I know basically nothing about football, but I know I like to drink beer and shout profanity with people wearing team colors

September 8, 2009 9:19 PM

Help a clueless American attend a football game in Europe!!

I'll be travelling in central and eastern Europe approximately October 21 through November 10. I just up and decided to take this trip a couple of days ago, so I'm still in the very early planning stages. I am tenatively thinking I'll begin in Amsterdam or Berlin and end up in either Athens or Istanbul. Intermediate locations under consideration include other parts of Germany and Greece, Kraków, Prague, and Budapest. Or whatever looks exciting when I go look at all the pretty pictures in the travel section at the bookstore. (Yeah, I just listed half the continent. But it all sounds exciting, I want to go everywhere and I can't make up my mind!! Anyway, my intent is to actually spend several days in each of four cities with some sightseeing in between.)

I would like to go to a football game while I'm there. I know basically nothing about it, but I know that I like to drink beer and watch sports and shout profanity with people wearing team colors. For someone who's not supporting a particular team, where in this part of the world would be fun to go to a game? I'm more concerned with having an interesting experience than with seeing, y'know, a really good team or a big matchup. I'd prefer not to spend a ridiculous amount on the ticket. Is it feasible to buy a ticket the day of the game, or would it be easier to buy one online ahead of time? (I'm assuming based on my American football experience I can buy tickets online, so correct me if this is wrong.) What else do I need to know? Thanks!

posted by little e to sports, hobbies, & recreation (16 comments total)

I'd recommend a Bundesliga game. The ones I've been to had fantastic chanting that went on for the whole game. I speak some German so I could understand and join in so it was a hoot.

The Bundelsliga is also fairly high scoring so you should see some goals.

Hertha Berlin are popular but not too popular. The Olympiastadion is big so it seems not to sell out ( at least from the bits I've seen recently on TV ).

The basic chants are pretty simple and seem to have a lot of pigs in them.
posted by sien at 10:29 PM on September 8

There are lots of good teams in the places you're planning on visiting. A few teams who you can look up online, find fixtures:

- Ajax
- Hertha Berlin
- AEK Athens
- Bekistas

There are sure to be others. I'd say either Ajax or Hertha Berlin would put on a good game.

I would recommend against going to watch football in Turkey - in a few European games, there have been injuries and even deaths, and although I have no idea what domestic matches are like, I get the feeling it can be pretty manic.

One thing to remember is that you'll be there around Champions League time, which means that you could see some interesting matchups. Debrecen v Liverpool on the 24th would be my personal pick if you're in Budapest at the time, and might be easier to get tickets for than many other European games.
posted by djgh at 10:33 PM on September 8

I don't know all the schedules for this season but take a look at this wikipedia page. It lists major soccer rivalries in Europe. Then you need to figure out the schedules of course (just google the specific combination that you are interested and add 09/10 to your query to see when they are playing this year).

and whichever game you decide to see, always be on the home side. It is always good to be safe, especially for you. I mean even if you watch the game on the home side, you'll be an outsider.

And finally, some of my favorite (and obviously geographically myopic) games.

Fenerbahçe vs Galatasaray
Panathinaikos vs Olympiacos
Trabzonspor vs Fenerbahçe
Barcelona vs Real Madrid
Celtic vs Rangers
Liverpool vs Manchester United

For tickets, I know very little, so it might be a good idea to find soccer forums to ask about it. This forum seems to have decent amount of people writing.

Good luck!
posted by caelumluna at 10:42 PM on September 8

As for the hooliganism, this wikipedia page might be a good source. It has sections for all relevant countries. Also, there is a documentary series called Football Factories and International Football Factories, that would probably give you a good idea of what to expect (Almost all are available on youtube I think).
posted by caelumluna at 11:04 PM on September 8

I'd suggest avoiding the big clubs and going to somewhere with a loyal following, but not a Champions League-grade club. There's really something to be said for experiencing the game in a slightly crappy ground with a slightly crappy team with less of the polish that UEFA cash bestows upon them.

The Bundesliga is probably the best bet, because tickets are relatively cheap, more likely to be available on the day or near the day, there are standing sections in the grounds, and they sell beer. Doesn't have to be a top-league team: as that post notes, you get big crowds at lower-league matches. But you could go to one of the Prague teams' matches. Or a second-division Greek team. Definitely go in with the home supporters, probably avoid Turkish domestic matches.

Now, the caveats. Your profile suggests that you are a woman. Why did I check? Frankly, and depressingly, to see if you were non-white, because central and eastern European football supporters do not have a great reputation for racial tolerance. Attending a match as a woman runs into similar, if less severe issues. The Bundesliga has about 20% female attendance, and that's probably higher than anywhere further east or southeast. The Dutch league is going to be a bit less of a men's club, and have the advantage of more English-speakers. (Though I'd probably lean towards a Willem II or a FC Twente over an Ajax or Feyenoord.)

It feels patronising to say it, and shouldn't put you off attending -- I used to stand alongside a group of women behind the goal of my local English team, and while they got some lip, they gave it back -- but while the standing section behind the goal is the traditional epicentre of football support at its most raucous, it can also be a bit of a bear pit. On the other hand, there's no reason why you shouldn't end up, say, with a repertoire of rude Hungarian chants to take home with you, but an unaccompanied American woman showing up in the crazy end of a football ground in central Europe is sorta kinda weird, so if you can make acquaintances on your travels or perhaps find someone here who'd be willing to take you to the match, that'd probably make things a little safer.
posted by holgate at 11:35 PM on September 8 [1 favorite]

Very much agree with holgate about giving lower league a whirl - attracts a different kind of supporter and can be much more fun. Maybe buy, beg or borrow a copy of Simon Inglis' Football Grounds of Europe to get some ideas? (He earlier did books on the grounds of English league and then non-league, i.e. semi-pro/amateur sides) Main caveat there is it's a couple of decades old, but the magic of the Internet provides updated guides that could be combined with Inglis' excellent eye. One key word that might help your search for specific countries is 'ground-hopping' which describes the hobby of trying to visit all stadia in a given country/league or whatever: here's a German site that came up on Google; this Polish one was linked off Wiki; this lad seems to have even extended the practice stateside. Those should give you subjective accounts of the experience of watching a match at different venues.
posted by Abiezer at 1:58 AM on September 9

Just FYI, Champions League games don't serve alcohol (or at least they don't in England). This may be a pro or a con for you.

I would go for a Champions League game personally (American, girl, living in England for 3 years). I really like seeing the unusual matchups and if you're lucky you can see some real differences in style to start to appreciate how football can be so varied. Holgate is correct in that there is a huge difference between league divisions but really to each his own. And Holgate is also correct with the more shadier aspects you should consider as a woman travelling alone and I think I'd feel more peace of mind in a less "grittier" environment, less authentic or no. I personally like nice stadiums, I like swish, I like seeing the kids wave the huge football parachute "thing" at the beginning of the game (you'll know what I mean if you go).

Just so long as you go back to the States to tell everyone how much fun football can actually be, it's all good. ;)
posted by like_neon at 1:58 AM on September 9

Celtic vs Rangers
No, you don't want to go to that, unless you want to be surrounded by cro-magnon bigots. I used to live a block away from the Rangers ground, and I would hide on match days.
posted by scruss at 5:27 AM on September 9

n'thing the Bundesliga. Terrific atmosphere, high scoring games, cheap and easily obtainable tickets and accessible stadiums. Many German stadiums have 'family' sections, as well as 'super fans sections' and of course normal sections. I don't want to second guess what your preference would be, but its nice to have options right? Naturally the more you spend on your ticket, the more likely you are to be enjoying civilised company - all thought this need not be a hard and fast rule there is something to it in my experiencee. Also if your only going once, possibly in your whole life, it makes sense to get as good a view as you can afford.YMMV


Great German football experiences can be had at all the major clubs, Werder Bremen are particularly family friendly and have a reputation for playing attacking football, the city is cool to visit for a day or two IMOP. St Pauli (Hamburg 2nd div.) offer an utterly unique - that is to say punk themed - football experience that may suit your requirements for a special experience rather than a skilful match. Remember Football is really popular & few stadiums have capacities over 70'000. Bayern Munich's Allianz Arena takes 69'000 and average attendance is 69'000 (of course they are the most popular club in Germany, but still its impressive) - one option if you want to go to Allianz, which is way cool looking as it was designed by the same Architects as the 'birds nest' Olympic Stadium in Beijing, would be to go to an 1860 Munich game. A 2nd division club who also use the stadium but only fill 60% of it. Match days in Muncih are great for people watching because all the central bier halls are full of colourful, often very traditional looking,* fans before and after the games.


Buying tickets on the day for Bundesliga games is possible (from touts) but complicated by the large crowds, potential language barriers and asymmetric information relationship between you and the tout. Buying online before hand is simple and you can see what tickets are avial. for what games and when. You can buy in person from the stadium or ticket shop during the week. However, your itinerary may make it hard for you to get there more than a day before you want to go, leaving you open to disappointment if its sold out.


*That is large beerbellied, moustache and leder hosen toting Bavarians.
posted by munchbunch at 5:52 AM on September 9

Yup, I am white, female, and I could pass for about 17 years old. This is very good, I have lots of reading to do!! Thank you all very much, I really appreciate it.
posted by little e at 5:59 AM on September 9

You'll probably be disappointed when you realise that most football grounds are 'dry' and therefore don't allow alcohol, or drunks, inside.

Champions League games are a triumph of hype and marketing over real a good football experience. Most good humour is heard and experienced at lower league grounds. Firstly because you can actually hear what is going on instead of P.A. announcements and mind numbing musical blasts at goals etc, and secondly most genuine footie fans are found well away from the glory hunters at Chelsea, Bayern etc.

Avoid at all costs the Glasgow derby: it is Scotland's shame!
posted by cameronfromedinburgh at 6:35 AM on September 9

I'm going to echo everyone who says go with the Dutch or German leagues. High likelihood that many people will speak English, probably a more friendly and safer environment. If you were in Spain, I'd recommend Barcelona purely because they play such good football. If you go to London, you could try Fulham (they're a decent team but not one of the absolute top, and they actually market a section of their ground for neutrals - I suspect they are marketing to people who come to London and just want to see a game, and can't get tickets for the big clubs). [Alternatively, come with me to watch an absolutely rubbish side that is owned by an internet-based collective of fans]

I personally would not attend any of the derbies listed above (except maybe Barcelona-Real Madrid) unless I supported one of the teams. Potential for violence is just too high.

Worth mentioning: seating is divided into home and away supporters - the supporters do not mix. You are unlikely to be able to buy a seat in the away section, it will be allocated to supporter's club members. You would probably buy tickets from the home club's website - in some cases you have to do this before the game - you cannot buy tickets on the gate. Order these in advance so they can get mailed out to you, you don't want to queue up for them at the ground [basing this on England only; may not apply in more efficient countries, but I spent an hour queuing to collect my tickets at a ground once and got in just before kickoff, with hundreds of people behind me]
posted by Infinite Jest at 7:00 AM on September 9

Go see Ajax (Amsterdam) and don't forget to pronounce it AYE-yacks. Not like the American sink cleanser.
posted by Zambrano at 8:57 AM on September 9

Another American girl here, living in England (Liverpool) for nearly six years.

I know nothing about football, not being a fan. But my husband is a superfan and knows everything. I don't have much to add other than I think it would be more fun to see one of the Champions League teams, just because these teams and players are so incredibly famous worldwide (US excluded). I would humbly suggest going to see Liverpool play if you can, because despite my lack of interest I think Liverpool is a brilliant team and not as starry as say, Chelsea or Man U. If you do decide to go to either a Liverpool or Everton match and you want to meet up with other fans, memail me. I know lots of (normal, non-psychotic) people who go to lots of the matches. If you have an especially hard time finding tickets, memail me and I can find you some.

Be careful and have fun! Football matches can be very exciting.
posted by triggerfinger at 12:22 PM on September 9

The reason I'd advise against a Champions League group match is that it's usually pricy, the matches aren't always played with full commitment, the rivalries aren't really well-established and everything's a bit forced and stage-managed for TV and slightly off-kilter. If you're in a city where, say, the visiting team for the domestic league is CL-grade, and go in the home end, you'll see world-famous players getting insulted in ways you never knew existed.

(As someone who returned home to watch two astonishing European comebacks in the space of a month, I'll say they were the best experiences in a football ground in my life, and will likely never be matched. But that was in the knockout stages, where everything mattered.)

St Pauli's actually a great recommendation, not least because they have the highest female support base in the Bundesliga, and one that they actively cultivate. It's not going to be a standard match experience, but it's going to be an experience.

That dovetails with my final point: if you want to bring a shirt back, the cool thing would be to pick an obscure team and buy it from the club shop (usually in or near the ground, but sometimes in the city centre). You'll see people in the US wearing shirts from the big clubs that they ordered online, but probably not a St Pauli or Union Berlin away shirt.
posted by holgate at 9:30 PM on September 9

You'll probably be disappointed when you realise that most football grounds are 'dry' and therefore don't allow alcohol, or drunks, inside.

Aw, that is disappointing. *sigh* I did go to a Southeastern Conference school, what with their dry stadiums and arenas, so I can still enjoy sports without beer if I must. I also know all the best tricks for hiding whiskey on one's person, but I won't be pulling that in a foreign country.

if you want to bring a shirt back, the cool thing would be to pick an obscure team and buy it from the club shop

That's an awesome idea, actually.
posted by little e at 12:21 PM on September 13