The cat is an asshole
August 3, 2009 9:33 AM Subscribe
My fiance has two cats. I've never been a cat person, and am worried about what's going to happen in a few weeks when we move in and the cats become our cats.
Sorry in advance for the length of this... I'm posting anon because people I know read MeFi and I'd rather this not get back to my fiance, so I'll try to squeeze in every detail I can. If you want to reach me, throwaway email is: thatdamnedcat.mefi@gmail.com
My fiance has two cats. They're both adopted strays, who have been with her through a cross-country move and several apartments. We live in a city, so they're both indoor cats, and have been all their lives. One cat (we'll call him A) is awesome. I've never been a cat person, and before I met my fiance, all the cats I'd ever known somehow instinctively knew this and gave me a wide berth. This one did not. He's an attention whore, and the friendliest animal I've ever met. We get along famously, and he's very well-behaved.
The other cat (let's call her B) is a huge asshole. We think she was mistreated before my fiance adopted her, and she never really recovered. She's incredibly skittish, and it's taken me a year and a half of being around her for her to even start to tolerate me. I can, on rare occasions, pet her briefly on the head before she turns and flees. It's possible that I freak her out because I'm much bigger than anyone else she's known (she lives in an apartment with two small-ish females, and I am a very large guy), and make more noise/am more intimidating/remind her of a past abuser, but I want to stress that I've made great efforts not to do anything to freak her out (I don't wear shoes around her because of the heavier footsteps, I've never tried to discipline her for anything she's done [see below], and I try to move as slowly and non-menacingly as I can when she's in sight ). It doesn't seem to matter. This cat pretty clearly dislikes me, and I haven't been able to do much about it. That would be OK with me, but she also pretty clearly dislikes my fiance, too. And my fiance's roommate. And everyone else she's ever met. She'll disappear into a closet when anyone unknown comes around, and will barely make an appearance when it's just me and my fiance. In the time that I've known my fiance, I've never seen her interact with B for more than about 30 seconds at a clip. B will tolerate a small amount of attention, and then act like she's been spooked by something and go tearing out of the room. She's not a lap-cat, and doesn't crave any human attention at all.
I can handle an anti-social cat, but things took a turn for the worse a couple of months ago. B has taken to peeing on things, and it's pretty clearly meant as punishment to my fiance and I. She has a handful of spots that are her favorites, and nothing we've done will dissuade her from them. There's a couch cushion that she likes to target, as well as a spot behind a piece of furniture. If someone leaves their shoes at the entrance to the apartment, those shoes are as good as ruined. We're religious about keeping the catbox clean, and two trips to the vet haven't turned up anything. She's only 6 or 7 years old, so I doubt it's age-related. Every time she pees on something, we completely clean and disinfect it, and we've tried treating the surfaces with cleaning sprays designed to keep cats from re-offending, and we've tried some desperation tactics like spreading dry cat food on the cushion and in the usual target spot on the floor in the hope that she won't want to pee where she eats. Nothing. At least twice a week, there's a big puddle for us to clean up. A few times, she has walked into the room where my fiance and I are sitting, climbed up on the cushion, turned to look directly at us, and peed. She did this earlier today, after my fiance and I got back from a weekend trip out of town (during which my fiance's roommate remained in the apartment, feeding the cats and cleaning the litterbox). I can't see any other reasoning behind this except as punishment--there are no major stressors in her life, unless I'm being perceived as one, but that's not something we can fix.
At the same time, she has taken to sitting outside the bedroom door, howling and scratching at the door in the early hours of the morning. I finally relented and agreed to leave the door open (the two cats used to sleep on the bed with my fiance before we started dating, when I asked that we keep the bedroom kitty-free to slow the cat hair buildup, and because they contribute to my snoring), thinking that she might just be lonely and want some attention. Not the case. A couple of nights a week, she'll sit at the (open) doorway, scratch the doorframe, and meow pitifully for hours at a time. We've made sure that she has water, food, and a clean litterbox. Day or night, when we try to give her attention (because we of course realize that cats are social creatures), she won't hear of it.
You can probably see where this is going. I hate this cat. She's wrecking our sleep and our apartment, and since my experiences with her have all been negative, I don't have any positive things to focus on. Nor can I really see that my fiance has a whole lot of positive history with the cat--B has apparently been completely antisocial for as long as my fiance has had her, and the peeing-as-revenge thing has come up a few times in the past, under equally baffling circumstances. They don't have anywhere near the rapport that my fiance has with A. I am not and never have been a cat person, and I just can't understand why anyone would put up with this from an animal who clearly doesn't care about its owner. (I'm seriously not trying to troll here, and I know people care deeply about their cats--I understand completely, and would probably feel the same if this one made even the slightest hint of caring) I've read the previous advice threads on how to deal with the individual behavioral problems, but all the advice seems to boil down to "cats are assholes, but you should put up with this weird quirk because it's worth it to have a pet you enjoy." I just can't see the upside, and am a little worried about what's going to happen when my fiance and I move into a new place together in a few weeks (we're currently in separate apartments, but spend 5 or 6 nights a week together). I don't want to be unreasonable, and would never start laying down ultimatums like this poster's husband, because I don't wish any harm on the thing, but if the cat starts seriously disturbing our sleep, I don't trust myself not to snap about it in the morning someday, so I'd rather start dealing with this now. And while my fiance and I are normally the two most communicative people in the world, and are otherwise blissfully happy and open with each other, I have no idea how to broach this with her, because I don't have any solutions to offer, and just dropping "I hate this damned cat" isn't helpful.
So, after that whole treatise: what do I do? I'd love to hear any suggestions for correcting the cat's behavior, or finding a way for it not to bother me so much, or for somewhere the cat can go, or... well, anything.
Thanks in advance!
Sorry in advance for the length of this... I'm posting anon because people I know read MeFi and I'd rather this not get back to my fiance, so I'll try to squeeze in every detail I can. If you want to reach me, throwaway email is: thatdamnedcat.mefi@gmail.com
My fiance has two cats. They're both adopted strays, who have been with her through a cross-country move and several apartments. We live in a city, so they're both indoor cats, and have been all their lives. One cat (we'll call him A) is awesome. I've never been a cat person, and before I met my fiance, all the cats I'd ever known somehow instinctively knew this and gave me a wide berth. This one did not. He's an attention whore, and the friendliest animal I've ever met. We get along famously, and he's very well-behaved.
The other cat (let's call her B) is a huge asshole. We think she was mistreated before my fiance adopted her, and she never really recovered. She's incredibly skittish, and it's taken me a year and a half of being around her for her to even start to tolerate me. I can, on rare occasions, pet her briefly on the head before she turns and flees. It's possible that I freak her out because I'm much bigger than anyone else she's known (she lives in an apartment with two small-ish females, and I am a very large guy), and make more noise/am more intimidating/remind her of a past abuser, but I want to stress that I've made great efforts not to do anything to freak her out (I don't wear shoes around her because of the heavier footsteps, I've never tried to discipline her for anything she's done [see below], and I try to move as slowly and non-menacingly as I can when she's in sight ). It doesn't seem to matter. This cat pretty clearly dislikes me, and I haven't been able to do much about it. That would be OK with me, but she also pretty clearly dislikes my fiance, too. And my fiance's roommate. And everyone else she's ever met. She'll disappear into a closet when anyone unknown comes around, and will barely make an appearance when it's just me and my fiance. In the time that I've known my fiance, I've never seen her interact with B for more than about 30 seconds at a clip. B will tolerate a small amount of attention, and then act like she's been spooked by something and go tearing out of the room. She's not a lap-cat, and doesn't crave any human attention at all.
I can handle an anti-social cat, but things took a turn for the worse a couple of months ago. B has taken to peeing on things, and it's pretty clearly meant as punishment to my fiance and I. She has a handful of spots that are her favorites, and nothing we've done will dissuade her from them. There's a couch cushion that she likes to target, as well as a spot behind a piece of furniture. If someone leaves their shoes at the entrance to the apartment, those shoes are as good as ruined. We're religious about keeping the catbox clean, and two trips to the vet haven't turned up anything. She's only 6 or 7 years old, so I doubt it's age-related. Every time she pees on something, we completely clean and disinfect it, and we've tried treating the surfaces with cleaning sprays designed to keep cats from re-offending, and we've tried some desperation tactics like spreading dry cat food on the cushion and in the usual target spot on the floor in the hope that she won't want to pee where she eats. Nothing. At least twice a week, there's a big puddle for us to clean up. A few times, she has walked into the room where my fiance and I are sitting, climbed up on the cushion, turned to look directly at us, and peed. She did this earlier today, after my fiance and I got back from a weekend trip out of town (during which my fiance's roommate remained in the apartment, feeding the cats and cleaning the litterbox). I can't see any other reasoning behind this except as punishment--there are no major stressors in her life, unless I'm being perceived as one, but that's not something we can fix.
At the same time, she has taken to sitting outside the bedroom door, howling and scratching at the door in the early hours of the morning. I finally relented and agreed to leave the door open (the two cats used to sleep on the bed with my fiance before we started dating, when I asked that we keep the bedroom kitty-free to slow the cat hair buildup, and because they contribute to my snoring), thinking that she might just be lonely and want some attention. Not the case. A couple of nights a week, she'll sit at the (open) doorway, scratch the doorframe, and meow pitifully for hours at a time. We've made sure that she has water, food, and a clean litterbox. Day or night, when we try to give her attention (because we of course realize that cats are social creatures), she won't hear of it.
You can probably see where this is going. I hate this cat. She's wrecking our sleep and our apartment, and since my experiences with her have all been negative, I don't have any positive things to focus on. Nor can I really see that my fiance has a whole lot of positive history with the cat--B has apparently been completely antisocial for as long as my fiance has had her, and the peeing-as-revenge thing has come up a few times in the past, under equally baffling circumstances. They don't have anywhere near the rapport that my fiance has with A. I am not and never have been a cat person, and I just can't understand why anyone would put up with this from an animal who clearly doesn't care about its owner. (I'm seriously not trying to troll here, and I know people care deeply about their cats--I understand completely, and would probably feel the same if this one made even the slightest hint of caring) I've read the previous advice threads on how to deal with the individual behavioral problems, but all the advice seems to boil down to "cats are assholes, but you should put up with this weird quirk because it's worth it to have a pet you enjoy." I just can't see the upside, and am a little worried about what's going to happen when my fiance and I move into a new place together in a few weeks (we're currently in separate apartments, but spend 5 or 6 nights a week together). I don't want to be unreasonable, and would never start laying down ultimatums like this poster's husband, because I don't wish any harm on the thing, but if the cat starts seriously disturbing our sleep, I don't trust myself not to snap about it in the morning someday, so I'd rather start dealing with this now. And while my fiance and I are normally the two most communicative people in the world, and are otherwise blissfully happy and open with each other, I have no idea how to broach this with her, because I don't have any solutions to offer, and just dropping "I hate this damned cat" isn't helpful.
So, after that whole treatise: what do I do? I'd love to hear any suggestions for correcting the cat's behavior, or finding a way for it not to bother me so much, or for somewhere the cat can go, or... well, anything.
Thanks in advance!
I highly recommend the Sentry HC Good Behavior Pheromone collar.
I picked one up for my anxious and cranky cat, and he calmed down noticeably. We'd previously been using a Feliway diffuser, which worked reasonably well, but once it got warm outside and we wanted to open up our windows, it's effectiveness plummeted. We tried out the collar on recommendation from the owner of a local pet shop, and it's been wonderful.
When we had guests over, he used to run and hide and maybe poke his head around the corner a few times to see what's up. Now he just hangs out with everyone just like he was a normal, social cat.
posted by burntflowers at 9:56 AM on August 3, 2009 [3 favorites]
I picked one up for my anxious and cranky cat, and he calmed down noticeably. We'd previously been using a Feliway diffuser, which worked reasonably well, but once it got warm outside and we wanted to open up our windows, it's effectiveness plummeted. We tried out the collar on recommendation from the owner of a local pet shop, and it's been wonderful.
When we had guests over, he used to run and hide and maybe poke his head around the corner a few times to see what's up. Now he just hangs out with everyone just like he was a normal, social cat.
posted by burntflowers at 9:56 AM on August 3, 2009 [3 favorites]
Sounds like B isn't spayed or neutered... emailed you for clarification.
posted by teabag at 10:01 AM on August 3, 2009
posted by teabag at 10:01 AM on August 3, 2009
I think revenge peeing has crossed the border from "quirk you should put up with" into "problem."
However, this also caught my eye:
I can't see any other reasoning behind this except as punishment--there are no major stressors in her life, unless I'm being perceived as one, but that's not something we can fix.
You say that this behavior is a couple months old. Did you happen to move in with your fiancee at about this time? If so, then that's definitely something that's connected, I'd say. Fortunately, if that's the case, then I'd wager that it's also finite, in that in time the cat will stop. You actually might BE the stressor, I'm afraid. Some cats just plain can't handle a new person in their territory for a while. My ex had a cat that he'd gotten with his last girlfriend, and they "shared custody" (seriously, they worked out this whole thing with visitation rights and everything). Most of the time the cat lived with my ex's ex, but sometimes would stay with him -- and this cat hated me. When I visited my ex when Rupert was there, Rupert would play with him - but would hide under things and hiss at me. One time he even blocked my way to the bathroom, sitting smack in front of the door and hissing. I am utterly convinced that if this cat had human speech, it wouldn't have hissed at me, it would have instead been sneering, "You're not my mommy."
As for the scratching at the doorframe -- try NOT giving her attention. Leave the door open, but don't respond when she scratches and cries. If you HAVE been jumping up and lavishing attention on her, you've only been teaching her that "making a fuss = the bald monkeys get up and fuss over me". Maybe get a couple of squirt guns and keep them by the bed, and give her a squirt when he starts in with the crying -- but otherwise don't react at all. Eventually she'll learn that "making a fuss = water in the face".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:05 AM on August 3, 2009
However, this also caught my eye:
I can't see any other reasoning behind this except as punishment--there are no major stressors in her life, unless I'm being perceived as one, but that's not something we can fix.
You say that this behavior is a couple months old. Did you happen to move in with your fiancee at about this time? If so, then that's definitely something that's connected, I'd say. Fortunately, if that's the case, then I'd wager that it's also finite, in that in time the cat will stop. You actually might BE the stressor, I'm afraid. Some cats just plain can't handle a new person in their territory for a while. My ex had a cat that he'd gotten with his last girlfriend, and they "shared custody" (seriously, they worked out this whole thing with visitation rights and everything). Most of the time the cat lived with my ex's ex, but sometimes would stay with him -- and this cat hated me. When I visited my ex when Rupert was there, Rupert would play with him - but would hide under things and hiss at me. One time he even blocked my way to the bathroom, sitting smack in front of the door and hissing. I am utterly convinced that if this cat had human speech, it wouldn't have hissed at me, it would have instead been sneering, "You're not my mommy."
As for the scratching at the doorframe -- try NOT giving her attention. Leave the door open, but don't respond when she scratches and cries. If you HAVE been jumping up and lavishing attention on her, you've only been teaching her that "making a fuss = the bald monkeys get up and fuss over me". Maybe get a couple of squirt guns and keep them by the bed, and give her a squirt when he starts in with the crying -- but otherwise don't react at all. Eventually she'll learn that "making a fuss = water in the face".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:05 AM on August 3, 2009
My former "Urinator" cat is doing really well on Prozac along with behavior modifications. He gets a fourth of a pill (10 mg) a day in a treat. He is calmer and the incidental peeing is much better. If you're cool with meds I'd talk with your vet.
posted by ShadePlant at 10:10 AM on August 3, 2009
posted by ShadePlant at 10:10 AM on August 3, 2009
You really need to talk to your Fiance about this...you should be discussing this with her..
As absurd as this sounds, she may need to make the choice between you and the cat (or at least "living with" you and the cat), and it really is her choice.
Moving in together with your "I hate this cat." position will be a set up for bad things to happen on a lot of fronts.
In terms of the cat's seeming inability to relate to you... it takes time. We have a 4 year old former feral cat that disappears every time someone new comes into the house, this cat took nearly a year to adjust to my wife and I when he first arrived.
As for the peeing problems, I've only had to cure one cat of this, it took putting her on a low dose of anti anxiety drugs and keeping her confined to a bathroom with a litter box, food, and water for about a week (we would spend plenty of time in there giving her attention as well)...
The bedroom door problem: we cured a scratching at the door cat with a "scat" mat... used it for about a month, cured the problem forever...
But... the pee problem is the least of your difficulties..
posted by HuronBob at 10:10 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
As absurd as this sounds, she may need to make the choice between you and the cat (or at least "living with" you and the cat), and it really is her choice.
Moving in together with your "I hate this cat." position will be a set up for bad things to happen on a lot of fronts.
In terms of the cat's seeming inability to relate to you... it takes time. We have a 4 year old former feral cat that disappears every time someone new comes into the house, this cat took nearly a year to adjust to my wife and I when he first arrived.
As for the peeing problems, I've only had to cure one cat of this, it took putting her on a low dose of anti anxiety drugs and keeping her confined to a bathroom with a litter box, food, and water for about a week (we would spend plenty of time in there giving her attention as well)...
The bedroom door problem: we cured a scratching at the door cat with a "scat" mat... used it for about a month, cured the problem forever...
But... the pee problem is the least of your difficulties..
posted by HuronBob at 10:10 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Feliway works for a cat in my house who had many of those issues... though you being moved-in full-time may also help (by convincing the cat that you being around is normal and ok). You pretty much described the classic "freaked out because something in my living space is NOT RIGHT" list of behaviors, so it's the most obvious thing to try addressing first.
It's still best to discuss all this as a collective, obviously.
posted by Pufferish at 10:11 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
It's still best to discuss all this as a collective, obviously.
posted by Pufferish at 10:11 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Poster responded that B is spayed... that throws out my theories of a cat in heat.
I second the water bottle. Cat's need to be taught lessons as they act out... water to the face is excellent negative feedback.
posted by teabag at 10:12 AM on August 3, 2009
I second the water bottle. Cat's need to be taught lessons as they act out... water to the face is excellent negative feedback.
posted by teabag at 10:12 AM on August 3, 2009
She's been to the vet with the cat about this problem. Has the vet recommended medication? There are several kinds of meds being used to treat inappropriate urination. I'm currently using amitriptyline on one of my cats, and it has really improved his general demeanor. I've also used bus-par in the past for another problem pee-er. I would recommend a four step process:
1. Medication
2. Frequent litter scooping (How many litter boxes do you have? For two cats, you should have three boxes.)
3. Feliway
4. Anti-Icky-Poo to treat areas already peed on.
Speaking as someone who has been in your girlfriend's position, calling the cat an asshole is probably not the best way to approach it. I understand that you don't understand what your girlfriend "gets" from the cat, but as you've stated, you're not a cat person. Saying "I want to help out with B, I've done some research on the internet, can we talk about it?" is cool, saying "OMFG I hate that asshole cat, why do you keep her around?" is not.
posted by crankylex at 10:12 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
1. Medication
2. Frequent litter scooping (How many litter boxes do you have? For two cats, you should have three boxes.)
3. Feliway
4. Anti-Icky-Poo to treat areas already peed on.
Speaking as someone who has been in your girlfriend's position, calling the cat an asshole is probably not the best way to approach it. I understand that you don't understand what your girlfriend "gets" from the cat, but as you've stated, you're not a cat person. Saying "I want to help out with B, I've done some research on the internet, can we talk about it?" is cool, saying "OMFG I hate that asshole cat, why do you keep her around?" is not.
posted by crankylex at 10:12 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
The poster is about to move in, so that's not something that happened two months ago. Not to say he isn't the stressor.
One thing you might want to consider, anonymous: beyond the "I might snap in the morning" effect, cats sometimes become injured or sick in ways that are very expensive. My brother's girlfriend's cat did something weird to her foot, which cost $3000 to fix. Since they live together, and since there's no way his GF could pay this, it turned into a major effort (they sold things to get the money together). Alternatives? Cat limps & lives in pain; or amputation.
So, yeah, you need to work this out.
Rather than a statement: "I hate this cat." - you probably should present this as a question to her. Like you said, there's a lot to consider. Maybe present the situation & discuss it a little, then have a follow-up discussion a little later. Good luck.
posted by amtho at 10:13 AM on August 3, 2009
One thing you might want to consider, anonymous: beyond the "I might snap in the morning" effect, cats sometimes become injured or sick in ways that are very expensive. My brother's girlfriend's cat did something weird to her foot, which cost $3000 to fix. Since they live together, and since there's no way his GF could pay this, it turned into a major effort (they sold things to get the money together). Alternatives? Cat limps & lives in pain; or amputation.
So, yeah, you need to work this out.
Rather than a statement: "I hate this cat." - you probably should present this as a question to her. Like you said, there's a lot to consider. Maybe present the situation & discuss it a little, then have a follow-up discussion a little later. Good luck.
posted by amtho at 10:13 AM on August 3, 2009
As the owner of a "complicated" cat, I understand your pain. I've also been in the situation of integrating living spaces and the complication that cats (or any animal, really) can throw into the mix.
Unfortunately, I have never had circumstances like this resolved with a single, solid fix. It will likely be an ongoing effort but it sounds like something you and your fiance can make work. You have a few things going for you:
1.) You obviously care about the issue and are willing to work with/around the cat's "personality". That may, for better or worse, make you a cat person.
2.) You are moving into a new space. This will have a profound affect on the cat's quirks, being teleported from its comfort zone. It's a perfect time to do what minimal training is possible in a cat brain.
A veterinarian can help you with the protocol for cat + new house + behavioral issues. From speaking with them in the past I know that moving can create a rare opportunity to set boundaries and make behavioral modifications.
I won't presume about your situation but I would personally not hesitate at all to bring this up as an issue to work through leading up to the move. You are going to need your fiance's help and it doesn't sound like they have any illusions about the cat being easy to live with. If you really don't want to personalize the issue, you could suggest getting advice from a vet ahead of the move to stave off general peeing problems and the like as I'm sure your fiance would be happy to be rid of those as well.
I hope it works out for you.
posted by jjames at 10:25 AM on August 3, 2009
Unfortunately, I have never had circumstances like this resolved with a single, solid fix. It will likely be an ongoing effort but it sounds like something you and your fiance can make work. You have a few things going for you:
1.) You obviously care about the issue and are willing to work with/around the cat's "personality". That may, for better or worse, make you a cat person.
2.) You are moving into a new space. This will have a profound affect on the cat's quirks, being teleported from its comfort zone. It's a perfect time to do what minimal training is possible in a cat brain.
A veterinarian can help you with the protocol for cat + new house + behavioral issues. From speaking with them in the past I know that moving can create a rare opportunity to set boundaries and make behavioral modifications.
I won't presume about your situation but I would personally not hesitate at all to bring this up as an issue to work through leading up to the move. You are going to need your fiance's help and it doesn't sound like they have any illusions about the cat being easy to live with. If you really don't want to personalize the issue, you could suggest getting advice from a vet ahead of the move to stave off general peeing problems and the like as I'm sure your fiance would be happy to be rid of those as well.
I hope it works out for you.
posted by jjames at 10:25 AM on August 3, 2009
I am a cat person--deeply. I love cats. I'd be reluctant to date or marry a man who didn't love cats. My photo albums are full of pictures of my cats past and present. I even keep pictures of my friends cats. My first word was cat.
But I wouldn't live with a cat like B. No one should have to put up with that. Clearly that cat is unhappy. The cat has told you so and you've both tried to accommodate her. It's not working. Your fiancee either needs to find the cat a home where she will be happy (probably a home with someone who lives alone and doesn't have other pets) or make arrangements for B to stay in the garage or outside.
It's for you and your fiancee to decide but I don't think this has anything to do with whether or not you like cats. It has to do with whether or not you like living in an apartment that smells like piss.
posted by i_love_squirrels at 10:27 AM on August 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
But I wouldn't live with a cat like B. No one should have to put up with that. Clearly that cat is unhappy. The cat has told you so and you've both tried to accommodate her. It's not working. Your fiancee either needs to find the cat a home where she will be happy (probably a home with someone who lives alone and doesn't have other pets) or make arrangements for B to stay in the garage or outside.
It's for you and your fiancee to decide but I don't think this has anything to do with whether or not you like cats. It has to do with whether or not you like living in an apartment that smells like piss.
posted by i_love_squirrels at 10:27 AM on August 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
Have you tried getting multiple litterboxes and putting them out everywhere she's peeing? This has worked so far for my skittish, stressed cat who was peeing on things while looking me in the eye. Then eventually she didn't need the extra boxes any more once the effect of the stress-inducing factor (my out of town trip) had diminished.
The vet also found some crystals in her urine and I switched her to all wet food to keep her hydrated (and therefore make the peeing more comfortable and more likely to occur in an appropriate spot), although I don't really know if that had an effect or not. I assume your vet has checked her urine?
I can't see any other reasoning behind this except as punishment--there are no major stressors in her life
In the cat mind, both the increased presence of a new person and her person going out of town could be very stressful. I'd encourage you to think of her as trying to communicate her distress to you rather than her "punishing" you. Cats don't think like we do.
posted by lemuria at 10:38 AM on August 3, 2009
The vet also found some crystals in her urine and I switched her to all wet food to keep her hydrated (and therefore make the peeing more comfortable and more likely to occur in an appropriate spot), although I don't really know if that had an effect or not. I assume your vet has checked her urine?
I can't see any other reasoning behind this except as punishment--there are no major stressors in her life
In the cat mind, both the increased presence of a new person and her person going out of town could be very stressful. I'd encourage you to think of her as trying to communicate her distress to you rather than her "punishing" you. Cats don't think like we do.
posted by lemuria at 10:38 AM on August 3, 2009
I am not and never have been a cat person, and I just can't understand why anyone would put up with this from an animal who clearly doesn't care about its owner.
I think part of this has to do with having taken responsibility for the life of an animal that is basically helpless on its own (at least after years of domesticity); pets are not things you can just trivially get rid of if they aren't working out. "Not putting up" with this in the subtext of your question would seem to amount to giving it up to a shelter, where it will probably either not find an owner (because of its personality issues) and be killed, or have whatever happens to such pets at no-kill shelters happen to it, though this is perhaps a more reasonable possibility.
I'm not saying that this is necessarily what's in her mind (you should ask her that), or that people should keep all problem pets no matter the circumstances (oh god please let's not have that thread again), just trying to give you a perspective on why someone might put up with this.
posted by advil at 11:10 AM on August 3, 2009
I think part of this has to do with having taken responsibility for the life of an animal that is basically helpless on its own (at least after years of domesticity); pets are not things you can just trivially get rid of if they aren't working out. "Not putting up" with this in the subtext of your question would seem to amount to giving it up to a shelter, where it will probably either not find an owner (because of its personality issues) and be killed, or have whatever happens to such pets at no-kill shelters happen to it, though this is perhaps a more reasonable possibility.
I'm not saying that this is necessarily what's in her mind (you should ask her that), or that people should keep all problem pets no matter the circumstances (oh god please let's not have that thread again), just trying to give you a perspective on why someone might put up with this.
posted by advil at 11:10 AM on August 3, 2009
I love my kitty like nothing else, but I gotta say your cat sounds a bit evil. I've had a cat with the pee-revenge problem, and it was definitely revenge. So, I think your possible theory that it's your presence might be true.
My recommendation is that you talk with your fiance. Oh, but gently! She's attached to this cat, so I think you've got to tread ever so softly. What you don't want to do is be "the person who made her give up her kitty." So, I'd wait for it to come from her.
posted by Houstonian at 11:25 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
My recommendation is that you talk with your fiance. Oh, but gently! She's attached to this cat, so I think you've got to tread ever so softly. What you don't want to do is be "the person who made her give up her kitty." So, I'd wait for it to come from her.
"We've tried X, Y, and Z. Next up to try is A and B. Then I'm out of ideas. What do you suggest?"Eventually, if there is no solution, she will recognize that.
(Later.) "We've now tried X, Y, Z, A, and B. I know you love kitty, and so do I, so I'm very frustrated that we can't get her to not pee on the couch. Are you as frustrated as I am?"
(Later.) "You know I love kitty, but this is terrible. We need to come up with a solution."
posted by Houstonian at 11:25 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
The cat needs to go. That's certain. The only question is how to reach an agreement with your girlfriend. If you are the kind of person who is clearly eminently reasonable and good-natured, and your girlfriend understands that, it'll be easier to accomplish. The message you must convey is "the problem is not me, it's not you, it's the cat".
In fact, see it as an opportunity. There are always potential stresses in relationships. Isn't it great that you get a fantastic preview of how such stresses will be handled in the future, before you even move in? Wonderful! How lucky you are she has such a cat and such an issue! How this is handled will tell you a lot about how your girlfriend is likely to react under stress, how she handles emotions, what her priorities are and where you stand in the hierarchy of things, how persuasive you are and how well both of you really communicate and how many values do you really share. It will be equally telling of your behavior and priorities. And if she picks her cat over you, with you having been gentle and reasonable and rational, then that tells you something very important. Because, see, life often presents us with problems, where there is no happy solution, and where one must make emotionally difficult decisions. And the cat won't be the only one. Good to know how you two handle this, before you go on much further.
This cat is the best thing that's ever happened to you and your girlfriend "together". Cherish that cat for having given you this gift. Then get rid of it.
posted by VikingSword at 11:37 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
In fact, see it as an opportunity. There are always potential stresses in relationships. Isn't it great that you get a fantastic preview of how such stresses will be handled in the future, before you even move in? Wonderful! How lucky you are she has such a cat and such an issue! How this is handled will tell you a lot about how your girlfriend is likely to react under stress, how she handles emotions, what her priorities are and where you stand in the hierarchy of things, how persuasive you are and how well both of you really communicate and how many values do you really share. It will be equally telling of your behavior and priorities. And if she picks her cat over you, with you having been gentle and reasonable and rational, then that tells you something very important. Because, see, life often presents us with problems, where there is no happy solution, and where one must make emotionally difficult decisions. And the cat won't be the only one. Good to know how you two handle this, before you go on much further.
This cat is the best thing that's ever happened to you and your girlfriend "together". Cherish that cat for having given you this gift. Then get rid of it.
posted by VikingSword at 11:37 AM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
I feel I should add that once I house-sat for a couple with a similar problem. The wife asked me to find a new home for her cat while she was away because it would be easier on her daughter. In the end, I found a friend of a friend who fell in love with this cat instantly and took her despite knowing the cat was a "retaliation pee-er." After going to her new home, this cat quickly transformed from a hider/pee-er to a loving friendly animal and is much happier. Sometimes the cat just doesn't like her living situation anymore. Since she can't express it verbally, she uses whatever she can to express her feelings.
If you find the cat a new home, be sure the person taking her know she has a problem and that you feel certain the cat won't be punished or abused if she doesn't reform. Chances are good that you can successfully find this cat a new home.
posted by i_love_squirrels at 12:06 PM on August 3, 2009
If you find the cat a new home, be sure the person taking her know she has a problem and that you feel certain the cat won't be punished or abused if she doesn't reform. Chances are good that you can successfully find this cat a new home.
posted by i_love_squirrels at 12:06 PM on August 3, 2009
Every so often a cat behavior problem pops up on AskMe. This one sounds difficult. but you probably don't want to give up yet. So, I did an out-of-the-blue Google search. "cat whisperer" got over 32,000 hits. (ignore the youtube listings - they're parody, and bad parody at that).
This Salon article is worth reading. The cat behaviorist about whom the article is written, Mieshelle Nagelschneider, had great success with the author's cat biting problem, all through a questionnaire, a single phone call, and several e-mail follow-ups - $165, I believe. Plus a decent amount of dedication on the part of the article's author. Ms. Nagelschneider has her own clinic/consultancy site - here's her page about her services solving urination outside the litter box problems.
There is a book titled "The Cat Whisperer" which sounds vaguely interesting - it promises a section which is a list of problems and solutions, but I think your cat sounds like an extreme case, so maybe something under a "cat behavior problems" Amazon search would be more appropriate (325 results).
*** Psycho Kitty (2008, 2nd edition) sounds very promising. The author has written a number of books on the subject of cat behavior, and she also does consulting (good-looking web site). Her 2007 book on correcting problems in an adult cat also looks pretty good.
If you want to start with a fairly inexpensive cat whisperer, this person may be worth a shot (scroll down to the "pay now" button to start the process) . She only charges $6.99 per problem (e-mail counseling), but it sounds like she's pretty harried at the moment (building a new house for her and the kitties).
Googling cat behavior consultant garnered over 1.2 million hits - maybe you can find one physically near you, if you prefer.
posted by amtho at 12:57 PM on August 3, 2009
This Salon article is worth reading. The cat behaviorist about whom the article is written, Mieshelle Nagelschneider, had great success with the author's cat biting problem, all through a questionnaire, a single phone call, and several e-mail follow-ups - $165, I believe. Plus a decent amount of dedication on the part of the article's author. Ms. Nagelschneider has her own clinic/consultancy site - here's her page about her services solving urination outside the litter box problems.
There is a book titled "The Cat Whisperer" which sounds vaguely interesting - it promises a section which is a list of problems and solutions, but I think your cat sounds like an extreme case, so maybe something under a "cat behavior problems" Amazon search would be more appropriate (325 results).
*** Psycho Kitty (2008, 2nd edition) sounds very promising. The author has written a number of books on the subject of cat behavior, and she also does consulting (good-looking web site). Her 2007 book on correcting problems in an adult cat also looks pretty good.
If you want to start with a fairly inexpensive cat whisperer, this person may be worth a shot (scroll down to the "pay now" button to start the process) . She only charges $6.99 per problem (e-mail counseling), but it sounds like she's pretty harried at the moment (building a new house for her and the kitties).
Googling cat behavior consultant garnered over 1.2 million hits - maybe you can find one physically near you, if you prefer.
posted by amtho at 12:57 PM on August 3, 2009
The sad thing is, even a person that liked cats could've written this. Loved them even. (Or maybe that person could just watch?)
I don't know where you got your cat facts but they're... wrong. And this is greatly to your disadvantage my friend.
(because we of course realize that cats are social creatures)
Nope. They definitely are not. (I know A is but A isn't the norm.)
Cats are not like dogs (or people) and people seem to have trouble getting their heads around this.
Cats don't give a fuck. They really don't.
So after all that cat B's gone through she really wants nothing from you. You seem to think she owes any of you anything? Regardless of your expectation she does not and probably never will. Good deeds aren't about being entitled to gratitude are they? Ignore her and just leave her be. She'll appreciate that.
I can't see any other reasoning behind this except as punishment
You seem to be getting this one loud and clear except cats don't comprehend punishment. They understand patterns and results. If you have 1 and add 1 you'll get 2. Good things or bad, this is how it works. She feels strongly about something, but she is not punishing you.
a few times in the past, under equally baffling circumstances.
WRONG WRONG WRONG. If it is not identical, then there will just be a definite pattern. Perhaps a sequence of events or just one thing in particular. But don't kid yourself, it's not random at all. (Cats are bizarre and it's probably not what you think. It'll be something 'insignificant'. And weird.)
They absolutely are sensitive to routine and familiarity.
Maybe she spends her nights watching your fiance sleep? Any human contact B might wish to have could also be gained in complete 'safely' while she slept. One piece of data B will have collected on humans is that they never do any harm while they are asleep.
I try to move as slowly and non-menacingly as I can when she's in sight
...Except this is how cats hunt. Think of it kinda like going quiet every time someone walks in the room. She knows what your footsteps sound like and then any time you spy her you start sneaking around. Wtf? It's like the hunting version of "not touching you"?
Now you need to think about this. What other small things might you do you do to her? Does it change things if it turns out you were the one who started this by being hostile to her?
And I know. The worst part about it is that you were actually just trying to be kind :)
I don't trust myself not to snap about it in the morning someday,
Then don't expect kitteh to trust you, because they're not stupid.
How to talk to her?
Well you guys should learn some stuff about cats. (I swear it's like magic. Things just fall into line and you almost wanna cry with tears of joy.)
OH!! And - big tip for when your houses merge.
Cats own stuff. And all of their stuff smells like them accordingly. Cats have lots of 'stuff' it seems :) so I guess they just keep track via an easy tagging system. This might be an aspect of your shoe problem - scents on them which indicate she needs to deal with this?
But anyway if you want to avoid problems start rubbing their smell onto 'their new stuff' (the stuff formerly known as your stuff) so that it does not attract any unwanted attention. This works like a charm with a new kitten too.
Hope some of this helps. Good luck with everything.
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 2:02 PM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
I don't know where you got your cat facts but they're... wrong. And this is greatly to your disadvantage my friend.
(because we of course realize that cats are social creatures)
Nope. They definitely are not. (I know A is but A isn't the norm.)
Cats are not like dogs (or people) and people seem to have trouble getting their heads around this.
Cats don't give a fuck. They really don't.
So after all that cat B's gone through she really wants nothing from you. You seem to think she owes any of you anything? Regardless of your expectation she does not and probably never will. Good deeds aren't about being entitled to gratitude are they? Ignore her and just leave her be. She'll appreciate that.
I can't see any other reasoning behind this except as punishment
You seem to be getting this one loud and clear except cats don't comprehend punishment. They understand patterns and results. If you have 1 and add 1 you'll get 2. Good things or bad, this is how it works. She feels strongly about something, but she is not punishing you.
a few times in the past, under equally baffling circumstances.
WRONG WRONG WRONG. If it is not identical, then there will just be a definite pattern. Perhaps a sequence of events or just one thing in particular. But don't kid yourself, it's not random at all. (Cats are bizarre and it's probably not what you think. It'll be something 'insignificant'. And weird.)
They absolutely are sensitive to routine and familiarity.
Maybe she spends her nights watching your fiance sleep? Any human contact B might wish to have could also be gained in complete 'safely' while she slept. One piece of data B will have collected on humans is that they never do any harm while they are asleep.
I try to move as slowly and non-menacingly as I can when she's in sight
...Except this is how cats hunt. Think of it kinda like going quiet every time someone walks in the room. She knows what your footsteps sound like and then any time you spy her you start sneaking around. Wtf? It's like the hunting version of "not touching you"?
Now you need to think about this. What other small things might you do you do to her? Does it change things if it turns out you were the one who started this by being hostile to her?
And I know. The worst part about it is that you were actually just trying to be kind :)
I don't trust myself not to snap about it in the morning someday,
Then don't expect kitteh to trust you, because they're not stupid.
How to talk to her?
Well you guys should learn some stuff about cats. (I swear it's like magic. Things just fall into line and you almost wanna cry with tears of joy.)
OH!! And - big tip for when your houses merge.
Cats own stuff. And all of their stuff smells like them accordingly. Cats have lots of 'stuff' it seems :) so I guess they just keep track via an easy tagging system. This might be an aspect of your shoe problem - scents on them which indicate she needs to deal with this?
But anyway if you want to avoid problems start rubbing their smell onto 'their new stuff' (the stuff formerly known as your stuff) so that it does not attract any unwanted attention. This works like a charm with a new kitten too.
Hope some of this helps. Good luck with everything.
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 2:02 PM on August 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm not usually one to advocate getting rid of a cat, as I adore cats and think that most of their bad behavior is usually very fixable (or get-used-to-able).
But I realized that when I was in a similar situation - where I had a cat that started peeing in things once my significant other moved in - I got rid of that cat pretty fast. Found her (the cat) a new home. I'm sure that cat's much happier now.
I mean, if the cat is an adult, spayed, and is still stand-offish and hostile (you know, peeing everywhere) about your presence, then it will take a lot of time and effort to get it in a good place with you. In my experience, it could be near 24-hour days for a few consecutive weeks.
I think it's pretty reasonable to ask to move the cat to a new home, if that's an option.
posted by jabberjaw at 3:40 PM on August 3, 2009
But I realized that when I was in a similar situation - where I had a cat that started peeing in things once my significant other moved in - I got rid of that cat pretty fast. Found her (the cat) a new home. I'm sure that cat's much happier now.
I mean, if the cat is an adult, spayed, and is still stand-offish and hostile (you know, peeing everywhere) about your presence, then it will take a lot of time and effort to get it in a good place with you. In my experience, it could be near 24-hour days for a few consecutive weeks.
I think it's pretty reasonable to ask to move the cat to a new home, if that's an option.
posted by jabberjaw at 3:40 PM on August 3, 2009
My oldest cat, AJ, was abused by one of my former boyfriends. He'd toss her from a second floor landing while I was out of the house. She was young at the time and had gone from being a cute, cuddly kitten to being a hate-filled, skittish cat. Until I walked in on him abusing her, I didn't know why. She'd do the same thing Cat B is doing: I could pet her for a minute, max, then she'd dash off and hide.
Enter the next guy in my life: AJ bit him on the ankle, drawing blood, the first chance she got. Otherwise, she wouldn't let him near her.
He, however, was persistent and put up with her antics (peeing on his side of the bed, clawing and scratching him whenever he attempted to pet her). In fact, he got very insistent and would hold her while petting her, even well past when she'd start struggling to run away. That hands-on approach... changed AJ. She calmed down and realized that no one was going to hurt her anymore, that having our attention was a good thing (lots of treats went into convincing her of this). Now, she's my lap kitty.
Maybe more of an insistent hands-on, "no, we're really not going to hurt you" approach to Cat B would help here.
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 3:59 PM on August 3, 2009
Enter the next guy in my life: AJ bit him on the ankle, drawing blood, the first chance she got. Otherwise, she wouldn't let him near her.
He, however, was persistent and put up with her antics (peeing on his side of the bed, clawing and scratching him whenever he attempted to pet her). In fact, he got very insistent and would hold her while petting her, even well past when she'd start struggling to run away. That hands-on approach... changed AJ. She calmed down and realized that no one was going to hurt her anymore, that having our attention was a good thing (lots of treats went into convincing her of this). Now, she's my lap kitty.
Maybe more of an insistent hands-on, "no, we're really not going to hurt you" approach to Cat B would help here.
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 3:59 PM on August 3, 2009
I had a cat that was evil to my mate and the other kitties in the house. I had her sequestered in the spare room 24 hours a day, and I would go in to visit for a couple of hours at a time. This went on for 5 years. She wasn't rational. While she loved me (sometimes), she could still be counted on to draw blood through biting or scratching. I can't imagine that her existence was a good one.
After three very violent incidents involving my mate, hundreds of dollars in vet bills (in which it took 7 vet techs to hold her down to draw blood, and this was WITH a muzzle), and months of kitty valium*, I took her to the animal control and put her to sleep.
Sometimes, there's just no other way.
--
* Have you ever tried to pill an angry, hostile cat?
posted by parilous at 4:05 PM on August 3, 2009
After three very violent incidents involving my mate, hundreds of dollars in vet bills (in which it took 7 vet techs to hold her down to draw blood, and this was WITH a muzzle), and months of kitty valium*, I took her to the animal control and put her to sleep.
Sometimes, there's just no other way.
--
* Have you ever tried to pill an angry, hostile cat?
posted by parilous at 4:05 PM on August 3, 2009
VERY pet loving tenants of ours had 2 rescues they adored. One was fine, the other peed everywhere no matter what.
Turns out, the pee-cat needed to be the only cat in the household.
They gave her to a "no-kill" shelter, monitored her situation. Wouldn't you know? With the understanding pee-cat must be in a single kitty household, she was adopted within weeks.
Find your fiance' cat a new, single kitty home asap.
The pee-cat is miserable. She needs an environment she in which she will flourish. Your fiance will understand this as, no pet owner wants to see an animal suffer.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 5:07 PM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Turns out, the pee-cat needed to be the only cat in the household.
They gave her to a "no-kill" shelter, monitored her situation. Wouldn't you know? With the understanding pee-cat must be in a single kitty household, she was adopted within weeks.
Find your fiance' cat a new, single kitty home asap.
The pee-cat is miserable. She needs an environment she in which she will flourish. Your fiance will understand this as, no pet owner wants to see an animal suffer.
Good luck.
posted by jbenben at 5:07 PM on August 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm in the same boat with an 'asshole' cat. He is sweet in temperment with humans but is PEEING EVERYWHERE FOR 10 YEARS. I'm sick of it. I have 2 dogs, another cat, and a 9 month old baby. I'm stressed to the max and the last thing I need is to come home and smell pee. I've put up with his puking, peeing, and I'm allergic too boot.
We got a prescription for buspar but haven't tried it. We're thinking a no kill shelter but who the heck is going to adopt an IBS, pissing cat?
I hope jbenben's experience can spill over because our cat is on it's last welcome. I think your cat needs to move out.
posted by stormpooper at 12:47 PM on October 5, 2009
We got a prescription for buspar but haven't tried it. We're thinking a no kill shelter but who the heck is going to adopt an IBS, pissing cat?
I hope jbenben's experience can spill over because our cat is on it's last welcome. I think your cat needs to move out.
posted by stormpooper at 12:47 PM on October 5, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
This is the sort of problem you need to sort before you move in. So tell your fiancée that you need to talk about the cat and that you feel strongly about it. Tell her that you can't perhaps stay calm about this issue. Make sure she knows that it's a "cat in our space" issue rather than a "cat in your space" issue.
posted by Solomon at 9:55 AM on August 3, 2009