Whither, or withered, the French stride?

July 28, 2009 10:04 PM

Did French women really used to walk differently?

I remember reading or hearing somewhere once that French women up until about the 1930s used to walk differently than in North America. However, with the rise in popularity of American cinema in France, this changed.

The different characteristics I believe, were:

– arms straighter out
– longer gait

Did anyone ever hear of this or know where this idea comes from?

P.S. I would argue French women today still do walk slightly differently; sharper upturns of the head and a shorter stride than North Americans now. But that's just pure conjecture, and I'd rather just find out if anyone knows anything about the original question.

posted by fantasticninety to grab bag (12 comments total)

If you're able to notice it, people from most every different culture have a slightly different walk. Their movements tend to be tied to emotional postures which are in turn tied to their internal sense of identity that is in turn conditioned by such factors as nationality. Same goes for laughter and dancing. It's not an exact science, and with globalization the lines are mor blurry now, but part of what makes someone a particular culture is expressed in their movements. It's probably close to 100% imitation rather than hereditary, however.
posted by Burhanistan at 10:17 PM on July 28 [1 favorite]

In France, throughout the 20th century, and into the 21st, being classified as a peasant was not, and is not, a derogatory term. Indeed, French peasants are those closest to the land, and credited with maintaining much of the traditional folklore and "wisdom of the land." Peasant women wore sensible shoes, in comparison to their Parisian sisters. The peasant's walk was meant to cover ground, and sometimes, to do so while leading animals, or following hounds, or carrying a load. The Parisian woman's gait was meant, in the courts of Louis XIV and his progeny, thanks to his shoemaker Nicholas Lestage to swing large skirts in interesting ways, and was helped by such innovations as the high heel. In Louis XV's court, women were already resorting to taping their feet to emulate the diminutive Madame de Pompadour, even to the point that ladies in waiting sometimes fainted, from pain, on rising to their feet.

There are French gaits, and then, there have always been, gaits for France (and Paris!), my friend.
posted by paulsc at 10:33 PM on July 28 [2 favorites]

Burhanistan has it right -- every culture has a slightly different walk. Living in France (originally from the US, Oregon to be precise), the main difference I see is that French people are more relaxed and quietly confident. There are almost no "power walkers", it's seen as somewhat pretentious to walk like that.

As for paulsc's comment, sorry to further the derail but I feel it needs corrected — first, there has been no classification of "peasant" in France in the 20th and 21st centuries, just as there is none in the US. Second, if by that you mean farmers and those who work the land, while they are given a measure of respect, they most certainly are not given the same respect and value as Parisians. Indeed, anyone who's spent time in France (and who speaks French) knows that "provincial" is somewhat of an insult, and "provincial" means anyone who doesn't live in Paris! I have some French friends who are "paysans" (the word does not necessarily mean farmers or peasants, but can also apply to people who live in the countryside) and they have a rough time being taken as seriously as city-residing "provincials". We do the same thing in the US with people from the South, the Midwest...
posted by fraula at 12:59 AM on July 29 [1 favorite]

In France, throughout the 20th century, and into the 21st, being classified as a peasant was not, and is not, a derogatory term.

Sorry, but this statement is so vague as to be close to meaningless. Which France? Which part of France? Which French? From where? Classified by whom?

There is little sentiment attached to the term "paysan" in French, in my experience.

Vanishingly little, nonobstant a passing fashion for shepherdesses in C17. Perhaps you allude to a "fourberies de Scapin" kind of thing. I know not.
posted by Wolof at 1:02 AM on July 29 [1 favorite]

"... I have some French friends who are "paysans" (the word does not necessarily mean farmers or peasants, but can also apply to people who live in the countryside) and they have a rough time being taken as seriously as city-residing "provincials". We do the same thing in the US with people from the South, the Midwest..."
posted by fraula at 3:59 AM on July 29 [+] [!]

And I have friends in Avignon, Nice and Cannes, who chuckle and count Paris money, every August, when Paris empties out, as the "non-provincials" invade on holiday. I know the feeling, as a Floridian who welcomes Northern snowbirds to rent rooms in a motel in which I'm an investor, every January.

The rest of the year, some of my friends rent rooms to such other travelers as happen by, and some sell bottled water to those who don't drink wine. One digs in his dirt, and comes up with lavender, and collects a little rent from the small house on the edge of his property that commands much larger sums when the Parisians are down for holiday.
posted by paulsc at 1:23 AM on July 29

I can't really answer your specific question. But I imagine shoe fashion would be more relevant for this question than cinema? Wikipedia says:

"The late 18th-Century trend toward lower heels had much to do with the French Revolution. During the revolution, high heels became associated with opulence. Since people wished to avoid the appearance of wealth, heels were largely eliminated from the common market for both men and women. In the wake of the French Revolution heels become lower than at any time in the 18th century."

One can imagine that this would have had a big influence on french gait, and that it would have changed later with the gradual re-introduction of high heels in the 20th century. (Pure speculation...)

I'm a bit confused about the "typical" american way of walking as described in this thread. Many Americans (at least the tourists who come to Europe, and the people I've seen in Florida), take rather short steps (as opposed to what the OP mentioned in "more inside"), keep their backs very straight, and sway from side to side, I think you could call it "waddling". I've seen this in old and young, obese as well as skinny Americans. You could often distinguish, e.g. between a group of young people from America and a group from England just by comparing their gait. I have never seen the (American) "power walkers" fraula mentions, maybe this is just a big city thing?

I haven't noticed any differences between Europeans in this regard (comparing Germany/France, also Italy, England, and Spain), but the US/Europe difference is definitely noticeable.
posted by The Toad at 2:59 AM on July 29

fraula: Indeed, anyone who's spent time in France (and who speaks French) knows that "provincial" is somewhat of an insult, and "provincial" means anyone who doesn't live in Paris!

Now, I should probably preface this by saying that I've never been to France, so I have absolutely no insight to offer on the country, or its culture. However, being from a rural background and having my roots in a very rural area myself, I have what I believe to be insight to offer about culture.

I reckon that "provincial" is only considered insulting by someone who lives in Paris (or another city), and the relatively young and those with societal 'aspirations' in the country. In Denmark (where I'm from) being called provincial or even a Jyde (from the Jutland peninsula) is considered condescending and insulting by people from Copenhagen. Similarly, terms like 'townie' and Københavner (Copenhagener) are insults in the provinces. Here in the UK, if you head out to smaller villages in the West Country, the West Highlands, or even just the north of England people won't exactly speak fondly of Londoners. So to say that farmers or those from rural areas are ascribed lower societal value is likely to only be true within cities, assuming even the slightest similarity in French cultural dynamics to those of other European countries.
posted by Brother Dysk at 3:04 AM on July 29

I'm not sure if it talks about changes in women's gait, but Marcel Mauss wrote the scholarly article "Techniques of the Body" in the early part of the last century, and he describes a number of ways in which people move their bodies, and I think discusses some recent changes (in his time--the running is fascinating. He also expounds on what a shame it is that women aren't taught to spit). It's probably not what you read, but it might provide some clues. Memail me if you want a copy.
posted by carmen at 6:35 AM on July 29

IAF (I am French. From Paris, even).

I have some French friends who are "paysans" (the word does not necessarily mean farmers or peasants, but can also apply to people who live in the countryside)

Err, no. A "paysan" is someone who basically works with the land (or cattle). People who simply live in the countryside ("la campagne") could be called "campagnards", but more generally, as you say, they are part of "la Province" (= not Paris+suburbs), and therefore would be called "des provinciaux".

Note that "la province" includes everything that is not Paris and its suburbs, and that include all the other major cities such as Marseille, Lyon, Lille, Bordeaux or the others. That's what you get when everything is centralized in a single region.

So, being a "provincial" is first and foremost a fact (= "I am not from Paris"). It can get derogatory (just as "paysan" could) depending on the orator. Not all Parisian consider "les provinciaux" to be of lesser intelligence than them.

In the same way, being called a "parisien" can be derogatory if you are from the province. Even worse: being "un parigot" (slang term), such as the saying says: "parisiens, têtes de chiens, parigots, têtes de veaux" (comparing parisians to dogs and veals(=stupid)).

So there's an obvious fight between Paris and the Province, but there also are "sub-fights" within the regions of the Province. You can see that for yourself with the great 1931 Pagnol movie "Marius" (and the equally wonderful follow-ups "Fanny" and "Cesar"). All the protagonists are from Marseille (hence, in the Province): laid back, cheerful, etc. But one of their friend, Aldebert Brun, is from Lyon (still the province, but midway between Paris and Marseille): he's tinier, a little shy, with a little hat, speaks slowly.
And in the third movie, when it turns out the kid went to study in Paris...! Ah la la! :)
posted by XiBe at 6:43 AM on July 29 [2 favorites]

And I have friends in Avignon, Nice and Cannes, who chuckle and count Paris money, every August, when Paris empties out, as the "non-provincials" invade on holiday.

Being familiar with Avignon, Nice, and Cannes, I can tell you that while they are not Paris, they sure aren't the country, either. I'm fond of Provence aussi, but cannot fathom what any of this has to do with how French women walk.

I agree with Burhanistan that typical body language, including gait, is usually different between different cultures.

However, what is likely more relevant is that French women are credited with mystery, cachet and wonder in all things. (Except politeness.) Much like their alleged skill as lovers and seductresses, preternaturally perfect breasts, willowy beauty, effortlessly fashion-forward sense of style...
posted by desuetude at 8:14 AM on July 29

Some interesting answers here. In regards to what TheToad said, you could be perfectly right, and I appreciate you adding those specifics.

As well, in regards to paulsc mentioned, I definitely think that there's something to the idea of the longer stride with the paysans.

After much thinking about it, I think I heard the reference on a French radio talk show so it's pretty much impossible for me to find the reference again. If anyone comes across anything in the future, please memail on this.

Thanks!
posted by fantasticninety at 8:22 AM on July 29

FYI, the Mauss article Carmen references explicitly mentions the idea you're talking about -- that French women's gait changed after the introduction of Hollywood cinema. It was published originally in 1936.

Here's the full citation: Mauss, Marcel. [1936] 1973. “Techniques of the Body.” Economy and Society 2: 70-88.
posted by artemisia at 9:57 AM on July 29