Moving on Up
August 2, 2009 1:49 PM Subscribe
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I'm am likely to be moving to Toronto in the near future due to work. I would like to have the area I want to live in already chosen before I move to speed up the apartment hunting. I will be working near Steels and Weston to start and then the company is moving to Steels and Don Mills in about 9 months.
Can anyone recommend any neighbourhoods along that stretch of Steels Ave that are good to live in or those that should be avoided? I would like to be able to walk to as many restaurants, coffee shops and grocery stores as possible. Ideally I could get rid of my car. Bonus points if the subway is within walking distance as I love downtown TO.
I'm am likely to be moving to Toronto in the near future due to work. I would like to have the area I want to live in already chosen before I move to speed up the apartment hunting. I will be working near Steels and Weston to start and then the company is moving to Steels and Don Mills in about 9 months.
Can anyone recommend any neighbourhoods along that stretch of Steels Ave that are good to live in or those that should be avoided? I would like to be able to walk to as many restaurants, coffee shops and grocery stores as possible. Ideally I could get rid of my car. Bonus points if the subway is within walking distance as I love downtown TO.
Meerkatty is right: Steeles may as well be Nunavut for the kind of neighbourhood you are describing. In your shoes, I would live downtown and resign myself to a commute up the Yonge subway to Steeles station and then a bus. The closest I can suggest might be somewhere along Finch. In the early nineties I lived in a decent house just north of Finch and east of Yonge. The house is now long gone along with all its small charming cottagelike neighbours, and the entire street is horrid townhouses, so I have no idea where to look now.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:21 PM on August 2, 2009
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:21 PM on August 2, 2009
ditto what the above have said, steeles is the anti-neighborhood you describe. if i was in your shoes, i'd probably look for a place around the yonge-lawrence village area, which has most of the things you want. keep the car to drive to work, and home will be right on the subway/vomit-comet route for your trips downtown.
posted by sergeant sandwich at 2:32 PM on August 2, 2009
posted by sergeant sandwich at 2:32 PM on August 2, 2009
Best answer: Taking a look at the TTC ride guide (PDF) should give you an idea of how well public transit covers you. This page gives you links to smaller slices of the map and links to bus, streetcar and subway schedules.
If you're going to live way northwest for a few months, then way northeast, I think staying around the Yonge/Bloor or St. George/Bloor areas would give you the most transit options rather than optimizing for one or the other. You can go further east or west on the Bloor line as well, which would add 5-10 minutes to each commute, for another 10-20 minutes each workday. You have some options south of Bloor within walking distance of either northbound subway line, but if you get away from the east-west line and are far enough south that you have to take a streetcar to get to a subway, that adds even more time to your commute.
Look at Viewit.ca for rental listings and myhood.ca for rental reviews, and definitely come back here to ask more questions about transit, housing and neighbourhoods.
posted by maudlin at 2:44 PM on August 2, 2009
If you're going to live way northwest for a few months, then way northeast, I think staying around the Yonge/Bloor or St. George/Bloor areas would give you the most transit options rather than optimizing for one or the other. You can go further east or west on the Bloor line as well, which would add 5-10 minutes to each commute, for another 10-20 minutes each workday. You have some options south of Bloor within walking distance of either northbound subway line, but if you get away from the east-west line and are far enough south that you have to take a streetcar to get to a subway, that adds even more time to your commute.
Look at Viewit.ca for rental listings and myhood.ca for rental reviews, and definitely come back here to ask more questions about transit, housing and neighbourhoods.
posted by maudlin at 2:44 PM on August 2, 2009
Best answer: Steeles is not quite the wasteland it has been made out to be (there are nifty, if somewhat bleak, Russian-Jewish delis and specialty shop around Bathurst) but it is indeed very different from what you describe as your ideal neighborhood.
The Lawrence Village area that sergeant sandwich mentioned is the northern limit of contiguous urban life in Toronto. It's a nice area, and close enough to major roads and highways that commuting to work won't be too bad.
There are, however, pockets of urbanity and vitality north of Lawrence. Yonge Street north of Sheppard (particularly around Mel Lastman Square / North York City Centre / Empress Walk) has become really lively lately. Lots of young professionals, Persians (who love to stroll), Koreans, etc. Two big movie theaters, a very big library, Toronto Centre for the Arts, and plenty of good restaurants. It's also on the Yonge-University-Spadina line so you can get downtown in half an hour, and on the Sheppard line so you might be able to actually commute to work. Don't overlook it.
posted by limon at 2:46 PM on August 2, 2009
The Lawrence Village area that sergeant sandwich mentioned is the northern limit of contiguous urban life in Toronto. It's a nice area, and close enough to major roads and highways that commuting to work won't be too bad.
There are, however, pockets of urbanity and vitality north of Lawrence. Yonge Street north of Sheppard (particularly around Mel Lastman Square / North York City Centre / Empress Walk) has become really lively lately. Lots of young professionals, Persians (who love to stroll), Koreans, etc. Two big movie theaters, a very big library, Toronto Centre for the Arts, and plenty of good restaurants. It's also on the Yonge-University-Spadina line so you can get downtown in half an hour, and on the Sheppard line so you might be able to actually commute to work. Don't overlook it.
posted by limon at 2:46 PM on August 2, 2009
Seconding Yonge and Lawrence. It's probably your best bet for decent amenities and subway while still having a tolerable commute to work.
posted by Schlimmbesserung at 2:49 PM on August 2, 2009
posted by Schlimmbesserung at 2:49 PM on August 2, 2009
Just nthing the unfortunate reality that there are no neighborhoods with the attributes you seek along Steeles.
I agree with others that a good strategy is to find a nice neighbourhood on the north-ish segment of the Yonge line between, say, Eglinton and North York Centre (if you don't drive to work, at least you'll be on the subway going the less-crowded, counterpeak direction on the subway during rush hour); however, as an alternative you might live somewhere along the Bloor-Danforth or Sheppard subways and take a very long ride on the Don Mills bus north to Steeles from Pape (on B-D) or a much more reasonably trip from Don Mills (on Sheppard)... but that's probably not a lot of fun.
posted by onshi at 2:53 PM on August 2, 2009
I agree with others that a good strategy is to find a nice neighbourhood on the north-ish segment of the Yonge line between, say, Eglinton and North York Centre (if you don't drive to work, at least you'll be on the subway going the less-crowded, counterpeak direction on the subway during rush hour); however, as an alternative you might live somewhere along the Bloor-Danforth or Sheppard subways and take a very long ride on the Don Mills bus north to Steeles from Pape (on B-D) or a much more reasonably trip from Don Mills (on Sheppard)... but that's probably not a lot of fun.
posted by onshi at 2:53 PM on August 2, 2009
The problem with the two neighbourhoods that you describe is that neither of them are on the subway line and they're on opposite sides of the subway, as well. Fortunately, they are both on bus lines (the 60 Steeles West and 53 Steeles East) that leave from Finch Station, though, so your best bet is to pick any neighbourhood along the Yonge St subway line. If you go South of the highway (the 401, that is, which is between Sheppard and York Mills stations on the subway), rents get higher, but you get more downtowny and neighbourhoody feeling neighbourhoods.
Still, North of the Highway, along the Yonge corridor is not quite the wasteland that's been described above. Yonge & Finch, while not exactly a cultural mecca, is an area of great ethnic dining -- mostly Iranian and Korean (and, why, yes, that is an odd mix). North York Center and Sheppard stations are primarily areas with a lot of condo towers close to Yonge St, but there are grocery stores, restaurants, movie theaters, coffee shops, etc, all along that strip. A fair few of them are chains, unfortunately, but there are other shops and whatnot, too. Plus lots of little houses with mature trees and whatnot tucked in behind.
posted by jacquilynne at 2:55 PM on August 2, 2009
Still, North of the Highway, along the Yonge corridor is not quite the wasteland that's been described above. Yonge & Finch, while not exactly a cultural mecca, is an area of great ethnic dining -- mostly Iranian and Korean (and, why, yes, that is an odd mix). North York Center and Sheppard stations are primarily areas with a lot of condo towers close to Yonge St, but there are grocery stores, restaurants, movie theaters, coffee shops, etc, all along that strip. A fair few of them are chains, unfortunately, but there are other shops and whatnot, too. Plus lots of little houses with mature trees and whatnot tucked in behind.
posted by jacquilynne at 2:55 PM on August 2, 2009
I live near Yonge and Finch, and while a nice area is NOT what you're looking for. As others have said, Lawrence and south is probably where you want to live (from Eglinton it will probably take 45 minutes to Don Mills and Steeles). I had a friend who lived downtown (Bloor and Spadina) and drove to work near Don Mills and Steeles and he didn't seem to mind it too much as it's against the flow of traffic (but still pretty slow).
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:11 PM on August 2, 2009
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 4:11 PM on August 2, 2009
Sorry, no specifics but this is what I'd do:
I'd forget downtown for now. The commute would be horrible to the point where it would start to effect my job performance. Crawling along a major road in T.O. at rush hour is like slow death.
I'd try to talk to some of the folks in the department you'll be working in and see what areas they favour. Toronto can be an isolating place (especially in winter) and I made all my friends through school or work (and I moved here for college in '83 ). Concentrate on making friends first rather than finding in a cool area.
Since the weather is nice right now, I'd try to find some time to come down and drive (or better, ride a bike) around the areas near work. You only need to find a funky strip mall that has ethnic food, an acceptable coffee shop, etc. I'd chose a flat in a house or small building over a windswept, isolated hi-rise.
Toronto has a pretty low crime rate and a fewer percentage of people actively looking for trouble than you'll come across in a lot of smaller Ontario cities and towns. Just make an effort to come look around an see if you find a street corner that suits you.
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:10 PM on August 2, 2009
I'd forget downtown for now. The commute would be horrible to the point where it would start to effect my job performance. Crawling along a major road in T.O. at rush hour is like slow death.
I'd try to talk to some of the folks in the department you'll be working in and see what areas they favour. Toronto can be an isolating place (especially in winter) and I made all my friends through school or work (and I moved here for college in '83 ). Concentrate on making friends first rather than finding in a cool area.
Since the weather is nice right now, I'd try to find some time to come down and drive (or better, ride a bike) around the areas near work. You only need to find a funky strip mall that has ethnic food, an acceptable coffee shop, etc. I'd chose a flat in a house or small building over a windswept, isolated hi-rise.
Toronto has a pretty low crime rate and a fewer percentage of people actively looking for trouble than you'll come across in a lot of smaller Ontario cities and towns. Just make an effort to come look around an see if you find a street corner that suits you.
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:10 PM on August 2, 2009
Response by poster: Thank you everyone for your help! It looks like I can't have my cake and eat it too. I know downtown Toronto fairly well, having spent many weekends there catching a show and trying out new restaurants. The rest of Toronto I have yet to explore.
It seems like I should be looking somewhere on Yonge Street south of Sheppard. (That TTC ride map is very useful)
45 minutes would be the upper end of what I would like for a commute but that seems to give me a pretty large area to look at for apartments. Also if I am on the subway line I should be able to minimize my car usage which is a bonus. How consistent is the TTC? The subway seems to run all of the time, are the buses and street cars as reliable?
I'll be making time for a weekend visit or two to scout out areas and now that I have it narrowed down a bit I can take my time and get a better feel for the areas. Thanks again for the help.
posted by troll on a pony at 9:00 PM on August 2, 2009
It seems like I should be looking somewhere on Yonge Street south of Sheppard. (That TTC ride map is very useful)
45 minutes would be the upper end of what I would like for a commute but that seems to give me a pretty large area to look at for apartments. Also if I am on the subway line I should be able to minimize my car usage which is a bonus. How consistent is the TTC? The subway seems to run all of the time, are the buses and street cars as reliable?
I'll be making time for a weekend visit or two to scout out areas and now that I have it narrowed down a bit I can take my time and get a better feel for the areas. Thanks again for the help.
posted by troll on a pony at 9:00 PM on August 2, 2009
There is a neighborhood of shops around Weston Road and Lawrence. I don't know much about it, I've only ridden past a couple of times, but it isn't that great an area. Also, it really isn't that close to Steeles / Weston, and it is a million miles away from Steeles / Don Mills.
Unionville is up there somewhere, and it has something passing for a streetscape. Crazy expensive though, I expect. And, there should be something passing for a Markham city centre streetscape somewhere. Not exactly sure how to find it on the map though :P
(ahh, there it is, just north of Highway 7 along Markham Rd / Main St)
Those two are a million miles away from Weston Road, of course..
The North York Centre neighborhood (Yonge from Sheppard on north to somewhat past Finch, or semantics aside, maybe even as far north as Steeles) probably comes close to filling your expectations. Still very, very car centric neighborhoods though. Also, relatively expensive compared to much nicer choices in the old city of Toronto.
Owing to York University, the Steeles West bus is bad to middling. The Steeles East bus is horrible. I took a vow of poverty rather than ever take that bus route again--yes, really! (ya, okay, there were some other considerations too :P) Streetcars, except maybe the ones on dedicated right of ways, are always really slow. Bus routes are a very mixed bag, and optimizing your use of express routes and strategic transfers will help a lot. If you plan a commute using the subway to get north, it is absolutely critical to live near a station rather than relying on surface connecting routes. Transferring early in the trip means at least half an hour per day, but easily a lot more, and it adds an awful lot of unneeded aggravation.
Honestly, the answer to getting around this city is bicycle :) After my vow of poverty, I spent a month commuting up to the Steeles Victoria Park area. I took my bike on the subway to Don Mills / Sheppard, and then cycled the rest of the way (including the entire trip home). This took about 45 minutes each way. The TTC only trip, by comparison, routinely took 1h 15min or more each way.
posted by Chuckles at 11:55 PM on August 2, 2009
Unionville is up there somewhere, and it has something passing for a streetscape. Crazy expensive though, I expect. And, there should be something passing for a Markham city centre streetscape somewhere. Not exactly sure how to find it on the map though :P
(ahh, there it is, just north of Highway 7 along Markham Rd / Main St)
Those two are a million miles away from Weston Road, of course..
The North York Centre neighborhood (Yonge from Sheppard on north to somewhat past Finch, or semantics aside, maybe even as far north as Steeles) probably comes close to filling your expectations. Still very, very car centric neighborhoods though. Also, relatively expensive compared to much nicer choices in the old city of Toronto.
Owing to York University, the Steeles West bus is bad to middling. The Steeles East bus is horrible. I took a vow of poverty rather than ever take that bus route again--yes, really! (ya, okay, there were some other considerations too :P) Streetcars, except maybe the ones on dedicated right of ways, are always really slow. Bus routes are a very mixed bag, and optimizing your use of express routes and strategic transfers will help a lot. If you plan a commute using the subway to get north, it is absolutely critical to live near a station rather than relying on surface connecting routes. Transferring early in the trip means at least half an hour per day, but easily a lot more, and it adds an awful lot of unneeded aggravation.
Honestly, the answer to getting around this city is bicycle :) After my vow of poverty, I spent a month commuting up to the Steeles Victoria Park area. I took my bike on the subway to Don Mills / Sheppard, and then cycled the rest of the way (including the entire trip home). This took about 45 minutes each way. The TTC only trip, by comparison, routinely took 1h 15min or more each way.
posted by Chuckles at 11:55 PM on August 2, 2009
Link for that first neighborhood I mentioned: Village of Weston.
posted by Chuckles at 12:01 AM on August 3, 2009
posted by Chuckles at 12:01 AM on August 3, 2009
I'm a third generation Westoner - it's a wonderful, somewhat (very?) down on its heel place. But it's really old fashioned and working class. There are no cafes and the only arts stuff is middle aged people doing amateur theatre at the local school; there may be kareoke, but my dad's not running it any more. Used to have butchers and tailors and the kind of restaurants people sit in for hours drinking coffee and smoking cigarrettes, but factories closed and people retired and now there are mostly unemployed people and dollar stores, and the restaurant that had been a lunch counter owned by the same family for 60 years and where my mother had her first (illegal) alcohol and I drank hot chocolate when I was three and had breakfast on Saturdays after going to the farmers market when I was 12 was sold when the second generation retired and is now a really bad buffet. It's like a little bit of rustbelt Canada in the middle of Toronto. I still love it, but it's probably not what you're looking for.
posted by jb at 8:43 AM on August 3, 2009
posted by jb at 8:43 AM on August 3, 2009
Oh - and sorry, but you are working in the opposite end of the city from where you want to be living. You're best bet is to be somewhere on the subway line or a good fast bus - the Bathurst north from Bathurst and Eglinton might be good. I could tell you good suburban places to live where you could get by without a car (my family has never had one), but they would still be very suburban in character, or banlieue-like (Toronto has outskirts more like Paris than an American city - our rich are in, our poor are out). The Steeles-Weston area is a mix of residential and industrial, if I remember right. (Went to York, rode the Steeles from Islington to just past Jane all the time, totally blanked out on what that corner looks like).
posted by jb at 8:49 AM on August 3, 2009
posted by jb at 8:49 AM on August 3, 2009
As others have said, moving somewhere on the Yonge Line is probably a good idea. The fact you are going in the opposite direction of downtown will make taking it during rush hour less of a suck, to boot. (That said, most of the neighbourhoods along the Yonge Line seem way too full of yuppy ass yuppies.)
posted by chunking express at 8:05 AM on August 4, 2009
posted by chunking express at 8:05 AM on August 4, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks for all of the answers. I have just signed a lease for a condo next to the Toronto Center for the Arts. It's a little farther from downtown than I was hoping for but the neighbourhood looks great! I'm looking forward to some exploring!
posted by troll on a pony at 1:47 PM on September 2, 2009
posted by troll on a pony at 1:47 PM on September 2, 2009
Oh - that's a good area. Actually, it's just about the only area north of Eglinton that I can think of that actually has streetlife and cafes and stuff that are quite happening (I was up there on a Saturday night recently - okay, it wasn't super crowded, but it wasn't closed up - there were lots of restaurants open). Downtown is only 20-30 min away by a frequent subway, and you have 24 bus for after 2am.
posted by jb at 2:53 PM on September 2, 2009
posted by jb at 2:53 PM on September 2, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by meerkatty at 2:03 PM on August 2, 2009