What is the signature sound of Grado headphones?
September 1, 2009 7:59 PM Subscribe
What is the signature sound of Grado headphones? Are they ok for listening on an iPod, specifically for electric bass (not rap music).
I play electric bass guitar, and I am looking for a good pair of headphones to go with my Tascam MP-BT1 bass trainer, which is basically a specialized MP3 player designed for practicing bass guitar (you can play along with MP3s).
I currently use a pair of AKG K240M, which are great sounding in general, but they are high impedance (600 ohm, I think) and the bass is really thin when plugged into my bass trainer, even at max volume. I'm looking to spend around $150, and am wondering if a pair of Grados would work. I'm looking for strong bass definition but clear sounding, not too boomy (no DJ headphones here). Open back is fine, I'm not terribly concerned about sound leakage. Not sure what the "signature" sound of Grados is, but I keep reading that they are "rock" headphones...which to me means "punchy bass".
Also, I've heard that they are not particularly comfortable...is this still true? I could wear the AKGs all day. Any other suggestions would be welcome.
My "reference" headphones are Ultimate Ears Triple-Fi 10Pro, so that's the level of sound quality I'm used to, although this pair will really only be used for practicing music, and maybe the occasional video game/movie.
I play electric bass guitar, and I am looking for a good pair of headphones to go with my Tascam MP-BT1 bass trainer, which is basically a specialized MP3 player designed for practicing bass guitar (you can play along with MP3s).
I currently use a pair of AKG K240M, which are great sounding in general, but they are high impedance (600 ohm, I think) and the bass is really thin when plugged into my bass trainer, even at max volume. I'm looking to spend around $150, and am wondering if a pair of Grados would work. I'm looking for strong bass definition but clear sounding, not too boomy (no DJ headphones here). Open back is fine, I'm not terribly concerned about sound leakage. Not sure what the "signature" sound of Grados is, but I keep reading that they are "rock" headphones...which to me means "punchy bass".
Also, I've heard that they are not particularly comfortable...is this still true? I could wear the AKGs all day. Any other suggestions would be welcome.
My "reference" headphones are Ultimate Ears Triple-Fi 10Pro, so that's the level of sound quality I'm used to, although this pair will really only be used for practicing music, and maybe the occasional video game/movie.
In my experience, Grados have strong highs are uncomfortable for extended listening due to their vice-like clamping on your head. I have had high-end Grados, Sonys, BeyerDynamic DT 770s, and Sennheiser 600s. I have been satisfied with all of them for the most part.
I am currently using the DT 770s with an old headphone amp. However, based on the amount of usage I give to headphones, my next pair will undoubtedly be another pair of Sennheisers. They are amazingly comfortable for extended periods of use due to the velour earcups, padded topbands, and also offer great clarity.
Finding a good pair of portable headphones tends to be more difficult for me. I had two pairs of Ultimate Ears which have great sound, but didn't have the best craftmanship. The earpiece broke and the wires frayed quickly both times.
posted by seppyk at 8:15 PM on September 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
I am currently using the DT 770s with an old headphone amp. However, based on the amount of usage I give to headphones, my next pair will undoubtedly be another pair of Sennheisers. They are amazingly comfortable for extended periods of use due to the velour earcups, padded topbands, and also offer great clarity.
Finding a good pair of portable headphones tends to be more difficult for me. I had two pairs of Ultimate Ears which have great sound, but didn't have the best craftmanship. The earpiece broke and the wires frayed quickly both times.
posted by seppyk at 8:15 PM on September 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you want more bass I think you should be thinking headphone amp (and their exist some wonderful miniature versions) rather than new cans. If you do go for new ones Grados are nice and loudish but can be difficult to drive at very high volumes due to their low impedance. The headphone amp cures all these ills for both high and low impedance cans.
posted by caddis at 8:19 PM on September 1, 2009
posted by caddis at 8:19 PM on September 1, 2009
Oh, and you are going to have a hard time beating the in ear phones sound quality with regular over the ear phones until you start spending some serious coin, not a mere $150.
posted by caddis at 8:23 PM on September 1, 2009
posted by caddis at 8:23 PM on September 1, 2009
I've got a pair of SR60s with the SR80 pads. The audio quality is very good. The ear issue can be uncomfortable for some people; they sit on my ears rather than around them. I'd recommend trying them on if you can find a local dealer. As phrontist mentioned they have no isolation from external sound and leak sound pretty aggressively. They work well with the iPod.
External headphone amps make a difference; I built my own (based on these plans) but Headroom has some well-reviewed ones.
posted by theclaw at 8:27 PM on September 1, 2009
External headphone amps make a difference; I built my own (based on these plans) but Headroom has some well-reviewed ones.
posted by theclaw at 8:27 PM on September 1, 2009
I think Grados deliver better low end than the 240s when driven by portable sources like the iPod, but I hate the way they sit on my head. They are just really, really uncomfortable. Especially the SR-60s. The SR-80s and 125s (staying in your price range) seem like they have better padding on the earpieces or something.
For really good bass from portable sources I'm going to second the IEM recs. The Etymotic ER-4P has insane extension and can be driven by anything to high levels, but they cost a bit more. I have two pairs of AKG 240Ms in the room I'm in now, and I also have a Total Bithead. Running analog sources into the Bithead doesn't do nearly as much for the bass generally as switching to the Etys, but in the case of the 240s, it makes more difference than normal. I just remembered I used a pair of 240s with the Bithead today. It was okay. Not nearly as good in the bass as the Etys + Bithead (Etys are in the shop). A decent headphone amp is like the size of a whole nother iPod though. I don't know anything about the output characteristics of the Tascam, which makes a huge difference with the 240s. The 240s are worthless with an iPod. They work fine with a Mackie. Personally, the main thing I like about the 240s is that they are comfortable enough to wear for like 15 hours straight. They don't annoy me in many particular ways, which most other headphones do, but they don't sound too radical either, I guess.
You can get good canalphones that are not as pricey as Etymotics ER-4 series. Wait wait wait...i just noticed you have those $400 UEs. Why don't you just use those? I've never heard those but that sounds like a way better option than dropping the money on a amp or a pair of earcramping Grados.
posted by jeb at 8:33 PM on September 1, 2009
For really good bass from portable sources I'm going to second the IEM recs. The Etymotic ER-4P has insane extension and can be driven by anything to high levels, but they cost a bit more. I have two pairs of AKG 240Ms in the room I'm in now, and I also have a Total Bithead. Running analog sources into the Bithead doesn't do nearly as much for the bass generally as switching to the Etys, but in the case of the 240s, it makes more difference than normal. I just remembered I used a pair of 240s with the Bithead today. It was okay. Not nearly as good in the bass as the Etys + Bithead (Etys are in the shop). A decent headphone amp is like the size of a whole nother iPod though. I don't know anything about the output characteristics of the Tascam, which makes a huge difference with the 240s. The 240s are worthless with an iPod. They work fine with a Mackie. Personally, the main thing I like about the 240s is that they are comfortable enough to wear for like 15 hours straight. They don't annoy me in many particular ways, which most other headphones do, but they don't sound too radical either, I guess.
You can get good canalphones that are not as pricey as Etymotics ER-4 series. Wait wait wait...i just noticed you have those $400 UEs. Why don't you just use those? I've never heard those but that sounds like a way better option than dropping the money on a amp or a pair of earcramping Grados.
posted by jeb at 8:33 PM on September 1, 2009
As phrontist mentioned they have no isolation from external sound and leak sound pretty aggressively.
Totally. The Grado design is basically wearing small speakers on your head. When you sit next to someone who is wearing them, its like sitting next to someone who taped a pair of computer speakers to a headband and slapped that on their dome.
If you do go for new ones Grados are nice and loudish but can be difficult to drive at very high volumes due to their low impedance.
Other way around, right? Generally speakers are easier to drive to higher levels from a given output if the impedance is lower, provided the output device can handle driving a load with impedance that low without distorting or burning up.
posted by jeb at 8:36 PM on September 1, 2009
Totally. The Grado design is basically wearing small speakers on your head. When you sit next to someone who is wearing them, its like sitting next to someone who taped a pair of computer speakers to a headband and slapped that on their dome.
If you do go for new ones Grados are nice and loudish but can be difficult to drive at very high volumes due to their low impedance.
Other way around, right? Generally speakers are easier to drive to higher levels from a given output if the impedance is lower, provided the output device can handle driving a load with impedance that low without distorting or burning up.
posted by jeb at 8:36 PM on September 1, 2009
Response by poster: To be clear, these aren't going to be used for "listening", they're to hear myself when practicing bass. So I obviously won't get the same sound quality as the Ultimate Ears for only $150, but would like to get a pretty decent sound, especially in the bass region.
I know all about headphone amps but really don't want to deal with one in this situation - I already have enough stuff to plug in (headphone, bass guitar, bass input).
posted by kenliu at 8:37 PM on September 1, 2009
I know all about headphone amps but really don't want to deal with one in this situation - I already have enough stuff to plug in (headphone, bass guitar, bass input).
posted by kenliu at 8:37 PM on September 1, 2009
Response by poster: And I'm ok with sound leakage. A little leakage from my headphones is way quieter than my 400W bass amp.
posted by kenliu at 8:39 PM on September 1, 2009
posted by kenliu at 8:39 PM on September 1, 2009
Response by poster: @jeb I use my UEs sometimes for practice, but they are often in my work bag or somewhere else inconvenient - I'd like to keep a set of cans in my music room next to my guitars. Plus the UE's are relatively fragile and kind of a pain to take on and off.
I think the Tascam is pretty weak. I get about the same subjective volume level with the Tascam on 1/4 volume with the UEs compare to 100% volume with the AKGs.
posted by kenliu at 8:44 PM on September 1, 2009
I think the Tascam is pretty weak. I get about the same subjective volume level with the Tascam on 1/4 volume with the UEs compare to 100% volume with the AKGs.
posted by kenliu at 8:44 PM on September 1, 2009
i have owned a couple pairs of the sr80s. at first i found them uncomfortable to wear for an extended period of time, because of the tight fit. once i realized you could loosen them up by bending the piece that sits on the top of your head i have not had a problem.
posted by phil at 9:23 PM on September 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by phil at 9:23 PM on September 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
I used to have some AKG K240s. I would not have used them without a headphone amp -- they don't get nearly enough oomph from your typical consumer headphone jack. I usually used them with a recording mixer. That's why the bass is probably thin through them.
I'm not familiar with your MP-BT1, but if it is "basically a specialized MP3 player", then you might have better luck buying either some sealed, isolating headphones that drive louder at lower power (ear canal headphones like these Denons for example) or with nice cans and a headphone amp of some kind. You can find battery powered and wired headphone amps with a quick Google. As an overbroad generality, $150 cans will be in the "prefers an amp" category. Your K240s will be fantastic through an amp!
I do have Grado SR60s and I love them. Very comfortable. I would describe them as very clear and "sparkly". Fantastic stereo image for the price. I don't use an amp with them. I would not have suggested them as being great for practicing bass -- they're not much in the midrange department, though they might be flatter with an amp.
posted by mindsound at 11:00 PM on September 1, 2009
I'm not familiar with your MP-BT1, but if it is "basically a specialized MP3 player", then you might have better luck buying either some sealed, isolating headphones that drive louder at lower power (ear canal headphones like these Denons for example) or with nice cans and a headphone amp of some kind. You can find battery powered and wired headphone amps with a quick Google. As an overbroad generality, $150 cans will be in the "prefers an amp" category. Your K240s will be fantastic through an amp!
I do have Grado SR60s and I love them. Very comfortable. I would describe them as very clear and "sparkly". Fantastic stereo image for the price. I don't use an amp with them. I would not have suggested them as being great for practicing bass -- they're not much in the midrange department, though they might be flatter with an amp.
posted by mindsound at 11:00 PM on September 1, 2009
Best answer: I just tried those 240s again with my headphone amp and a mains source. Not good enough. Definitely don't like the amp idea, but you don't like it either so no big.
I was thinking about this this morning, my new idea is "get big ass DJ headphones that are pretty cheap with deliberately hyped bass response. Sure, they won't sound great for general music listening, but for practicing the bass, I'd way rather have a sealed design thats comfortable and has hyped mid-bass than Grados. By a long shot. I'm thinking like...Sony MDR series. Well within your budget and I think they'd work great for practicing bass.
posted by jeb at 10:55 AM on September 2, 2009
I was thinking about this this morning, my new idea is "get big ass DJ headphones that are pretty cheap with deliberately hyped bass response. Sure, they won't sound great for general music listening, but for practicing the bass, I'd way rather have a sealed design thats comfortable and has hyped mid-bass than Grados. By a long shot. I'm thinking like...Sony MDR series. Well within your budget and I think they'd work great for practicing bass.
posted by jeb at 10:55 AM on September 2, 2009
I would describe them as very clear and "sparkly".
To your original question, this is how I would describe the signature sound of SR60s as well: sparkly, kinda airy.
posted by jeb at 10:56 AM on September 2, 2009
To your original question, this is how I would describe the signature sound of SR60s as well: sparkly, kinda airy.
posted by jeb at 10:56 AM on September 2, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks everyone! I think the Sony MDRs are the ticket. I think the MDR 7506s look like a good choice - they're pretty rugged and still have decent sound, and supposedly the bass is not too bloated.
posted by kenliu at 6:53 PM on September 3, 2009
posted by kenliu at 6:53 PM on September 3, 2009
Response by poster: I got the Sony MDR-7506s and HATED them. They aren't comfortable for me, and the sound is way over hyped at the high and low end (scooped out).
I could barely make out lower midrange frequencies, which is where you hear the bass guitar. Back to the drawing board.
Has anyone tried the AKG 240S (the newer ones that are lower impedance) - how are these different from the AKG 240 Mk II?
posted by kenliu at 12:22 PM on October 2, 2009
I could barely make out lower midrange frequencies, which is where you hear the bass guitar. Back to the drawing board.
Has anyone tried the AKG 240S (the newer ones that are lower impedance) - how are these different from the AKG 240 Mk II?
posted by kenliu at 12:22 PM on October 2, 2009
Are you just buying these things over the internet without trying them out in a store? That is a crazy way to buy audio gear. The one way that works is to buy gear used and then just sell it again for about what you paid if you don't like the sound.
By the way, the higher the impedance the easier it is to drive the phones with a puny amplifier like an iPod. Sennheiser 600 phones used are in your price range and will have excellent bass with even an iPod Nano. HeadRoom wants to sell you expensive toys, but their reviews and advice are excellent and they will take back anything you don't like in 30 days (at least they used to, I haven't checked in the last year or so). This is another good way to by audio gear through the mail versus in a store. The store is still much more efficient. You can listen to 20 different models in a fraction of the time that it even takes to research that many online.
posted by caddis at 7:20 PM on October 2, 2009
By the way, the higher the impedance the easier it is to drive the phones with a puny amplifier like an iPod. Sennheiser 600 phones used are in your price range and will have excellent bass with even an iPod Nano. HeadRoom wants to sell you expensive toys, but their reviews and advice are excellent and they will take back anything you don't like in 30 days (at least they used to, I haven't checked in the last year or so). This is another good way to by audio gear through the mail versus in a store. The store is still much more efficient. You can listen to 20 different models in a fraction of the time that it even takes to research that many online.
posted by caddis at 7:20 PM on October 2, 2009
Response by poster: It's really no big deal...with Amazon all I lose out is the return shipping.
Used headphones? Gross.
The impedance thing is the other way around...low impedance, better for iPods.
posted by kenliu at 5:29 PM on October 3, 2009
Used headphones? Gross.
The impedance thing is the other way around...low impedance, better for iPods.
posted by kenliu at 5:29 PM on October 3, 2009
Response by poster: I finally settled on the Audio-Technica ATH-AD700. They were a fantastic buy at less than $100 (MSRP $250) on Amazon.
The sound is pretty much what I was looking for - they have a strong upper-bass/lower-midrange that is perfect for playing bass...super comfortable, too. Of course, not as good as my UE-10s but way better than the Sonys and can't be beat for the money. I'm thinking of buying another set just for the living room :)
posted by kenliu at 12:04 PM on January 4, 2010
The sound is pretty much what I was looking for - they have a strong upper-bass/lower-midrange that is perfect for playing bass...super comfortable, too. Of course, not as good as my UE-10s but way better than the Sonys and can't be beat for the money. I'm thinking of buying another set just for the living room :)
posted by kenliu at 12:04 PM on January 4, 2010
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They derive these wonderful characteristics from their open-diaphragm design which unfortunately doesn't block ambient noise at all. Other than that, they can't be beat at any price.
posted by phrontist at 8:09 PM on September 1, 2009