Between waking and sleep
July 30, 2009 7:42 AM Subscribe
How can I help my wonderful 18 month old girl to find her way to sleep?
She's a great sleeper in general; sleeps from 8ish to 7ish every night, occasional murmurs and squeaks but she's a sound sleeper and normally wakes up bright as a button. She's fine during the day too; smart, bright and cheery. Inbetween times, however, she has a lot of trouble.
We have a regular bedtime routine; bath then upstairs to her darkened bedroom, stories and songs then (when she is ready), lights dimmed and she goes into her cot. Last night she was so eager for sleep, she almost forced her way out of my arms and into her cot.
However, once she is in her cot she starts to wail. And wail. And wail. She will shout for around half an hour; not traumatised cries but real unhappy protests. Eventually she wears herself out and drops into sleep. I dont understand why; she is tired, she wants to sleep and she sleeps likes sleeping.
Staying with her doesnt really help, she's rejected every soft toy/comforter/guardian which we've tried to give her, shushing and gently rubbing her can help to sooth her, but, fundamentally, she finds the path from waking to sleeping a very very difficult journey.
Is there anything I can do? Should I be doing anything?
She's a great sleeper in general; sleeps from 8ish to 7ish every night, occasional murmurs and squeaks but she's a sound sleeper and normally wakes up bright as a button. She's fine during the day too; smart, bright and cheery. Inbetween times, however, she has a lot of trouble.
We have a regular bedtime routine; bath then upstairs to her darkened bedroom, stories and songs then (when she is ready), lights dimmed and she goes into her cot. Last night she was so eager for sleep, she almost forced her way out of my arms and into her cot.
However, once she is in her cot she starts to wail. And wail. And wail. She will shout for around half an hour; not traumatised cries but real unhappy protests. Eventually she wears herself out and drops into sleep. I dont understand why; she is tired, she wants to sleep and she sleeps likes sleeping.
Staying with her doesnt really help, she's rejected every soft toy/comforter/guardian which we've tried to give her, shushing and gently rubbing her can help to sooth her, but, fundamentally, she finds the path from waking to sleeping a very very difficult journey.
Is there anything I can do? Should I be doing anything?
All that being said, periods of loudly complaining himself to sleep did come and go with my son: I did find that avoiding actually going in and soothing/distracting him unless mere protesting/yelling gave way to actual serious distress seemed to resolve these periods more quickly.
posted by nanojath at 8:04 AM on July 30, 2009
posted by nanojath at 8:04 AM on July 30, 2009
I have a 14 month old, and my favorite source of answers for this type of question is the American Academy of Pediatrics. You can drive yourself crazy reading 15 sets of advice from 15 different books. I trust the AAPs advice because it's the distilled wisdom of 1000s of pediatricians. Anyway, here's what they recommend:
Follow the routine that you described. Put her to bed and let her cry for 5 minutes. Go into the room and soothe her as best you can without picking her up. Leave the room for 10 minutes. Repeat. 15 minutes. Repeat. The idea is that she gains confidence that you are nearby and available. You can whisper to her and rub her back, but that's it. If she's standing, try to get her to lie down.
posted by diogenes at 8:10 AM on July 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Follow the routine that you described. Put her to bed and let her cry for 5 minutes. Go into the room and soothe her as best you can without picking her up. Leave the room for 10 minutes. Repeat. 15 minutes. Repeat. The idea is that she gains confidence that you are nearby and available. You can whisper to her and rub her back, but that's it. If she's standing, try to get her to lie down.
posted by diogenes at 8:10 AM on July 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
The evening routine for our 27-month-old boy involves bath, and then a little television and maybe 6 oz of milk. He's real active during the day, and after his evening routine he's usually quite subdued and watches 10-15 mins of Oswald or Pinky Dinky Doo (two of the more low-key kids shows - ie not Lazytown or Yo Gabba Gabba) before we ask him to say bye to the characters on TV, then turn the TV off, then bye to mum (or dad, depending on who's carrying him to bed). After that it's anything from 0 to 300 seconds awake before he's out like a light. I also second "Healthy Sleep Habits - Happy Baby" and not taking them past the time they SHOULD be asleep. Need to wind down at that time - stories might be fun but perhaps too much fun and excitement. Ours likes to have a book with pictures in his lap too - will alternate between watching TV and pointing to the book - "apple", "boat" etc.
As far as stuffed toys in the crib go, we bought a couple of really good ones from Ikea. We got the Gosig Terrier and the Klappar Skalbagge. He says hi to them when laying him in his crib and then "niiight!" when we leave the room.
Seconding not going in immediately with crying etc, or they'll realise it's a signal to retrieve your presence at any time. Judge when you should do this - sometimes it's a legit cry because they've wet or shat themselves.
posted by cyniczny at 8:19 AM on July 30, 2009
As far as stuffed toys in the crib go, we bought a couple of really good ones from Ikea. We got the Gosig Terrier and the Klappar Skalbagge. He says hi to them when laying him in his crib and then "niiight!" when we leave the room.
Seconding not going in immediately with crying etc, or they'll realise it's a signal to retrieve your presence at any time. Judge when you should do this - sometimes it's a legit cry because they've wet or shat themselves.
posted by cyniczny at 8:19 AM on July 30, 2009
We followed a method similar to what diogenes recommends above with our two kids; it worked just fine. It took about a week, and then they were fine. Consistency was the hardest part.
posted by jenkinsEar at 8:24 AM on July 30, 2009
posted by jenkinsEar at 8:24 AM on July 30, 2009
Sounds like you're actually doing the right thing-- just letting her cry it out. You can discretely stick your head in to make sure she hasn't hurt herself, but giving her a lot of attention will just prolong the agony and make it harder for her to teach herself how to get to sleep. It sounds awful, but it's the only way. With our son we tried staying with him cajoling him all that stuff, but what finally worked was letting him cry it out. And I'm talking it got so bad it was 6 hours of "crying it out." I felt like a child abuser (many people will tell you that's what I was). She also might be one of those kids who has trouble with transitions. My daughter manifested this during the day-- in any new situation she had to eat something, it was kind of her way of connecting one thing with another (we're talking 3 or 4 cheerios, but it was an immutable ritual). If you can take it, just keep doing what you're doing and she'll find her way through.
posted by nax at 8:33 AM on July 30, 2009
posted by nax at 8:33 AM on July 30, 2009
She will shout for around half an hour; not traumatised cries but real unhappy protests.
I can't offer much on this--we pick up our 12 month old if she goes on like this too long, or if her shouts cross into the territory of really upset. Basically we give her time to settle down and if she doesn't we go get her, but I wanted to tell you that we call the protests you're describing "filling out complaint cards."
posted by A Terrible Llama at 8:47 AM on July 30, 2009
I can't offer much on this--we pick up our 12 month old if she goes on like this too long, or if her shouts cross into the territory of really upset. Basically we give her time to settle down and if she doesn't we go get her, but I wanted to tell you that we call the protests you're describing "filling out complaint cards."
posted by A Terrible Llama at 8:47 AM on July 30, 2009
It sounds awful, but it's the only way is nonsense -- the 'it's the only way' part, at least. You need not and should not abandon a crying tot. A half hour is a lot of shouting.
2nd nanojath re. trying earlier bedtime and tiring out outdoors.
Here, bedtime rolls like this: bath, quiet play, stories, nursing/cuddling on the bed, zzz. Dad does naps by just lying down, offering cuddles, until they're both asleep together.
The history of pediatrics involves a great deal of bad advice to parents and some sleep advice that comes out of the AAP and Weissbluth is not really sound (qv).
Personally, I would think about finding a nice, longish, not too exciting book or little pile of books, a large comfortable chair, and reading until she dozes off on you. A nice habit that will pay off on the literacy front as well.
posted by kmennie at 9:32 AM on July 30, 2009
2nd nanojath re. trying earlier bedtime and tiring out outdoors.
Here, bedtime rolls like this: bath, quiet play, stories, nursing/cuddling on the bed, zzz. Dad does naps by just lying down, offering cuddles, until they're both asleep together.
The history of pediatrics involves a great deal of bad advice to parents and some sleep advice that comes out of the AAP and Weissbluth is not really sound (qv).
Personally, I would think about finding a nice, longish, not too exciting book or little pile of books, a large comfortable chair, and reading until she dozes off on you. A nice habit that will pay off on the literacy front as well.
posted by kmennie at 9:32 AM on July 30, 2009
We had the exact problem you have, and a few changes helped us:
-- a change to a MUCH less involved bedtime routine: 2 stories instead of several; one short song like "Jesus Loves Me" as I walk her into her room and put her down, and a quick "night-night" to her dad and sister
-- a sound machine (waterfall sounds) that triggers "this is bedtime" for her
-- motrin before bedtime, based on weight rather than age (for teething pain)
-- aquaphor on her skin after bedtime, since I think she was getting itchy at night from dry skin
-- a blankie she could cuddle and a few board books at the opposite end of the crib if she wanted to entertain herself
Oh, and if she started wailing, I wait a few minutes and went in, laid her back down without getting her out of the crib, and sang "Jesus Loves Me" softly again as I exited, even if she was sobbing.
Know that it WILL get better -- we went from getting up 4 times a night, or at least not being able to have quiet til well over an hour after bedtime, pretty quickly once we shortened the bedtime routine and added motrin, especially.
posted by mdiskin at 9:59 AM on July 30, 2009
-- a change to a MUCH less involved bedtime routine: 2 stories instead of several; one short song like "Jesus Loves Me" as I walk her into her room and put her down, and a quick "night-night" to her dad and sister
-- a sound machine (waterfall sounds) that triggers "this is bedtime" for her
-- motrin before bedtime, based on weight rather than age (for teething pain)
-- aquaphor on her skin after bedtime, since I think she was getting itchy at night from dry skin
-- a blankie she could cuddle and a few board books at the opposite end of the crib if she wanted to entertain herself
Oh, and if she started wailing, I wait a few minutes and went in, laid her back down without getting her out of the crib, and sang "Jesus Loves Me" softly again as I exited, even if she was sobbing.
Know that it WILL get better -- we went from getting up 4 times a night, or at least not being able to have quiet til well over an hour after bedtime, pretty quickly once we shortened the bedtime routine and added motrin, especially.
posted by mdiskin at 9:59 AM on July 30, 2009
The history of pediatrics involves a great deal of bad advice to parents and some sleep advice that comes out of the AAP and Weissbluth is not really sound
The history of medicine involves a great deal of bad advice, but I'm not about to stop going to the doctor and take up homeopathy.
I don't see anything in your link that suggests that the sleep advice coming from the AAP is unsound. The article argues (convincingly) that more research on the effects of crying it out is needed for children under one, but that doesn't make the AAPs advice unsound. And it doesn't apply at all to children over one (which is what we're talking about).
I'm not sure what you are advocating as an alternative. The AAP makes recommendations based on an examination of the latest research. Sure, more research is needed, but you have to work with the evidence you have. What's the alternative?
posted by diogenes at 10:04 AM on July 30, 2009
The history of medicine involves a great deal of bad advice, but I'm not about to stop going to the doctor and take up homeopathy.
I don't see anything in your link that suggests that the sleep advice coming from the AAP is unsound. The article argues (convincingly) that more research on the effects of crying it out is needed for children under one, but that doesn't make the AAPs advice unsound. And it doesn't apply at all to children over one (which is what we're talking about).
I'm not sure what you are advocating as an alternative. The AAP makes recommendations based on an examination of the latest research. Sure, more research is needed, but you have to work with the evidence you have. What's the alternative?
posted by diogenes at 10:04 AM on July 30, 2009
I forget what 18 month olds can do, but if she has a favorite doll or soft toy, you could ask her to put "Baby" to bed and see what she does, how she goes about it and what happens. Might give you some clues to what she wants/needs or what's going on. Also, a book on tape may catch her interest in a mellow way and give you a way out of the room, pre-sleep, that doesn't involve crying. I Nth the putting her down a half hour earlier and working on nap sleep, too.
posted by cocoagirl at 10:44 AM on July 30, 2009
posted by cocoagirl at 10:44 AM on July 30, 2009
I agree with the advice to try to get her into the crib earlier.
Don't know that it was the best thing to do, but when our child went through a phase of this, one of us would lie down on the floor next to the crib and hold his hand while he went to sleep. After a couple of months we got tired of doing this and just stopped. He wailed the first night, but not after that.
posted by lakeroon at 1:03 PM on July 30, 2009
Don't know that it was the best thing to do, but when our child went through a phase of this, one of us would lie down on the floor next to the crib and hold his hand while he went to sleep. After a couple of months we got tired of doing this and just stopped. He wailed the first night, but not after that.
posted by lakeroon at 1:03 PM on July 30, 2009
Nthing the opinion that you're doing everything right. We used to leave some music playing. Back then it was Rampal's flute music as it was quiet and something that didn't drive me nuts. It helped as DD#1 could bellow for well over half an hour if you let her. She seemed to concentrate on the music and forget to yell.
posted by x46 at 1:08 PM on July 30, 2009
posted by x46 at 1:08 PM on July 30, 2009
I feel your pain! My child (same age) used to LOVE going to sleep. Just saying "are your ready to go night-night?" And she would kiss everything in sight, wave her good-byes and merrily head to her crib. Out of nowhere this has changed and she is now fighting naps, bed times and other things as well - doesn't want her high chair or car seat. I think it is just their age, they want to be independent and make the decisions for themselves, as well as be where YOU are at all times.
I don't know what else you can do except let 'em cry. They do EVENTUALLY fall asleep, even if it seems to. take. for.ever. You could try letting her take a small bottle of water in with her, if you are not opposed to that. Maybe a fan turned on a mobile or something hanging (so it pushes gently in the breeze and she can focus on that.) Could you try another diaper or different Pajamas? Teeth could be an issue, bug bites, or just growing pains.
Maybe you could hand her a picture of you (one you don't mind getting destroyed) so she'll have that with her. Or, you could sit and read a book silently near her while she lies in her bed. So she knows you are near and she is not missing any of the action, but she is not being engaged in any way.
posted by boulder20something at 1:22 PM on July 30, 2009
I don't know what else you can do except let 'em cry. They do EVENTUALLY fall asleep, even if it seems to. take. for.ever. You could try letting her take a small bottle of water in with her, if you are not opposed to that. Maybe a fan turned on a mobile or something hanging (so it pushes gently in the breeze and she can focus on that.) Could you try another diaper or different Pajamas? Teeth could be an issue, bug bites, or just growing pains.
Maybe you could hand her a picture of you (one you don't mind getting destroyed) so she'll have that with her. Or, you could sit and read a book silently near her while she lies in her bed. So she knows you are near and she is not missing any of the action, but she is not being engaged in any way.
posted by boulder20something at 1:22 PM on July 30, 2009
Has this wailing started recently or has it always been? If it's a recent thing, it might be attributable to teething pain. According to my 21 month old, getting molars is No. Fun. At. All. and that discomfort may come to the front of a babe's mind when all other stimulating and distracting stuff is removed (like at bedtime). You might try giving her a dose of Tylenol or Motrin a half hour before bedtime and see whether it helps at all.
I myself don't advocate "cry-it-out" under any circumstance, but that's just because the sound of a baby (and yes, 18 months is still a baby in my eyes) crying gives me a physiological sort of fight-or-flight response and I just can't handle it.
posted by fancyoats at 2:35 PM on July 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
I myself don't advocate "cry-it-out" under any circumstance, but that's just because the sound of a baby (and yes, 18 months is still a baby in my eyes) crying gives me a physiological sort of fight-or-flight response and I just can't handle it.
posted by fancyoats at 2:35 PM on July 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
You don't mention whether or not your daughter naps. But I agree with the posters above that she absolutely sounds as though she's overtired to the point of not being able to fall asleep easily.
Do you have any sort of music that she listens to in order to help queue her brain into realising it's time to shut down and sleep? Both my kids had that aquarium that you attach to the side of the crib. One outgrew it. The other one, who will be five in December STILL loves it and we have it tied to the side of her daybed with a big, bright yellow grosgrain ribbon. She absolutely listens to her 'fish music' every night when she goes to bed, and it's not uncommon for me to hear her hit the big button to set it off if she wakes in the middle of the night for a potty run, or if she's just awakened for some other reason. In her head, fish music absolutely, positively = sleep.
You also don't say what *time* you start the bath, stories, songs, etc. I would try and start those earlier, so that your goal is to actually get her in her bed at around 7pm. And when you start those stories, do it in an already dimmed and somewhat cool room, using a quiet voice. Read gentle books, and sing gentle songs (no rousing hokey pokey-type ones).
Finally, try giving her some Motrin (absolutely based on weight *not* age) for a few nights to see if this makes a difference. Teething at this age has a huge impact on their ability to sleep, especially when they have their head down, and pressure is increased on their jaws. If you're not sure on the dosage, here is a chart (scroll down). I always had significantly more success with Ibuprofen than with Acetaminophen, both for its anti-inflammatory properties, but also for its duration. But you can also find a chart for Acetaminophen here (scroll down), if you'd rather try that.
Good luck!
posted by dancinglamb at 5:09 PM on July 30, 2009
Do you have any sort of music that she listens to in order to help queue her brain into realising it's time to shut down and sleep? Both my kids had that aquarium that you attach to the side of the crib. One outgrew it. The other one, who will be five in December STILL loves it and we have it tied to the side of her daybed with a big, bright yellow grosgrain ribbon. She absolutely listens to her 'fish music' every night when she goes to bed, and it's not uncommon for me to hear her hit the big button to set it off if she wakes in the middle of the night for a potty run, or if she's just awakened for some other reason. In her head, fish music absolutely, positively = sleep.
You also don't say what *time* you start the bath, stories, songs, etc. I would try and start those earlier, so that your goal is to actually get her in her bed at around 7pm. And when you start those stories, do it in an already dimmed and somewhat cool room, using a quiet voice. Read gentle books, and sing gentle songs (no rousing hokey pokey-type ones).
Finally, try giving her some Motrin (absolutely based on weight *not* age) for a few nights to see if this makes a difference. Teething at this age has a huge impact on their ability to sleep, especially when they have their head down, and pressure is increased on their jaws. If you're not sure on the dosage, here is a chart (scroll down). I always had significantly more success with Ibuprofen than with Acetaminophen, both for its anti-inflammatory properties, but also for its duration. But you can also find a chart for Acetaminophen here (scroll down), if you'd rather try that.
Good luck!
posted by dancinglamb at 5:09 PM on July 30, 2009
You could also try putting a heating pad set on "low" in the cot a few minutes before setting her down, and then taking it out before you put her in. It might be that transitioning from lovely warm arms onto a cool sheet is annoying her.
Make sure the heating pad doesn't get the sheet too hot, though--I'm amazed at how warm my "low" setting is.
posted by corey flood at 8:15 PM on July 30, 2009
Make sure the heating pad doesn't get the sheet too hot, though--I'm amazed at how warm my "low" setting is.
posted by corey flood at 8:15 PM on July 30, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
Similarly does she nap? I found promoting (enforcing might be a better word) naps made evening sleep go better, perhaps contrary to expectations.
I've recommended this book before. It helped us a lot. It advocates identifying a sort of sweet spot where sleep comes easily based on the child's behavior, but I have to say I never really felt like we got that. But the general advice on promoting sleep and the guidelines on how much you would expect children to sleep at different ages was really useful to me. The author strongly advocates the idea that most bad behavior around sleeping involves not getting enough sleep rather than getting too much - getting to bed too late or skipping naps - and I was quite dubious about this premise but for us it really worked - the baby was indeed ready to go to sleep significantly earlier than I expected and it all went much more smoothly.
The other piece of advise I've always found to be true is that spending plenty of time outside promotes good sleep. I have always tried to get out with my child in all but the most extreme weather.
posted by nanojath at 8:01 AM on July 30, 2009 [1 favorite]