Should I take a job in Baghdad?

August 8, 2009 8:47 AM

Should I take a job in Baghdad?

I'm a 27-year-old software developer who's fortunate to be choosing between two attractive and very different job opportunities in the middle of the worst economy of my lifetime.

The first option is my current job, which I started this week. I'm working for a small division of a large company, writing software for the intelligence community in Ruby (no, not Rails... plain Ruby). This job is awesome- my boss and coworkers are all the nicest and smartest I've ever worked with, the work is interesting, it pays about 110K/year (with decent benefits... I'm still a W-2 employee), and I work around 45-48 hours a week. The biggest downside is that because I found it through a recruiting company, I'm not technically working for the company itself- it's one of those arrangements where I work for the recruiter, who in turn contracts with the company. I don't have any problem with this financially- I'm happy with my compensation- but it means that I have a little less job security over the near term... the company has said that if they like my work (and I think they will) they'll hire me directly after the contract ends (they aren't lying, and the recruiting company won't stand in the way of this), but until that point, probably about a year from now, it's pretty painless for them to fire me or simply let me leave when the contract ends. I also am not completely a member of the team, for reasons that are no one's fault... I don't get to go to company team building events and the like, and can't be given quite the same level of trust.

The other job is one that I haven't actually been offered yet, but expect I will be in the few days (they've told me repeatedly that they intend to make me an offer, it's just a long process). It's a position doing web dev in Java in Baghdad (another position that requires a high level security clearance). I'd be working a bare minimum of 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, with no days off ever, other than a brief break around the 6 month mark, nor would I ever be allowed to leave the base. I'd live in a trailer, and eat military food. I'd make at least 250K/year (they know that's the minimum I'd accept, and it's definitely within their range), with free housing, food, and some tax breaks for living overseas. It would also be a fascinating, unforgettable experience, and it could open the door for me to do other gigs like this with the same company in other locations. The idea of working my butt off for a year (that's how long I'd intend to go) also appeals to me in a way. The position, if I took it, would start in November.

(Also, in my preemptive defense, I'm the farthest thing from a money grubbing profiteer- I traveled to NYC to protest the 2004 GOP convention and the invasion, vote straight ticket Democrat, and have lately been collecting signatures for Obama's heathcare reform. I've told people many times that I'd never work on weapons programs, and it's true; I believe that my work, done well, helps to prevent violence a tiny bit.)

As for why I'm negotiating with the second company when I just started a great job with the first- I pursued both of them at the same time while preparing to leave my last job, and the second company indicated that they probably wouldn't need me for at least 6 months, so I figured I could work for the first company during that time, and then leave (that's not nice, but because it's theoretically only a temporary position anyway, it's not as big of a faux pas as that would normally be). The second company just suddenly informed me that their schedule has accelerated.

The only other big catch here is my long term career plans. I'm not sure I want to be a programmer for the rest of my life; at a minimum, I want to get a master's within the next few years, and I also think a great deal about law school. Money could help with that. Other relevant details: I have little social life, and haven't been on a date in years (although I'd like to get out more and take better advantage of the DC area, where I live, I don't plan to get into any romantic relationships in the near future regardless of which job I pick). I also am a big open-source geek, and think that being able to do Ruby at work is awesome (my last job was Python and Javascript)... Java, not so much.

I realize this is a pretty complex, personal decision, and don't expect strangers on the internet to be able to provide a definitive answer, but I've been wrestling with it for awhile and am interested in whatever perspectives the MeFi community can provide. Thanks!

posted by anonymous to work & money (26 comments total)

It would also be a fascinating, unforgettable experience

But what would that experience really be? Forgetting the intensity of the working environment and the financial rewards, you'd be living in a trailer and never allowed to leave the base. That had better be one awesome base. What if all the conditions were the same, but the base was located in the Nevada desert, would it still seem as fascinating?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:10 AM on August 8

What's "fascinating" about being trapped on an army base?
posted by applemeat at 9:13 AM on August 8

Yeah, the question the two previous posters asked was going to be mine as well. Don't ever discount the value of a job doing what you love and with good coworkers. I'm unclear on what the benefits of the Baghdad job would be besides money, and you already make a crazy good salary in your current position. If you want to see more of the world, use some of that great salary you're earning to travel to places where you can actually talk to the locals and see the country.
posted by MsMolly at 9:21 AM on August 8

I'd be working a bare minimum of 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, with no days off ever, other than a brief break around the 6 month mark, nor would I ever be allowed to leave the base.

I've done similar deadline-approaching churns and it sucks so badly I can't imagine willingly doing it for an entire year on top of being restricted to a military base in a war zone. $250K isn't enough - demand $500K and then maybe the burnout would be worth it.
posted by cmonkey at 9:22 AM on August 8

Have you ever worked crazy hours like those of the job in Baghdad? Do you truly have any idea what it feels like to work 12-hour days, seven days a week, for months on end? It's not a question of "Will I miss my social life?" -- it's a question of "Will I lose my mind and cut somebody?"
posted by runningwithscissors at 9:27 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]

Personally, nothing less than 750k/year would get me to work in that location, under those conditions. And, as I am not young and single, there would be at least a two million "rider" in case of "death, disablement" due to the hazardous location. Not being a profiteer either, but my earning potential over "n" years and commitment to my family have to be measured into things.
posted by jkaczor at 9:31 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

Some ideas.

First, I'd try working 12 hours a day, 7 hours a week for at least a couple of weeks while at your current job. Maybe not working on work for the job, because that might read a bit wierd - but when you get home just put in another 3 hours of work each day (assuming you're working about 9 at work so far) on another project that's similar to what you're doing at work in terms of brain-drain and systems of thought (so you work the same mental muscles), and add another 12 hours each weekend day. I did 12 hours a day for 5 days a week for three months and it took a very real toll on me, mentally and physically - mood-wise as well as just making me tired. If I'd worked weekends as well things would have probably been significantly worse.

On the other hand, working abroad with the military will probably expose you to a ton of things you wouldn't otherwise get exposed to, and you may get a great idea of how things work over there, opening up new business opportunities outside of the strictly programming-centric world. And give you some ideas more interesting than law school - not that law school is a bad decision per se, but a lot of people end up regretting going. That said, I'd heed the warnings of others as well that 12 hour days won't give you much time, and you won't get as varied an experience being restricted to base as you would if you were able to leave.

Have you looked into what kind of risks, physically, you're running if you went to Baghdad? Experience and money are fantastic - not so much if you die. I don't know the risks, myself - could be very low - but it's something I'd definitely consider if in your shoes.

I'd tend to agree with the other posters that it sounds like the gig you have right now is pretty sweet, as they go. The money of the other job would help you retire earlier should you decide to - and you might want to do anything but work after the Baghdad job, if you take it.

Also - you haven't dated much. Are you thinking of engaging in some personal development, focus on yourself for a while maybe? You won't find it easy to do that while working so much as you would be in Baghdad.
posted by lorrer at 9:31 AM on August 8

I worked my ass off (like you would in Baghdad) a couple of years ago. I earned quite a lot of money, but I gained a lot of weight and it hasn't come off. At the then end of the project, it was quite an unusual feeling just walking down the street, drinking coffee and browsing in bookstores.

$250K is nowhere near enough to compensate you for your time, and if you worked just as hard in the States doing the same thing (such as contracting or running your own company) you would probably make more money.

The $110K you're earning now is more than decent. If you are working at a level where you can earn that sort of scratch at 27, even if you were let go from the project before your 1-year contract ended, you would have no problem picking something up.

Stay with your current work and don't go to Baghdad.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:34 AM on August 8

1) Profiteering... Would the job exist without the war? a) No? Profiteering. b) Yes, but it wouldn't pay a quarter million a year? Money grubbing profiteering.

2) Openly hostile war zone. Not much different from DC. DC Murder rate 69 per 100,000... Baghdad? 1 per 160.

Unforgettable? Absolutely. Fascinating? More likely harrowing.

Putting your foot in the door of a company when you're not even sure you want a career in the field? Not so premium. Especially when said door may be wired with an I. E. D.
posted by EnsignLunchmeat at 9:35 AM on August 8 [4 favorites]

My response was actually based on a conversation I had about a year ago with several co-workers, when one of them mentioned a 1-year contract opportunity in Bagdhad for about the same range $250k. Most of us came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth that much money - excepting a couple of young, single US guys on the team ;-)

Honestly - 250k is about what I could contract for here in Canada/US, let alone in a warzone.
posted by jkaczor at 9:37 AM on August 8

12 hours a day, 7 days a week, with no days off ever, other than a brief break around the 6 month mark, nor would I ever be allowed to leave the base.

12 x 7 x 52 = 4638 hours.

$100/hr.

Do the math.

But netting $300K after taxes and expenses would be hella worth it at your age. It'd make you set for life if you managed the money wisely.
posted by @troy at 10:29 AM on August 8

So here's the way the numbers work out, just the numbers.

Standard hours in a year for salaries is around 2000, if you're talking about working for a year 6 days a week 10 hours a day you're probably looking at working in the range of about 3100 hours.

Honestly, 250k really isn't that much in terms of hazard pay if you're looking at a direct numbers relationship and break it down to an hourly calculation, especially if you and the employer have an expectation that you'll be working more than a standard work week.

From a straight risk vs reward I think it's probably a little under what I would accept in terms of straight compensation.

With that said, it probably would be an incredible experience and there are probably other benefits that we're not taking in to account here.

What I would say is if you decide to do this is make sure you have a way out of both the employment and the geographic area if things start getting hairy, you feel that you can't do it any more or if the employer decides to downsize you. You want a means of getting out if things go sideways for any reason, and it probably means financial penalties being written in to the employment agreement to make sure they are motivated to help you get out if and when it's time.
posted by iamabot at 10:35 AM on August 8

But netting $300K after taxes and expenses would be hella worth it at your age. It'd make you set for life if you managed the money wisely.

That's what I'm thinking. I knew a family where the dad did a security gig in Baghdad for roughly the same amount in the half the time. Considering the tax-free part and free living for him, they were able to completely pay off the house and then some when he got back. I would consider that for the work of one year, you really can take your choice of jobs in the future since you don't need a high income assuming you don't just waste the money and save it.
posted by jmd82 at 10:43 AM on August 8

Yes. I'd take it :)
posted by the_ancient_mariner at 11:09 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

Wow. If you're spending that much time on the code, you'd better love the project. And I mean really, really really love it. It's going to have to be an all encompassing passion of yours if you're not going to burn out. Hopefully they've explained to you, in excruciating detail, exactly what you'll be working on, who you'll be working on it with, who your managers are, what kind of expectations they have for deliverables, etc etc. But if you've gone through all that and it still sounds good without any reservations, I'd take it -- but for A LOT more than the 250. You're risking your life here, never mind giving up all your freedoms.

Compare the two jobs. Job #1, at 110K. Lets say 48 hours/week. Assume you get vacations -- lets say 3 weeks a year, or an extra 6%. I'm not including any other benefits. 110000*1.06/52/48 = about $47 bucks an hour.

Job #2, In Baghdad, you'd be working a min of 84 hours/week. No vacations. 250000/52/84 = $57 bucks an hour. Really? Thats it. Okay, throw in free but shitty room and board. Still -- Dear god no.

Maybe for 200 an hour, I'd consider it...
posted by cgg at 11:33 AM on August 8

If I were you, I would do it.

• Overseas experience is worth a lot in the eyes of future employers.
• The exposure to different things will be a tremendous asset.
• Your US tax load will not be the same as if you lived here (they will explain this to you, if they haven't already), and your expenses will be almost nil.
• Take your significant savings and pay for grad/law school with cash or bank it for your retirement.

posted by Houstonian at 11:43 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]

If you're not a money-grubbing profiteer, don't take a money-grubbing profiteer's contract.
posted by aquafortis at 1:50 PM on August 8 [3 favorites]

I'd be working a bare minimum of 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, with no days off ever,

You'd better really love the work, otherwise your code is going to be shit.

I've worked close to thirty hours straight on code -- but only when I was fascinated by the code. And then I took a break. Doing 12 hours day in day out is a recipe for writing really crappy code. You'll spend the last four hours of each day so brain-tired that you'll screw things up, and have to spend the first eight hours of the next day just fixing your own stupidity.

Writing good code requires using your brain, and like any other body part, it gets tired. (Your brain routinely uses 20% of your blood sugar as fuel.)

You'll get out with your quarter million dollars, a bad case of burnout, and no respect for your own work. Good coders program machines. They shouldn't even try to work like machines. You'll end up in a fog of tiredness writing ugly, hacky, unmaintainable code that just brute-forces everything. And then you'll have to come back and maintain that crap.

This is not even mentioning that you'll be working in a trailer in war zone, unable to leave the base. That any manager would propose this indicates they don't understand how good code is written, so you're guaranteed the entire project will be a fucked-up mess, full of ancillary frustrations and deliberate stupidities (and the frustrations of security theater and military chickenshit).

Run away from this.
posted by orthogonality at 2:26 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]

If you're not a money-grubbing profiteer, don't take a money-grubbing profiteer's contract.

This.
posted by Jairus at 2:27 PM on August 8

Following anything other than your happiness will only take you to places you don't want to be.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 4:40 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]

A friend of mine just got back from an extended stay on a base in Baghdad. The live updates on IRC detailing the frequent mortar attacks were pretty unforgettable. I dunno about fascinating.

And seriously, 250k for 12 hours days with no days off? Did you even do the basic math on this? Assuming you're working the standard 52 week 8 hour days now, let's see how much this works out per hour:

110000 / 2080 = 52.88

250000 / 4380 = 57.08

Yeah. Don't be silly.
posted by cj_ at 8:12 PM on August 8

This sounds crazy to me because it's 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, with no days off, not because it's in Baghdad.

The Baghdad you'd be experiencing would very likely be pretty f-ing boring. I spent about eight months in the Green Zone last year (as a soldier, not a civilian), and I'm assuming you'll be either there or somewhere at Victory. Living in the Green Zone or at Camp Victory is not thrilling. These are large military complexes with plenty of amenities, but nothing remotely compared to living in "civilization." You will not see very much. Trailers and chow hall food are really not awesome. The heat, sandstorms, and other seasonal delights are not pleasant. And I also wouldn't necessarily count on interacting with too many non-contractor types.

Make sure that what you'd earn or where it'd get you in your career is worth an entire relentless year of that.
posted by lullaby at 1:31 AM on August 9

This is probably a derail but why in the world does a programmer need to be in a war zone? isn't this a perfect example of where telecommuting would be a great idea. Even if they had you physically at a state-side army base to ensure that the computer you're working at is secure, I can't see any reason why you'd need to actually be within range of mortars.
posted by jrishel at 8:58 AM on August 10

I agree with what everyone else said thus far: it doesn't sound like you'll get much of the facinating aspect, you will be constantly working and stuck on base.
I want to address the first part of your post. I am a contractor in IT and have been a subcontractor. I have been a direct employee. If you live in an at-will state like I do, you really don't have less job security than the people who are direct employees of your current employer. I don't understand them not including you in team building excersises. Both of my contracts have been, ultimately, with government agencies, so maybe that is the difference. I am included in training, team building (we have a day long retreat coming up that will be both contractors and feds. I understand being excluded from certain meetings and trust issues. But, basic team building should include you.
posted by Librarygeek at 10:37 AM on August 10

Just chiming in at this stage, but if I were your age, I'd probably highball the Baghdad people and ask 'em for 750K. If they balk, no problem, you're happy where you are. If they bite't, go, work yourself silly for a year then take 6 months off on the beach in Thailand or something afterwards, then put the rest of the money in a retirement account and never worry about retiring again for the rest of your life. You'd be able to quit the ratrace before you were 50 if you were so inclined, thanks to the magic of compound interest.

A year is nothing, for that kind of payoff.

On the other hand, if there's no beer to be had there, well, that would make the decision a lot harder, for me at least.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:23 AM on August 11

I did *almost* this and never regretted it.

By almost, I mean I wasnt in Baghdad, but elsewhere in the middle east doing this kind of work.

I did SysAdmin in the middle east for 12 months and my only regret was that I didnt do it longer.

Lets be frank. People are there for the money, not the scenery. You should gross around $250k-$300k ($91.4k tax free for 2009) plus free meals, free housing and free laundry. The food isnt horrible and it isnt 5 star; there's usually lots of fresh fruit and on the holidays, they try and make it special (we had lobster and shrimp for 4th of July).

Housing is usually a small dorm-style room. As a contractor, you should rate your own room and not have to have a roommate. Electricity is free as is pseudo-high speed internet.

Different camps/bases have different facilities, but they should all have something like:
- Gym - Ours had a weight room, treadmills, ellipticals and stairmasters. If youre looking to buff up or drop some pounds, this is an excellent time to do it. What else do you have to do?
- Post/Base Exchange - For those unfamiliar with the military, its like a small WalMart/Target/Tesco Lotus. They carry toiletries, DVDs/CDs, iPods, clothes, snacks, etc. Prices are comparable to the US and theyre tax free.
- Drinking establishments - These vary from place to place. We had Brits at our place, so alcohol was ALWAYS available (thanks guys!). Usually limited to 3 drinks a day.
- MWR - Morale Welfare Recreation - Rooms with big screen TVs showing American Primetime TV (House, Lost, etc), sports (NBA, NFL, MLB) and a movie channel. Some have dedicated game rooms with pool tables and/or XBox 360s/PS3s/Wiis.
- Fast Food - Yes, they have fast food. Usually Burger King, Pizza Hut and Subway, but they vary by location.
- Mail - Camps/Bases have post offices and most companies ship to APO/FPO addresses (netgrocer.com - YES, drugstore.com - YES, buy.com - NO!). Takes 10-14 days to get there.

Some places have swimming pools, running tracks, movie theaters. The planners for the camps/bases try to make them just like small US cities with as many amenities they can reasonably provide.

Back to the pay (the reason youre considering going):

$250k for living/working in Baghdad for a year is a little under what I would expect. Most of my associates (SysAds, CCNAs, Web Developers, etc) who did their time in Iraq grossed around $300k. $750k is not going to happen for this kind of work. XE/Blackwater maybe for going outside the wire and getting shot at, but not guys sitting in the A/C working on servers and workstations.

EVERYTHING regarding how you are to be compensated depends on the contract your (prospective) company has with the govt. Ask the company if you will be considered exempt (paid straight time) or non-exempt (eligible for time and a half or double overtime). Most companies now provide a breakdown of your "base" salary, broken up into hourly rate and adding things like hazard pay, perdiem (if eligible), etc.

I cant stress that enough - MAKE SURE YOU KNOW HOW YOU WILL BE PAID!

If anything isnt clear, ASK. If they want you to sign a contract (not unreasonable), make sure EVERYTHING is spelled out. Most companies will pay for you to go over there, but if you cave after 3-4 months there, you have to pay your own way home.


Bad stuff:

Yes, there is a reason youre getting paid crazy money there.

1 - Hostile fire. Yes, there are Iraqis who dont appreciate the American presence there and express this by shooting at the soldiers and firing mortars at their bases. If you are lucky, this doesnt happen where you are based, but everyone is issued protective gear (body armor, helmet, gas mask, etc) just in case.
2 - 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for 12 months (with a break after 6)
3 - Boredom. Sometimes you get off work and dont want to do anything. Hopefully the base you are working at has a lot of the aforementioned amenities but not all do.
4 - No sex. General Order 1 prohibits sexual contact between people there. Not that THAT stops anyone from getting their groove on, but if caught, you could be fired.

Me personally, I wish I had stayed there longer. I took a 4 week vacation after 6 months, flew first class to Thailand and did nothing but sit on the beach and drink margaritas. After my 12 months, I wasnt looking at leaving, but a near-dream job opened up so I went ahead and left.

I hope this was of some help. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Good Luck!
posted by Fiat124 at 1:14 AM on August 17 [1 favorite]