All I want is a beer!!!

September 6, 2009 7:47 AM

Can someone explain to me liquor laws in Pennsylvania?

I just moved to PA, and am having the hardest time finding a place to buy beer. like in a 6-pack. And/or a bottle of wine... why can't I buy beer at a liquor store? Why can't I buy wine at the grocery store?

Can somebody please explain to me the liquor laws in PA, and why everything is so complicated to buy?

Bonus points for a liquor/beer store in the west philly/university city/powelton area.

posted by chicago2penn to law & government (27 comments total)

There are no liquor/beer stores in PA. There are state stores, which sell liquor and wine, and bottle shops that sell beer. Here is a handy Wikipedia article.
posted by leesh at 7:52 AM on September 6

Wine and hard liquor is only sold at the state-run "Wine & Spirits Shoppe." (Locals often refer to this as a "state store." A quick check at the store locator should get you a convenient one; for example, there's one at 40th & Market that has Sunday hours, though I'd call ahead to make sure labor day weekend isn't messing things up. There's a slow move toward putting mini-state stores in certain supermarkets, but I wouldn't hold my breath, and I certainly wouldn't expect it to be happening in Philly.

Beer can be purchased in six-packs at convenience stores (and in theory at bars, but usually not in practice), or in cases at beer distributors. You're not going to find it at chain convenience stores (Wawa, 7-11) but local ones are more likely - I don't know West Philly, though, so I can't really help you out for particulars.

Yes, it's complicated; yes, most of us find it really stupid and frustrating.
posted by Tomorrowful at 7:58 AM on September 6

I used to buy six packs at bars in West Philly all the time -- it was convenient and not terribly expensive (this is a couple of years ago). And it was a great way to meet folks.
posted by fourcheesemac at 8:09 AM on September 6

Yes, it's very complicated and I can't tell you the reasons behind it, but I can tell you where to get stuff.

If you want wine or liquor, go to a Wine & Spirits shop.

If you want a case of beer, go to a Beer Distributor.

If you want a 6-pack of beer, find a restaurant that sells them (usually places like pizza shops or other take-out restaurants that also have liquor licenses).
posted by LolaGeek at 8:10 AM on September 6

It's been a few years since I lived in West Philly, but I think the closest state store to you is the one on Chestnut, I think around 20th. I can't remember anywhere that sold beer, but your best bet is to find a local, non-chain deli. If you don't mind hopping a bus, the Foodery at (I think) 12th and Walnut has an amazing selection of beer.

Oh, and the urge to scream 'what the fuck, PA' and beat your head against the wall is totally normal...
posted by kalimac at 8:12 AM on September 6 [1 favorite]

Yes, everything is complicated as hell here where buying alcohol is concerned. You are not alone in your craziness.

One thing to be aware of, when buying six-packs... At least over here in Pittsburgh (not sure if it's a state law or a local one), there's a limit to how many six packs one person can buy at once. If you want to pick up several, you're either going to need to bring multiple people, go multiple places, or find a place that likes you where they'll let you buy your limit, go put it in your car, and come back and buy more.

This state is nuts about certain things. Cheer up, it's better than it used to be - a couple years ago we started letting some wine stores be open on Sundays for limited hours, and supposedly there's a pilot program in the works where a handful of grocery stores will be allowed to sell alcohol.
posted by Stacey at 8:21 AM on September 6

Where in university city? I can think of a pizza shop that sells beer at the corner of 40th and Spruce, dunno how close that is to where you're at.
posted by graymouser at 8:39 AM on September 6

It's so complicated for you to buy beer because the beer distributors contribute more to the state politicians than you do.

Do you have access to a car? It might be worthwhile for you to make a short run down to Delaware, where saner conditions prevail. When a state persists in maintaining rules which favor special interests over the consumer, enterprising merchants in adjacent jurisdictions will frequently take advantage of the situation by setting up shop just across the state line.

I live very near the North Carolina-South Carolina border. North Carolina has a system of state liqour stores, whereas South Carolina does not. Gasoline taxes are higher in NC, and the fireworks laws are more restrictive. Consequently, as you cross the state line into SC on almost any highway, you are confronted with at least one liquor store, and a variety a gas stations and fireworks outlets. The rule of thumb is, "If burns, buy it in South Carolina".
posted by dinger at 8:39 AM on September 6 [1 favorite]

D'oh, "If IT burns, buy it in South Carolina".
posted by dinger at 8:41 AM on September 6

Do you have access to a car? It might be worthwhile for you to make a short run down to Delaware, where saner conditions prevail. When a state persists in maintaining rules which favor special interests over the consumer, enterprising merchants in adjacent jurisdictions will frequently take advantage of the situation by setting up shop just across the state line.

With the caveat that enterprising cops will frequently take advantage of the situation by setting up shop just inside the state line. If you're just buying a little, it wouldn't be an issue. But if you're buying a lot, then keep in mind that you could be busted.

(That said, yes, there is a HUGE beer/liquor store in Delaware. It's the first exit in Delaware off 95, if I remember correctly.)
posted by inigo2 at 8:51 AM on September 6 [1 favorite]

Depending on where you live, it may just be worth a trip to Delaware or New Jersey. You still can't buy alcohol in grocery stores in New Jersey, but we have actual liquor stores.
posted by InsanePenguin at 8:52 AM on September 6

Some Wegmans grocery stores are selling 6-packs.
posted by ecsh at 9:00 AM on September 6

Must be some new law. I lived there in 2005 and 2006 (in Rittenhouse) and never had a problem buying beer. Just walk into any grocery store.
posted by Zambrano at 9:06 AM on September 6

Weird, but I like a state that encourages you to buy beer a case at a time. It is after all Back to school season.
posted by Gungho at 9:08 AM on September 6

Wegmans has a very good selection for a grocery store.

There is a bottle shop in Doylestown (im currently on the clock in it) that sells singles or mixed six packs. Over 300 beers, but pricey. The Foodery in Philadelphia has the same concept (I was once on the clock there as well, 10 years ago). I believe there is some kind of loophole in selling food.
We are sorta connected to a bar so we have a full kitchen, whereas the foodery has a miserable sandwich counter in the back.
posted by Palerale at 9:12 AM on September 6

With the caveat that enterprising cops will frequently take advantage of the situation by setting up shop just inside the state line. If you're just buying a little, it wouldn't be an issue. But if you're buying a lot, then keep in mind that you could be busted.

THIS. I live in Georgia, and for the weeks immediately prior to July 4th, the police pretty much set up shop right on the Alabama and SC state lines, to look for people who've bought fireworks. They pull over every car with Georgia tags driven by a young person, and then they make very prominent press releases patting themselves on the back for how many people they've caught.

I've no personal experience with this, but I can't imagine a reason why the police in PA would be any less predatory when it comes to buying liquor in Delaware.
posted by deadmessenger at 9:14 AM on September 6

p.s. it is my understanding that the alcohol laws here are very old and quaker.

there is a 3 tier system in play, where a distributor must come between you and the brewer.
distributors own various rights to distribute beer in certain areas. we use 6 or so different ones here at the store. multiples of the same distributor may have the same beers, but only one of them will be able to bring it to me. they trade these beers around quite often.

Wegmans has beer now because they sort of have a restaurant? Prepared food.
You are allowed to carry up to TWO six packs out of a place at once, unless you are buying a case from the warehouses. Very rarely, however, will someone not let you come back in for 12 more after dropping them off.
posted by Palerale at 9:19 AM on September 6

Must be some new law. I lived there in 2005 and 2006 (in Rittenhouse) and never had a problem buying beer. Just walk into any grocery store.

Your observational skills must be weak, as it's been this way for decades. Grocery stores in PA do not sell beer, period. Now, a take-out deli can sell beer, and there are certain requirements to get a license to do so. But Whole Foods or Superfresh? No beer.

As for the OP: further out in West Philly, you can for sure buy beer at Colonial Pizza (43rd and Pine) and The Best House (43rd and Baltimore, formerly "The Wurst House." Yeah.). Local 44 is a great bar at 44th and Spruce, though I don't know if they sell take-out. And there are a few bars on Baltimore between 40th and 50th from which to buy sixes.

If you want a case, I think there's a distributor on 47th b/t Pine and Spruce, but you're better off going to Springfield Distributor (just across the... well, the soon-to-be-reconstructed South Street Bridge) at 24th-ish just below South, or even Bella Vista Distributors on 11th and Catherine. If you like beer (i.e. good beer, not just crappy T&A-ad beers), Bella Vista is worth the trip.

There are also mix-a-six shops, the most prominent of which is the Foodery (one at 10th and Pine, the other at 2nd and something in Northern Liberties). There, you can pull six beers and make your own six-pack. There's another one, non-Foodery, on 21st below Chestnut; it doesn't have quite the selection (still very good) but it's less expensive, often by a buck per bottle depending on variety.

For liquor stores (wine and spirits), there used to be one at 40th and Market, but I don't know if it still exists. I think there was also one on 40-something and Baltimore. Both were small and crappy. Probably the best one within the city is at 13th and Chestnut ("Best" being very relative here); just take the Green Line (the trolley) to get there. Moore Brothers in Jersey is pretty amazing, but it's illegal to carry across state lines, so I can't suggest that. Right?

I've no personal experience with this, but I can't imagine a reason why the police in PA would be any less predatory when it comes to buying liquor in Delaware.

The amount of traffic between Philadelphia and New Jersey and Delaware is huge, and much of it is on major highways, so the chances of a given young person with PA plates having contraband liquor is relatively very low. The cops will follow a car with PA plates from a liquor store, but all one has to do is not head directly back to PA. Take a pitstop at the Cherry Hill Mall or something.
posted by The Michael The at 9:20 AM on September 6

If you're living in Philly and love beer, you have to make a point of checking out The Foodery. It is awesome.
posted by sickinthehead at 9:25 AM on September 6

…I can't imagine a reason why the police in PA would be any less predatory when it comes to buying liquor in Delaware.

Well, because the mere possesion of certain fireworks is illegal in Georgia, whereas the possesion of beer in Pennsylvania is not.

Then again, if someone is so obtuse as to be loading fireworks into their car in Alabama, in plain view of Georgia officers standing just on the other side of the state line, thereby giving the officers probable cause to search them as they cross back into Georgia, they are probably the kind of dolts the fireworks laws were intended to protect in the first place…
posted by dinger at 9:52 AM on September 6

If it makes you feel any better, at least you are allowed to look at the wine before you buy it now. When I moved to the state in the early '80s, the state liquor stores were setup like catalog stores. You walked in and were confronted by a long counter across the front of the shop barring you from actually browsing the merchandise. All of the bottles were stored in long shelves behind the counter that only the LCB employees could access. You had to look up what you wanted in a catalog and then ask the agent to go back and get it for you. It was like something out of a story about the Soviet Union's department stores.

I've been hearing about reforms to the system for the last twenty five years and haven't seen any movement yet.
posted by octothorpe at 10:06 AM on September 6

Probably PA maintains a state monopoly on liquor sales for the same reason OR does: it's a major source of revenue to the state.

They make money off beer sales, too, but not as much. (One difference is that in OR, grocery stores can sell wine.)
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 12:24 PM on September 6

If all you want is beer, then find the nearest beer distributor. Not bottle shop, but distributor. Then load up on cheap beer and forget about the stupid bottle shops.
posted by billysumday at 3:58 PM on September 6

That awesome beer/wine/liquor supermarket in Delaware is called Total Wine. They also have one in New Jersey, next to the Cherry Hill Mall. A good deal cheaper than Philly, plus a huge selection. I've gone many times without any law hassle. There are places really close to the state line where I've heard of cops looking for PA residents, but the Total Wine stores are fine.

Most of the time though, you're going to just want to buy a bottle here and there from the Wine & Spirits shops instead of stocking up like you're preparing for the apocalypse.

One thing is even though the state stores have limited selections, they will order anything for you if you want something special.

If you are at all budget minded, I would recommend against buying six-packs at take-out places. The prices are sometimes over a third the cost of a case.

Cheers!
posted by orme at 5:35 PM on September 6

Total Wine & More at Cherry Hill has the largest selkection of beers and spirits and is easy to get to from University city. The lower cost of beer, wine and spirits in NJ makes it well worth the drive. Plus, the Pennsylvania Wine board restrict the selection of beers and wines, so you often can't get the brand that you like in PA - just the brands that they have decided to stock this month (never the same selection twice). You can shop their selection here, but you can't get any alcohol shipped into Pennsylvania legally. The way I see it, every state has something that they profit from. In NJ it is legal gambling. In PA it is the state-run alcohol racket.
posted by Susurration at 6:28 PM on September 6

Essentially the extremely Quaker laws in place to restrict alcohol sales were extremely useful in corruption. All booze was sold and controlled by the state, and it's a lot easier to keep a money-making power than to gain it, so things have largely gone unchanged. Someone already posted the state store finder for wine and liquor and I'd be surprised if there isn't a store around Powelton Village if that's where you're living. As for beer, the best bet in that area for a six pack to go would probably be a pizza shop as they're most prevalent. In West Philly, the dirtier the pizza place or deli, the cheaper the beer. For larger quantities there are distributors with cases at 43rd and Walnut, as well as 48th and spruce. The best distributor in the city, IMHO, is Bella Vista. Not close by any eans to West Philly, but not terribly far on 76, and a good option if you're planning a party.
posted by itsonreserve at 11:47 PM on September 6

The PA Liquor Control Board is a weird and wonderful institution, but basically it works like this.

1. Hard liquor in bottles is only sold in state stores. Bars and liquor-selling establishments have to get their hard liquor from the state stores, just like you do. The selection and browse-ability has improved since I turned 21.

2. Wine is sold in state stores. Wine is also sold by the producing winery in winery-owned-shops and by-the-winery at things like street fairs / farmer's markets. (If the winery is doing the selling, apparently it's an "agricultural product".)

3. Beer, hard cider, malt beverages, wine coolers, and crap like Smirnoff Ice are all sold in bulk (case, keg, actually anything more than two six packs at a time) by Beer Distributors, specially licensed sellers-of-mild-drink. Check your local yellow pages for one near you.

4. Beer/coolers/malt beverages/hard cider, that sort of thing is also sold one or two six packs (The limitation is written in ounces, not in six-packs. Two pounder six packs kicks the volume of beverage over the limit but two twelve-ounce-can six packs is A-OK.) at a time by bars, by pizza joints with liquor licenses, etc. As I understand it, the beer has to be sold for consumption "on site" as well as for carry-out. (Recently Sheetz, a convenience store chain like WaWa or a 7-11 challenged this and lost: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2009/06/sheetz_cant_sell_takeout_beer.html)

Item 4 is poorly understood by non-natives. The rule is two normal-size six packs (12 oz containers, bottles or cans). If you want four six packs, then you take the two and pay for them and go out and put them in your car and go back into the bar and get two more and take them out and put them in your car. You have to pay twice. Yes, it's stupid. Don't argue with the cashier or bartender -- it isn't that person's fault and he or she cannot bend the rules, asinine though they are. Schlep your product out to the car as Nature intended, two normal-sized six packs at a time.

Pennsylvania has no equivalent bottle shop thing like in Maryland, where little convenience-store-sized-things exist to sell you booze (beer/wine/hard liquor) at all hours of the day and night out of one shop.
posted by which_chick at 12:28 PM on September 9