Kludgy home electronics melts pizzas

September 17, 2009 12:05 PM

How can I inexpensively stop my washing machine from melting my ice cubes without burning my house down?

The outlets for my washer and dryer are on the same circuit as those for the appliances in the kitchen. My house is 60 years old, and is ungrounded, so to meet code requirements, the previous owner installed a GFCI unit in one of the kitchen outlets. All of the other kitchen outlets, including the one the refrigerator plugs into, are affected by this GFCI.

Unfortunately, when my washing machine switches from the rinse cycle to spin, something in that transition causes the GFCI to throw, which powers down the entire kitchen. This doesn't happen all the time, but about, say, 1 in 2 washes.

We've put up with this for 5 years now. A couple years ago, we bought a new washer -- no difference. This is very irritating, because we basically can't leave the washer running when we aren't at home, as we keep frozen bulk foods in the freezer and they will be ruined. We can't even run the washer when we go to bed!

So I'm wondering -- how dangerous would it be, really, if I just replaced the GFCI with a standard outlet until we sold the house? I'm guessing the GFCI is more aimed at keeping people from getting shocked if they drop an appliance in a sink, etc., like the one in the bathroom, yes? We don't really use electrical appliances near the kitchen sink.

Someday, we'll either have the system grounded, or go through the hassle of attaching the washer/dryer outlet to a different circuit, but in the meantime, would removing the GFCI really imperil us or our house?

posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! to home & garden (13 comments total)

What if you got a surge protector between the GFCI and the washing machine? I'm not sure if it would work, but I feel like it could trip that surge protector before hitting both outlets.
posted by stresstwig at 12:09 PM on September 17

You can try replacing the outlet with a new GFCI - it's not common, but they can go bad. It's also possible that your existing one has been wired incorrectly, and perhaps the vibration from the washer is causing two wires to touch and the GFCI to trip.

If it still happens after you've replaced it, wait it out until you can call in an electrician. DO NOT try and replace the GFCI outlet with a regular one. There is a reason the GFCI is firing, and you need to find out what that reason is, and yes, bypassing it can put you or your house at risk.
posted by deadmessenger at 12:16 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]

The pragmatic answer is no, until someone throws the radio into the sink and dies.

You need a GFCI even with grounding if the outlet is near water. You really need a separate circuit for the appliances. I'd get an estimate. It might not be that big of deal.
posted by Carmody'sPrize at 12:22 PM on September 17

big of A deal. sheesh.
posted by Carmody'sPrize at 12:23 PM on September 17

One more thing, GFCIs are only for life safety. Your circuit breaker takes care of the house.
posted by Carmody'sPrize at 12:24 PM on September 17

stresstwig: a surge protector does absolutely nothing without an equipment ground. An ungrounded (two wire) GFCI will provide electrical protection, but does not provide an equipment ground. So a surge protector wouldn't do any good here.

A GFCI isn't just to keep you from getting electrocuted if you drop an appliance in the sink; it also keeps you from getting electrocuted if the appliance breaks. For instance, say the hot wire inside your metal refrigerator comes loose one day. When that loose live wire comes in contact with the metal casing of your fridge, your fridge is suddenly hot, and you'll get zapped if you happen to touch the fridge and any other path to ground at the same time. The GFCI prevents this from happening, but doesn't provide an equipment ground, which some devices may need to protect themselves from damage (but probably not a refrigerator, though I'm no expert).

In other words, removing the GFCI is a Bad Idea. It's not just there to protect you from your own carelessness, but also from a potentially life-threatening failure inside the appliance. There's a reason these things are required by law in kitchens.

Get an electrician to come out and look at the system. A GFCI or circuit breaker tripping is not a normal condition and indicates that something is wrong! When something is wrong with your electricity, you need to make it right, not disable the safety feature that's telling you there's a problem.
posted by zachlipton at 12:26 PM on September 17

One temporary fix could be to use an extension cord to power your refrigerator from a non-GFCI outlet when running the washing machine at night/when you're out. Just make sure the extension cord is in good working order (properly insulated, no cuts, heavy enough gauge to carry the current, etc).

As you've already indicated, the permanent solution is to move the refrigerator circuit from the washing machine/dryer circuit path.
posted by forforf at 12:32 PM on September 17

If you feel confident replacing the GFCI oulet, go out and buy a new one (they don't cost too much). Replace the current outlet. If that solves your problem, great (either the old GFCI was getting flaky or it was just too sensitive). If it doesn't, then you could try replacing the outlet that the washing machine plugs into with the new GFCI receptacle (wired so that only the washing machine outlet is protected by the new GFCI and putting the old one back in place, of course). With any luck, the new GFCI will trip before the old one and your freezer will still be running even though the washer isn't. If the old GFCI trips before the new one, you could try switching the positions of the two GFCIs, which should cause the washing machine GFCI to trip first (i.e. the washing machine GFCI will be the more sensitive one). If that doesn't work, it might be time to call an electrician.
posted by ssg at 1:14 PM on September 17

If it were me, I'd call an electrician and get an estimate. If it's less than, say $100...? Sounds reasonably inexpensive to me, and would improve your quality of life a bunch. If it's not, at least you'd know the scope of the problem. But not being able to run your washer without tripping the switch sounds like bad news to me.
posted by leahwrenn at 1:15 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]

A GFCI or circuit breaker tripping is not a normal condition and indicates that something is wrong!

Well, yeah. Something is wrong and M.C. Lo-Carb! already knows what it is: his washing machine is connected to a circuit with a GFCI on it. It isn't supposed to be on a GFCI circuit and this is causing him a problem. Washing machines have big electric motors in them, which can cause a GFCI to trip even when everything is working as it should (Google it, this is a common problem).
posted by ssg at 2:16 PM on September 17

There are a couple of things you can try. First, as others suggested, you could just replace the GFCI with a newer device. Some GFCI's are more sensitive to large motors turning on and off than others.

Second, you could move the location of the GFCI to a different outlet. Normally a GFCI will not be on the refrigerator or washer circuit because of false tripping. They will have a dedicated circuit. Without rewiring your house, you are stuck with a common circuit. Instead you could figure out in what order all of the outlets in your kitchen are wired. A GFCI can be connected in either of two ways. In the most common method it is wired so that all outlets down stream of the GFCI are disconnected. It can also be wired so that only the GFCI outlet is affected and others downstream are still working. Ideally you could arrange it so that only the outlets near the sink are protected while the others operate normally. Or you could put multiple GFCI's just in the outlets near the sink and bypass power to all of the others.

By the way, the reason motors can generate a false trip is because they are inductive loads. The GFCI precisely measures the current going in and out. If it doesn't exactly match, it assumes there is a leak somewhere and trips. An inductive load may not have the exact same current going in and out, especially when starting or stopping. But over a cycle or many cycles the average current is the same. So the GFCI has to average the two currents over time, a fraction of a second, in order to do the proper comparison. Some GFCI devices do a better job of this averaging than others and are less like to be tripped by motors.
posted by JackFlash at 6:19 PM on September 17

Low-cost temporary solution: Run the washing machine off another circuit. Use a nice heavy-gauge extension cord.
posted by exphysicist345 at 6:35 PM on September 17

You may be in violation of the "code" if you replace that outlet. Depending on your area, GFCI receptacles are required by law in wet locations, ie kitchen sinks, bathrooms, laundry areas, etc. Usually within 6 feet or so, again depending on your area. The GFCI is designed to trip if it detects a difference in amperage ( .005 or more) between the black wire and the white wire. Sometimes excess current causes the GFCI to trip ( interrupt the circuit). Its probably doing what it was designed to do.

I wouldn't replace it with a regular outlet. It should be plugged into a GFCI.
posted by Taurid at 9:45 PM on September 17