December 18, 2004

11:31 AM

FortuneCookieFilter - I recently ate at a Chinese buffet and my fortune cookie following the meal was slightly confusing grammatically. "If winter comes, can spring be far behind?" I know what they are trying to say, but is this technically the correct way to say it?
posted by bakerwc1369 to (18 comments total)

Percy Bysshe Shelley thought so (see last line).
posted by thomas j wise at 11:41 AM on December 18, 2004

What do you think is wrong with it?
posted by grouse at 12:10 PM on December 18, 2004

The tense does seem a bit off, somehow. The juxtaposition of 'comes' and 'can spring be' makes it sound as if two non-complementary constructions of some sort are being used. But I can't actually come up with a reason that it doesn't work.
posted by bingo at 12:36 PM on December 18, 2004

I said the same thing bingo said at the same time...

Isn't it just mixing tenses? (comes is past tense, be far behind is present tense).

(Correcting the tense would create this sentence: If winter is coming, can spring be far behind?)
posted by sleslie at 12:48 PM on December 18, 2004

comes is past tense

Whaaaaaaaa? No it's not.

I think the problem is that the first clause is not subjunctive. Should be "If winter come, can spring be far behind?"
posted by kindall at 12:57 PM on December 18, 2004

It's perfectly fine as is. Hint: if you're trying to correct Shelley's grammar, you've probably gone astray somewhere.

Compare: If Dick comes, Jane's sure to be right behind him.
If Dick comes, can Jane be far behind?
Unless of course Dick's technique leaves a lot to be desired...
posted by languagehat at 1:29 PM on December 18, 2004

I was wondering about the joining of "spring" and "far behind" since spring comes after winter. I know they mean "far behind" in relation to the progression of time, but would it be proper to say "far ahead" instead? I bet I was high on MSG after the meal.
posted by bakerwc1369 at 2:36 PM on December 18, 2004

Oh, wind, if winter comes
Can spring be far behind?

Let's parse this out:

- Winter comes.
- Spring follows winter.

Therefore, if winter comes, can spring be far behind?
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:37 PM on December 18, 2004

kindall, thanks for whaaaaaaaaing at me. I'll give myself a 6 month ban from all English related AskMe posts, even though it's my mother tongue.
posted by sleslie at 2:49 PM on December 18, 2004

I got a fortune cookie once that said " Happiness will come to you shorty." Being that I am well over 6 foot, its no wonder I am often so miserable.
How's that for logic/english...
posted by BrodieShadeTree at 3:57 PM on December 18, 2004

yeah, the 'behind' sounds a bit odd to me too, since it's 'behind' in the future, which we normally think of as 'ahead'. It doesn't seem grammatically off to me so much as sort of conceptually juxtaposed.
posted by mdn at 5:25 PM on December 18, 2004

Depends on the answer I think. If "For not yet spring, then comest da fall" is your retort then no, the question is phased incorrectly. But if you want to shout "The spring doth set in Summer's Eve" at your waiter, then yes, the phrasing is factual. Just be sure to tip at least 20%. Hope this clears all that up.
posted by DeepFriedTwinkies at 6:31 PM on December 18, 2004

To my ear it sounds wrong mainly because of "if winter comes". Winter always comes. No if involved. A better phrasing in my mind would be "Once winter comes". No disrespect to Shelley intended, of course.
posted by smackfu at 8:06 PM on December 18, 2004

I think it might be the juxtaposition of "comes" with "can_be." Technically there's nothing wrong with having those two verb forms in the same sentence, but it's a bit unusual, isn't it?

Consider these, which both sound less awkward to me:
If winter comes, comes spring far behind?
If winter is here, can spring be far behind?
posted by bingo at 8:46 PM on December 18, 2004

Perhaps it's just me, but this particular construction doesn't sound odd or unusual at all. I can't imagine what would be technically or prosaically incorrect about it.
posted by majick at 9:36 PM on December 18, 2004

I wish I got poetic ones. My fortune always reads "This insert has a protective coating".
posted by flabdablet at 9:43 PM on December 18, 2004

languagehat, I wish you might write a book of observational grammarary with such examples as above.
posted by clockzero at 1:19 AM on December 19, 2004

Oh, wind, if winter comes, can spring be far behind {IT}?

See, that's why it's not weird. The "it" is understood, because it's a poem.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:02 AM on December 19, 2004