Working out from skinny fat to skinny buff
July 28, 2009 4:18 PM
I am skinny and flabby and weak. I recently went to a kickboxing class (free day pass at NYSC) and was appalled by how much I sucked. And how weak I am. I am a 29 yr old woman, 5 ft 4 inches, and around 108 lbs. This is the most I have ever weighed. Since I have always been super thin, I never really exercised or watched what I ate. I need a workout regimen, that I can mostly do at home. My goals are to be able to do push-ups, sit-ups, and take a few flight of stairs without getting winded.
I was hoping that a kickboxing video I bought way back would be a good start but the steps completely throw me off, I forget my left from my right and just end up flailing about. For some reason I am not able to follow step sequences. The class was quite a hilarious disaster.
A gym membership is too pricey so I am looking for exercises that I can do at home. Any recs for good cardio and strength oriented stuff would be much appreciated. I don't want to lose any weight since I am already on the bony side minus my potbelly. Which I would also like to do away with. I can not do one single pushup. Only the girly kind.
I was hoping that a kickboxing video I bought way back would be a good start but the steps completely throw me off, I forget my left from my right and just end up flailing about. For some reason I am not able to follow step sequences. The class was quite a hilarious disaster.
A gym membership is too pricey so I am looking for exercises that I can do at home. Any recs for good cardio and strength oriented stuff would be much appreciated. I don't want to lose any weight since I am already on the bony side minus my potbelly. Which I would also like to do away with. I can not do one single pushup. Only the girly kind.
And two hundred squats.
If you like the concepts on the DVD, stick with it. Assuming there are a limited number of routines, you may want to sit through and watch the whole thing without interacting. I tried a yoga DVD like this, and felt I was spending a lot of time awkwardly referencing the TV instead of holding a position.
If you can't make it through a full session on the DVD, get as far as you can and take a short break, and continue where you left off. If you can't continue, try again in a day or two and see if you can get farther.
Of course, if you don't like the DVD at all, scrap it and look elsewhere.
posted by filthy light thief at 4:39 PM on July 28, 2009
If you like the concepts on the DVD, stick with it. Assuming there are a limited number of routines, you may want to sit through and watch the whole thing without interacting. I tried a yoga DVD like this, and felt I was spending a lot of time awkwardly referencing the TV instead of holding a position.
If you can't make it through a full session on the DVD, get as far as you can and take a short break, and continue where you left off. If you can't continue, try again in a day or two and see if you can get farther.
Of course, if you don't like the DVD at all, scrap it and look elsewhere.
posted by filthy light thief at 4:39 PM on July 28, 2009
I feel like this same question has been asked a few times recently.
Decide what exactly you want to work on. It sounds like you would be best served by working on your strength, as the acquisition of strength will aid in the later acquisition of other aspects of fitness.
My goals are to be able to do push-ups, sit-ups, and take a few flight of stairs without getting winded.
It's good to have goals, and those are fine, but I suspect you would re-evaluate them once you began a strength program. Being able to do push-ups, sit-ups, and running up a flight of stairs is better than not being able to do them -- but those goals are going to be easily achieved and those skills won't take you very far.
If you want to get strong, you should read Starting Strength and do the beginner program. If you're working out at home, you'll need an olympic barbell, plates, a bench, and a power rack. I understand you can often find these things used for a good price -- I've never bought them, personally. If you don't want to buy those things, you'll have to join a gym.
Now, you could get stronger in other ways without leaving your house and without investing in as much equipment, and I'm sure other folks will suggest some. You can do some stuff with dumbbells or kettlebells or bodyweight. Doing 100 pushups, or 200 whatevers, is an impressive feat, but those things don't make you strong. To get strong you need to move heavy weights. If you're a beginner and you're not doing the basic barbell lifts taught in Starting Strength, your progress will be slower and will stop sooner. In my opinion, if you want to put the effort into this, it's best to do it right.
posted by ludwig_van at 4:52 PM on July 28, 2009
Decide what exactly you want to work on. It sounds like you would be best served by working on your strength, as the acquisition of strength will aid in the later acquisition of other aspects of fitness.
My goals are to be able to do push-ups, sit-ups, and take a few flight of stairs without getting winded.
It's good to have goals, and those are fine, but I suspect you would re-evaluate them once you began a strength program. Being able to do push-ups, sit-ups, and running up a flight of stairs is better than not being able to do them -- but those goals are going to be easily achieved and those skills won't take you very far.
If you want to get strong, you should read Starting Strength and do the beginner program. If you're working out at home, you'll need an olympic barbell, plates, a bench, and a power rack. I understand you can often find these things used for a good price -- I've never bought them, personally. If you don't want to buy those things, you'll have to join a gym.
Now, you could get stronger in other ways without leaving your house and without investing in as much equipment, and I'm sure other folks will suggest some. You can do some stuff with dumbbells or kettlebells or bodyweight. Doing 100 pushups, or 200 whatevers, is an impressive feat, but those things don't make you strong. To get strong you need to move heavy weights. If you're a beginner and you're not doing the basic barbell lifts taught in Starting Strength, your progress will be slower and will stop sooner. In my opinion, if you want to put the effort into this, it's best to do it right.
posted by ludwig_van at 4:52 PM on July 28, 2009
Tai-Bo is a workout plan which mimics kick boxing in some ways. It certainly won't teach you how to kick box, but it will help you to build the muscles which you use while kick boxing.
posted by markblasco at 4:53 PM on July 28, 2009
posted by markblasco at 4:53 PM on July 28, 2009
I have used public TV's "Body Electric" program for 15 years. It's a half-hour workout that includes warm up, a workout with light weights and cool down/stretch. It's easy to do at home. My physique is a lot different now than when I started, more toned and defined, and I'm stronger.
I taped the shows, so except for a set of 3, 5 and 8 # weights, and a set of leg weights, it's free. If its on PBS in your area, you could tape it, or the website offers many videos.
The workout includes push-ups and other pectoral exercises (you might start with something for the pectorals other than pushups if you can't do any at all), stomach crunches and obliques exercises, and exercises for triceps, biceps, deltoids, back (upper and lower), quads, calves, hamstrings, and gluteals. She draws from yoga and pilates traditions, though it's not a yoga or pilates workout.
Building muscle probably won't cause you to lose weight -- it can speed up your metabolism a bit but to balance that, muscle weighs more non-muscle.
posted by mmw at 4:53 PM on July 28, 2009
I taped the shows, so except for a set of 3, 5 and 8 # weights, and a set of leg weights, it's free. If its on PBS in your area, you could tape it, or the website offers many videos.
The workout includes push-ups and other pectoral exercises (you might start with something for the pectorals other than pushups if you can't do any at all), stomach crunches and obliques exercises, and exercises for triceps, biceps, deltoids, back (upper and lower), quads, calves, hamstrings, and gluteals. She draws from yoga and pilates traditions, though it's not a yoga or pilates workout.
Building muscle probably won't cause you to lose weight -- it can speed up your metabolism a bit but to balance that, muscle weighs more non-muscle.
posted by mmw at 4:53 PM on July 28, 2009
Also I just read that 200 squats site and I'd recommend avoiding it, as it is full of nonsense and foolishness.
posted by ludwig_van at 4:57 PM on July 28, 2009
posted by ludwig_van at 4:57 PM on July 28, 2009
I am guessing you'd benefit more than anything else from strength training.
First, Stumptuous is a great website for beginners looking to get stronger and more fit, especially women. It's worth looking through the whole website, and there is a section geared specifically towards exercising gymless.
FitDeck is a good, basic workout tool that will give you both some conditioning and muscular strength. It's gimmicky, but can be effective if you follow it and add in some assisted pull-ups (body rows, negatives, jumping pull-ups, etc).
Ross Enaimait has a great bodyweight exercise book called "Never Gymless" as well. You can find it on his website.
Personally, I would stay away from the "Hundred X"-type programs as they are NOT comprehensive workout programs, and are more about boasting that you can do a lot of this or that type of exercise than they are building effective lifelong fitness. They're also a recipe for tendinitis.
posted by Anonymous at 5:06 PM on July 28, 2009
First, Stumptuous is a great website for beginners looking to get stronger and more fit, especially women. It's worth looking through the whole website, and there is a section geared specifically towards exercising gymless.
FitDeck is a good, basic workout tool that will give you both some conditioning and muscular strength. It's gimmicky, but can be effective if you follow it and add in some assisted pull-ups (body rows, negatives, jumping pull-ups, etc).
Ross Enaimait has a great bodyweight exercise book called "Never Gymless" as well. You can find it on his website.
Personally, I would stay away from the "Hundred X"-type programs as they are NOT comprehensive workout programs, and are more about boasting that you can do a lot of this or that type of exercise than they are building effective lifelong fitness. They're also a recipe for tendinitis.
posted by Anonymous at 5:06 PM on July 28, 2009
Oh, and there's nothing wrong with being able to do only "girly" pushups. They'll build your pecs, too.
posted by mmw at 5:07 PM on July 28, 2009
posted by mmw at 5:07 PM on July 28, 2009
Try yoga! Great for strength. Great. I suggest Power Yoga by Bryan Kest. You'll be doing push-ups like a pro in no time.
I thought of myself as pretty strong before I started, and it totally surprised me; changed my body inside and out.
posted by bobbyno at 5:07 PM on July 28, 2009
I thought of myself as pretty strong before I started, and it totally surprised me; changed my body inside and out.
posted by bobbyno at 5:07 PM on July 28, 2009
My goals are to be able to do push-ups, sit-ups, and take a few flight of stairs without getting winded
Call me crazy, but why not do pushups, situps, and run the stairs? All three are good solid exercises. You don't need a program, or a plan. You just need to get off your butt and do it.
posted by chrisamiller at 5:24 PM on July 28, 2009
Call me crazy, but why not do pushups, situps, and run the stairs? All three are good solid exercises. You don't need a program, or a plan. You just need to get off your butt and do it.
posted by chrisamiller at 5:24 PM on July 28, 2009
ludwig_van: If you're going to call something nonsense and foolishness, it'd be nice to say why.
posted by that girl at 5:28 PM on July 28, 2009
posted by that girl at 5:28 PM on July 28, 2009
if you are in NYC (i think you might be since you used a NYSC day pass), New York City Parks and Rec has some good facilities and it's SUPER cheap to join -- $30ish for 6 months or $75 for a year. if there is a rec center near you, it might cheaper/easier than buying your own weights. plus they have some good classes too.
posted by nanhey at 5:28 PM on July 28, 2009
posted by nanhey at 5:28 PM on July 28, 2009
If you're going to call something nonsense and foolishness, it'd be nice to say why.
Sigh. It's a very silly program. It won't make anyone strong past a very limited point, and a program of incredibly high-rep unweighted squats does not have "potential for bigger and faster muscle growth than many other exercises" as the site claims. Its description of squat form is terrible. It's tells you to squat "to a position where your thighs are almost parallel to the floor" and "to avoid undue stress on the knee joint, do not allow your buttocks to drop lower than your knees as you lower your body towards the ground."
It also has this gem:
"Important: Proper technique is critical, otherwise serious injuries or gradual injury over a period of time can occur. The back must maintain its natural curvature and not "round out" otherwise excess strain can be placed on the spine and cause serious injury."
Yes, God forbid anyone round their lumbar spine ever! It'd be hard to place excess strain on the spine when there's no weight on it.
Whoever wrote it doesn't know what they're talking about and/or is making a facile attempt to jump on the 100-whatevers internet workout trend.
posted by ludwig_van at 5:58 PM on July 28, 2009
Sigh. It's a very silly program. It won't make anyone strong past a very limited point, and a program of incredibly high-rep unweighted squats does not have "potential for bigger and faster muscle growth than many other exercises" as the site claims. Its description of squat form is terrible. It's tells you to squat "to a position where your thighs are almost parallel to the floor" and "to avoid undue stress on the knee joint, do not allow your buttocks to drop lower than your knees as you lower your body towards the ground."
It also has this gem:
"Important: Proper technique is critical, otherwise serious injuries or gradual injury over a period of time can occur. The back must maintain its natural curvature and not "round out" otherwise excess strain can be placed on the spine and cause serious injury."
Yes, God forbid anyone round their lumbar spine ever! It'd be hard to place excess strain on the spine when there's no weight on it.
Whoever wrote it doesn't know what they're talking about and/or is making a facile attempt to jump on the 100-whatevers internet workout trend.
posted by ludwig_van at 5:58 PM on July 28, 2009
Call me crazy, but why not do pushups, situps, and run the stairs? All three are good solid exercises. You don't need a program, or a plan. You just need to get off your butt and do it.
Telling a beginner to just "get off your butt" and start doing random reps of random exercises in some fantasy boot-camp exercise programme is a complete waste of time. Exhaustion, demoralisation and injury will follow. Structured, tapered exercise, with a clear payoff as in the hundred push up, sit up, and squat plans linked above, allows a beginner incapable of 3 reps in a row build their strength in a structured program through discipline and lets them marvel at their progress as they go. I've experience of all three, and contrary to ludwig_van's post, none of it is nonsense. Numerous testimonials across the internet - including on this site - will testify to that.
posted by fire&wings at 5:59 PM on July 28, 2009
Telling a beginner to just "get off your butt" and start doing random reps of random exercises in some fantasy boot-camp exercise programme is a complete waste of time. Exhaustion, demoralisation and injury will follow. Structured, tapered exercise, with a clear payoff as in the hundred push up, sit up, and squat plans linked above, allows a beginner incapable of 3 reps in a row build their strength in a structured program through discipline and lets them marvel at their progress as they go. I've experience of all three, and contrary to ludwig_van's post, none of it is nonsense. Numerous testimonials across the internet - including on this site - will testify to that.
posted by fire&wings at 5:59 PM on July 28, 2009
Lots of good ideas many/all will work if you keep at it. But the key is time and persistence. You don't want 2week strength, go slow, be careful but steady. One thing I did once was say each morning just two, and I could get myself to do just two pushups. Not long and the third just happened but I told myself 'just two'. Some days that's all I did but more often kept increasing. I personally don't see the point in 100 but you can get there. So do 1/2 each morning. Just that.
posted by sammyo at 6:08 PM on July 28, 2009
posted by sammyo at 6:08 PM on July 28, 2009
At the very simplest, to gain strength you just need 3 things:
1.) A strong enough trauma to the muscle tissue to break it down and force it to rebuild itself
2.) Enough nutrients available to enable said recovery and regrowth
3.) Time for the muscle to regrow stronger
It should be easy, but of course the presence of thousands of vastly differing trainers, books, diet plans, regimens and what have you show it's all in the execution.
I'd say the biggest thing for you to work on is #1. You need to work your muscles, hard. Working your muscles hard does not mean you need to bench press 250 pounds - you obviously can't do that. But it means you need to find the weight that YOU can barely but successfully do a few times, and do it until you fail. Then rest a minute and do it again. A mistake a lot of beginning athletes make, especially women (NOT -IST), is they don't lift hard enough. Be honest with yourself and don't lift more than you are able to, but at the same time don't cheat yourself and do an easier weight load. If that means doing a modified pushup, then do modified pushups, but make sure that truly is your current limit. This is the best reason for joining a gym, the weight sets available at a full gym allow you to very easily and accurately dial in exactly the weight you need to break down the muscle tissue. Bodyweight exercises are harder to get this right, and harder to incrementally increase over time.
A 'rep' (short for repetition) is one motion repeated, a 'set' is a group of repetitions done right after one another. Ideally you will find a weight for each exercise that you can do 5 reps of, but you fail out somewhere between 6 and 10 reps. If you are able to do 10 reps of an exercise and feel like you could do more at the end, you should increase the weight on it by a small increment. Aim to do at least 3 sets per exercise, consisting of at least 5 reps each set.
A standard workout for me is split into 3 days, each day roughly grouped into 3 general groups: Back, Chest, and Legs. The idea is to blast a muscle group hard one day, then let it recover for a full week.
posted by spatula at 6:15 PM on July 28, 2009
1.) A strong enough trauma to the muscle tissue to break it down and force it to rebuild itself
2.) Enough nutrients available to enable said recovery and regrowth
3.) Time for the muscle to regrow stronger
It should be easy, but of course the presence of thousands of vastly differing trainers, books, diet plans, regimens and what have you show it's all in the execution.
I'd say the biggest thing for you to work on is #1. You need to work your muscles, hard. Working your muscles hard does not mean you need to bench press 250 pounds - you obviously can't do that. But it means you need to find the weight that YOU can barely but successfully do a few times, and do it until you fail. Then rest a minute and do it again. A mistake a lot of beginning athletes make, especially women (NOT -IST), is they don't lift hard enough. Be honest with yourself and don't lift more than you are able to, but at the same time don't cheat yourself and do an easier weight load. If that means doing a modified pushup, then do modified pushups, but make sure that truly is your current limit. This is the best reason for joining a gym, the weight sets available at a full gym allow you to very easily and accurately dial in exactly the weight you need to break down the muscle tissue. Bodyweight exercises are harder to get this right, and harder to incrementally increase over time.
A 'rep' (short for repetition) is one motion repeated, a 'set' is a group of repetitions done right after one another. Ideally you will find a weight for each exercise that you can do 5 reps of, but you fail out somewhere between 6 and 10 reps. If you are able to do 10 reps of an exercise and feel like you could do more at the end, you should increase the weight on it by a small increment. Aim to do at least 3 sets per exercise, consisting of at least 5 reps each set.
A standard workout for me is split into 3 days, each day roughly grouped into 3 general groups: Back, Chest, and Legs. The idea is to blast a muscle group hard one day, then let it recover for a full week.
posted by spatula at 6:15 PM on July 28, 2009
Structured, tapered exercise, with a clear payoff as in the hundred push up, sit up, and squat plans linked above, allows a beginner incapable of 3 reps in a row build their strength in a structured program through discipline and lets them marvel at their progress as they go.
I'm glad you like those programs. There's nothing wrong with them. Not every program works for every individual, though. Some people need structured programs and goals, for others, all that bookkeeping and graphing just gets in the way, and causes them to lose focus on the real goal, which is actually doing the exercise.
If your explicit goal is to be able to do more situps, then doing a few situps every day will help. My point here is that exercise doesn't have to be fastidiously organized and scary. The beauty of exercises like situps is that you're quite unlikely to hurt yourself by doing them, and you can do them with no training or equipment. Just start doing a few every day, and you'll get stronger.
Exercise and good health really can be that simple.
posted by chrisamiller at 6:16 PM on July 28, 2009
I'm glad you like those programs. There's nothing wrong with them. Not every program works for every individual, though. Some people need structured programs and goals, for others, all that bookkeeping and graphing just gets in the way, and causes them to lose focus on the real goal, which is actually doing the exercise.
If your explicit goal is to be able to do more situps, then doing a few situps every day will help. My point here is that exercise doesn't have to be fastidiously organized and scary. The beauty of exercises like situps is that you're quite unlikely to hurt yourself by doing them, and you can do them with no training or equipment. Just start doing a few every day, and you'll get stronger.
Exercise and good health really can be that simple.
posted by chrisamiller at 6:16 PM on July 28, 2009
Stumptuous has already been linked, but I want to specifically recommend the Mistressing the Pushup article.
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:43 PM on July 28, 2009
posted by Metroid Baby at 6:43 PM on July 28, 2009
Maybe I am pointing the obvious, but if you have never exercised, there will be no work out you will excel at from the get go -- and that is OK. That is precisely what you are trying to address by exercising.
I know it can be frustrating to go to the kickboxing class and just flail about, but the way to get stamina and to get strength is to keep exercising. If you have not exercised ever, you will also find yoga difficult, because chances are you are inflexible. But again, if you keep at it, you will find that you get better and better, and that you enjoy it more and more.
You have problems getting winded? Go for a run once in a while. Run for a minute, walk for a minute, repeat for 20 minutes. Next week, run for two minutes, walk for one minute, and repeat for 20 minutes. Next thing you know you can run for 20 minutes straight.
Especially with respect to stamina, you will get better quickly.
The only way to get in better shape is to exercise frequently (at least 3 times a week, say), and to keep on doing it. Eat well. Think of these things are treats for yourself -- this is time you take to make yourself healthier.
Work hard! You will enjoy it soon enough!
posted by TheyCallItPeace at 7:05 PM on July 28, 2009
I know it can be frustrating to go to the kickboxing class and just flail about, but the way to get stamina and to get strength is to keep exercising. If you have not exercised ever, you will also find yoga difficult, because chances are you are inflexible. But again, if you keep at it, you will find that you get better and better, and that you enjoy it more and more.
You have problems getting winded? Go for a run once in a while. Run for a minute, walk for a minute, repeat for 20 minutes. Next week, run for two minutes, walk for one minute, and repeat for 20 minutes. Next thing you know you can run for 20 minutes straight.
Especially with respect to stamina, you will get better quickly.
The only way to get in better shape is to exercise frequently (at least 3 times a week, say), and to keep on doing it. Eat well. Think of these things are treats for yourself -- this is time you take to make yourself healthier.
Work hard! You will enjoy it soon enough!
posted by TheyCallItPeace at 7:05 PM on July 28, 2009
Speaking to the endurance side of things, I've been a pretty sedentary person most of my life, and I'm currently doing Couch to 5k. I'm currently on week 6, and I really like that you're working towards a very concrete goal, and that the program is very specific and structured. This helped me a lot, since as a non-athletic person, I didn't have a good sense of how hard I should be pushing myself.
posted by prex at 7:23 PM on July 28, 2009
posted by prex at 7:23 PM on July 28, 2009
My physical therapist who specialises in women's health highly recommended The Core Program by Peggy Brill. You can get it at the library if you just want to check out what it's about. I haven't tried it yet, just got it myself.
posted by Dragonness at 8:35 PM on July 28, 2009
posted by Dragonness at 8:35 PM on July 28, 2009
Mrs. Sleeping Bear lost ~55lbs using two programs: Turbo Kick (which is intimidating--I've tried it and it kicks my butt) and an online program called Fit Yummy Mummy, which is easy, simple, and is developed for non-workout-types who don't have a ton of time. This is my wife's very enthusiastic blog post describing it.
Full disclosure--if you buy it from the blog I think my wife gets some money, but the first link goes straight to the site.
posted by sleeping bear at 8:54 PM on July 28, 2009
Full disclosure--if you buy it from the blog I think my wife gets some money, but the first link goes straight to the site.
posted by sleeping bear at 8:54 PM on July 28, 2009
Cardio? Skipping.
Strength? ...yoga to start with.
Look at your body type and work with it. You sound a bit uncoordinated :) so don't pick activities where this will be a source of discouragement.
Make sure you are eating well! (If you loose 55 lbs you'll be dead.) Cardio - you'll need lots of good carbs to burn. Muscle - needs protein to build. (Whey powder is a good source plus it has lots of calcium. Yum yum.)
There are heaps of body building/health sites around the place just make sure the advice is specific to women. It's basically the same but if you follow the tweaks designed for women you'll get a better result. Obviously :)
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 11:03 PM on July 28, 2009
Strength? ...yoga to start with.
Look at your body type and work with it. You sound a bit uncoordinated :) so don't pick activities where this will be a source of discouragement.
Make sure you are eating well! (If you loose 55 lbs you'll be dead.) Cardio - you'll need lots of good carbs to burn. Muscle - needs protein to build. (Whey powder is a good source plus it has lots of calcium. Yum yum.)
There are heaps of body building/health sites around the place just make sure the advice is specific to women. It's basically the same but if you follow the tweaks designed for women you'll get a better result. Obviously :)
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 11:03 PM on July 28, 2009
All first days at a martial arts class are like this. It takes a long time to get really good, thats one of the best parts about learning a skill like that, is that one day you look at yourself and realize that you are actually improving. This can be a motivating factor that I find missing in normal weight training and and tread mill stuff.
As for the work out, making and keeping a routine is the most important part.
Also riding a bike for transportation really can't be under-estimated.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 11:34 PM on July 28, 2009
As for the work out, making and keeping a routine is the most important part.
Also riding a bike for transportation really can't be under-estimated.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 11:34 PM on July 28, 2009
I don't have a particular exercise regime to recommend, but wanted to point out that lifting lighter weights slowly can increase your strength as much as lifting heavier weights quickly. And lifting lighter weights is safer too. I've heard of people using soup cans or water bottles instead of dumbbells. On another note, no matter what you do, proper technique is really important. If you can't get "an expert" to show you the proper technique in person, at least have a friend watch the video with you and critique your form.
posted by oceano at 1:34 AM on July 29, 2009
posted by oceano at 1:34 AM on July 29, 2009
A couple of my equaintances have had amazing results with simplefit. it's one of those body weight exercise programs, but you can more than see how great their results have been.
posted by jedrek at 2:11 AM on July 29, 2009
posted by jedrek at 2:11 AM on July 29, 2009
I am skinnier, and presumably weaker, than you. And i'm a dude. So this advice doesn't come from me, but my giant incredible hulk of a friend: read Starting Strength. My friend can't shut up about it. It's a very regimented plan. And there is a DVD which tells you everything you need to do with resepect to exercises.
posted by chunking express at 7:41 AM on July 29, 2009
posted by chunking express at 7:41 AM on July 29, 2009
Its description of squat form is terrible. It's tells you to squat "to a position where your thighs are almost parallel to the floor" and "to avoid undue stress on the knee joint, do not allow your buttocks to drop lower than your knees as you lower your body towards the ground."
This is pretty standard, and good, advice for beginners. If you're only doing sets of 8 and you're experienced, sure, go as deep as you can. You'll get stronger through your entire range of motion. But if your muscles are still getting used to the movement and/or you're doing dozens of reps, you should absolutely follow this advice. Deep squats, especially done in quick succession, are a truly big stress on your knees ... a stress that is not necessary for beginner strength gains.
It also has this gem:
"Important: Proper technique is critical, otherwise serious injuries or gradual injury over a period of time can occur. The back must maintain its natural curvature and not "round out" otherwise excess strain can be placed on the spine and cause serious injury."
Yes, God forbid anyone round their lumbar spine ever! It'd be hard to place excess strain on the spine when there's no weight on it.
WTF? I really don't understand how you can quibble with this. It doesn't say "don't round your back ever". The context is squats and every good form squat that I know of is done with an open chest and straight spine, no matter the weight involved. Does Rippetoe really do squats with a curved back? I seriously doubt it, or he's evangelizing a surefire recipe for injury.
Bottom line, mokeydraws, is there's lots of good advice here, including checking out Starting Strength. But don't listen to anybody that says its the only way to get stronger. Find something that you enjoy that gets your heart rate up and something else you enjoy that works your muscles (especially your back and thighs) and do them. Consistently. Combine with enough plenty of good calories. You will get results. After you done these activities for a few months, you will need to change things up a bit. But I bet by then you can come back here and have a more specific question in mind.
Finally, I'd like to nth not getting discouraged by a certain amount of 'flailing about' doing certain kickboxing or step sequences. I've been exercising regularly for 3 years and developed pretty good strength, endurance and flexibility but am still as uncoordinated as ever. I still take classes that expose my two left occasionally, though. Keeps me humble and striving and stuff.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 8:34 AM on July 29, 2009
This is pretty standard, and good, advice for beginners. If you're only doing sets of 8 and you're experienced, sure, go as deep as you can. You'll get stronger through your entire range of motion. But if your muscles are still getting used to the movement and/or you're doing dozens of reps, you should absolutely follow this advice. Deep squats, especially done in quick succession, are a truly big stress on your knees ... a stress that is not necessary for beginner strength gains.
It also has this gem:
"Important: Proper technique is critical, otherwise serious injuries or gradual injury over a period of time can occur. The back must maintain its natural curvature and not "round out" otherwise excess strain can be placed on the spine and cause serious injury."
Yes, God forbid anyone round their lumbar spine ever! It'd be hard to place excess strain on the spine when there's no weight on it.
WTF? I really don't understand how you can quibble with this. It doesn't say "don't round your back ever". The context is squats and every good form squat that I know of is done with an open chest and straight spine, no matter the weight involved. Does Rippetoe really do squats with a curved back? I seriously doubt it, or he's evangelizing a surefire recipe for injury.
Bottom line, mokeydraws, is there's lots of good advice here, including checking out Starting Strength. But don't listen to anybody that says its the only way to get stronger. Find something that you enjoy that gets your heart rate up and something else you enjoy that works your muscles (especially your back and thighs) and do them. Consistently. Combine with enough plenty of good calories. You will get results. After you done these activities for a few months, you will need to change things up a bit. But I bet by then you can come back here and have a more specific question in mind.
Finally, I'd like to nth not getting discouraged by a certain amount of 'flailing about' doing certain kickboxing or step sequences. I've been exercising regularly for 3 years and developed pretty good strength, endurance and flexibility but am still as uncoordinated as ever. I still take classes that expose my two left occasionally, though. Keeps me humble and striving and stuff.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 8:34 AM on July 29, 2009
I don't have a particular exercise regime to recommend, but wanted to point out that lifting lighter weights slowly can increase your strength as much as lifting heavier weights quickly.
No it can't. It's not possible to get strong without lifting heavy weights. Heavy is relative to the individual, but strength training means heavy weights, and progressive overload, i.e. you have to keep increasing the weight to keep getting stronger. If you can do anywhere close to 100 reps the weight isn't heavy enough to make you strong. No one has ever gotten strong doing 200 squats or 100 pushups or anything like that.
This is pretty standard, and good, advice for beginners. If you're only doing sets of 8 and you're experienced, sure, go as deep as you can. You'll get stronger through your entire range of motion. But if your muscles are still getting used to the movement and/or you're doing dozens of reps, you should absolutely follow this advice. Deep squats, especially done in quick succession, are a truly big stress on your knees
You're right that this advice is unfortunately common, but it's wrong. Half-squats, like the site recommends, create an unbalanced force on the knee in which the quadriceps are under tension but the hamstrings are not. Doing lots of half-squats which do not involve the glutes or hamstrings will lead to a quad-dominant leg and increased risk of knee injury. Doing full squats, in which the knee moves below parallel with the hip and the hamstrings are fully stretched, will create a balanced force on the knee and a more stable joint. This is detailed in Starting Strength. Either way, if you're worried about stress on your joints, don't do 200 reps of something.
WTF? I really don't understand how you can quibble with this. It doesn't say "don't round your back ever". The context is squats and every good form squat that I know of is done with an open chest and straight spine, no matter the weight involved. Does Rippetoe really do squats with a curved back?
Of course he doesn't, because Rippetoe is describing heavy weighted squats. I'm not saying it's a bad idea to keep your lumbar spine extended -- lumbar extension is necessary for safety any time your spine is under a load. But this site is talking about unweighted squats, so while it's not a bad idea there is really no risk of spinal injury as the spine is not loaded, and for many people it's difficult to maintain a solid lumbar arch in a below-parallel squat when there isn't any load to brace against. The point is the site reads like the guy copied and pasted a description of squat form from wikipedia. He has no idea what he's talking about.
Bottom line, mokeydraws, is there's lots of good advice here
Maybe, but there's lots of bad advice out there too. Research carefully before you make any decisions.
posted by ludwig_van at 9:05 AM on July 29, 2009
No it can't. It's not possible to get strong without lifting heavy weights. Heavy is relative to the individual, but strength training means heavy weights, and progressive overload, i.e. you have to keep increasing the weight to keep getting stronger. If you can do anywhere close to 100 reps the weight isn't heavy enough to make you strong. No one has ever gotten strong doing 200 squats or 100 pushups or anything like that.
This is pretty standard, and good, advice for beginners. If you're only doing sets of 8 and you're experienced, sure, go as deep as you can. You'll get stronger through your entire range of motion. But if your muscles are still getting used to the movement and/or you're doing dozens of reps, you should absolutely follow this advice. Deep squats, especially done in quick succession, are a truly big stress on your knees
You're right that this advice is unfortunately common, but it's wrong. Half-squats, like the site recommends, create an unbalanced force on the knee in which the quadriceps are under tension but the hamstrings are not. Doing lots of half-squats which do not involve the glutes or hamstrings will lead to a quad-dominant leg and increased risk of knee injury. Doing full squats, in which the knee moves below parallel with the hip and the hamstrings are fully stretched, will create a balanced force on the knee and a more stable joint. This is detailed in Starting Strength. Either way, if you're worried about stress on your joints, don't do 200 reps of something.
WTF? I really don't understand how you can quibble with this. It doesn't say "don't round your back ever". The context is squats and every good form squat that I know of is done with an open chest and straight spine, no matter the weight involved. Does Rippetoe really do squats with a curved back?
Of course he doesn't, because Rippetoe is describing heavy weighted squats. I'm not saying it's a bad idea to keep your lumbar spine extended -- lumbar extension is necessary for safety any time your spine is under a load. But this site is talking about unweighted squats, so while it's not a bad idea there is really no risk of spinal injury as the spine is not loaded, and for many people it's difficult to maintain a solid lumbar arch in a below-parallel squat when there isn't any load to brace against. The point is the site reads like the guy copied and pasted a description of squat form from wikipedia. He has no idea what he's talking about.
Bottom line, mokeydraws, is there's lots of good advice here
Maybe, but there's lots of bad advice out there too. Research carefully before you make any decisions.
posted by ludwig_van at 9:05 AM on July 29, 2009
Half-squats, like the site recommends, create an unbalanced force on the knee in which the quadriceps are under tension but the hamstrings are not.
I'm not buying that the squat detailed on 200squats is a "half squat". The position pictured takes a buttload of glute strength. Reversing direction in that position actually requires a harder ass squeeze, in my experience, than reversing at a lower point. It does incorporate the hamstrings more to go lower, but they will be still be worked some and deadlifts are a better hamstring exercise. And I'd argue that quads are more important than hamstrings for functional strength for doing "normal" human activities, which does not include squatting twice your bodyweight IMO.
I am with you that doing 200 is more gimmicky than effective and that Rippetoe knows more of what he's talking about than Steve Speirs. But if 200squats is a program the OP would actually do and Starting Strength is not (because of barriers of cost or commitment or it's just not as fun), then it is a better answer for her situation. I don't think anybody would say 200squats is *all* she needs to do, but it could definitely help her reach goals. Any movement she does consistently (provided it doesn't cause injury, which I understand we disagree on...but we agree on the research bit) will help.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 9:46 AM on July 29, 2009
I'm not buying that the squat detailed on 200squats is a "half squat". The position pictured takes a buttload of glute strength. Reversing direction in that position actually requires a harder ass squeeze, in my experience, than reversing at a lower point. It does incorporate the hamstrings more to go lower, but they will be still be worked some and deadlifts are a better hamstring exercise. And I'd argue that quads are more important than hamstrings for functional strength for doing "normal" human activities, which does not include squatting twice your bodyweight IMO.
I am with you that doing 200 is more gimmicky than effective and that Rippetoe knows more of what he's talking about than Steve Speirs. But if 200squats is a program the OP would actually do and Starting Strength is not (because of barriers of cost or commitment or it's just not as fun), then it is a better answer for her situation. I don't think anybody would say 200squats is *all* she needs to do, but it could definitely help her reach goals. Any movement she does consistently (provided it doesn't cause injury, which I understand we disagree on...but we agree on the research bit) will help.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 9:46 AM on July 29, 2009
I'm not buying that the squat detailed on 200squats is a "half squat".
You're right, that picture is deeper than a half-squat. It looks like it's just about parallel, but it's a tiny picture and difficult to see. But the other image on the site is clearly an above-parallel squat, and the text tells you to lower until "thighs are almost parallel to the floor," and to "not allow your buttocks to drop lower than your knees." Exactly what those things mean is anyone's guess. The criteria for a full squat are clearly established in Starting Strength -- the acetabulum (hip joint) will be lower than the top of the patella (kneecap).
I'm not going to continue arguing about the benefits of the full squat or the role of the various muscles in the lift. If you want to disagree with Rippetoe, Kilgore, and all the folks at Crossfit, by all means squat above parallel.
But if 200squats is a program the OP would actually do and Starting Strength is not (because of barriers of cost or commitment or it's just not as fun), then it is a better answer for her situation.
Because training should always be fun, right? If the question was "What are some fun physical activities I can do?" I'm sure we could come up with a lot, like basketball, or ballroom dancing, or 200 squats. But it seems to me that the question is about how to get stronger.
I think these 100 whatever programs are popular because they're easy to do, they sound impressive, and they take advantage of the fact that the people they're directed to don't even know what their goals should be, let alone how to achieve them. I'm sure they will continue to be popular on the internet and profitable for their creator, just like any number of other marginally effective fitness products. Doing 200 squats will probably be good for conditioning. It might make you a little more flexible or a little stronger, if you are very inflexible and very weak to begin with. But it is not a strength program as the site misleadingly implies, and it doesn't provide a good description of form, anatomy, or lifting mechanics. As a person who didn't used to know better, it bugs me to see the same old untruths about strength training continue to get propagated.
In any case I think I've added all that I can to this discussion. Feel free to memail me about this if you'd like.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:40 AM on July 29, 2009
You're right, that picture is deeper than a half-squat. It looks like it's just about parallel, but it's a tiny picture and difficult to see. But the other image on the site is clearly an above-parallel squat, and the text tells you to lower until "thighs are almost parallel to the floor," and to "not allow your buttocks to drop lower than your knees." Exactly what those things mean is anyone's guess. The criteria for a full squat are clearly established in Starting Strength -- the acetabulum (hip joint) will be lower than the top of the patella (kneecap).
I'm not going to continue arguing about the benefits of the full squat or the role of the various muscles in the lift. If you want to disagree with Rippetoe, Kilgore, and all the folks at Crossfit, by all means squat above parallel.
But if 200squats is a program the OP would actually do and Starting Strength is not (because of barriers of cost or commitment or it's just not as fun), then it is a better answer for her situation.
Because training should always be fun, right? If the question was "What are some fun physical activities I can do?" I'm sure we could come up with a lot, like basketball, or ballroom dancing, or 200 squats. But it seems to me that the question is about how to get stronger.
I think these 100 whatever programs are popular because they're easy to do, they sound impressive, and they take advantage of the fact that the people they're directed to don't even know what their goals should be, let alone how to achieve them. I'm sure they will continue to be popular on the internet and profitable for their creator, just like any number of other marginally effective fitness products. Doing 200 squats will probably be good for conditioning. It might make you a little more flexible or a little stronger, if you are very inflexible and very weak to begin with. But it is not a strength program as the site misleadingly implies, and it doesn't provide a good description of form, anatomy, or lifting mechanics. As a person who didn't used to know better, it bugs me to see the same old untruths about strength training continue to get propagated.
In any case I think I've added all that I can to this discussion. Feel free to memail me about this if you'd like.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:40 AM on July 29, 2009
We all can go on about what we think are the best programs for you, but the best program is the one you stick with. Find something you like and do it.
posted by P.o.B. at 1:35 PM on July 29, 2009
posted by P.o.B. at 1:35 PM on July 29, 2009
3 years ago I was overweight and wanted to get back in shape. So I did 3 hours of walking every day up and down a hill. I also cut out sweets and colas.
In two months I dropped 30 pounds and got in the best shape I had ever been in and it was amazing.
I never once killed myself while walking but I never took it easy on my hill walks either.
I also NEVER took a day off even though people often suggest it.
But just walking up and down a hill and eating less and healthier made me transform in two short months.
posted by tarvuz at 2:44 AM on July 30, 2009
In two months I dropped 30 pounds and got in the best shape I had ever been in and it was amazing.
I never once killed myself while walking but I never took it easy on my hill walks either.
I also NEVER took a day off even though people often suggest it.
But just walking up and down a hill and eating less and healthier made me transform in two short months.
posted by tarvuz at 2:44 AM on July 30, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
Two Hundred Sit ups
posted by fire&wings at 4:22 PM on July 28, 2009