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August 15, 2009 9:46 AM

An eBay seller is threatening to file a complaint against me for not leaving feedback. What should I do?

I recently purchased an Amazon gift redemption code on eBay. The transaction itself went smoothly-- I sent them the payment, they sent the code, and I redeemed it without any problems. I had intended to leave this person positive feedback, but either due to laziness or procrastination I tend to put off leaving feedback until I can do a few of them at once.

Four days later, I get a message from them saying I have until Sunday (tomorrow) to give feedback and if I don't, they will file a buyers complaint with eBay and Paypal as well as send a holding notice to Amazon to prevent me from purchasing anything with the credit. Now, I know for sure the buyer can't use eBay or Paypal against me since there is a record of the payment, but is that holding notice at all plausible?

The seller also said that the "last person who delayed feedback ended up trying to scam me so this is a safety precaution." Even if this is true, I don't believe it's within their rights to try to muscle me into giving them positive feedback.

So, what's the best response here? Should I report them to eBay? Should I leave them neutral or negative feedback (not to be spiteful, but to warn other buyers of the intimidation tactics)? Or should I just cut the seller some slack, leave them positive feedback, and let it go? Again, I had no problem with the transaction itself and had intended to give them a positive before this happened.

posted by marchismo to computers & internet (41 comments total)

Just leave the feedback? Problem solved.
posted by Neonshock at 9:48 AM on August 15 [1 favorite]

I had a seller tell me that they'd only give me a special lower price if I left them good feedback in advance. I told them that was against eBay policies to sell feedback, but I'd leave them good feedback later, if the goods actually, like, arrived, and I wouldn't even report them for that.

They didn't answer, but they did send my stuff at the lower price.
posted by rokusan at 9:49 AM on August 15

I would leave negative feedback and explicitly state in your review that this seller tried to extort good feedback from you.
posted by CRM114 at 9:54 AM on August 15 [47 favorites]

Just leave the feedback?

Yeah, I always make a point of surrendering to bullies, just as a matter of principle.

I would take this up with Ebay. I don't know if it's allowed, but it sounds really un-cool to me. If you leave negative feedback, will they punish you by getting a holding notice? It sort of defeats the purpose of feedback if sellers blackmail people into leaving positive feedback.

After you've used your credit, I would leave absolutely honest feedback that says that the sale went smoothly but that afterwards they tried to intimidate you into leaving positive feedback.
posted by craichead at 9:55 AM on August 15 [1 favorite]

Talk about the whole story in your feedback comments. Include your phrase, "muscle me into giving them positive feedback" This is part of your interaction with the seller, so it counts.

As to whether to leave positive, neutral or negative feedback, ask yourself whether you would buy from this seller again. If yes: positive; if no: negative; if "it depends on how desperate I get": neutral.
posted by nadise at 9:55 AM on August 15

I'd leave neutral feedback of the kind you described. Like, "The transaction went smoothly, but this seller threatened to files complaints with eBay, Paypal, and Amazon if I didn't leave feedback."
posted by Nattie at 9:57 AM on August 15 [9 favorites]

Do as CRM114 suggests and file a complaint with eBay, attaching the evidence. Include the phrase "complaint filed" in the feedback.
posted by carmicha at 9:58 AM on August 15

Report them to eBay, the seller's response was over the top what with the threat to damage the value of the item you paid for.

I've gotten emails from sellers requesting feedback and the emails were polite reminders, not e-extortion, your seller's gotta learn to use honey instead of vinegar.
posted by jamaro at 9:58 AM on August 15 [1 favorite]

Negative feedback.
posted by caddis at 10:03 AM on August 15

Negative feedback.

This person has bullied you --- feedback exists to give people a sense of what to expect --- so you owe it to the eBay community to let everyone know that this person shouldn't be dealt with.

They CANNOT retract what you purchased because you refused to give feedback. That's absurd.
posted by jayder at 10:05 AM on August 15 [9 favorites]

You're under absolutely no obligation to leave feedback on eBay. In your position I'd report the seller to eBay, forwarding any correspondence.

Unfortunately, leaving negative feedback will likely cause the seller to leave negative feedback too; it's one of the flaws of the eBay system. The end result of disputing their negative feedback is likely to be that you both end up withdrawing your negative feedback, so nobody wins. A direct complaint to eBay is a better way forward.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 10:08 AM on August 15

nthing negative. I wouldn't want to buy from this person and if their feedback doesn't reflect this, it becomes untrustworthy.
posted by Obscure Reference at 10:17 AM on August 15

Didn't eBay take away the ability for sellers to leave negative feedback for buyers a while back?
posted by dilettante at 10:20 AM on August 15 [1 favorite]

You should leave negative feedback - that's what it's there for. Don't worry about the seller doing the same to you as sellers aren't able to leave negative or neutral feedback for buyers.
posted by JonB at 10:22 AM on August 15

negative feedback please, and report them to ebay!
posted by lia at 10:27 AM on August 15 [1 favorite]

Yeah, seriously, nuke the mofo with negative feedback telling this whole story. What's wrong with being spiteful when someone sends threatening messages? Be spiteful! Spite is the grease of the gears of commerce!
posted by paultopia at 10:41 AM on August 15 [2 favorites]

I slapped a seller into the next century with some feedback I recently posted --- damn it felt good.
posted by jayder at 10:54 AM on August 15

I'd mention that the transaction went smoothly and you intended to leave positive feedback until you got an email from them that read "[copy and paste email here]"

That way others can decide if they'd like to do business with these people or not.

And I'd tattle to ebay.
posted by cestmoi15 at 10:58 AM on August 15

I had to leave a negative feedback once, but the field wasn't long enough to capture the problem. So, I left a few words that hinted at the much bigger problem, then something like "contact me to see photos" (which in your case, would be "contact me to see extortion emails"). Surprisingly, people who were considering a purchase with the vendor and reading the feedback comments did contact me, even months later.

So, something to consider when you (hopefully) leave the negative feedback the seller deserves.
posted by Houstonian at 11:00 AM on August 15

I'd write them back and say 'i don't leave feedback until I've used the product.'

Leave pos feedback but write about the bullying.
posted by k8t at 11:07 AM on August 15

What kind of feedback does the seller have to date? Has the seller been on eBay for a while? Has anyone complained about him/her before? If the answer is yes, go after him with both barrels. Report him/her to eBay and make sure to use the phrase "feedback extortion" because that's exactly what the seller is trying to do. Repeated instances of feedback extortion on eBay can and do result in termination of the seller's account. If you try to use the Amazon credit and find that it's invalid, file a request for a refund through PayPal and a chargeback through your credit card company (if you used a credit card).

If the seller is new to eBay, it's possible s/he isn't aware that what s/he is doing is against eBay policy. If you're feeling generous, you can email a link to the appropriate eBay page and educate him/her. The seller's response should tip you off on what sort of feedback you should leave.

I've dealt with both kinds of sellers in the past: one was a newbie and honestly didn't know it was against the rules to push so hard for feedback, but the other was just an ass. I left positive feedback for the newb after he apologized (and thanked me for the link) and negative feedback for the jerk, because I felt it only fair to warn other potential customers.
posted by LuckySeven~ at 11:18 AM on August 15 [4 favorites]

sellers can no longer leave negative feedback for buyers, nor can they force you to leave feedback. I would fail to respond, and either leave no feedback or leave neutral/negative depending on your mood.
posted by Acer_saccharum at 11:22 AM on August 15

I'd leave neutral, saying that I was nonplussed with the pushy nature of the seller. If he/she pulls the credit, file a complaint with paypal to get your money back.
posted by TomMelee at 11:35 AM on August 15

Negative feedback. As sellers, they're powerless: they can't leave it back. And, hey, if they wanted feedback, they got it.
posted by luckypozzo at 11:41 AM on August 15 [1 favorite]

Fuck this guy. Fuck him right in the ear.

Reply with:

"If I were you, I'd seriously reconsider your threats. Extortion is illegal in this country. You never know who has a lawyer and police officer as an immediate relative or friend. Moreover, I've already contacted eBay, Paypal and Amazon in regards to this matter."

And then leave him negative feedback, that prick.
posted by jerseygirl at 11:50 AM on August 15 [6 favorites]

and if I don't, they will file a buyers complaint with eBay and Paypal

Saying what, exactly? That you didn't leave them feedback? There's no law or rule that requires anyone to leave feedback, it's completely voluntary. I'd report them to eBay AND leave negative feedback. And send them a message saying that you aren't responsible for whatever the buyer before you did or didn't do, and you're not going to be blackmailed because of it. And don't forget to tell him to fuck off.
posted by iconomy at 12:36 PM on August 15

Re-reading your question, I understand your concern about whether a "holding notice" can stop you from using the Amazon gift redemption code.

Could you be a bit more clear about how this code was actually conveyed to you once you purchased it? Surely it now resides in some sort of specific-to-you "account" and cannot be used by the seller anymore, right? How exactly does the code work?

Otherwise, it seems that you paid for something that, in order to redeem, you must rely on the good faith of the seller not to interfere with. Which I wouldn't think you would have done.
posted by jayder at 12:38 PM on August 15

jayder:

The seller sent the code via a private message on eBay. I then applied the code to my Amazon account, and verified that it was the correct amount. The credit can then be used on future purchases on Amazon.

Now, his exact words were that he would "send a holding notice to Amazon.com on the coupon and any item bought with it." I'm not sure how Amazon handles this sort of thing, but it doesn't seem very likely.
posted by marchismo at 12:59 PM on August 15

I had a seller ask (very politely), about two days after I received the item, to leave positive feedback because Paypal would not release the funds until I did. That was the first I had heard of such a Paypal policy, but I would not put it past them.

I had already left my + feedback by the time I read the message, so all was well.
posted by megatherium at 1:54 PM on August 15

So, I looked on the Amazon website to see if it was even possible for him to put a hold on your card. I see two possible ways that he could do this.

1. He could tell them he sold you a card.
From here: "Gift Cards cannot be returned, reloaded, resold, transferred for value, redeemed for cash or applied to any other account, except to the extent required by law. Unused Gift Card balances in an Amazon account may not be transferred."

2. He could say that he accidentally deleted the card, and ask for them to send him a new one (although I would think they could then find that it has been applied to you).
From here: "Please contact us with the following information....
We'll contact you by e-mail once we have canceled the original gift card and issued a new one."

Either way makes him assume some risk. The first option requires him telling Amazon that he broke their terms. They might cancel the card, but it is cutting off his nose to spite his face. With the second option, it might work or might not depending on how Amazon handles this situation.

So, weirdly, the thing that protects you the most is that he broke Amazon's rules.
posted by Houstonian at 1:55 PM on August 15 [1 favorite]

Use the credit and then write him negative feedback. Amazon has a really liberal return policy so you can always send it back.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 3:41 PM on August 15

I had a seller ask (very politely), about two days after I received the item, to leave positive feedback because Paypal would not release the funds until I did.

I had the same thing happen as a seller recently (I think maybe because I had two items sold but not shipped at the same time or something). PayPal told me they would hold the money until either the item tracking showed the item as delivered or positive feedback was received, or 21 days passed without a dispute.

So it sounds to me like this may be the explanation for the seller being so pushy about the feedback. Since there is no tracking number here, the seller has to wait the 21 days if you don't give the feedback.

Of course, that doesn't really justify them being as pushy as they're being (maybe they would have had more luck if they just explained their position), but maybe it's something to consider in whether you want to ding them for it.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if you do give them a neutral or negative and they try to retaliate even within the positive feedback (I once had someone leave me feedback that said something like, "Even though this is positive feedback, this person really deserved a negative"), you can have eBay remove the comment because it's against the rules ("leaving negative comments that contradict a positive rating" or something like this).
posted by dixie flatline at 3:48 PM on August 15

This may be more innocent than it looks. PayPal has adopted a rather abusive policy of holding funds from sellers with fewer than 100 feedback. In order to release the funds: A.) The buyer must leave positive feedback, or, B.) 21 days must pass without negative feedback.

I was put in this situation when I first started selling on eBay, it sucks. I sold a guitar amplifier and then PayPal put a hold on all of the money I received (including the shipping fee). I then had to ship the item out of my own pocket and wait for feedback. The buyer ended up leaving me positive feedback 26 days after I had sold the item, so the hold had already been released. This PayPal policy has been ruinous to some people's side businesses, especially businesses that deal in heavy merchandise where the freight charge is more expensive than the actual item (e.g. pinball machines).

Another possibility is that the seller is operating a feedback scheme, usually done with e-books or any item that relatively breaks even. They essentially farm positive feedback for a week or two, getting upwards of 1000 feedback and become an eBay Powerseller. This account is then either sold (for a profit) or used by that person to sell counterfeit goods, or other frauds, on unsuspecting buyers who see a 100% positive feedback score with over 1000 feedback.

My suggestion would be to ask the seller why he/she so urgently wants the feedback. It could be as simple as PayPal enforcing their idiotic policy on the seller, so essentially the seller is giving you something for free (you paid, yes, but they didn't get paid). If that's the case, I'm sure you can understand their desire for feedback. They went about it in a horribly unprofessional way and you should chastise them for that, just be aware that there might be factors outside of their control at play here and they are just reacting the only way they think they can, and doing it rather stupidly.
posted by Mijo Bijo at 4:07 PM on August 15

Mijo Bijo, I don't get that.

"Please leave me feedback; it's important vis-a-vis PayPal" is a reasonable request.

"If you don't leave me feedback, I'm tattling on you and filing a groundless complaint" is spectacularly shitty behavior, and it does not deserve positive feedback.

I'd just forward the whole correspondence to eBay and PayPal if it were me.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:12 PM on August 15

It's interesting to know what might be happening, from someone who is an eBay seller. But, it doesn't match with what this seller told the poster: "last person who delayed feedback ended up trying to scam me so this is a safety precaution."

If the eBay seller in question has been having problems with getting prompt payment from PayPal, he can either not use PayPal, or he can clearly explain the issue to buyers.

Even assuming the most charitable explanation for the seller's desire for feedback does not excuse such poor customer service that it is, essentially, extortion. The poster has done her part to be a good buyer: She paid for the item. The seller decided that the best way to end a transaction is with threats. At the very least, this should result in negative feedback.

Perhaps negative feedback provided quickly, so he can get his payment right away.
posted by Houstonian at 4:43 PM on August 15 [1 favorite]

If you feel pressured, and it seems that you do, you could always leave neutral feeback stating that the transaction itself was good, but that you had issues with the seller when you didn't provide timely feedback. Kind of a cop-out, but there you are.

I would also ask eBay specifically what you should be doing, as I don't think you are obligated to leave feedback. I've been remiss leaving feedback before, but have never had anyone be abusive about it.
posted by KathMuse at 7:58 PM on August 15

Same thing happened to my wife in June. VERY pushy seller, threats issued - it was over the sellers' desire to get the funds released faster. (And in this economy, if it is someone selling their personal stuff, I can understand - a little)
posted by jkaczor at 5:22 AM on August 16

Wow, great information here guys. I had no idea about that 21-day holding policy with Paypal, and if the seller had mentioned that in the first place I would have been happy to leave feedback right away. However, as many of you have already said, threatening me was totally the wrong way to go about this. Ultimately, I decided to leave them neutral feedback explaining concisely what had happened, and report them to eBay. I can post further developments if any of you are still interested. Thanks everyone for your suggestions!
posted by marchismo at 5:32 PM on August 16

I'd definitely be interested in a follow-up, please post!
posted by iconomy at 10:49 PM on August 16 [1 favorite]

I notice that the ebay forums have at least two people complaining about buyers scamming sellers with gift certificate auctions. Basically the scam works like this: Buyer wins auction and pays via PayPal. Seller emails the code. Buyer redeems code, then makes an unauthorized transaction claim with PayPal, so money is returned to buyer.

About holding money, eBay says:
"PayPal will release the hold when the earliest of the following occurs:

the buyer leaves positive feedback,

3 days after confirmed item delivery* or

21 days without a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal filed on that transaction.

PayPal can confirm delivery. PayPal will confirm delivery if you use USPS, UPS, or FedEx to ship the item and (i) use PayPal shipping labels, or (ii) upload tracking information to PayPal via the transaction details page. This applies to US domestic transactions only."

It would have been nice for the seller to explain this in a quick email to you! It seems to me that sellers of gift certificates could just mail the gift certificate (or a piece of paper with the code written on it), thus releasing funds 3 days after confirmed item delivery.
posted by Houstonian at 12:34 AM on August 17

If this is the seller's reasoning behind it, he really went about it the wrong way and really made sure he came off as the grand champ of dickheads with the extortion.

Spend the Amazon money now and invite him, at his earliest convenience, to kiss your ass.
posted by jerseygirl at 7:11 AM on August 17