How to learn to be a better mentor/supervisor to teenagers?
August 7, 2009 8:34 PM Subscribe
How to learn to be a better mentor/supervisor to teenagers?
I have become involved, somewhat unwillingly, in a 'leaders in training' program at one of my workplaces. There are 14-16 year olds who I must supervise on the job, write evaluations for, and integrate into programs I am running. I really struggle with this part of my job. I find it annoying when they ignore/don't listen to simple instructions, and although I try and remind myself that most of them have never had jobs before, I get impatient with them when they struggle sometimes with basic workplace skills such as following a direction without talking back, or being where they are supposed to be at specific times. For example, today we had to have a talk with one of them about lunchtime, he is expected to be there with his group and he did not want to go. He told me to stop asking him because it was his choice, and I had to explain that others were expecting him and that I was accountable to them if he did not go. So it is his choice to eat or not once he gets there, but it is not really his choice to go or not...
I will probably be getting two more students next week. This is an aspect of my work with this organization that I have identified as an area in my own self-evaluation that I would like to improve upon. I would like to be more patient, to help them be productive and have a good experience, to be a better mentor who can help them get something out of the program. But all my previous 'leadership experience' has been as a teacher to pre-school children, where there is no doubt at all that I am the adult in charge and they will do what I tell them :) Supervising other people in their jobs is new for me and I am not enjoying it as much. Any tips or suggestions you can offer me?
I have become involved, somewhat unwillingly, in a 'leaders in training' program at one of my workplaces. There are 14-16 year olds who I must supervise on the job, write evaluations for, and integrate into programs I am running. I really struggle with this part of my job. I find it annoying when they ignore/don't listen to simple instructions, and although I try and remind myself that most of them have never had jobs before, I get impatient with them when they struggle sometimes with basic workplace skills such as following a direction without talking back, or being where they are supposed to be at specific times. For example, today we had to have a talk with one of them about lunchtime, he is expected to be there with his group and he did not want to go. He told me to stop asking him because it was his choice, and I had to explain that others were expecting him and that I was accountable to them if he did not go. So it is his choice to eat or not once he gets there, but it is not really his choice to go or not...
I will probably be getting two more students next week. This is an aspect of my work with this organization that I have identified as an area in my own self-evaluation that I would like to improve upon. I would like to be more patient, to help them be productive and have a good experience, to be a better mentor who can help them get something out of the program. But all my previous 'leadership experience' has been as a teacher to pre-school children, where there is no doubt at all that I am the adult in charge and they will do what I tell them :) Supervising other people in their jobs is new for me and I am not enjoying it as much. Any tips or suggestions you can offer me?
"There are 14-16 year olds who I must supervise on the job, write evaluations for, and integrate into programs I am running... I try and remind myself that most of them have never had jobs before ... they struggle sometimes with basic workplace skills"
"I will probably be getting two more students next week."
So are these kids employees, or students under your care? Employer relationships are fairly simple, especially for highly regulated people like this age group. They work a very modest number of hours a week, and have very few employment options. If they're not working out, write them up, you let them go, or cut their hours. Consequences.
If these are students in a leadership program, well I don't know what to say. When I was in scouts, it was generally other scouts who were in charge. You enroll other people to help you maintain control, and only step in when things are clearly failing. Scouting is mostly a volunteer thing, so some of the "I don't want to" stuff solves itself.
Leadership is getting other people to do things, and takes many forms. Leadership by example, leadership by incentives and punishment, and leadership by persuasion, and leadership by command. The last of these is the least effective, but seems to be your impression of how leadership should be.
posted by pwnguin at 9:16 PM on August 7, 2009
"I will probably be getting two more students next week."
So are these kids employees, or students under your care? Employer relationships are fairly simple, especially for highly regulated people like this age group. They work a very modest number of hours a week, and have very few employment options. If they're not working out, write them up, you let them go, or cut their hours. Consequences.
If these are students in a leadership program, well I don't know what to say. When I was in scouts, it was generally other scouts who were in charge. You enroll other people to help you maintain control, and only step in when things are clearly failing. Scouting is mostly a volunteer thing, so some of the "I don't want to" stuff solves itself.
Leadership is getting other people to do things, and takes many forms. Leadership by example, leadership by incentives and punishment, and leadership by persuasion, and leadership by command. The last of these is the least effective, but seems to be your impression of how leadership should be.
posted by pwnguin at 9:16 PM on August 7, 2009
Did you have any kind of orientation for these teens when they started? It sounds like some of them don't really understand what is expected of them at a workplace. When your two new students start, I'd suggest you have group session where you get them to come up with what they think might be expected of them at a workplace. Then you 1) fill in anything they may have overlooked and 2) lead a group discussion on why these things are important in a workplace, how they can best meet these expectations, etc.
That way the expectations will be clear, and after the orientation, whenever one of them talks back or tries to argue with you when you give directions, you can refer back to that group session. "Remember when we talked about the appropriate way to respond when a supervisor asks you to do something?"
Good luck. It can be very difficult supervising people who are new to the work force, but you are really doing them a valuable service by providing a gentle and patient introduction to the world of work. They will fare better in their future jobs than their compatriots who have never learned about workplace expectations.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 9:25 PM on August 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
That way the expectations will be clear, and after the orientation, whenever one of them talks back or tries to argue with you when you give directions, you can refer back to that group session. "Remember when we talked about the appropriate way to respond when a supervisor asks you to do something?"
Good luck. It can be very difficult supervising people who are new to the work force, but you are really doing them a valuable service by providing a gentle and patient introduction to the world of work. They will fare better in their future jobs than their compatriots who have never learned about workplace expectations.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 9:25 PM on August 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Sorry, but I'm already somewhat confused. Your teenaged 'leaders in training' are required to take their lunch in a particular place with a particular group of people? This is like high school, but not very much like actual grownup employment, in my experience, at least. Whoever hires these kids should be communicating any and all expectations to them very clearly, and if that's not happening before they reach you, you should certainly do your best to make sure they know what they've gotten themselves into when you begin supervising them.
Teenagers, especially youngish teenagers, are generally in the business of questioning any and all authority. Yes, it's true that working with this age group doesn't have the same immediate rewards as working with preschoolers, who are wont to shower you with completely undeserved adoration. Teens are going to want to make you work for even the basic respect that you believe that you are due. But do you really want to live in a world where unquestioning preschoolers grow into unquestioning adults? Teenaged rebellion can be a healthy stage of life. Model genuine and thoughtful maturity and you will be paid back in the same coin, even if the investment takes some time to be realized.
posted by mayhap at 9:27 PM on August 7, 2009
Teenagers, especially youngish teenagers, are generally in the business of questioning any and all authority. Yes, it's true that working with this age group doesn't have the same immediate rewards as working with preschoolers, who are wont to shower you with completely undeserved adoration. Teens are going to want to make you work for even the basic respect that you believe that you are due. But do you really want to live in a world where unquestioning preschoolers grow into unquestioning adults? Teenaged rebellion can be a healthy stage of life. Model genuine and thoughtful maturity and you will be paid back in the same coin, even if the investment takes some time to be realized.
posted by mayhap at 9:27 PM on August 7, 2009
I think you've probably touched on something with recognizing the difference between your experience with small children and the older children you're dealing with now. With older children, who have formed some critical thinking of their own, I think it really helps to make it clear why what you're putting them through is important. They're like slightly hornier, less rational versions of you, and so they want to know if this is a waste of their time. To many, this program is probably the equivalent of your sitting through a meeting that keeps you from actual work.
So, is what you're putting them through valuable or a waste of time? You need to make it valuable. Time is money (or something of equally great value), and even teenagers don't want to waste it, in general, and they get grumpy and belligerent if they do.
I'm 22, and I remember as a teenager I had to go through a few "character counts" and "leadership" classes/programs. The concepts in those classes still make me want to pluck my own eyeballs out. I can safely say that was a bunch of unrealistic, social engineering bullshit, even if the intentions were good. I knew it then. I know it now. If your program is in any way similar to those I went through, it's highly emotive and hardly practical, and the way you're taught to talk to these young people is as if they're dumb as bricks. If it is this way, I suggest making it less touchy-feely, more practical and more challenging/intelligent.
What are some of the activities and/or worksheets you have to take these kids through? Do you have the option of throwing the truly bad ones out or getting creative with the good ideas, or are you having to follow a set curriculum? The latter will be trickier.
You haven't given much detail of the program, but have you asked about these kids' interests and whether any of them want to make businesses out of them? I think you'd find at least some who do. You can also ask how many want to be managers in a workforce, rather than just "typical" employees. Asking these two questions, you'll probably get a majority of students; some will still feign disinterest, but they'll actually be listening, in all likelihood. Maybe try looking at the important of leadership skills from these angles of owning businesses or managing others in a business? That will make it more practical.
Again, how much leeway do you have with this? And how long does the program last for these kids? If enough, you could create some really fun and interesting activities, I think, that would actually be valuable to them.
posted by metalheart at 9:32 PM on August 7, 2009
So, is what you're putting them through valuable or a waste of time? You need to make it valuable. Time is money (or something of equally great value), and even teenagers don't want to waste it, in general, and they get grumpy and belligerent if they do.
I'm 22, and I remember as a teenager I had to go through a few "character counts" and "leadership" classes/programs. The concepts in those classes still make me want to pluck my own eyeballs out. I can safely say that was a bunch of unrealistic, social engineering bullshit, even if the intentions were good. I knew it then. I know it now. If your program is in any way similar to those I went through, it's highly emotive and hardly practical, and the way you're taught to talk to these young people is as if they're dumb as bricks. If it is this way, I suggest making it less touchy-feely, more practical and more challenging/intelligent.
What are some of the activities and/or worksheets you have to take these kids through? Do you have the option of throwing the truly bad ones out or getting creative with the good ideas, or are you having to follow a set curriculum? The latter will be trickier.
You haven't given much detail of the program, but have you asked about these kids' interests and whether any of them want to make businesses out of them? I think you'd find at least some who do. You can also ask how many want to be managers in a workforce, rather than just "typical" employees. Asking these two questions, you'll probably get a majority of students; some will still feign disinterest, but they'll actually be listening, in all likelihood. Maybe try looking at the important of leadership skills from these angles of owning businesses or managing others in a business? That will make it more practical.
Again, how much leeway do you have with this? And how long does the program last for these kids? If enough, you could create some really fun and interesting activities, I think, that would actually be valuable to them.
posted by metalheart at 9:32 PM on August 7, 2009
To other MeFites: I get the impression that this is just a program (maybe connected to a school?), not the beginning of a job placement. I'm assuming this, because there are such young teens involved (14). This would also explain the strict structuring for lunch and all that. Is this right, OP?
posted by metalheart at 9:34 PM on August 7, 2009
posted by metalheart at 9:34 PM on August 7, 2009
Try to evaluate the situation from their point of view.
Are they there because 1) they want to be there, 2) they're 'supposed' to be there, or 3) they're made to be there.
If it's 1, there's not much you can do, and obviously, they don't actually want to be there. Write them off, if they ask you for evaluations or letter of recommendation, be honest about what you observed about them. Spend your time with the kids who are actually interested in the program.
If 2, who's responsible for them being there, and what are the perceived benefits of them being in the program? Liase with the people who expect these kids to be in the program.
If 3, no skin off your back, you can report the behavior to the 'authority,' and write these kids off.
posted by porpoise at 12:14 AM on August 8, 2009
Are they there because 1) they want to be there, 2) they're 'supposed' to be there, or 3) they're made to be there.
If it's 1, there's not much you can do, and obviously, they don't actually want to be there. Write them off, if they ask you for evaluations or letter of recommendation, be honest about what you observed about them. Spend your time with the kids who are actually interested in the program.
If 2, who's responsible for them being there, and what are the perceived benefits of them being in the program? Liase with the people who expect these kids to be in the program.
If 3, no skin off your back, you can report the behavior to the 'authority,' and write these kids off.
posted by porpoise at 12:14 AM on August 8, 2009
... too quick;
This approach, in my experience, seems to work - in situation 1, the rebellious feel excluded from the group (assuming that the people who, for example, stay for lunch are having fun and this involves some creativity from the supervisor; ie., I was at a daycamp and lunches were provided and the kids were whining about what they didn't like; I got them to do an exchange program. Another example, I was co-teaching a group of grade 10-ish in a biotech outreach program; my co-presenter was pretty uptight during the morning session, I shot the shit with the kids who showed up early after lunch and played up a story about Kary Mullis being high on LSD while driving home from a party with his girlfriend when he had his insight on PCR - which is mostly* true).
ANYway, it's important to recruit the enthusiastic. The recalcitrant want attention; when you make yourself the attention or the majority of the group the main attraction, that'll draw the black sheep back in.
I've also had some success in situations where the not-so-enthusiastic band together in a group. The trick is to identify that group early, and pay attention to them. ie., again another co-instructional program; highschool class, three self-selected teams. First 'activity' was to determine group names. Two groups came up with -whatever- imaginative names, the problem group didn't work to figure out names and when asked, murmered and hawmed until one of them read off 'Tyvek Tubing' from the... Tyvek Tubing hose that connected the aspirator to the flask. Hushed talked with the co-instructor, made the eye-wrinkle "trust me," talked in specifics about how the other two team names were neat and imaginative, and then did a short spiel about "observational skills are really important in science" and Tyvek Tubing just sounds pretty cool and got into a fake argument with the co-instructor and did a 'best of three rock-paper-scissor" thing and got the Tyvek Tubing Team to be the first on the board (there were ongoing 'games' that teams competed for points).
Team Tyvek Tubing were the first ones to come back after the lunch break to talk, and ... I can't remember if they ended up getting the most points (I don't think so), but I think that they got a lot more, and ended up understanding a lot more (because I hung around and <gasp> they asked about the specifics of how stuff worked and I answered them; I bet that they still laugh at CSI) out of the stuff we were doing (getting cell samples from themselves, isolating DNA, doing a PCR to do a 'DNA fingerprint') than the other two teams.
*for certain values of mostly
posted by porpoise at 12:34 AM on August 8, 2009
This approach, in my experience, seems to work - in situation 1, the rebellious feel excluded from the group (assuming that the people who, for example, stay for lunch are having fun and this involves some creativity from the supervisor; ie., I was at a daycamp and lunches were provided and the kids were whining about what they didn't like; I got them to do an exchange program. Another example, I was co-teaching a group of grade 10-ish in a biotech outreach program; my co-presenter was pretty uptight during the morning session, I shot the shit with the kids who showed up early after lunch and played up a story about Kary Mullis being high on LSD while driving home from a party with his girlfriend when he had his insight on PCR - which is mostly* true).
ANYway, it's important to recruit the enthusiastic. The recalcitrant want attention; when you make yourself the attention or the majority of the group the main attraction, that'll draw the black sheep back in.
I've also had some success in situations where the not-so-enthusiastic band together in a group. The trick is to identify that group early, and pay attention to them. ie., again another co-instructional program; highschool class, three self-selected teams. First 'activity' was to determine group names. Two groups came up with -whatever- imaginative names, the problem group didn't work to figure out names and when asked, murmered and hawmed until one of them read off 'Tyvek Tubing' from the... Tyvek Tubing hose that connected the aspirator to the flask. Hushed talked with the co-instructor, made the eye-wrinkle "trust me," talked in specifics about how the other two team names were neat and imaginative, and then did a short spiel about "observational skills are really important in science" and Tyvek Tubing just sounds pretty cool and got into a fake argument with the co-instructor and did a 'best of three rock-paper-scissor" thing and got the Tyvek Tubing Team to be the first on the board (there were ongoing 'games' that teams competed for points).
Team Tyvek Tubing were the first ones to come back after the lunch break to talk, and ... I can't remember if they ended up getting the most points (I don't think so), but I think that they got a lot more, and ended up understanding a lot more (because I hung around and <gasp> they asked about the specifics of how stuff worked and I answered them; I bet that they still laugh at CSI) out of the stuff we were doing (getting cell samples from themselves, isolating DNA, doing a PCR to do a 'DNA fingerprint') than the other two teams.
*for certain values of mostly
posted by porpoise at 12:34 AM on August 8, 2009
*sorry
That last anecdote, they had to write their names on a sticker and stick it on a tube that contained saline that they had swished. After the centrifugation, we'd take the tube out, and call out the name so it could be claimed.
One was 'Feta King' - and I called out, Feta King, assuming it was a girl. An ethnically Greek looking boy came up and snickers and whoops came up from all across the room - apparently an ongoing 'inside' joke.
I gave him his tube and told him, absolutely deadplan "I thought this belonged to a girl."
If you want to improve your abilities on handling the pre-rational (or pre-trodden-down), projecting confidence (even if you don't feel it) will help. Experience, too, will help a lot although it sounds like you don't like this aspect of your job and saying that getting more experience dealing with kids would kind of defeat the purpose of being better with kids.
posted by porpoise at 12:41 AM on August 8, 2009
That last anecdote, they had to write their names on a sticker and stick it on a tube that contained saline that they had swished. After the centrifugation, we'd take the tube out, and call out the name so it could be claimed.
One was 'Feta King' - and I called out, Feta King, assuming it was a girl. An ethnically Greek looking boy came up and snickers and whoops came up from all across the room - apparently an ongoing 'inside' joke.
I gave him his tube and told him, absolutely deadplan "I thought this belonged to a girl."
If you want to improve your abilities on handling the pre-rational (or pre-trodden-down), projecting confidence (even if you don't feel it) will help. Experience, too, will help a lot although it sounds like you don't like this aspect of your job and saying that getting more experience dealing with kids would kind of defeat the purpose of being better with kids.
posted by porpoise at 12:41 AM on August 8, 2009
Couldn't disagree more withporpoise here. On what terms they are there is vitally relevant, but please, if it is number 3, don't be the next person to write them off. Both you and they are there for à reason, and you lead the group you have, not the one you wish you had.
posted by Iteki at 2:30 AM on August 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Iteki at 2:30 AM on August 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
Yeah, a little unclear as to the specifics of this program, so I'll do my best....
Kids always listen when you talk about money. So talk about that. I did an activity with my students (same age group, similar kind of program and considered "at risk" teens by the county) where we first did a monthly budget. They wrote down how much they would need for rent, transportation, electric, cable/internet/phone, food, entertainment, healthcare, insurance, clothing, etc. Then they had their totals of how much they would need to make to live in the style they want to live for a month, we multiplied it times 12 and came up with their target yearly income.
THEN we did an activity where we figured out how much they would make a year working a minimum wage job. They were pretty surprised at how much things cost (because really they're kids and don't realize about electric bills and such) and how little they would make at a minimum wage job.
This segued into a lesson on career choice and the various ways to get training to get the job they want; college, junior college, vocational-technical schools, apprenticeships, etc.
As for the job skills part, we would stress to the students a lot, "you know if you were getting paid for this, you'd be docked or fired for what you just did (usually disrespect or insubordination). In high school, your teachers HAVE to put up with you and your drama, employers don't. They will fire you for disrespect and insubordination and hire the next person on their list. On the other hand, if you are a good worker and do what you're supposed to do and do it well, you'll get raises and move up within the company."
We also taught a lot of those skills, many truly didn't know how to answer a phone properly or how to walk up to a customer and ask if they needed help. We would do roleplay exercises and practice with them. We'd give them tips like, "if your shift starts at 8:00, that means at your station in uniform at 8:00, not just pulling into the parking lot at 8:00" and "If you have a problem with your boss, communicate with them, don't just throw a fit and walk out, you won't get a reference." Don't assume these kids know these things. Take them through their jobs step by step and explain everything. They're still kids and still learning. Give them lots of positive reinforcement for what they do well and criticize constructively for what they're doing wrong.
Hang in there!!
posted by NoraCharles at 6:57 AM on August 8, 2009 [2 favorites]
Kids always listen when you talk about money. So talk about that. I did an activity with my students (same age group, similar kind of program and considered "at risk" teens by the county) where we first did a monthly budget. They wrote down how much they would need for rent, transportation, electric, cable/internet/phone, food, entertainment, healthcare, insurance, clothing, etc. Then they had their totals of how much they would need to make to live in the style they want to live for a month, we multiplied it times 12 and came up with their target yearly income.
THEN we did an activity where we figured out how much they would make a year working a minimum wage job. They were pretty surprised at how much things cost (because really they're kids and don't realize about electric bills and such) and how little they would make at a minimum wage job.
This segued into a lesson on career choice and the various ways to get training to get the job they want; college, junior college, vocational-technical schools, apprenticeships, etc.
As for the job skills part, we would stress to the students a lot, "you know if you were getting paid for this, you'd be docked or fired for what you just did (usually disrespect or insubordination). In high school, your teachers HAVE to put up with you and your drama, employers don't. They will fire you for disrespect and insubordination and hire the next person on their list. On the other hand, if you are a good worker and do what you're supposed to do and do it well, you'll get raises and move up within the company."
We also taught a lot of those skills, many truly didn't know how to answer a phone properly or how to walk up to a customer and ask if they needed help. We would do roleplay exercises and practice with them. We'd give them tips like, "if your shift starts at 8:00, that means at your station in uniform at 8:00, not just pulling into the parking lot at 8:00" and "If you have a problem with your boss, communicate with them, don't just throw a fit and walk out, you won't get a reference." Don't assume these kids know these things. Take them through their jobs step by step and explain everything. They're still kids and still learning. Give them lots of positive reinforcement for what they do well and criticize constructively for what they're doing wrong.
Hang in there!!
posted by NoraCharles at 6:57 AM on August 8, 2009 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: It's at a camp, a sort of pre-counsellors in training program. We get them in two-week rotations, and I will be returning to this job next summer as well as finishing out this one. Some of the difficulties we have had so far were:
- They would question us about things which were not within our power, for example, why they do not get volunteering hours for this, which is up to their program director. When we referred them back to her, they continued to try and argue this point with me and my co-worker, even though we have nothing to do with this and had explained that to them.
- One of them was quite freaked out about getting an evaluation. He was unfamiliar with the concept of getting one, of why it might be helpful/necessary and of what would be done with it. This was his director's fault in a way for not explaining it to him right off the bat; they had planned a seminar on this, but another teenager spilled the beans about it before they had the seminar. I had to explain to him that everyone (me, his program director, the camp director etc) gets evaluations because it's prt of having a job, but he was not reassured. He was quite defensive about everything we said to him during his evaluation and kept asking why we were doing this.
- He needed to be told several things more than once. For example: 'you are not allowed to use your cell phone or ipod while at camp.' Several times, we had to remind him (and at one point, I explained to him that this rule applied to everyone, myself included, and would be strictly enforced). One time, I sent him out on an errand with a small group of kids and another counsellor and half an hour later, his program director came back with his ipod, said she had seen him using it, and told me I had to keep it for him and give it back later. I had enought o do without being in charge of his ipod :) Especially as he knew he was not supposed to be using it, and had been talked to about this by multiple people...
posted by JoannaC at 7:32 AM on August 8, 2009
- They would question us about things which were not within our power, for example, why they do not get volunteering hours for this, which is up to their program director. When we referred them back to her, they continued to try and argue this point with me and my co-worker, even though we have nothing to do with this and had explained that to them.
- One of them was quite freaked out about getting an evaluation. He was unfamiliar with the concept of getting one, of why it might be helpful/necessary and of what would be done with it. This was his director's fault in a way for not explaining it to him right off the bat; they had planned a seminar on this, but another teenager spilled the beans about it before they had the seminar. I had to explain to him that everyone (me, his program director, the camp director etc) gets evaluations because it's prt of having a job, but he was not reassured. He was quite defensive about everything we said to him during his evaluation and kept asking why we were doing this.
- He needed to be told several things more than once. For example: 'you are not allowed to use your cell phone or ipod while at camp.' Several times, we had to remind him (and at one point, I explained to him that this rule applied to everyone, myself included, and would be strictly enforced). One time, I sent him out on an errand with a small group of kids and another counsellor and half an hour later, his program director came back with his ipod, said she had seen him using it, and told me I had to keep it for him and give it back later. I had enought o do without being in charge of his ipod :) Especially as he knew he was not supposed to be using it, and had been talked to about this by multiple people...
posted by JoannaC at 7:32 AM on August 8, 2009
Hi OP; I work with teenagers and have a few ideas that have been helpful.
It helps to remember that they're genetically programmed at this stage to question authority, so don't take it personally. They're used to engaging in arguments to get what they want (and often in other settings, if they're annoying/shrill/obnoxious enough, they win).
Having said that, positive reinforcement is surprisingly effective. If you asked most teens, they would tell you that they rarely receive kudos for doing the right thing and get a lot more attention for doing things wrong.
What works for me is this: I tell (and show) my kids incredibly simple rules to be followed and more importantly, goals to achieve, AND tell them how much their individual input is needed. Rules perhaps can't be changed, but their creativity and problem solving is needed to get the job done in a way that excites them. Do they want to teach the kids to draw/sing/dance? Do they like reading scary stories aloud? Let them go for it and be sure to appreciate their efforts. The more they feel part of the process, the more ownership they'll take and the more of that awesome teenage enthusiasm will come through.
As far as rule breaking, the absolute easiest way to fix this is to initially explain the non-negotiable nature of them and ask them right off the bat what they think would be appropriate consequences for not following the rules.
If iPods, etc. are banned, then just the sight of them should have them revoked and NOT returned until they leave. No discussion. They knew the rules and made a choice; now they face consequences.
Good luck; email me more if you want more ideas. Just remember that most kids want to do the right thing but need some help knowing how to get there.
posted by dzaz at 8:23 AM on August 8, 2009
It helps to remember that they're genetically programmed at this stage to question authority, so don't take it personally. They're used to engaging in arguments to get what they want (and often in other settings, if they're annoying/shrill/obnoxious enough, they win).
Having said that, positive reinforcement is surprisingly effective. If you asked most teens, they would tell you that they rarely receive kudos for doing the right thing and get a lot more attention for doing things wrong.
What works for me is this: I tell (and show) my kids incredibly simple rules to be followed and more importantly, goals to achieve, AND tell them how much their individual input is needed. Rules perhaps can't be changed, but their creativity and problem solving is needed to get the job done in a way that excites them. Do they want to teach the kids to draw/sing/dance? Do they like reading scary stories aloud? Let them go for it and be sure to appreciate their efforts. The more they feel part of the process, the more ownership they'll take and the more of that awesome teenage enthusiasm will come through.
As far as rule breaking, the absolute easiest way to fix this is to initially explain the non-negotiable nature of them and ask them right off the bat what they think would be appropriate consequences for not following the rules.
If iPods, etc. are banned, then just the sight of them should have them revoked and NOT returned until they leave. No discussion. They knew the rules and made a choice; now they face consequences.
Good luck; email me more if you want more ideas. Just remember that most kids want to do the right thing but need some help knowing how to get there.
posted by dzaz at 8:23 AM on August 8, 2009
Play up group differences. You're all the counselors and they're the kids. CITs shouldn't be like the kids breaking rules. Behave as if they are Like You and when they deviate behave as if they are Like Kids.
posted by k8t at 8:42 AM on August 8, 2009
posted by k8t at 8:42 AM on August 8, 2009
I'd recommend a little less patience. How many times did you tell him no iPod? Twice is one time too many. Now he might think you're a pushover. In my experience (K-8 teacher) the kids I'm firm and straight-up with (i.e. Katie, you're too old for this and it's in the rules. I have to write you a demerit slip because you're interfering with other people's learning) show me respect and they learn more. It's when I give two many warnings (i.e. C'mon guys be quiet for real.) that they walk all over me and I go home frazzled.
posted by debbie_ann at 9:10 AM on August 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by debbie_ann at 9:10 AM on August 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
Agree with debbie_ann...be clear about rules and explain consequences. If a rule isn't followed once, give the consequence.
When kids know you mean business, you can avoid the whole overtalking thing and you'll find that they not only fall into line better but they'll have more respect for you and themselves.
posted by dzaz at 12:18 PM on August 8, 2009
When kids know you mean business, you can avoid the whole overtalking thing and you'll find that they not only fall into line better but they'll have more respect for you and themselves.
posted by dzaz at 12:18 PM on August 8, 2009
You're stuck with kids who are at a difficult age. I'm going to suggest that you don't engage in debates about ipods, evaluations, or volunteering hours. Every time you do that, you reinforce the behavior. If you are the boss, then you set reasonable boundaries and performance metrics. That doesn't mean that you should act like a jerk, in fact, quite the contrary. When they do things well, be lavish with praise and reward.
If they start whining about volunteer hours, then you cut off that conversation by handing out more work. Personally, I think that carrot will get you more than stick, but sometimes stick is needed too. Especially if you've got people who don't understand that work is not about doing what you want. At 14, I'd expect them to have lots of misunderstandings about working. Model good behavior for them. Use praise when you can and consequences when you can't.
One of the kindest things you can do is teach these kids that jobs reward performance not whining. If they learn that at 14, then they've got a lifetime of successes ahead of them.
posted by 26.2 at 12:44 PM on August 8, 2009
If they start whining about volunteer hours, then you cut off that conversation by handing out more work. Personally, I think that carrot will get you more than stick, but sometimes stick is needed too. Especially if you've got people who don't understand that work is not about doing what you want. At 14, I'd expect them to have lots of misunderstandings about working. Model good behavior for them. Use praise when you can and consequences when you can't.
One of the kindest things you can do is teach these kids that jobs reward performance not whining. If they learn that at 14, then they've got a lifetime of successes ahead of them.
posted by 26.2 at 12:44 PM on August 8, 2009
Ok, so basically they are somewhere on the want-to-be to supposed-to-be scale?
My experience is more like NoraCharles, with at risk/disadvantaged youth. As well as talking about money/value which I totally +1 for that group, let them in on secrets.
Secrets about "how shit really works". PITA teens are convinced everyone is lying to them and the adult world is a huge conspiracy against them doing what they want, and to a certain extent that's true. Let them know the real reason for the rules they are breaking, for example that the reason they aren't to use ipods is that if everyones going around with headphones on then there won't be any interaction with eachother and you need that interaction for there to be a group. Or because it makes your job miserable to be surrounded by isolated little rock-zombies or whatever.
Depending on your role, a little relaxing of the heirarchy can work. If you guys are colleauges with a common "boss" then it's easier to work together than if they are the lowest rung on the ladder. Depending on the circumstances this can be pulled off well without blurring the line between friends and "coworkers". That's saved my ass on occasion when I really don't have a good reason for some rule, they've gone along with it just to not bust my ass. If you have built up a good rapport and mutual respect/trust, then it's sometimes enough to just say "Jesus, guys, seriously?".
If they are to be working as councellors in the future, then they are basically going to be doing the job you are doing now, herding kids yeah? When issues come up, use them as a training oppertunity, ask them how they will handle the equivelant instance when they are "in charge".
Try and relate to them as young adults, but don't underestimate how dog damned dumb kids can be. You would not believe the things they don't know, and genuinely don't understand. If you tell them no iPods, tell them it counts for all media players, there will be some that are dopey enough that they really won't grasp that you don't mean only apple products, and then you also have the ones that will hold you to the letter of the rules like jailhouse lawyers.
I am babbling now, but as a final point, be aware but not hypervigilant, that you may have kids in your group with legitimate learning or attention disabilities. The "told you a thousand times" thing rings a bell for me there if they aren't deliberately screwing with you.
posted by Iteki at 12:50 PM on August 8, 2009
My experience is more like NoraCharles, with at risk/disadvantaged youth. As well as talking about money/value which I totally +1 for that group, let them in on secrets.
Secrets about "how shit really works". PITA teens are convinced everyone is lying to them and the adult world is a huge conspiracy against them doing what they want, and to a certain extent that's true. Let them know the real reason for the rules they are breaking, for example that the reason they aren't to use ipods is that if everyones going around with headphones on then there won't be any interaction with eachother and you need that interaction for there to be a group. Or because it makes your job miserable to be surrounded by isolated little rock-zombies or whatever.
Depending on your role, a little relaxing of the heirarchy can work. If you guys are colleauges with a common "boss" then it's easier to work together than if they are the lowest rung on the ladder. Depending on the circumstances this can be pulled off well without blurring the line between friends and "coworkers". That's saved my ass on occasion when I really don't have a good reason for some rule, they've gone along with it just to not bust my ass. If you have built up a good rapport and mutual respect/trust, then it's sometimes enough to just say "Jesus, guys, seriously?".
If they are to be working as councellors in the future, then they are basically going to be doing the job you are doing now, herding kids yeah? When issues come up, use them as a training oppertunity, ask them how they will handle the equivelant instance when they are "in charge".
Try and relate to them as young adults, but don't underestimate how dog damned dumb kids can be. You would not believe the things they don't know, and genuinely don't understand. If you tell them no iPods, tell them it counts for all media players, there will be some that are dopey enough that they really won't grasp that you don't mean only apple products, and then you also have the ones that will hold you to the letter of the rules like jailhouse lawyers.
I am babbling now, but as a final point, be aware but not hypervigilant, that you may have kids in your group with legitimate learning or attention disabilities. The "told you a thousand times" thing rings a bell for me there if they aren't deliberately screwing with you.
posted by Iteki at 12:50 PM on August 8, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I welcome any further suggestions. Fwiw this camp is a little unique in its hierarchy in that most of the head staff (I am considered 'head staff' myself) are working professionals (as am I) of adult age (I am early 30s and there are quite a few who are older than me). We get decent money (I get a little less than what I make during the school year). Under us, there are programming staff who are generally college students (one of these is my assistant) who get paid considerably less, and then there are the worker bee counselors who take little kids around to all the activities and get a pittance. So the age and experience gap between me and these teenagers is considerable...
posted by JoannaC at 2:11 PM on August 8, 2009
posted by JoannaC at 2:11 PM on August 8, 2009
They would question us about things which were not within our power, for example, why they do not get volunteering hours for this, which is up to their program director. When we referred them back to her...
How accessible was the information you gave concerning the program director? If you just gave a name or title, that might not be enough to get them off your back. Did you provide her email address? This is how many teens would be willing and most likely to communicate.
Their question seems like a good one, especially if they aren't getting payment (or "good" payment) for their work. Once again, there has to be value in this for them. That may not be directly in your hands, but so long as they feel they or their work is undervalued, they're going to be vocal about it to someone, even if it's the wrong someone.
One of them was quite freaked out about getting an evaluation...I had to explain to him that everyone...gets evaluations because...but he was not reassured. He was quite defensive about everything we said to him during his evaluation and kept asking why we were doing this.
Did you dig deeper on this matter? His concern may come from bad experiences with teachers or how his parents have reacted when he's received poor grades. You have no idea of this young person's background. He could be getting abused when he gets poor marks, for all you or anyone else knows. Simply because he was not easily reassured does not mean he was trying to be defensive and/or belligerent. Are you able to show him one of the evaluation sheets? Since there was going to be a seminar, surely some sort of material is available for him to read. This would probably put him at ease, and, if it doesn't, something else is up which may be out of your control, really.
He needed to be told several things more than once. For example: 'you are not allowed to use your cell phone or ipod while at camp.' Especially as he knew he was not supposed to be using it, and had been talked to about this by multiple people...
I agree with the others that, as one who is attempting to keep rules in place, it is your job to confiscate materials that he knows are banned on the premises. That being said, what harm does an iPod on the premises do? I'd sure be asking that, as one of those kids. I always question ban-happiness when it comes to technological devices, especially for young people who've grown up with them and all but think of them as an extension of themselves. This isn't a discussion that you'd need to have with the kids, of course, but perhaps the rules need to be revised? It does seem needlessly silly, particularly if all other activities are carried out by participants just fine, regardless of the presence of an iPod or not.
I don't know, judging from what little you've written here, it doesn't sound so bad or abnormal; in fact, what you're dealing with, with these teens, would seem just as likely to occur, at least in some form, with many adults. I think treating them as "mini" adults will go a long way. Giving them responsibilities and challenges, but also respecting them and valuing what they do will mean a lot to kids that are always labeled as trouble, because of the stage they're in. The age group you're working with also, despite some of its bravado, tends to be highly insecure, so common and frequent encouragement and individual "catching up" will probably help them. Getting to know them better on a personal level will probably help you be more patient with them.
posted by metalheart at 1:37 AM on August 9, 2009
How accessible was the information you gave concerning the program director? If you just gave a name or title, that might not be enough to get them off your back. Did you provide her email address? This is how many teens would be willing and most likely to communicate.
Their question seems like a good one, especially if they aren't getting payment (or "good" payment) for their work. Once again, there has to be value in this for them. That may not be directly in your hands, but so long as they feel they or their work is undervalued, they're going to be vocal about it to someone, even if it's the wrong someone.
One of them was quite freaked out about getting an evaluation...I had to explain to him that everyone...gets evaluations because...but he was not reassured. He was quite defensive about everything we said to him during his evaluation and kept asking why we were doing this.
Did you dig deeper on this matter? His concern may come from bad experiences with teachers or how his parents have reacted when he's received poor grades. You have no idea of this young person's background. He could be getting abused when he gets poor marks, for all you or anyone else knows. Simply because he was not easily reassured does not mean he was trying to be defensive and/or belligerent. Are you able to show him one of the evaluation sheets? Since there was going to be a seminar, surely some sort of material is available for him to read. This would probably put him at ease, and, if it doesn't, something else is up which may be out of your control, really.
He needed to be told several things more than once. For example: 'you are not allowed to use your cell phone or ipod while at camp.' Especially as he knew he was not supposed to be using it, and had been talked to about this by multiple people...
I agree with the others that, as one who is attempting to keep rules in place, it is your job to confiscate materials that he knows are banned on the premises. That being said, what harm does an iPod on the premises do? I'd sure be asking that, as one of those kids. I always question ban-happiness when it comes to technological devices, especially for young people who've grown up with them and all but think of them as an extension of themselves. This isn't a discussion that you'd need to have with the kids, of course, but perhaps the rules need to be revised? It does seem needlessly silly, particularly if all other activities are carried out by participants just fine, regardless of the presence of an iPod or not.
I don't know, judging from what little you've written here, it doesn't sound so bad or abnormal; in fact, what you're dealing with, with these teens, would seem just as likely to occur, at least in some form, with many adults. I think treating them as "mini" adults will go a long way. Giving them responsibilities and challenges, but also respecting them and valuing what they do will mean a lot to kids that are always labeled as trouble, because of the stage they're in. The age group you're working with also, despite some of its bravado, tends to be highly insecure, so common and frequent encouragement and individual "catching up" will probably help them. Getting to know them better on a personal level will probably help you be more patient with them.
posted by metalheart at 1:37 AM on August 9, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by k8t at 9:09 PM on August 7, 2009