite a private and territorial person and frankly, unsuited to communal living

This is the rub. Any roommate situation is going to require some give and take on both sides, and it's just not going to be possible for everyone to have absolutely everything the way they want it, if they want different things. This is especially true wrt levels of cleanliness. You need to find a middle ground, rather than trying to get them to clean to your standards.

But more importantly, given your admitted unsuitability for communal living, you need to find your own place, or one to share with your boyfriend. Make a decision as to which is more important: "his reasons" (whatever they may be), or your sanity.
posted by modernnomad at 6:32 AM on September 24 [1 favorite has favorites]

How averse would you be to moving out on your own? I realize that you probably want to live with your boyfriend, but he does not want to live elsewhere, and being in the same household with A and B is clearly having an effect on your quality of life. I foresee this affecting not only your relationship with the two of them, but also your relationship with your boyfriend, because eventually you may become resentful that he's not doing anything to help the situation.
posted by scarykarrey at 6:32 AM on September 24

a) I talk to our roommates about every issue that bugs me for the next two months, and they still don't change, then we can move.

Bringing up every single issue is the best way to piss everyone off. Choose your battles.

b) WRT (a) be especially lenient on rules about the common space, as they have a right to set guidelines there, too. Unsafe or security-deposit-threatening activities should be your focus along with minimal cleanliness rules.

c) set absolute boundaries about your space (bathroom included). They should accept this without qualifiers and you should enforce it. If you explain yourself well, they should understand that the only way some people can cope with communal living is to have a sacrosanct place to put their stuff and feel safe. If you ease up trying to control the communal areas, they should respect this rule.
posted by parkerjackson at 6:35 AM on September 24

Oh...but no. You are not a maid, and there is no reason for you to be playing Mommy Maid to grown adults. If he won't move, your only choices are to suck it up and continue to let yourself be taken advantage of so that your house doesn't become a rat-filled cesspool, or MOVE.

I'd go with move. Boyfriend or no boyfriend, I wouldn't put up with this nonsense at all.
posted by dejah420 at 6:41 AM on September 24 [12 favorites has favorites]

You, and possibly your boyfriend, need to move out.

No one is right or wrong about this situation, there's just different standards about what's appropriate. Your roommates are probably not going to live up to yours and you will continue to be driven crazy by their behavior.

I'm like you, private and territorial and I did the roommate thing and it was hell. They were nice people, fun, but too damn messy and in order for me to remain sane and happy I had to move out and get my own place and never get roommates again.

Bottom line: you're not happy, but having to jump through all these hoops (bring up everything for two months? That's a signal that he really doesn't want to deal with what he sees as your problem) on the off chance that you might get happy. Fuck that. Get your own place and reclaim your peace of mind.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:41 AM on September 24 [9 favorites has favorites]

They eat our food and take our possessions, from toilet paper to digital cameras, and never bother to replace or return them. Even when I ask for them back. (Emphasis added)

If they're taking your digital camera and "never bother to replace or return" it, well, that's theft.

As far as I'm concerned, anyway.

Let the TP and the food go, but hammer on the camera, especially with the BF. He's willing to overlook that??

Assuming you are renting this place, and depending on where you live, your landlord could come in, take photos, and cite you (plural) for sanitation violations and serve a notice to quit.

Then nobody has a place to live.

Run that scenario by your roomies; it might help, it might not.
posted by jgirl at 6:51 AM on September 24

It's a dumb idea of your boyfriend's to think that you can deal with this situation that is not your fault as some sort of self-improving assertiveness training.

MOVE OUT. Start looking for places within walking distance so that you and your boyfriend can still see a lot of each other if he decides to stay. If you need a roommate, you will definitely be able to find one that has the same sensibilities that you do about cleanliness and private property. Tell your boyfriend that you would love for him to move with you, but that you will be moving out in (2 months, maybe?) regardless. He can't set conditions on when or how you can decide to move out. That's bullshit! Why doesn't HE call them on their bad habits? Why is it your job?

Sorry--I usually don't get worked up about this, but I think your roommates are probably sweet but clueless, and your boyfriend, who has the perfect situation (friends, girlfriend, no chores for himself to do) just wants you to accommodate his comfortable lifestyle.

Don't let him pressure you to stay somewhere that you are obviously uncomfortable. And don't wreck your relationship with A and B over this out of some misguided self-improvement project.
posted by tk at 6:52 AM on September 24 [4 favorites has favorites]

Your boyfriend has set up an impossible situation for you: bringing up every single problem for two months with a couple that includes HIS BROTHER, with the goal of remaining on good terms with both of them! Move.
posted by rhizome at 7:08 AM on September 24 [6 favorites has favorites]

My boyfriend is reluctant to move (he has his reasons), but has said that if I talk to our roommates about every issue that bugs me for the next two months, and they still don't change, then we can move.

Is this a really bad idea? I think that it might destroy my relationship with A and B.

Yes. Yes it is, and yes it very well might destroy your relationship with them.

Your boyfriend says if you do this, you can have that. What do you say? How about "You deal with your filthy brother or I move out and you can choose to come with me or not"?

It's not unreasonable to say that you've tried living with them and it stresses you out. It is unreasonable to expect you to be their mom, whether that means cleaning up after them or teaching them to respect their housemates.
posted by heatherann at 7:09 AM on September 24 [2 favorites has favorites]

I was also going to suggest "move out" so I'll just add, move out with as little fanfare and no drama. "Hey guys, I love you, but I'm obviously too picky about my living space, so I've got a new place up the block." And once you've moved out, don't be a fake roommate--someone who is in their space all the time, still cleaning it up, still stocking the fridge, still making an issue about your differences in living styles. Just be a good friend, bring beer when you come over, and be a good guest, go home when it's time to leave.

I don't know how old you are. Are you still in college? Are some of you in college, some of you working? Graduate school? In the US? Canada? I don't know anyone who, in the first few years after college, did not go through some version of this story. Fifteen years out, I've got friends with roommates who live in some private apartment version of a dorm, friends with roommate who live in pin-neat apartments and mostly friends who live alone or with their partners in whatever version of home they want. Just negotiate the process as nonjudgmentally as you can, meet your own needs--which clearly means moving out--and remaining welcoming of your friends as people, if not roommates.
posted by crush-onastick at 7:13 AM on September 24

your boyfriend wants YOU to tell HIS brother when the Brother is annoying you... um, I'd say no. Do not do this. He is being unreasonable.

I think you need to just have a 'housemeeting' and set soem ground rules abotu the possessions and respecting other peoples stuff. and mention the cleaning situation in general. If they don't change in a month.

Move out.
posted by mary8nne at 7:15 AM on September 24 [1 favorite has favorites]

In my experience with roommates, it is impossible to turn a messy person into a clean person. It's like trying to turn an introvert into an extrovert. Unfortunately, I think that it is likely that the only way you are going to get a living situation you can stand is to move out.
posted by dfan at 7:19 AM on September 24 [2 favorites has favorites]

Your boyfriend wants you to tell your roommate when things he does annoy you, which is fine; it's not fine that he's unwilling to stand with you and say that they annoy him too. You need to have a house meeting where both you AND your boyfriend say that you need to change some rules around (remember they will likely have new rules for you too), or you need to leave without your boyfriend who is unwilling to support you and who is making stupid, destined to fail rules for you.
posted by jeather at 7:22 AM on September 24 [1 favorite has favorites]

Family deals with family. You have a problem with your boyfriend's brother. Your boyfriend needs to run interference on your behalf. If he won't man up and do it, that would be a warning sign to me that your boyfriend has no balls, doesn't care about you having a smooth relationship with your family, or doesn't consider your desires worthwhile.

As for the roommate situation, these people obviously have standards totally incompatible with yours. Even if they "try" they will not notice things enough and it will never be a situation you'll be happy with. Try mary8nne's suggestion, but I'm betting you you'll end up moving out in a month anyway, so might as well make preparations to do so, so that it will be as painless as possible when it comes down to it. Make sure at the meeting that they understand you don't give a crap if their own rooms are messy as anything, just not to bring it into the common areas.

Someone mentioned "assertiveness training" - if that is some kind of motivating factor for your boyfriend encouraging you to confront his brother, then that's messed up. I'd consider if this is the case, and if he wants to somehow have you be his project or improve you into the person he wants. If so, also a bad sign.
posted by lorrer at 7:29 AM on September 24 [1 favorite has favorites]

He can't set conditions on when or how you can decide to move out. That's bullshit!

Seconded. Your boyfriend is being a jerk. It's not his place to "teach you not to avoid confrontation" or however he put it. Move out and continue seeing your boyfriend on your terms, but frankly I think you can do better than this patronizing sufferer of slobs.
posted by vincele at 7:35 AM on September 24 [6 favorites has favorites]

follow-up from the OP

Thanks to all for the answers, they've helped me gain some valuable perspective. Please keep them coming.

In light of the comments about the BF, I guess I should have provided more info there. He wants to stay here because the rent is cheap, and privacy isn't as valuable to him as it is to me. He's willing to move but on a tight budget. He does chores when asked, but I try not to ask too much because I want to spend time with him when he's home, not do chores together.

Also, he does mind the mess and feels bad that I have to clean up after them, and I often get him to have a quick word with A alone. A is obliging but forgetful, probably because he doesn't really care. He'll do something when asked but I worry about asking too much. They are, as tk put it, "sweet but clueless".

My boyfriend thinks that if we sit them down and talk to them regularly about their behaviour, they'll shape up and we can all live here happily together. I should have mentioned that he's said we'll talk to them together about things that bother me. I think about half of these would bother any reasonable person, and the other half is my own personal neurosis about boundaries.

Moving without my boyfriend is pretty much a last-ditch resort, and I'm sure we can work something out together. To me, the options are either move or try to change A and B, and I don't think I can feasibly change another adult's behaviour. I guess my BF sees things differently since A is his brother?"

posted by jessamyn at 7:50 AM on September 24

anonymous: I'm quite a private and territorial person and frankly, unsuited to communal living

From what you describe, this has nothing to do with any personality qualities on your side- your roommates are immature, irresponsible, insensitive jerks. "Communal living" does not mean "live like small children".

It also sounds like immaturity runs in the family, since your boyfriend's choosing his slovenly brother over you and making ridiculous demands of you to avoid confrontation. You sound miserable, so move out. If the boyfriend doesn't come with you, ditch him, too.
posted by mkultra at 7:59 AM on September 24 [2 favorites has favorites]

Since you are working as a de facto maid for the rest of your housemates, perhaps you should ask for payment or a reduction of your rent. Choose an hourly rate based on how much it would cost to hire someone to come in and clean and then see how many hours you're putting in to cleaning the house a week.

That presumes that the roommates want the house to be cleaned. Just because they don't clean up after themselves doesn't mean they'd hire a maid if the OP wasn't there to clean up after them.

I think you should move even if it means moving without your boyfriend. If you don't want to move and you want to preserve the relationship with your potential future in-laws, pick your battles:

The cleaning thing is a lost cause, its your choice to clean because you want it clean, except for staining the floor - if their mess is endangering your security deposit then you need to have words about that.

On the food thing, are we talking borrowing a few basics? (butter/milk/bread etc.) or are we talking real food - like the chicken fillets you were planning on having for dinner? If its the former then I think you need to let it go.

Toilet paper and using your toilet - let it go.

Taking your actual belongings is the one you should be really focusing on - they took your camera and are refusing to give it back?! Then you need to stop respecting boundaries and go through their stuff until you find it - as mentioned up-thread, that's theft. If you want to preserve your relationship with them then do it discretely but you need to get your stuff back.
posted by missmagenta at 8:00 AM on September 24

If you are planning to stay, how about that meeting contain some sort of commitment to a posted schedule of chores? Sounds a bit like kindergarten, but if that's what you are living with, then get them to agree to a weekly chart: A does the dishes on Tuesday, B vacuums the living room on Friday,etc. Don't make it completely anal or comprehensive, but pick the biggest things that bother you, decide how often they NEED to be done (allowing a bit of time for messiness to occur), and try that.
posted by CathyG at 8:01 AM on September 24

It's harder by far to establish the rules after you've all moved in, but even so, have a meeting, tell everyone that you have as much right to happiness as they do and you need things to be more fair. You may have to tolerate more messiness than you like, and they should keep things a little cleaner than they prefer. But this will require buy-in.

Messy activities must be done in their rooms. Get and use locks on your rooms and bathroom and do not allow them to use your space. BF needs to agree to this, but people taking and not returning your stuff is stealing and is not tolerable.

Food stealing is a pain. Offer to buy groceries for them if they pay you in advance. Put the electric bill and any other utilities in their names, and tell them that if you have to replace your food or supplies, it will come out of your share of the electric/cable/oil bill.

They're just young and thoughtless, so try really hard to separate the annoying behavior from them as people, and tell them clearly that you want to live with them, and enjoy their company, but need to be able to live in a way that works for you.
posted by theora55 at 8:05 AM on September 24

It can't just be you against A, B, and T. It should be you, your boyfriend, A, B, and T together in a conversation. It's not fair to A, B, and T for you to expect them to do their fair share of the chores but give your boyfriend a pass because "he works a lot." You're all roommates, you're all equally responsible for developing and adhering to a set of house rules. This doesn't need to be a confrontation along the lines of "You three do X, Y, and Z, and it really bothers me." Rather, it can be more of a house meeting in which you say "The five of us all seem to have different standards of cleanliness and privacy, and we're not on the same page about what is communal and what isn't: let's iron this out, please." Determine your main objectives (i.e., groceries will no longer be shared; bathrooms are to be shared in emergency situations only; each housemate does a particular chore or you all take turns doing chores weekly; etc.)

It sounds, though, as if this living situation is miserable for you. Your boyfriend shouldn't be ok with your being miserable. One possible solution would be for him to shoulder the confrontational burden here--he brings up the issues with your housemates, he leads the house meeting I described above, and he pays attention afterward to whether or not people are cooperating with the new rules/compromises/agreements that come out of that meeting. Alternatively, you (and he) could move out.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:07 AM on September 24

Couple ideas that came to me while I read this:

1 - These people are slobs. Plain and simple. They will never clean up after themselves because they do not care. They also do not have any respect for you or your privacy. If they did they would not take things without returning them.

2 - You are pretty much a live in maid there. Have they ever said " We really appreciate you cleaning the house, Thank you very much"? If not then your good deeds are going unnoticed.

3 - You mention A and B a lot but what does T add to situation? Is he just some couch dude that crashes there? Make his dead beat ass pay rent or else you will never get rid of him. If he pays rent then give him a room to sleep in. Trust me I had a friend sleeping on my couch for 3 weeks. I told him that if he was going to live here, he was going to float me some rent money and actually get his own personal room with a bed and everything. He didn't like the idea and left.

4 - Who's name is the house/place under? If it is under your name or your BF... A, B, and T need to either shape up or ship out! I don't care how good of friends you feel they are, they will cost you your deposit. And honestly if they were good friends they wouldn't be putting you in this position and using you as a maid.

5 - (Not worth the fight option) - Leave. Move out and get your own place. You can say I'm sorry but I need my own personal space or our I want a place of my own as an excuse. After 2-3 weeks of living in their own waste, your BF will come running to you. At this point tell him you can come but A, B, and T stay far away from my place.

Honestly I cannot stand people that can't clean up after themselves. I'm not a clean freak but dear God if the garbage needs changed I change it. If the dishes need done then I wash them... etc. If you can get out of this situation now then do it. Don't let the stress build up anymore.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:18 AM on September 24 [1 favorite has favorites]

These people are slobs. Plain and simple. They will never clean up after themselves because they do not care.

Agreed. However, someday, they might learn a little, because they will have faced legal consequences from a landlord or the municipality.
posted by jgirl at 8:26 AM on September 24

In an ideal situation, you'd live alone or with people who shared your preferences. That situation doesn't exist.

In a pretty good situation, you'd live with people who respected your preferences and were willing to compromise to accommodate your needs. That situation doesn't exist either.

In a tolerable short-term situation you'd stand up for yourself (and/or the BF would stand up for you) so that your needs were met at least most of the time, whether the roomies cared about you or not. These conditions don't exist either.

What's real for you is that you're living with people who don't share or care about your preferences, and neither you nor your boyfriend is willing to stand up for you. To make matters worse, you make requests and then do NOTHING when they are ignored, thereby regularly reinforcing the notion that you can be ignored without consequence.

In the grand scheme of things, you should learn to be more assertive. If somebody has a problem with that, it's their problem -- not yours. In this particular situation, the easiest thing to do is to move out.
posted by jon1270 at 8:28 AM on September 24 [1 favorite has favorites]

Okay, so reading your update, it's good that your boyfriend is on the same page-ish with you.

Look, I am not a clean person. I will keep the common areas neatish, and I keep the kitchen and bathroom clean, and I take out garbage, but that's it. I will forget to do other things because I do not care, and I won't thank you for doing them because (a) you're not doing them for me and (b) I do not care so I may not even notice it.

Making basic cleanliness standards is fine -- taking out the garbage, not leaving bits of hair on the ground, picking up stuff -- but you're just not going to convince roommates to live by your standard, because they have nothing invested in you. So you need to figure out where some lines can be drawn.

Taking your stuff: not negotiable. They need to stop doing it.
Using your bathroom: they have their own bathroom. They should be using it unless theirs is broken AND they have called in help to fix it but are waiting on the landlord/plumber.
Cleaning supplies and food: ask them how they want to work it out. Bear in mind that if you want to wash the kitchen floor twice a day and they want it washed once a week, there might be some complaining about equal splitting of supplies. You should keep your own bathroom cleaning supplies. You need to insist that they stop eating your food OR that you split certain staples but not others.
posted by jeather at 8:37 AM on September 24

You cannot make these people behave the way you want them to behave. There's no magic word, no court order, no drug, and while manipulation is occasionally an option for temporarily bending things to your will, this is simply too large a problem and they are too uninvested to do it simply to make you happy.

Move. I tell you this as someone who used to be a terrible roommate and is still not exactly the most pristine spouse - there's no speech you can give that will do anything other than make you kind of look like an asshole (and you're not, for wanting to live in a clean home, but you don't get to tell other people what to do). If you want your situation to be different, you have to remove yourself from this one.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:37 AM on September 24 [3 favorites has favorites]

Glad you gave an update. If budget is your boyfriend's concern, the two of you could live in a studio. Sounds like he's barely home anyway because of his work hours.

I think you need to explain to him that the two of you are not therapists, your roommates are not asking for behavior modification therapy, and that no amount of discussion will change things and at the same time preserve a harmonious environment. Yes, the two of you will be moving out to make you, the OP, feel more comfortable, but that's OK. You are important too. Basically you need to convince him that the 2-month trial period is unwise and a fruitless idea.

Good luck and I hope you find a place soon and have a really awesome blow-out going away party at your old place that you don't clean up at all! ;-)
posted by tk at 8:53 AM on September 24 [1 favorite has favorites]

Move.
You can't--and don't really have any special right to--enforce your high standard of cleanliness on other adults. You're not going to be happy living with them. So move out.
posted by willpie at 8:57 AM on September 24

The one thing you are completely in control of here is whether or not you stay in the apartment. If you voluntarily decide to stay because you want to live with your boyfriend and he refuses to move out, I think you need to suck it up. You are now aware that the other roommates standards of cleanliness are far beneath your own yet would be choosing to live there anyway because being with your boyfriend I'm assuming outweights your annoyance at the mess.

I'm not trying to excuse the other roommates behavior, which sounds gross and would annoy me too, but when you are fully aware of the situation and decide not to take the one path that would cure it (moving out), I think you sort of lose your right to complain.
posted by The Gooch at 9:09 AM on September 24

Leave. And add to BF to the 'unsuitable for long term relationships' list. Any man who won't address this issue, also will not have your back later in life when it counts or stand up to his parents and other relatives for you.
posted by x46 at 9:32 AM on September 24 [2 favorites has favorites]

Ok. I've lived with somewhere on the order of 45 different roommates in the last ten years. I think you have two basic options:

A) move out, or get them to.

B) pick your battles. These people basically do not have the same standards you do. It may be possible, though, that you can come to an accomodation that will keep you sane and let you get by. From your description of the situation, this is what I'd do:

1) Start friendly, "hey, I'm really enjoying living with you guys, but there are a couple of thing that I think we need a better system for."

2) Set up a schedule/system/standard for taking out trash and recycling. If all of the trash is out of the house, it makes a huge difference. Same with dirty dishes.

3) Keep your stuff (camera, etc) in your rooms. In a separate conversation, be direct that they should not come into your room and take your stuff without asking.

This will still leave you doing most of the maintenance cleaning like vacuuming and deep kitchen cleaning. It also does nothing to resolve the issues about them not fixing their toilet, for example, and using yours. Those issues are fundamentally unlikely to change. You can make a point to address them directly, when they arise, but in my experience that's best saved for the big ones.

You'll have to decide if this is good enough. But pragmatically, I think it's the best you're likely to get. My advice would be to try and take a temporary view of this, and either accept it or not. I'm not saying you should stay, but if you do, you have to get over being angry. I think it's really way more upsetting to be angry at your roommates a lot of the time, than it is to clean. (Not saying it's irrational to be upset, just that if you're going to stay, you're going to have to let go of some of the anger to stay sane).

Good luck.
posted by mercredi at 9:35 AM on September 24

"sweet but clueless"?

Let me guess. Younger brother?
And you're the "mom" picking up after them...
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:39 AM on September 24 [1 favorite has favorites]

Food theft and occasional use of your bathroom are minor issues. Them borrowing expensive shit like digital cameras and causing damage to the apartment (leaving clogged toilets for weeks, staining the carpet with makeup) are pretty major ones, and would be cause for a house meeting (or series of house meetings) in any living situation I've been in/observed, ever.

It sounds like if you want to move out you are going to have to do some facilitating; call a couple meetings (with EVERYONE present; if your schedules clash, work something out), make good faith attempts at instituting a cleaning schedule. Make a list of the significant shit they've borrowed and not returned (this does not include food and toilet paper, but rather stuff like your camera). Let them know that you're thinking of moving out in two months if things do not improve on a permanent basis. Discuss splitting the cost of a maid to come and clean once a week or something, so the cleaning duties don't fall entirely on you and your BF's shoulders; in private, you and your BF can weigh that cost against the potential cost of getting a new place.

That's if your name is not on the lease.

If your name IS on the lease, let them know that they have two months to shape up or ship out - and that's providing that no more crap goes missing in the interim. In my circles, this would be considered cheating, but if all of you are on the lease together you may want to consider talking to the landlord about the fact that they're letting repairs go untended to; they're risking getting you all evicted with that anyway, and if you approach the landlord before he or she has a chance to find out, they may cut you and your boyfriend some slack. Only do this if you see no other way of working things out, though.

I'm normally a bit more "oh, let it slide" when it comes to roommate relations, but theft of major stuff like cameras and letting the place fall into actual disrepair (rather than just messiness) sucks hugely, no matter what the living situation is. That said - and this is important - two months is a pretty reasonable waiting period to institute some changes and see whether or not they take, especially if you haven't had an actual sit-down with these people to discuss things yet.
posted by ellehumour at 9:46 AM on September 24

Are the rest of these folks on as tight of a budget as your boyfriend? Would it be easier if everyone chipped in and hired a maid service once every couple of weeks? That wouldn't solve the daily problems, but it would mean the basics get hit regularly and you don't have to do it. Plus, split five ways (even if you pay 40%), it might not be that expensive.

I've found this to be a real sanity saver in living with people with different cleanliness needs and habits, and if the money is there, it could save a lot of hassle with your boyfriend's brother and his girlfriend.
posted by immlass at 9:54 AM on September 24 [1 favorite has favorites]

I'm going to strongly suggest you not draw up a schedule of chores and present it to them. As many people above have said, this needs to be a discussion amongst everyone, not a series of decrees from you.

There are a few classic options regarding dealing with cleaniness differences:
1) List of chores
2) Let it go and presume they'll eventually get annoyed themselves and clean up
3) Leave cleaning supplies around (my current roomie is trying this one) hoping they'll get the hint.
4) Just get over it.

Not one of these works, especially if the level of cleanliness is not a health hazard or major security deposit risk. There are ranges of reasonable, and clearly yours does not match your roommates'. Neither of you is necessarily wrong (again barring the health hazard issue), and it's not really right that you expect your housemates to keep to your standard (rather than middle ground), nor that you feel like you're "picking up after them". They might just not care, and again, that doesn't make them bad people, or even clueless--- just not good roommates for you. Similarly your standard of cleanliness isn't necessarily too high; it's just not what they're going to choose on their own. You can't get over it because living below your standards of cleanliness is as annoying as getting yelled at for not cleaning up dirt you can't even see.

You likely need to move out unless you can all collectively come to some middle ground of cleanliness, which isn't going to be easy (I don't actually think it's possible, but more power to you if you can manage). Be willing to compromise, and expect some compromise from them, too.

Except about the taking your property thing; private space is private space. Get locks if they have a different standard here, again until you can move out, which is what you should really do.
posted by nat at 10:16 AM on September 24

Move out, and tell the boyfriend that if he wants to continue living with you, he'll need to come along.

He's set you up in an impossible situation. There's no way you could live peacefully with ANY roommates while nagging at them over their behavior for two months, and you're supposed to maintain a relationship with at least one and possibly two of the roommates for the longterm after that? Can't happen.

Bite the bullet and move out (and if the boyfriend starts de facto living with you in your lovely, clean place, charge him half the rent).
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 10:36 AM on September 24

Move out or dramatically lower your standards.

I've lived in +15 houses with around 20 different housemates over the years. There is literally no way you will win this battle - I've fought it myself, from both sides, many times, and frankly the only time I would make the investment now is with a partner with whom I believe I will spend many years living with.

You can try rosters, being a bitch, being a saint, fines, cleaning days, stop cleaning altogether, whatever - they will never come around, I promise you that. Maybe if it was you and BF against 1, but not when it's kinda 2 vs solid 3. You are outgunned and outnumbered; to continue pushing will simply build up resentment on both sides, ultimately damaging your relationship with BF. Say it's important to you, it's awkward to fight, you want to move out.
posted by smoke at 4:49 PM on September 24 [1 favorite has favorites]

I either know you and don't know you're here on Mefi, or I know someone in your EXACT situation. The advice I'd give her is everyone needs to go their own way for a while - that is, move out. Everyone needs to contribute to the household equally. And the whole taking of possessions without asking is just unacceptable. If I were you, I'd make a list of what possessions you're missing (such as the digital camera) and tell everyone that if they're not back to you in a week you're reporting them stolen.

Being friends, even good friends, with someone does not necessarily mean you are compatible enough to live together.
posted by IndigoRain at 7:02 PM on September 24

Also, I don't think messiness in itself is bad, I just don't want to live with it, in my own life.

So don't.

You said you're all grown ups so it's not even like you have to put up with this in a college dorm or something. Confronting them will do nothing. Remember, they live there too, and they obviously have much lower standards of cleanliness than you. You can't really do anything about that aspect because like others have said, you're not their mom nor should you act like it.

My boyfriend thinks that if we sit them down and talk to them regularly about their behaviour, they'll shape up and we can all live here happily together.

Because that works out so well with parents with messy children. Again, you are not their mother. The boyfriend can stay if he thinks to pay for cheap rent he has to put up with this nonsense but you shouldn't have to. This type of relationship is exactly what will lead to resentment on all sides.
posted by like_neon at 1:40 AM on September 25

My boyfriend thinks that doing this will help me get better at conflict resolution

Looks to me like your conflict is more with your boyfriend for setting you to fight his battles with his brother. I think you will get better at conflict resolution if you let your boyfriend know either you are a team and he has to put your needs (for a home that meets your standards) above his brother's needs. You can do it, don't let your boyfriend send you off on this fool's mission as a weak-assed attempt to absolve himself of responsibility in your relationship and as a housemate to the others.

and if they two of you get your own place I hope you don't fall into the same pattern of him choosing to working too much to do his share of chores without some benefit for you - a useful metric would be to reduce your share of the rent by charging your housekeeping at his hourly rate
posted by saucysault at 4:06 AM on September 25 [1 favorite has favorites]