Help me actually cross the finish line...

August 8, 2009 10:51 AM

I'm running the Chicago Marathon in the start of October and feel vastly unprepared and undertrained. Looking for advice on how to approach the next two months.

Background: I've been taking my running training seriously for a little under a year now. Ran a few 10k races in the winter/spring and a mini-marathon in May. All went between moderately well and better than expected, despite being my first real road races since high school cross-country.

After the mini, I decided to run the Chicago Marathon. Both my mileage and quality of training has felt poor the last month, with me unable to complete the long weekend run and/or the medium-long mid-week run.

Details: I'm shooting for a sub-4:00 time, which puts my per mile at just over 9 minutes. I'm doing my 3-5 mile runs at 9-9:30 minutes, my longish runs at 9:30-10:00 and my longest weekly run at 10:00-10:30. Too fast?

I've only gone over 13 miles twice so far since the mini. This obviously worries me as I'm running out of time to build up a large stamina base. I've been trying to follow a combination of the Hal Higdon training novice and intermediate plans on his website.

I'm a vegetarian who eats vegan 95% of the time. But I do eat plenty of beans, tofu, soy milk, etc in addition to semi-regularly taking a multivitamin. My sleep schedule is relatively normal, at about 8 hours a night.

I'm doing very little other cross-training. A minimal amount of daily push-ups/sit-ups and walking the dogs a few times a week. I stretch well prior to each run, but not after. Post-run I usually have a smoothie/snack and/or dinner.

I'm feeling a pretty significant lack of confidence right now. Any and all constructive criticism on how to approach the next two months would be greatly appreciated.

posted by highfidelity to health & fitness (25 comments total)

I've only run 4 marathons, but I would think that if you give up your time goal and carefully build your long run so that you get to at least one 20-miler, that you can succeed. 26.2 and some of the other marathoners on here should be along shortly with better advice. But for me, if it's your first then finishing is goal enough.
posted by Mngo at 11:00 AM on August 8

Oh, and don't shorten your taper because of lack of confidence--you have to recover before the race.
posted by Mngo at 11:03 AM on August 8

Need your race times in order to determine if you're training too fast or not. Can you share a recent race time and distance?
posted by smalls at 11:19 AM on August 8

You still have time to get into shape to complete this marathon.

Your most important weekly run is your long run. If you can't complete it because it is too difficult at that pace, you need to slow down or intersperse some walk breaks. Were I in your position, I would concentrate on my long run, and perhaps a couple of shorter tempo runs during the week.

I think you probably need to reassess your time goal. Note that you aren't running your goal pace in any of your training runs, so it isn't clear if you are fast enough to meet the time. If so, you should be doing shorter runs faster than your goal race pace, keeping in mind that you need to hold 9 min/mile for 26.2 miles. Ideally you should be running your longer mid-week runs at very close to marathon pace. Only your weekly long run should be significantly slower than MP. The danger here is that if you don't recalibrate your expectations you will go out too fast and not be able to finish the marathon. It's a very common problem.

I like the McMillan Running Calculator as general predictor of what you might be able to expect from your marathon time based on previous races. I have found it to be optimistic, though, for longer distances. Another way to think about what's possible for you is to add up the times for your last 26 miles of training. Since this should include many miles at faster than MP, it actually gives you a pretty good idea of what you're capable of in sustained effort.

Good luck.
posted by OmieWise at 11:40 AM on August 8

Both my mileage and quality of training has felt poor the last month, with me unable to complete the long weekend run and/or the medium-long mid-week run.

Sounds like you've exceeded your recovery capabilities. Not being able to maintain intensity (running speed) indicates insufficient recovery from the previous workout. In the words of Sir Roger Bannister, "fatigue masks fitness". Reducing mileage by 40-60% every third workout is an effective way to prevent overtraining, you may need to take a few days off from training.

I'm a vegetarian who eats vegan 95% of the time. But I do eat plenty of beans, tofu, soy milk, etc

Whatever, how much protein are you eating? Research suggests that athletes need at least 1.2 g/kg of protein per day to just maintain nitrogen balance. Keep a food journal for a week to get an idea of how much you consume, supplement accordingly. Athletes are also known to have increased zinc, magnesium, iodine and iron requirements.

There are a number of crossfit participants who have been making noise about running marathons and ultramarathons with very low weekly training mileage (20 to 40 miles at most). Consider performing some cross training with lower body exercises like squats, lunges and deadlift variants. Maximal strength training increases aerobic endurance performance.
posted by zentrification at 11:57 AM on August 8

My mini-marathon time in may was just over 1:47. I haven't raced since then.

The training plan I'm following does have a step-back week built in every three to four weeks, and I am taking two days off during the week to completely rest.
posted by highfidelity at 12:22 PM on August 8

I think you probably need to reassess your time goal. Note that you aren't running your goal pace in any of your training runs, so it isn't clear if you are fast enough to meet the time. If so, you should be doing shorter runs faster than your goal race pace, keeping in mind that you need to hold 9 min/mile for 26.2 miles. Ideally you should be running your longer mid-week runs at very close to marathon pace. Only your weekly long run should be significantly slower than MP. The danger here is that if you don't recalibrate your expectations you will go out too fast and not be able to finish the marathon. It's a very common problem.

I thought that training times should be slightly slower than a person's hoped for race pace?
posted by highfidelity at 12:33 PM on August 8

As above, I'm sure someone with more experience will come along presently, but here's my two cents.

I'm training for my first marathon at the moment as well, and I was also following a combination of a novice/intermediate plan. I started feeling pretty terrible during my long runs, and then I pulled a muscle that put me out for over a week, so I missed two long runs. After that, I picked up a copy of Hal Higdon's book Marathon: The Ultimate Training Guide and it really helped me to realign my expectations for my training and ultimate race (the Royal Victoria Marathon on Oct. 11). One of the most important things he emphasizes is that it is far better to show up undertrained on race day than to hurt yourself and miss the race altogether, which is what he argues happens to most folks training themselves (myself included).

After reading the whole book twice (it's great and I think worth the investment) I reevaluated everything. Even though I've been running for about 10 years (mostly 5Ks and 10Ks) and cycle frequently, I completely ditched all the intermediate stuff and dropped my weekly mileage to what Higdon recommends in the Novice plan. The idea that for a first marathon the entire goal is begin the race in good shape and end in good shape, no matter the time at all, really stuck with me.

Again, I'm training for my first as well, so I'm interested to see what everyone else has to say as well. My advice would be to reduce your weekly mileage, forget the tempo runs (or at least make them more infrequent) and concentrate on feeling in shape for the starting line. Best of luck with the training!
posted by scdjpowell at 12:35 PM on August 8

OmieWise has good advice - the McMillan calculator is a great way to get your training paces (that's what I would have done with your race times). However, it's generally accurate for experienced runners doing 55+++ miles per week. So use the training paces, drop your time goals, and stick with higdon's novice plan. Concentrate on covering the distances over anything else, and remember that as a first time marathoner, you're building the endurance to complete 26.2 miles - time is secondary.

I'm doing Higdon intermediate for a race on the same day, so I know this week is a recovery week for us. If you didn't do your 10 miler today, get it in tomorrow. If you did the 13 miler last week then you should be on track with the program's build for the 20 miler.
posted by smalls at 12:35 PM on August 8

Given that you can't complete your longer runs, the step back week every 3-4 weeks and two days off a week is insufficient recovery time, increase it.
posted by zentrification at 1:09 PM on August 8

I would think that [...] you [should] give up your time goal and carefully build your long run[.]

This. Finishing a marathon without injuring yourself should be your first goal. If you plan on making a habit of running marathons then there's no need to set yourself up for disappointment. If you only plan on ever running one marathon, who cares when you finish?
posted by GPF at 1:31 PM on August 8

Drop your time goal. Everyone else has given you a good reason for it already, but this is your first marathon! You want to feel excited and accomplished when you cross that finish line, because DUDE: TWENTY SIX POINT TWO MILES. Under no circumstances do you want your first post-race feeling to be disappointment when you look up at the clock and wish you'd done it faster. Just erase the time goal from your mind and get yourself proudly across that finish line. Finishing is enough, for Marathon #1.

Also, I eat a pretty similar diet to yours, and I found that once I started actively tracking my protein intake, it wasn't anywhere near as high as I thought it was, or as high as it needed to be. Getting more protein in — and I'm still probably not getting enough — made my legs feel a little less heavy and tired.
posted by adiabat at 3:09 PM on August 8

I have read the Higdon book, which I love. That is where I got the impression that one was supposed to run the weekly mid-long runs at a slower pace than the planned-for marathon pace.

I know I should let go of my attachment to my time goal, but I really thought 4:00 hours was doable based on my mini time. I definitely would rather finish slower than not at all though.
posted by highfidelity at 3:39 PM on August 8

I really thought 4:00 hours was doable based on my mini time.

If you're anything like me (undertrained for my first marathon) your worst split times will be at the end of the race, thus predicting times from short races will be totally misleading. Nthing the others as to giving up time goals.
posted by Obscure Reference at 4:32 PM on August 8

I'm a slightly pudgy woman. As a runner, I'm a dilettante at best with only a few shorter races under my belt, yet I took it into my head to run my first marathon. I trained for two months, total, with my longest run being 8 miles. My goal was simply to complete the race; I made it in 5.5 hours without injury (but seriously sore). The last 10K took me nearly as long as the first 20K. My point is that 1) if I, in all my pudgy slowness, can finish the race, you definitely can given your current (impressive!) level of fitness; and 2) marathons are easily underestimated: they are ass-kicking machines, I know now. So focus on YOU, staying in motion and un-hurt, and not on your time since you don't really know how your body will respond. Good luck!! You will be so proud of yourself.
posted by oceanmorning at 9:22 PM on August 8

So, I've run 8 or 9 marathons and qualified for Boston 'n' stuff, but my first one was terrible, at least in terms of pace. It doesn't matter -- I finished and the feeling was amazing. After that, though, I started to look at my training and what I was putting into it and adjusted accordingly, once I really knew what it takes to run 26.2 miles.

Becoming a solid runner is really a process of experimentation. You'll find what works and what doesn't over time, but the key to the first one is just to take it slow, keep moving forward, and have fun. Forget about specific time goals -- if you're in this for the long haul, there will be plenty of time for that as you evolve as a runner.

Of course -- stop back by and let us know how it went!
posted by ph00dz at 9:42 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]

Just to reinforce what everyone is already saying: I did the London marathon a couple of years ago, and I thought I would be easily capable of getting under 4h (based on earlier half marathon times). Not so, as I got up to longer distances, I realised that it wasn't going to be possible to complete the long runs at the times I thought. In the end I ran just over 4.40, but finishing the race still felt amazing.

Anyway, good luck, you can always run a faster one later...
posted by crocomancer at 6:16 AM on August 9

I've only run half marathons, but several of my running partners are serious marathoners, so I've picked up a lot of training tips.
Are you sure you're drinking enough water, both during your runs and generally? I really notice a slowdown if I'm chronically dehydrated. Summer is a hard time to be doing long runs--you need a lot more fluids than you might at another time of year (my major races were in July and August so I feel your pain). You probably want Gatorade or something similar after a long run too.
Are you trying Gu or some other gel during your long runs? If you're not yet, you should be. They make a major difference once you've been running for an hour and still have another to go.
Cross training definitely helps--work on squats, lunges, sit ups, and push ups. I find I run better when my core is really strong--if you like Pilates or yoga, try adding in some of that.
Finally, nth-ing the protein. It's really likely you're not getting enough. Can you add in some eggs and peanut butter and yogurt? Beans are not as high protein as animal fats, unfortunately. For some people it can be really hard to keep a vegan diet and be a serious athlete. It really sounds to me like you're just running out of gas and need to work on improving your intake--you'll just have to sort out what exactly you're missing. Start a food diary as Zentrification suggested above to figure out what, exactly.

You can definitely do this, especially if your throw out your goal time and just work on finishing. Good luck!!
posted by min at 6:06 PM on August 9

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I drink water almost constantly, I doubt dehydration is a problem, but I do need to look further into running food/gel. If anyone has any specific suggestions that would be great. Everything I've tried always makes my mouth feel clogged up.

I will definitely be keeping track of my protein intake and trying a little more core/lower body weight training based on this thread.

Thanks!
posted by highfidelity at 6:32 AM on August 11

I'd start with regular gu. It helps to have water to wash it down... I'm not sure anyone loves it, but for a quick hundred calories, it's good enough. Plus, it's not terribly expensive. The general strategy is to suck one of those down every 45-60 minutes while running.

My personal favorite food-ish item in this class is the Powerbar PowerGel. They're these multilayered gelatinous blobs... I dunno what it is about 'em, but the texture works for me. I also like the Cliff Blocks, but believe me, there are limits to how many of those things a guy can eat.

Really, though, all these things are just sugar, maybe with a little caffeine. Getting used to 'em before a race is kind of essential, though...
posted by ph00dz at 8:51 PM on August 11

Gu is kind of gross normally, but when you're tired it does taste better. The chocolate and coffee flavors are better, I can sort of pretend they are frosting! I like to take it a bit at a time, alternating with water. It makes my mouth less clogged if I take awhile to get through the packet, drinking water, than if I try to consume it all at once.
posted by min at 7:00 AM on August 12

Under five hours. Good enough for #1.
posted by highfidelity at 6:46 PM on October 20

Awesome... a totally respectable time. Thanks for stopping back by to let us know how it went!
posted by ph00dz at 10:48 PM on October 20

Nice work.
posted by OmieWise at 9:16 AM on October 21

Congrats HF!
posted by Mngo at 4:37 PM on October 21