Help us Choose a breed/breeds

August 16, 2009 2:31 PM

What breeds of dog should my husband and I consider getting?

This is a bit of a fantasy question, as my husband currently lives in Virginia where he is finishing his phd and I live in Toronto. However, one day we are hoping he will a) finish his phd, b) find employment in my general vicinity, at which point we will c) buy a house with a yard in the suburban area near my place of employment. At that point, we would like to get a dog or two dogs. What sort of dog do you think would be best for us?

I work full time; my husband would need to go into work about 3 times a week and could otherwise work at home. If he happens to get a job at my school, he would be allowed to bring animals into his office with him. We both like to walk (he likes to walk very long distances from time to time). We have no children and do not anticipate having any. We are open to getting two dogs rather than one if it helps the loneliness when neither of us are around b/c of work. We are also open to rescues and mixed breeds.

I tend to fall in love with beagles (though I realize they are a little crazy and might not be a good fit for us) and English Cocker Spaniels (minus the rage syndrome they are prone to!); he has fond memories of bassets. We've watched a bit of animal planet which suggested to us that maybe we should consider a Cavalier King Charles spaniel, but my family tells me their brains don't fit in their skulls and they can suffer terrible pain.

My parents have never been without a dog, and his had dogs when he was quite young, but are now cat people instead. So we both have some experience with dogs, though I doubt we'd be ready for a very difficult dog. I currently have a cat (adopted at age 9), and would like to continue having cats in future.

Any ideas on other breeds/mixed breeds we could include in our whimsical future discussions?

posted by Hildegarde to pets & animals (40 comments total)

Try this wizard.
posted by halogen at 2:34 PM on August 16

That's great, but I get zero results.
posted by Hildegarde at 2:37 PM on August 16

Sorry about the repeat posts, but you and your husband might be interested in this BBC documentary about pedigree dogs (they talk about cavalier king Charles spaniels quite extensively in it, too).
posted by halogen at 2:38 PM on August 16

I've always been a big fan of the generic dogs that crop up when dogs are left to their own devices -- medium in every respect and largely devoid of the crazy defects that plague a lot of named breeds. Plus if you adopt you can save a dog's life, a nice bonus. If I ever got a large bit of land I think I'd get about 5 generic dogs.

I realize that at this stage dreaming about some ill-defined mutt isn't very much fun.
posted by Chrishartley at 2:40 PM on August 16

How about a retired greyhound? We got ours through the Greyhound Protection Agency Richmond Branch. Link

Ours came house broken and is basically a couch potato. You would just have to make sure that the proposed greyhound would be cat safe. They test all of them.
posted by nuke3ae at 2:47 PM on August 16

I once scanned through a copy of The Good, The Bad and The Furry: Choosing the Dog That's Right for You at my local bookshop; it seemed to be a well-organized and informative guide. I particularly liked the use of icons--you can quickly flip through and look for dogs that meet your specific needs (size, noise level, space required, easy/difficult to housetrain, grooming requirements, etc.).
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 2:49 PM on August 16

Get a pound puppy, the one that you fall in love with when you go in to look, whatever mix of breeds it is. If you love dogs, it's that simple. If you see dogs as fashion accessories or symbols of your cultural capital, then you shouldn't own one. Alas, that's how far too many people view dogs, and that's why the popular breeds are being genetically engineered into cyborg creatures. No way I would by a CKCS, for example, the most overbred dog on the market today.

This fascination with purebreds is the worst thing to happen to dogs ever. No breed really has an entirely predictable personality, and in any case breed temperament is less important than how a dog is socialized and trained. I've know sweet and gentle Dobermans, and vicious Yorkies.

It's not the breed of the dog that matters. It's the character of the dog's owner. Unless you have an allergy (which is in any case just an excuse used by all those halfwits who insist on a whatever-poo because they can't deal with a little fur -- which makes me wonder how the f**k they deal with the dog shit twice a day) the best dog is the dog you fall in love with in person, not the abstract breed.

The best dogs I've known in my life -- and I'm a huge dog fancier and have known many great dogs -- have been mixed breed dogs grateful for the chance to live with a family rather than die an ignominious death in the gas chamber. In the US (I'm sure it's similar in Canada) we euthanize (that is, kill) tens of thousands of healthy dogs a year in shelters. It's a moral crime and anyone who spends money on a purebred from a breeder is aiding and abetting the crime.
posted by fourcheesemac at 3:02 PM on August 16 [4 favorites]

Uh...I don't have a preference for a purebred, as I stated. I'm happy to hear about particular blends of breeds that people have had that would fit our circumstances.
posted by Hildegarde at 3:10 PM on August 16

Golden Retrievers are mostly easy to take care of, and very loving too. They love licking you, dirt, water, playing fetch, dirt and licking :) Summed up in one word: Love

We have a golden, and a Samoyed too. Sammies are harder to take care of (very dense heavy white coat) and are more highly strung than a golden, which leads to "bad" behaviour if not walked and played with every day. However, for a long distance hike, the Sammie wins over the golden for stamina. Sammies also are playful, vocal, strong, unique and loving. Summed up in one word: Joy

Seconding the pound puppy idea. Volunteer for dog walking duty at the local pound for a couple of weeks/months. You'll find a dog that you love, guaranteed.

Then take that dog to as many classes as possible, and to as many different dog parks as you are able.

A well trained, socialized dog is a happy, calm and friendly dog, whatever the breed or parentage.
posted by Danaid at 3:12 PM on August 16

Yes, you mentioned mixed breeds as a possibility. My apologies for not acknowledging this. I'm particularly passionate about this issue, obviously.

I grew up with a beagle/basset mix. It was perhaps the most intelligent, fiercely loyal dog I've ever known. She lived to 19, and died -- this is true -- the day I graduated from college (she lived with me at the time) as if she had been waiting to make sure I got launched in life.

Virtually any mix with lab or shepherd in it will be highly intelligent and loyal and easily trained.

My point is just that dogs are individual animals with personalities and souls, not examples of breeds. I have never seen evidence that breed is highly determinative of personality or temperament. True, some bark more, some shed more, some are natural herders, some need to run to be happy, etc. But I've seen people spend months picking the right breed only to get a dog they can't handle or didn't expect to be a certain way when they actually get their perfect animal.

In the city where I live, dogs are used as disposable fashion accessories. It sickens me.
posted by fourcheesemac at 3:19 PM on August 16 [1 favorite]

You don't want to hear about blends of breeds. Blends of breeds are random draws from a very wide lottery. As opposed to random draws from a highly restricted lottery. If you get a blend of beagle and cocker, you can get anything from a beagle that looks a little bit funny but otherwise acts just like a beagle to a cocker that looks a bit funny but otherwise acts just like a cocker.

If certain characteristics are important to you, that means looking at purebreds that tend to have those characteristics. Really the only time you can look at a puppy and reliably bet on its characteristics as an adult is if the distribution of traits it might have is highly narrow -- that is, if it's a purebred.

fourcheesemac, your thinking here is really off the mark. Even in your examples. Of course you would find sweet Dobermans, who have been bred for biddability over a long time. And of course you'd find nasty Yorkies, because terriers were bred for centuries to be vicious little vermin-killers with minimal human interaction. The things you're bringing up aren't in spite of the breed, they're the breed traits themselves.

Breeds absolutely matter if inborn behavioral drives, size, and exercise needs are important to you.

As well:

mixed breed dogs grateful for the chance to live with a family rather than die an ignominious death in the gas chamber

This is anthropomorphizing of the crassest nature. Dogs are biologically incapable of such feelings.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:22 PM on August 16 [1 favorite]

Virtually any mix with lab or shepherd in it will be highly intelligent and loyal and easily trained.

This is completely false. Any mix with lab or shepherd in it will have adult traits that are highly unpredictable based on its appearance and behavior as a puppy.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:24 PM on August 16

Hildegarde, I think the trouble you're having is that you're thinking of breeds you've liked instead of traits you want in a dog (and traits you want the dog to really not have).

What did you put into the search thing that got you zero results?

Also, I think you might be thinking of English Springers, not English Cockers. English Springer Spaniels (in the US anyhow) had a real problem with "springer rage," but the breed club acknowledged it and has been working hard to get rid of it. I don't know how much of a problem, if at all, it remains in the breed.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:30 PM on August 16

you and your husband might be interested in this BBC documentary about pedigree dogs

There's a thorough debunking of many of its claims here.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:34 PM on August 16

I put medium everything.

I guess you're right: I fear my love of hounds will lead me astray. I don't particularly want to have a dog that is constantly trying to get out of the yard to chase a scent, though I love their spunkiness and charm.

I think we're looking for a good companion dog who will go on occaisional long walks with us (my sister-in-law's corgis get worn out going a few blocks), but won't go nuts without 6 mile hikes every day.

My parents' herder goes bananas when there are non-family members or children around. Not too fond of that either.
posted by Hildegarde at 3:37 PM on August 16

Note that that search engine allows more than one value per trait, for instance you can search for Small or Medium with Medium or High energy.
posted by contraption at 3:54 PM on August 16

As a data point, I have two Basset Hounds, and neither has ever gotten out of the yard/house to chase a scent. Once our landlord left the gate open and both got out, but one was in the front yard and the other was three or four houses away. So you might be over-playing that particular hound trait.

(Also -- I love, love, love Bassets. They are fantastic dogs. They enjoy a good walk but won't go crazy without it and they're companionable and friendly. Very sweet dogs.)
posted by kate blank at 3:57 PM on August 16

The boxers, pit bills, and mixes of each that I've encountered have been sweet, fun, smart, loyal dogs (YMMV, of course, depending on the particular dog). I would adopt one in a hearbeat if I had the space and a landlord who allowed dogs. They can be high-energy, but the dogs I've interacted with of this type of breed seem fine with a couple long-ish walks a day.

Also: I'm not sure fourcheesemac gets his/her info; it is possible to have genuine allergies around dogs, and if you have allergies, there are some dogs that will aggravate them and others that won't, or won't as much--I don't know that there's a scientific way to determine that prior to living with a dog, and I don't necessarily buy into the whatever-poo hype, but I do know that I've seen my semi-dog-allergic husband go several days dog-sitting one dog with zero problems and several days dog-sitting another with much snuffling and wheezing. Someone else may have a better idea of how to determine allergy-aggravating dogs than I do, but it is something to consider if one or both of you have allergies.
posted by Meg_Murry at 3:57 PM on August 16

Weimaraners are great. We got an older male from the humane society. They are basically gentlemen's companions, very easy to get along with and fun to be around. We thought he was the best dog we ever had, and we have had many. Only problem was when we first got him there was a bit of a dominance issue. But after my husband sat on the dog a few times, all was well (no, he did not hurt the dog, just knocked him down gently and "sat" on him for an hour while telling him what a good dog he was).
posted by fifilaru at 4:00 PM on August 16 [1 favorite]

The boxers, pit bills, and mixes of each that I've encountered have been sweet, fun, smart, loyal dogs

Well, seeing as the OP is in Toronto, they'll want to avoid any dog that even vaguely has a reputation for aggression. Ontario has already foolishly banned 6 breeds including Pit Bull and American Staffordshire Terrier. The possibility that they'll add other breeds to the list in coming years is likely and they'll of course go for ones that idiots who want to look tough will get (dobermans, rottweilers, chows, etc.) now that they can't legally get the banned breeds. It may take 10 years but it'll probably happen and you don't want to have one of the breeds because the laws make it very difficult. For instance, I used to dog sit a very sweet American Staffordshire Terrier. After the laws came, it was impossible to take him to dog day care. You couldn't fly with him. Even going to a groomer was a nightmare. All companies that dealt with dogs would now say they were not insured for taking the banned breeds and therefore their services were off limits.

Anyway, I don't have a particular breed in mind but just thought I'd throw that out.

Me, I'd hit the pound.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 4:04 PM on August 16 [2 favorites]

seeing as the OP is in Toronto, they'll want to avoid any dog that even vaguely has a reputation for aggression.

Oh dear, I guess I should have thought of that. Sorry OP, in my area there are lots of pit bulls and pit mixes, so I forgot about the bans in other places. I haven't heard of boxers being banned, though.

Additionally, I don't know if this has been noted above, the choice isn't between a purebred (or even just specific breed among others in a mix--i.e., a beagle mix) or a pound dog. There are breed rescues for just about any type of dog.
posted by Meg_Murry at 4:18 PM on August 16

Two of my work colleagues each have a Jack Russel terrier. Several times a week, they bring their dog to the office. They walk their dog during lunch break. The rest of the day the dog sleeps in a crate under the desk. I hardly notice them at all.
posted by iviken at 4:20 PM on August 16

I tend to fall in love with beagles (though I realize they are a little crazy and might not be a good fit for us)

Why do you think a beagle wouldn't be a good fit?

My beagle is a howler, I'm sad to admit. That's really his only major downside. The rest of the time he is about as amiable a dog you could ask for. If you want to be a couch potato, he'll nap right next to you. If you want to go for a long walk, he's up for an adventure. He loves car rides, and only chases the cats occasionally. (They tease and stalk him more often.)

Because he has the short hair, his shedding isn't quite as visible as our other longer-haired dog, but his small beagle hairs wend their way into the weirdest places (my underwear drawer? the coffee pot? wtf??). I'm not sure if dog allergies are due to the actual hairs or to dander, so this may be a concern for you.

And I also agree with the idea of volunteering at a shelter if you possibly can, even if only for a few visits. Not only will you get lots of dog-time, but you'll make contacts with dog people, who can also provide good advice and will help you by keeping an eye out for dogs that might fit your criteria. They will also know the reputable breeders should you decide to go that route.

So yeah, to sum up: beagles = amiable companions in my experience, but may be hard to train.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 4:22 PM on August 16

Go to the pound and find a nice mutt. Both my dogs are mutts, and have been great dogs.
posted by Fleebnork at 4:37 PM on August 16

I would suggest making a list of major dog traits, both physical and personality, and determine what is important to you. That will help you narrow your choice of breeds. For example:

Size - Do you have a size preference? Larger dogs come with extra costs and space needs (ie. you need a big enough back seat in your car for them, they poop bigger, their food/vet costs will be higher).

Coat - Do you prefer a short haired or longer haired dog? I personally couldn't have anything with a long coat - I just don't have the patience for the cleaning it entails. ALL dogs shed, but I prefer short-coated dogs because I find it easier on housework. Does your climate limit or favor certain coats? Long haired dogs also require more maintenance in the form of daily care and regular trips to the groomer.

Other physical factors - Do you mind a dog that drools? Brachycephalic dogs (smooshy-faced breeds like pugs, boxers, etc.) are prone to heat stress - will your climate/situation be compatible with this type of dog?

Barking - Some breeds can be yappier than others. Beagles in particular, as well as some terriers, are known for being very vocal.

Intelligence - Some breeds (standard poodles, dobermans, border collies) can be easier to train than others (pugs and boston terriers, for example, are notoriously hard to housetrain). More intelligent breeds often need more interaction or a 'job', or they can act out.

Socialization with people/other dogs - Certain breeds will require more effort to ensure they are comfortable with people/dogs than others. Protection breeds will require lots of socialization with new people, while terriers may require more work with other dogs. This is important to consider if you plan on bringing your dog around friends or to the dog park.

Energy level - Low, high, somewhere in between? Think practical - do you want your pet to be a couch potato in the house? Do you mind if he/she runs around and plays even after exercise?

Fore example I have dobermans, which fit all of my 'ideals'. I like larger dogs with short coats, I don't like droolers or vocal dogs. I enjoy having an intelligent breed that trained easily, but is very mellow in the house with adequate exercise. I spent extra time socializing my dogs when they were young to ensure that they would be comfortable with guests, and I can take them to public events without any concern.

While most dogs can be trained to be your ideal companion, each breed will come with its own challenge. What areas are you willing to work harder on? What traits would you not compromise on? I think if you sit down and think about the practicalities of the various dog traits and evaluate what is important to you, it will be easier to get good advice on what breed might suit you best.
posted by tryniti at 4:37 PM on August 16 [1 favorite]

I can second Golden Retrievers as we have one. We resuced him through a strictly-Golden rescue organization - so why a Golden? Because they are loving, easy dogs. This was our first dog together and I wanted to get a no-kidding easy kind of dog. I didn't want a challenge since I've never had a dog before.

That is the breed and we got that - we also got one with a stubborn streak and a penchant for barking at diesel engines. Each dog is different, regardless of the breed standard and it is important to get to know the dog first. This is why adopting a dog from a rescue organization can actually be a plus since they do a lot of the legwork to figure out the temperment of the dog, activity level, etc.

They got ours pretty much right on (except for the barking thing) and he has been a joy. He and I also became certified for pet therapy this year and have been visiting hospitals. He loves it and brings a lot of joy to people.

Goldens are truly wonderful dogs!
posted by Leezie at 4:41 PM on August 16

I think we're looking for a good companion dog who will go on occaisional long walks with us (my sister-in-law's corgis get worn out going a few blocks), but won't go nuts without 6 mile hikes every day.

My parents' herder goes bananas when there are non-family members or children around. Not too fond of that either.

I don't particularly want to have a dog that is constantly trying to get out of the yard to chase a scent, though I love their spunkiness and charm.

Based on these requirements, I would have to regretfully disagree with the suggestion that you get a Jack Russell Terrier. I say this as someone who lives with a (well-behaved, uncharacteristically calm) JRT. He is well-trained, good with my cats, and much easier to deal with than pretty much any other Jack Russell I've met, but he still has his moments. Jack Russells are often difficult dogs. They tend to dig and chew, they are intelligent and therefore able to get up to mischief, they need a LOT of exercise, and they can be aggressive with kids or small animals, including cats. They need a lot of training and you, as an owner, would have to be on them ALL THE TIME so they know you, not they, are the boss.

I feel like I have to mention this because I know many people who have gotten a Jack Russell because the ones on Frasier and Wishbone and My Dog Skip were so cute and smart, but then they were not prepared for the reality.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 5:10 PM on August 16

I absolutely love St. Bernards. They are sweet, loving, friendly, but most of all, mellow, quiet, and even-tempered. I'm obviously a fan of large breeds.
posted by VC Drake at 5:21 PM on August 16

I think we're looking for a good companion dog who will go on occaisional long walks with us (my sister-in-law's corgis get worn out going a few blocks), but won't go nuts without 6 mile hikes every day.

I just wanted to second the idea of getting a mutt or dog of indeterminate breeding. Some of the best pound puppies I've known have been ones whose owners had no idea what they were--but their owners took a trip to the local pound, listed the traits they wanted and the features of their household, and got dogs that were perfect matches. This is especially true if you're willing to get a young adult dog or a fully grown animal, because then you pretty much know what you're getting (though my mom's mutt Tilly has gradually mellowed since we adopted her at two, as dogs are prone to doing).

Seconding that Jack Russell's are probably a bad idea. My mother's other dog is a JRT. He's brilliant, naughty, nippy, and has a bladder the size of a pee.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 5:49 PM on August 16

That link that gave you the 0 results will give you 12 if you check all the boxes that I presume are okay with you if you initially checked medium for everything. Contraption pointed this out in less detail, but the problem seems to be that the search engine has no concept of "at least" or "at most" built into it. So, if you check medium for compatibility with children and with other animals, it won't return those that have high compatibility. If you check medium need for grooming, it won't return those that have low need for grooming. If you add those highs and that low to your mediums, you'll get the 12 results.
posted by daisyace at 6:00 PM on August 16

Oh, and I understand the draw of fantasizing about certain breeds--but if you decide to try and adopt a shelter mutt, you can replace that with looking at puppies on petfinder and visiting shelters which is much, much, much more fun.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:07 PM on August 16

fifilaru: "Weimaraners are great. We got an older male from the humane society. They are basically gentlemen's companions, very easy to get along with and fun to be around. We thought he was the best dog we ever had, and we have had many. Only problem was when we first got him there was a bit of a dominance issue. But after my husband sat on the dog a few times, all was well (no, he did not hurt the dog, just knocked him down gently and "sat" on him for an hour while telling him what a good dog he was)."

I have not exactly had this experience with Weimeraners...the ones that I have met were incredibly energetic to the point of being obnoxious.
posted by radioamy at 6:08 PM on August 16

May I put in a good word for Boston Terriers? We've had one for four years, and she's the easiest dog ever, not to mention an absolute cutie.
posted by Dragonness at 6:21 PM on August 16

May I interest you in a dachshund? They are energetic, smart, and hilarious, but their small size makes it easier for them to spend their terrier-like energy. Long-haired dachshunds are friendly and affectionate to strangers; smooth-coated dachshunds may or may not be, depending on the dog. (I'm not familiar with the wire-haired variety's traits.) Their attitudes to children vary by dog, but they generally make great companions for kids, assuming the kids are old enough to treat a small dog respectfully. Although they're prone to back trouble if they're allowed to climb stairs or jump from furniture, this is not necessarily their fate.

You'll hear that they're hard to housetrain, but once I got my puppy to figure out that going outside meant a treat and going inside didn't, housetraining was pretty much over. They're hard-headed but they know what's up.

Doxie rescue organizations all around the country can get you a purebred that needs a home without involving a breeder, and this is true of most other breeds as well. Doxies also -- hold on, I gotta go, mine wants something.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:22 PM on August 16

When you settle on a breed (or a mix) or some approach to choosing one, my primary advice is to meet the potential dog(s) for as long as you are allowed to or can afford to. Since dogs are so individual, you owe it to the dog and to yourselves to get to know any potential one for your household as well as you can before adding it to your household.

I am a huge dog fancier too. I have a non-breedable pedigreed dog (and the same condition holds for one of our cats - they're both non-breedable because they have flaws that make them non-considered for breeding or showing). I don't think it matters what kind of breed you get or whether the individual is showable or breedable or whether you get a mixed breed dog, so much as that you can love him or her and he or she loves you back.

Sure, select breeds (if you do) for the characteristics they're bred for an how you imagine they'll fit in your household, but do spend as much time getting to know the individual(s) you're considering.
posted by kalessin at 7:02 PM on August 16 [1 favorite]

The only problem with pet finder is that I will in fact find a mutt I adore and then I will have to get him NOW. Though this is likely what will happen; mixed breed from the pound captures our hearts, end of story. I have never met a dog whose breeding could not be reasonably guessed at, so I like getting a sense of the traits that come along with various breeds. At least that gives us a rough idea when, in a few years, go we pick up our mongrel. :)

For the record, I'm completely open to getting an adult dog. I did adopt a 9 year old cat, after all.
posted by Hildegarde at 7:03 PM on August 16

Disclaimer: I love nearly all dogs of all types and have had rescue mutts as well as purebreds.

How about a couple of Tibbies?

Pros:
--"big dog" personality in compact, durable body
-- low maintenance -- brush them once or twice a week, bathe now and then. Their coats don't hold dirt, are nearly waterproof, and don't shed hugely except once a year when they molt their undercoat
--not barky
--happy to take a longish walk but equally happy to bounce around the yard for a few minutes and then flop on a futon. Mine can walk for an hour and cover nearly the same distance as my 50-pounders
-- typically not clingy or nervous
--good with other animals and kids
--often catlike in behavior and demeanor

Cons and Quirks:
-- obviously not as athletic as a medium or large dog
-- can be aloof (I consider this a pro), but this varies: I have one standoffish (even with me) Tibbie and one social butterfly
-- climbers and window-watchers
-- sometimes obstinate in a charming but exasperating "you are not the boss of me" way where they selectively tune you out
-- can never ever ever be off-leash outside a fence. Very few Tibbies ever have a reliable recall, and they're faster than they look.

I love all my dogs, but Stewie is the one most likely to make me double over in uncontrollable laughter on a daily basis.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:03 PM on August 16

"And, in fact, we do see that risk played out in these breeds. Sussex with their low fecundity and heart issues, Cavaliers with heart and brain problems, Lundehunds with mysterious digestive issues and early deaths, Flatcoats with cancers that effectively cut the breed’s lifespan in half."

"I understand the drive toward predictability in type, but we’re facing a situation in purebred dogs where so many breeders have done this for so many decades that we have a super tiny gene pool even in the common breeds. This is a situation that is instinctively understood to be unhealthy by just about everyone who is not breeding show dogs"

ROU_Xenophobe - these quote are from the link you provided and it does not debunk, it agrees. And she's based in the US, where we have a larger gene pool.

That said, we should clone Stewie! A Stewie in every home!
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:27 PM on August 16

Regarding adopting a greyhound and long walks, remember that they are bred for sprinting, not distance or endurance. My stepdaughter's retired greyhound, a real sweetie, proved to be a poor companion for our +/- two mile daily jogs and practically had to be carried home... and the pace was only about nine or ten minutes per mile.
posted by carmicha at 9:16 PM on August 16

it does not debunk, it agrees

It agrees with a few of the points the show makes, disagrees with more, and roundly condemns the sensationalistic tone of the piece.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:58 PM on August 16