Rules for a Parent in a New Relationship?

August 1, 2009 8:12 PM

It's been almost three years since my mother died, and my father has slowly been working himself back into seeing new people, but it's starting to cause major family drama. I'm 23 and live on my own in a different city, so this doesn't bother me much. But my 17 year old sister still lives with him, and she's really upset that this is going on. To make matters worse, the latest person he's seeing is my sister's favorite teacher from school. What can my dad do to ease this transition for my sister? What do both people deserve here?

We'll call the characters Dad, Sister, and Teacher for the sake of clarity.

I've been kind of caught on the middle on this, mediated between Dad and Sister. Dad's basic argument is that the extreme dad-isn't-allowed-to-date-until-I've-left-the-house desire of my sister are not fair to him. In 18 months, my sister will go off to college and he needs to start building a post-children life. Part of that involves dating, and he doesn't feel like he can just put that on pause until my sister is gone, just because she's upset about the idea. He's been really clear that this isn't about him being unhappy with her, that he's not trying to replace our mother and that he's not going to try to make us think of her as our mother. He's not going to have more kids, although Teacher does have kids of her own. He ended up dating my sister's favorite teacher, which he understands makes this much much harder for my sister, but he points out that you don't have a lot of control over who you're interested in and who's available and sometimes it's not totally perfect for everyone around you and that we should just roll with it.

Sister's grievances are many and varied. The biggest one, as far as I can tell, is jealousy. Being a single child with a single parent forges a really tight bond, and the existence of this other woman (or any other woman) makes her intensely jealous. If Dad's not around some night to help her prepare for a math test, is he with Teacher? Did he pick spending time with Teacher over her? Did Dad push Sister to go to summer camp so he could spend more time with Teacher? If he's trying to cut a phone call short, is it so he can call Teacher? Does he behave differently towards Sister when Teacher is around to impress Teacher? It just drives her crazy thinking about everything that she never had to think about before. She did genuinely like Teacher before she found out Teacher + Dad were dating, but now really dislikes her and wants never to see her again, let alone have a conversation. That switch from liking Teacher to hating Teacher is also troubling for her - what she thought was a positive relationship was instantly soured by Dad.

Then there's a bunch of other related what-ifs that are driving her crazy. If Sister hadn't told Dad how much she liked Teacher, would they not have gotten together? If Sister drags her feet enough can she make Teacher go away? Since Dad + Teacher were dating while Sister was Teacher's student, what does Sister and Teacher's previous relationship mean now?

To Dad's credit, he's been pretty communicative about this whole process, to the extent that he thinks Sister wants to know what's happening. He asked her (and my) permission to start seeing people at all, doesn't ever bring them home, doesn't push for us to meet them, etc. He want to great, great lengths (like never being in public together in our relatively small town) to avoid Sister finding out that he was seeing Teacher while Sister was taking a class from Teacher, for which Sister is indeed eternally grateful. And Teacher will not be teaching at Sister's school next year, although Sister is still wigged out by the idea that people at school will find out Dad and Teacher are together. Dad also feels like Sister is fundamentally opposed to change of any sort, and is unreasonably upset about this whole process. He's willing to do whatever he can to make this easier for her, but doesn't think her fundamental adversity to change means that she can say "no dating" entirely.

So my question is - what's reasonable here? It seems like both Dad and Sister have very normal concerns. If we posit that it's not okay for Sister to veto relationships outright, how can we help assuage her issues with the process? Should Dad be asking her permission to do different things, eg hosting a dinner party for neighbors to meet Teacher, or meeting Teacher's kids, or introducing me to Teacher. Can Sister veto specific events that she's uncomfortable with? How can he demonstrate his priorities to Sister? Really, any advice about kids dealing with parents' new relationships would be useful here, since this is new territory for all of us.

posted by anonymous to human relations (34 comments total)

Uh, maybe sister needs to grow up and deal?

Sounds like Dad is doing a lot of things right here. And sounds like Sister's behavior and feelings, while normal, really shouldn't have a place in dictating Dad's life at this point in time.

Might be good if the two of them can sit down in front of, say, maybe a family pastor or a neutral counselor and talk this out?
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:18 PM on August 1 [6 favorites has favorites]

Honestly, I think Sister is overreacting. She's not a child anymore and she is not of that age where her needs absolutely positively must come first. Dad's making an amazing effort to navigate this and I get the impression that she is just taking it and running.

Ultimately, this isn't about her, much as it sounds like she wants to make it that way. He's not foisting Teacher on her, and is making a real effort to make this palatible. Sister needs to start growing up and accepting that dad has a right to be happy, and not on her schedule.
posted by Leezie at 8:26 PM on August 1

I agree that your Sister may just have to reconcile herself with this, but I can't be the only one who thinks that dating your daughter's current teacher is at least a little bit inappropriate? I don't blame her for being upset about that particular facet of the situation.
posted by mellifluous at 8:33 PM on August 1 [8 favorites has favorites]

yeah, your dad is totally allowed to date and move on and find happiness. your sister is also totally allowed to be put off that of all the women in all the world he had to pick one from her sphere.
posted by nadawi at 8:46 PM on August 1 [1 favorite has favorites]

First, condolences on your mom. I can't imagine how hard it's been on all you to lose her.

That said, your sister is acting like a fucking lunatic 10 year old. From your description, Dad had been nothing been great in trying to take her feelings into account while she's behaved like a spoiled brat.

Had a somewhat similar issue when I started dating a woman with a child. The kid generally hated me and didn't want me around me, as I was seen as the problem preventing her parents from getting back together. One day when she was being particularly bratty about it, I picked up, looked her in the eye and gently explained that I liked her mom and would continue dating her mom as long as mom wanted me to and that I was not trying to replace her dad. I told her I hoped we would be friends at some point, but that was entirely up to her at this point. Either she could argue and fight or accept the fact that I was going to be around. She stopped acting so bratty from that point on.

So, I think it's time to lay down some lines with Sister, in a gentle way. Sorry, she doesn't get to dictate what Dad does or who he dates, that's not option, but she should feel free to ask and make requests, which Dad should make reasonable attempts to honor. Dad should also figure out some particular times that he's available just for her, say hanging around after school on the days she has math classes or Saturday afternoon is always their time to hang out, etc, etc. Dad needs to set boundaries with her, while still letting her know he's there for her. And she needs to grow the hell up.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:47 PM on August 1 [6 favorites has favorites]

I don't think I will be as harsh on Sister as others here have been on her. I lost my mum three years ago as well, and it's still something I struggle with every day. Firstly, good on your dad for actually being communicative about the situation, I assume others would be more sympathetic to Sister if Dad was even unwilling to have a conversation about what's taking place.

That being said...recently, I got the impression that my dad was flirting with a woman (not even dating) and it caused a HUGE emotional upheaval in my life and I'm 21! There were lots of emotions swirling around: betrayal, jealousy, anger, bitterness and mourning again for the loss of my mum. It was really difficult for a few days - I could barely look him in the eyes that's how much I struggled with the situation. But that's all it took. A few days. I came to realise that my dad has been extremely lonely these past couple of years and that my mother was pretty much all he had in terms of comfort, friendship and love. As his daughter was I supposed to deny him these things?

Maybe if you can frame the whole situation to Sister in terms of what your dad needs and deserves as opposed to it being about replacement and hopefully she will be able to come to terms with it soon. Also remember that it's important to listen to what she's saying and feeling even if she comes off as completely bratty and selfish. The last thing you want is for her to close off from everyone and have the resentment build up inside.

I don't think Sister should have any explicit veto powers, per se, but dad should be willing to recognize when certain situations might make her uncomfortable and then decide whether it's better to proceed or not. I feel for all three of you as you struggle through this uncertain terrain and I hope you all make it through a stronger family unit.
posted by liquorice at 9:09 PM on August 1 [11 favorites has favorites]

You know how cats and dogs are historically reputed to hate each other? I mean, there's no surprise when a dog chases a cat and a cat hisses at a dog.

The same thing goes for teenage daughters vs. women her dad is dating. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some sort of rebellion, even if the woman wasn't a teacher.

But I agree with above, which is that your lil sis needs to grow up. Her reaction may be typical, but still very typically immature.
posted by jabberjaw at 9:49 PM on August 1

Nobody has suggested therapy yet? It sounds like Sister might benefit from some external help sorting out her feelings and learning how to construct healthy grown-up-style relationships. (I am familiar with a teenager-dad-stepmom jealousy issue that was helped a lot by a weekly session with a trusted friendly psychologist.)
posted by dreamyshade at 9:59 PM on August 1

It sounds like your dad is, for the most part, doing nearly everything he can do to make the transition to post-kid life as easy as possible for your sister. The logical, rational, grown up bit of my brain congratulates him. That said, if I was in your sister's position, I think I'd be at least as upset as she is, possibly more. And frankly, I'm kind of shocked people aren't more sympathetic to her.

My parents divorced when I was 10. My dad was an abusive, alcoholic, drug addict and all around asshole. Even with that being true, it was just earth shatteringly hard when my mom started dating (when I was maybe 14 or so), even though my grown up rational bit truly wanted her to be happy to have companionship. At that stage, she was all the family my younger brothers and I had, and even the vaguest idea that someone could even being to supplant us in her affection/attention/importance was terrifying for us. My brothers and I felt like she was all we had in the world, and we were (perhaps irrationally) scared to death that anyone could replace us and leave us totally emotionally unmoored. My father was a pretty epic douche, and the dating parent thing was wildly hard. I can hardly imagine how difficult it must be in the shadow of a lost, dearly loved parent.

Now of course, we were younger than your sister and whatnot, but 1. She's about to graduate from high school and is in a major period of physical and emotional transition where she's probably desperate for a sense of safety and familiarity and 2. All things considered, she still recently lost her mom quite recently. That makes this all really scary and unsettling. Combine that with the fact that the person he's dating was a part of her otherwise stable, predictable school life, and I can totally see why she's freaked out. Fear, distress, and the feeling that the world is an unpredictable place can put even the best of us into a childlike place, even if it's not clean, clear, and rational to feel that way.

Your dad isn't doing anything wrong, but he is obviously valuing his needs before hers at a transitional time when she probably really needs him. That's not bad or wrong, but I also think it's also not unusual that it's making her flip out. Until he started dating, they were partners in grief and survivorship, and now, she probably feels like she's lost that anchor.

You're really limited in what you can do in this situation; you can't control anyone's behaviors and feelings or fix this problem, even to save them from pain. I reckon all you can do is try your best to be a stable, loving, and supportive force in your sister's life. Encouraging her to get a therapist who can function as a neutral person she can express her feelings to is probably a very good idea.
posted by mostlymartha at 10:45 PM on August 1 [12 favorites has favorites]

It's delightful that Dad's dating Sister's teacher. The three of them could be having a lot of unique fun together. It's almost as if Dad was subconsciously influenced to like Teacher because Sister liked her already. Sad for Dad that Sister's childishness is spoiling this opportunity. Seconding dreamyshade.
posted by JimN2TAW at 10:55 PM on August 1

Mr. F actually made my comment for me as he read over my shoulder: "Sister needs to suck it up, or, well, what? Five years from now she realizes she's made a mistake."

(It might not hurt for Sister to get professional sucking-up help, though.)
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 11:30 PM on August 1

Maybe I should have elaborated further as to why Dad dating Sister's current teacher was inappropriate. If the relationship had ended badly, Teacher could have retaliated by treating Sister unfairly in class. Sister's view of Teacher could have soured, ruining her favorite class. Or, if there had been some important academic/social issue in school requiring Dad to conference with Teacher, the two parties may have been unable to meet without avoidance or awkwardness or preoccupation in order to discuss Sister's issues. Or what if Dad and/or Teacher put Sister in the middle of some conflict between them? Or, conversely, what if things went well, and Teacher directed favoritism toward Sister, attracting the ire of Sister's peers? What if Dad started expecting favoritism toward Sister from Teacher? One hopes that both adults involved would be completely mature, but Dad and Teacher couldn't have known how things would turn out before hand. Romantic relationships can make people a bit crazy.

Kids are pretty much trapped in school for 9-10 months of the year, 8 hours of the day. A bad school situation has the power to make kids miserable. Dad should have waited until Sister was out of Teacher's class.
posted by mellifluous at 11:37 PM on August 1 [6 favorites has favorites]

This is simple. Your sister's life is not your father's. Neither is his life your sister's.

She has no right to dictate what he does. You state that your father is being as accommodating as possible, so, as other's have said, your father needs to lay down the law to your sister, thusly: "this is how it is...feel free to go and make your own life. Leave me to live mine."
posted by flutable at 11:37 PM on August 1

Count me in as thinking the 'she needs to grow the hell/fuck/etc. up' crowd is a bit harsh.

Okay, so she isn't handling with as much grace and maturity as anyone would like - perhaps even she would like.

But I like the idea of some sort of therapist, particularly since it's clear that kids - and at 17, I still consider her one - don't come hardwired with the skill and maturity to both understand what and how they feel, and how to process it in the best of circumstances. So there's no reason to assume that she could process losing a mother, a father dating, a father dating her teacher, and her own transition out to college really well, right off the bat.

As the thousands of self help books attest to, people still struggle to learn this stuff LONG after they moved out of their parent's home. So if she's 58, and still aggrieved, okay, a 'grow the hell up' fortune cookie is on point. But these transitions are currently happening to her, and back to back, and it may make one question one's footing and be super confusing to her as well.

Anyway, I agree that it helps to have people (repeatedly) help reflect and process, and that's what parents, friends, siblings, therapist, teacher, etc. are for. It sounds like you've been trying to support her from afar, which is great - perhaps in addition to what everyone else suggested not only suggest to her, but to her dad that a therapist could help?

If she's reluctant, because she thinks there's nothing wrong with her, but the situation is just f-ed up, and wonders why SHE should go, perhaps the following rationale might help:

Because if you're going through hell, it really helps to have a personal tour guide who knows the territory.

And if she suggests that your dad may start dating her therapist as well, feel free to roll your eyes.
posted by anitanita at 11:58 PM on August 1 [2 favorites has favorites]

She's 17. She's therefore going to find something to whinge about, whatever your Dad does. So your Dad should just go ahead and do what he needs to do. Jealousy is toxic, and pandering to it makes it worse.
posted by flabdablet at 12:22 AM on August 2 [2 favorites has favorites]

Ah these things are rarely easy - I remember when my dad started dating someone with what really was startling brevity after my parents' divorce. The problem was compounded when I didn't initially like her, and my Dad seemed to be diving headlong into a lifestyle (hers) which was quite anathemic to the fourteen years of lifestyle we had already.

Oh, the teenage arguments we had! The solution? Not one you're going to like, I fear. But time was the answer. In time my father mellowed in his identity borg tendencies, his partner became more relaxed around us, and with our lifestyle. And we came to accept, and indeed appreciate, the happiness that lady gave my dad, and in further years the happiness she gave us both vicariously and directly.

My sister - like your - sister had a bigger problem, and what helped her in the end was the realisation that if she wanted a good relationship with my dad, she needed to find a compromise that worked, because his partner was a part of his life, and therefore any relationship he had, including my sister's.

It all worked out in the end is my main theme. Relationships can be prickly, tricky things, but if both parties go in determined to make the best of it - they tend to come through with some time. Good luck.
posted by smoke at 1:56 AM on August 2

Although you say Dad has been communicative you also say Sister was not aware of the relationship between Dad and Teacher while she was still her student. That really, really isn't cool. She has every right to be upset that her father lied to her AND her teacher lied to her when she was only 16/17. The two of them really should have waited for her to be out of class, and as a distant second choice they should have been upfront with her. Lying to her about such a major thing is of course going to upset her - now she will wonder what else have the two of them been lying to her about. Not to mention now she will wonder what other people she has trusted are lying to her about (I bet she trusts you less now too). Dad has set up the failure of the three way relationship by lying (with a co-conspirer!) to a teenage girl and then blaming and guilting her for her instinctive reaction to his lies. He really should have taken the adult role here.

It sucks being a teenager, and it really sucks being a motherless teenager, and really, really sucks being a motherless teenager with a father that is putting his wants ahead of his daughter's needs. He choose to be a father and right now he should be focusing on her and not prioritising his social life over her - he really can't spend the next 18 months focused on his own child? And nthing that he is forcing his daughter to bear the repercussions of the gossip at the school she is trapped in. Would he want sister to start sleeping with HIS boss? Uh, don't mention that to her - it might give her ideas to retaliate against his (quite frankly) shitty behaviour.
posted by saucysault at 2:56 AM on August 2 [4 favorites has favorites]

That switch from liking Teacher to hating Teacher is also troubling for her - what she thought was a positive relationship was instantly soured by Dad.

No, that relationship was instantly soured by Sister.

She needs to understand that, at 17, her needs are no longer paramount. She's been probably wanting to be treated like an adult for most of her life, and now it's time to step up to the plate and start acting like one, and understand that her father needs emotional connections and a social life after she's gone. Dad is her father, not her slave, and he's in the process of transitioning into a child-free environment.

You might try to explain to Sister that in just 18 months, she's going to go to college and Dad will be all alone -- with no connections and nobody to be with. He's been in a family for 20+ years, and expecting him to wait until she's gone and only THEN start trying to assemble a new life for himself is just cruel. I'd call it viciously selfish, in fact. He's going to be deep in grief for having no family, and she wants to just trot off to college, wave, and leave him to go through that without no outside support.

Also point out that she really liked Teacher because Teacher is a good lady -- so she's very possibly good for Dad, too. The same things that she liked, Dad probably likes too. And while she may feel it's a betrayal, she's going away -- she doesn't have to live in that house anymore, all alone, after 25 years of being in a family.

Basically, it sounds like this is her first opportunity to understand what being an adult really means -- swallowing some temporary hurt because it's good for someone else in her life. Family is about taking care of everyone, not just the kids.
posted by Malor at 3:20 AM on August 2 [2 favorites has favorites]

Oh and OP, It is pretty obvious you are on your Dad's side because you are framing this as "Sister doesn't want Dad to date" but the issue is "Sister didn't expect Dad and Favourite Teacher to lie to her". Favourite Teacher was probably filling a mother-like intimate role for Sister when Sister's mother had been dead a little over a year. Sister had the natural expectation that her Dad and Teacher would, if not have her best interest at heart, at least not actively make damaging choices. You weren't betrayed by two people incredibly close to you so obviously there aren't strong emotions stirred in you but you could have a little sympathy for your Sister. It must be crazy-making for her to try and deal with her feeling of betrayal and have the two of you keep dismissing the issue as jealousy (thus HER problem to deal with and conveniently no responsibility on the part of Dad or Teacher).
posted by saucysault at 4:05 AM on August 2 [3 favorites has favorites]

Might be good if the two of them can sit down in front of, say, maybe a family pastor or a neutral counselor and talk this out?

If they come talk to me, I'm going to gently tell Dad that being a teenage girl who has lost her mother is hard enough without the extreme weirdness of having your father date a teacher that you really liked, and forcing you to reframe what had been an important and healthy relationship with an adult woman. There's been a lot of "she needs to grow up" in this thread, but I think he needs to grow up and do his main job, which is to finish parenting your sister. Eighteen more months isn't too long to wait.

I've never understood the romantic fatalist point of view: "oh, but you just can't help who you fall for." You can certainly determine who would be wise and unwise for you to date, and little sister needed Teacher to stay Teacher for a while, not Potential Stepmom. I think Dad blew this big time. Dating anyone would be problematic. Dating Sister's Teacher was doomed to stir up problems.

I also don't understand the extreme concerns about your father being all alone. There are a lot of single people in the world. It's not necessarily a horrible fate. Losing your mother was terrible, but that's a different issue. Fulfilled singlehood is certainly possible, as is re-marriage after your sister leaves the home. If he thinks that Teacher is his one chance for happiness, then I'd say he's the one thinking like a ten year old.

From my perspective, most of the reasons that could be given to say that he should start dating (he's lonely, he needs to rebuild his life, he has to work through the loss of Mom) apply double to Sister. She's lost a mother at a crucial age. She's about to enter a new and uncertain life transition, and she's still grieving Mom--especially as she continues to navigate the murky initial steps into adulthood and her own dating life. She needs her Dad to be there for her right now; and she sure doesn't need him to make things even more complicated.

Folks on AskMe have a strong tendency to deal with these questions in terms of who has the right to do what. Well, if it is rights that we are talking about, they are correct. Your Dad has the right to put his own desires first. He has the right to date any adult woman he chooses, no matter how much it disrupts and complicates Sister's life. Sister has no right to tell him that he can't do that.

But the language of rights is a pretty limited way of dealing with what is essentially a moral question. What should he do? He should be his grieving daughter's only parent as fully and intensely as possible for the next year and a half. There's lots of time left after that to seek romance.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 4:59 AM on August 2 [31 favorites has favorites]

Sister had the natural expectation that her Dad and Teacher would, if not have her best interest at heart, at least not actively make damaging choices.

1. They didn't tell her because they didn't want her distracted.
2. No damage occurred from Dad and Teacher getting together, other than Sister wigging out.

You weren't betrayed by two people incredibly close to you so obviously there aren't strong emotions stirred in you but you could have a little sympathy for your Sister.

Sister wasn't betrayed and according to the text in the post, this has nothing to do with her. If she is feeling betrayed, counseling may helpful. She's entitled to her feelings of course, but that doesn't mean her feelings come first.

It's understandable that she might not be thrilled about her dad dating again or his choice of people, but she's way over the line with her demands and Dad needs to set boundaries in his life, while reminding her that she is still loved and needed by him.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:12 AM on August 2

What should he do? He should be his grieving daughter's only parent as fully and intensely as possible for the next year and a half.

Speaking as a parent, it's important that you be there for your kids but also that you carve out a life of your own. A parent should not base life around the their children, though of course the children should be one of the primary focuses.

Sister could be gaining more time with a great teacher that she liked, but is instead thwarting that potential relationship and ruining aspects of the relationship with the one remaining parent. She can feel what she wants to feel and act as she wants to act, but the moral question applies to her also. Does she really want to sabotage her father's happiness?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:23 AM on August 2 [1 favorite has favorites]

Sister wasn't betrayed and according to the text in the post

Sneaking around behind her back and having a secret relationship is lying, big time lying. Big time lying is betrayal of trust. Sister thought one thing was her reality, but later found out it was much, much different and two people she really felt close to colluded in the deception.

I agree that Sister will eventually have to grow up, but Dad made some really childish, selfish decisions that contributed to this situation being more difficult than it needed to be.
posted by milarepa at 5:50 AM on August 2 [1 favorite has favorites]

Am I the only one who thinks Teacher is more at fault than Dad? From what I know, dating your student's parent is not terribly high up on the professional ethics scale.
posted by shiny blue object at 6:02 AM on August 2 [5 favorites has favorites]

Lots of great advice in here, there's not much I can add except to say that it is likely time will sort this out for all parties involved.

I was in your position in 1995 -- my mother had a sudden stroke and died. I was in my 20s and away at college, but my sister was 17, and a junior in high school. When my dad started dating a friend of my mother's, I understood -- he was very lonely and sad. But my sister, prone already to emotional outbursts, went absolutely berzerk for a good year and a half. I tried to help from a distance, but it sucked, and really hurt her relationship with dad.

Fast forward to the present -- my dad and my mom's friend ended up really liking each other and are very happily married, which has rejuvenated both their later lives. My sister is also happily married and breeding away, dad + wife are awesome grandparents, they're all very close.

I would be as supportive of your sister as you can, and gently explain that while you understand why she is mortified, your dad is not in the wrong here. If everyone, including Teacher, does their best to keep their cool and not do any permanent damage, hopefully it'll work itself out as she gets older and has some time to process things.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 6:28 AM on August 2 [1 favorite has favorites]

Dad needs to set boundaries in his life
And it is completely reasonable for Sister to set boundaries too - number one being don't date my teachers.
posted by saucysault at 8:11 AM on August 2 [3 favorites has favorites]

And it is completely reasonable for Sister to set boundaries too - number one being don't date my teachers.

Everyone could pick a side and argue till the cows come home about who was right and who was wrong. The larger issue is reconciling a family that has been through a traumatic event. Original poster, I think that's your role here for now and possibly in the short term. So sit down with dad and the sister and say something like this:

"Ok, this situation is getting out of control and a bit scary and it's not what mom would have wanted for us a family, to be fighting at each other."

"Dad, you have to realize that your actions, however much you didn't intend it, hurt and disrupted your daughter's life. I know you'd never do anything to purposefully hurt her, but that doesn't change or excuse the fact that you did. You should realize that and learn from this that establishing relationships with people your daughters already have relationships with can change those relationships and not always for the best. Tread carefully in the future, please."

"Sis, I know it's been hard for you and that this situation isn't fair to you. On top of having mom yanked from you, now you've had a very good relationship turned upside down by teacher and dad. That sucks. But try and see if from their side, they're attracted to each and adults and if they can give each other a bit of happiness, is that so bad? Yeah, they could have handled it better, they could and should have waited 'till you were done taking her class at the very least and that they didn't was wrong, no question. But how long are you going to stay mad at them for that? Flip the situation a bit and lets say you got pregnant at 17 and Dad got and remained so mad at you for that, he refused to interact with you much and refused to help? Would that be right?"

"The world doesn't always work as we think it should and damn if we didn't learn that lesson by mom dying now. She should have seen us graduate, start careers, met our husband, taught us things she learned about raising kids when we had our own and so many other things, but life threw us a curve ball and it was ugly and it hurt so bad, we can all still feel the pain. But we gotta live with that as best we can, by holding a bit tighter to what family we have left, but that doesn't mean we should strangle each other. For what it's worth, Dad's a bit happier now, dating Teacher and that's good. You can be angry if you want and that's ok and understandable, but ultimately it doesn't do anything to bring us or you and him closer to together. Life has thrown you another curve ball here, but this one doesn't have to be so bad. You can have a larger and ongoing relationship with Teacher, if you want. No one is forcing you to or will ever force to do meet her or like her or even deal with her, but whereas the previous curveball took someone away, this one can give more people who you like and care for. You can think about that and make a decision later, again, only if you want."

"As to now, I think you have to accept that Dad is dating Teacher, but lets talk about some boundaries. Are you ok with other's knowing about dad and teacher..."

From here, I think ya'll have to talk through every question she has above and find solutions to that makes everyone happy or least not so miserable. I think it's extremely important that you take these questions seriously, however trivial and silly they may seem, 'cause by doing so you're showing her that she's important. In terms of the boundaries, I think it's fair that she not have to do or meet anyone she doesn't want to meet, and that her home be place that Teacher doesn't come to, but otherwise, she can't dictate what other people do with their lives. Finally, I think you and Dad have to set aside some time to spend or talk with her every week so she knows and feels loved.

Good luck!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:35 AM on August 2 [3 favorites has favorites]

Dad violated sister's trust by secretly dating sister's favorite teacher. I'd imagine sister felt as if the floor had been pulled out beneath her when she discovered that the two main adult figures in her life had both intentionally deceived her.

Sister no longer trusts dad as evidenced by this passage (which you describe as jealousy, but really sounds like "has no basis to trust that dad is being honest with her with respect to teacher based on initial actions"): "If Dad's not around some night to help her prepare for a math test, is he with Teacher? Did he pick spending time with Teacher over her? Did Dad push Sister to go to summer camp so he could spend more time with Teacher? If he's trying to cut a phone call short, is it so he can call Teacher? Does he behave differently towards Sister when Teacher is around to impress Teacher? It just drives her crazy thinking about everything that she never had to think about before."

So dad needs to repair that broken trust. If I were him I'd start by acknowledging that and apologizing. He doesn't have to apologize for dating teacher, but if he can't acknowledge that the deceptive way it was initially carried out damaged his relationship with his daughter, then I'm guessing the current dynamic will continue.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 1:06 PM on August 2 [2 favorites has favorites]

My mother died when I was about your age and my younger sister was a teenager. My father started dating a few years later in a manner that made us uncomfortable. My father is not on speaking terms with his children now, and his dating decisions have a lot to do with that.

Regardless of whether your father (or you) think that your sister is wrong, he needs to know that his decision could have the result of breaking up your family. He should decide whether that's something he's prepared to sacrifice in order to have this romantic relationship at this time.
posted by decathecting at 1:41 PM on August 2 [1 favorite has favorites]

Here is a good book on this subject, here is an interview with the author.
posted by pianomover at 1:54 PM on August 2

Well, she lost her mom, and she's probably a little worried about losing her dad. And that's understandable -- she should seek out support for dealing with those feelings.

Her father should continue to date who he pleases.

But, yeah, my guess would be it's more about losing mom than about dad dating the teacher.

At 17, though, who's that self-aware? No reason she should be the one kid expected to be. But that doesn't make her exempt from addressing it.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:42 PM on August 2

All the jealousy is based on a fear of losing her dad. She just lost her mom. It's not unfathomable to her that she could lose her dad too. Maybe she's losing him to another woman. Maybe he's changing and she doesn't know him as well anymore. Is she important to him? I suspect the most healing thing your dad can do is to assure her on all these points, in words and in actions on a regular and consistent basis. Dad-daughter dates. Chats. Etc. Having a night every week that is for them and which Teacher can't interfere with or participate in. Something that is reassuring to your sister that dad loves her and isn't going away.

I also wanted to note that you're the oldest, and you're coming here for advice on how to solve the situation, which is a pretty typical oldest-child thing to do. Please remember that you're not responsible for your father and sister's relationships. If they're fighting, it's not necessarily up to you to fix it. It's nice that you try, but you don't necessarily have to be the mediator. It's a position we oldest children seem to jump into all-too-readily. Make sure you're not taking on too much of their stress or getting drawn into the fight.
posted by heatherann at 5:15 PM on August 2 [1 favorite has favorites]

Concrete suggestion ahead:

Can your dad carve out some time in his week to spend exclusively with your sister. I don't mean "well they see each other every day at breakfast", but one evening a week where they do whatever she wants, and Teacher is never, ever invited. (on preview, what heatherann said)

And don't ever expect a 17yr old to be rational, especially when it comes to relationships as fundamental as the one with her dad.
posted by kjs4 at 7:43 PM on August 2

I am disappointed so many who answered this question did not put the needs of a grieving 17 year old Daughter above the feelings of her adult Father.

It is so crystal clear the Teacher and the Father broke Trust. Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised if the Teacher was breaking some sort of ethics code in her contract by dating a parent. For exercising such poor poor judgement in her role as a Teacher, I hope the Teacher gets reprimanded or fired.

Sadly, there is no ethics committee to cite the Father in this situation.

I doubt very highly the dating situation would have been so highly emotionally charged for the Daughter/Sister/Student if her Dad wasn't dating and sleeping with her favorite teacher. That's just emotionally dirty (on the part of the Dad and Teacher.)

Ahem.

Now that my indignation is out of the way, I nth everything that Pater Aletheias wrote!
posted by jbenben at 9:48 AM on August 4