Poodle Attempts to Destroy Household Harmony! Barking and Peeing Popular Weapons!

July 23, 2009 4:52 PM

Help us de-neurose, de-jealous-ize my cranky canine please!

I have a 3.5 year old male (neutered) standard poodle (see the muppety cuteness here). I also have a boyfriend of a year and a half (whose cuteness I am not authorized to share). The Poodle, he does not like the Boyfriend. Not one little bit.

It all started on our fourth date. Poodle went directly from "hey, you're a fun and interesting new visitor" to "oh god bad man hate hate hate." Poodle has never been aggressive, but whenever Boyfriend arrives at house Poodle initiates the following sequence: 1) Bark wildly, 2) Run and hide, while continuing to bark wildly, 3) Quiet down, but continue hiding, 4) Maybe, just maybe, be in the same room, but spend all time staring warily at the bad, bad man.

Poodle is very territorial, but doesn't have problems with people in general (or anyone else at all, specifically). Since the arrival of Boyfriend in our lives 1.5 years ago, he's gotten to be wary of tall men, but chills out once he realizes that that tall man isn't Boyfriend. He is crated during the day, and loves his crate -- it's clear he considers that a safe space, which I think is good.

This has been going on, as I said, for a year and a half. Boyfriend spent 2 to 4 nights a week here. Last week, we commenced cohabitating (in my, and Poodle's, house). In the past 24 hours, Poodle has begun doing some submissive peeing when Boyfriend gets too close. Y'know, like when Boyfriend's got the leash in hand and is offering to take Poodle for a walk.

We're searching desperately for any suggestions on how to mitigate this situation. Things that we have tried thus far include:
1. Bribery! Dogs love snacks, right? Well... not this one. Poodle would rather forgo the tasty bit of steak than get within 4 feet of Boyfriend.
2. Boyfriend has taken over feeding duties for Poodle. Occasionally augmented with a delicious drizzling of bacon grease on the kibble. This has been the case for the last week or so. No lessening of the ohmygodbadman attitude.
3. Ignoring Poodle. Maybe if we don't reinforce the behavior it'll go away? Ummmmm... no.
4. What I like to call "Corporal Cuddling." Essentially, I'll grab Poodle for some cuddles, Boyfriend will also rub on him. Poodle will enjoy the attention, but run, run, run like the wind as soon as he can.
5. Playing! Hooray for a dog's favorite toys! Oh, wait, no. Poodle will not behave playfully when Boyfriend is around. No way. Altogether too risky for a Poodle, clearly.
6. Walks! What kind of dog can't be won over with a walk? Boyfriend has started taking Poodle on some walks that are just the two of them. Poodle chills out a bit for a while, but the next time Boyfriend arrives home it tends to be back to normal. So...no progress yet, but this is still in it's early stages.

I love this dog, who is really a fantastically fun, sweet (though still somewhat neurotic) dog when Boyfriend isn't around. Boyfriend is awesome, and willing to try all sorts of things, even though this dog (unlike all other dogs he's encountered) has a real problem with him.

So, does anyone have any ideas of training/tricks/mesmerism we could try with Poodle? Any reassuring stories to share with me? We are far, far, far from giving up, but I certainly don't want Poodle to be this stressed out the rest of his life.

I feel the need to note that Boyfriend is a great guy, and all answers of the "Your dog is trying to tell you something that you can't sense and animals are totally able to see our souls and so DTMFA" will be roundly mocked around this house. Thank you for all practical advice.

posted by amelioration to pets & animals (17 comments total)

You might try a modified form of bribery. Instead of getting your bf to give the dog treats, you can give the dog treats whenever your boyfriend walks into the room, comes home, and especially interacts with the dog in any way. Maybe even you give the dog treats while your boyfriend says the dogs name or coos to him.

But I would do those things while you wait for the animal behaviourist that you call to show up for your appointment. This is just the sort of problem they deal with.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:17 PM on July 23

First, but definitely foremost: Dogs don't feel jealousy. In fact, dogs REALLY hate it when you anthropomorphize their emotions.

No, seriously, something deeper is going on, and it's probably something ridiculously small.

But, um, *ducks* -- the one girl that MY dog barked at, despite the years of cohabitation and the awesomeness at the time of the girl and how much I was putting into making the relationship work and how much that girl was around animals and how much they all loved her, yeah, that was the one that in hindsight was a REALLY bad idea. You may commence mocking me.
posted by SpecialK at 5:17 PM on July 23

Is there any chance that Boyfriend is using a particular fabric softener, conditioner, aftershave, lotion, deodorant, hand sanitizer (etc.) with a fragrance that is not offensive to human noses but drives Poodle's heightened sense of smell crazy?
posted by Rhomboid at 5:17 PM on July 23

congratulations on one of the best written askme's in a long time!

that said.. I think that the dog is, as you suspected, jealous... I think you're on the right track with everything you've tried... stay the course....
posted by HuronBob at 5:42 PM on July 23

I'll take issue with the "dog's don't get jealous" idea.. My husky is with me pretty much 24/7, at home and at work... If I'm paying attention to someone, talking to someone...the dog will clearly tell me that she does not approve and will do a number of things to get my attention and draw me away... I sincerely believe that she is jealous... She does the same thing if a cat starts to pay attention to me...
posted by HuronBob at 5:46 PM on July 23

How do other dogs react around your boyfriend? Could it be a smell or something he eats that your dog doesn't like?
posted by wongcorgi at 5:49 PM on July 23

Thanks for all of the quick replies! I wish there were behaviorists where we live (and that, perhaps, I could afford one), but I'm afraid we're out of luck there.

Other dogs do just fine with my boyfriend, and tend to be extremely friendly and playful and loving with him. So we're definitely wondering about smells, but the dislike seems to be Poodle-specific, rather than dog-general.
posted by amelioration at 6:11 PM on July 23

I am no animal behaviorist, but it sounds to me (running, hiding, barking, wary staring, submissive peeing) like your Poodle is very insecure, and your boyfriend might have some aspect of his personality or behavior that scares/intimidates Poodle. I don't think this is jealousy necessarily.

I think this will be a long process. Start veeery slow - as in Boyfriend sitting on the floor, quiet, not staring or looking at the Poodle, holding a treat. Maybe even with the treat a few feet away on the floor. If Poodle won't get within 4 feet, start at 4 feet and over time, slowly move the treat closer.

The walks are also good too, keep that up. Poodle doesn't trust Boyfriend for some reason, and that trust needs to be established.

Good luck!
posted by misskaz at 6:33 PM on July 23 [2 favorites]

I'm not a behaviorist, but I do spend a lot of times with dogs.

Dogs pay very close attention to their pack structure, and what their relative position is within the pack. It is possible that Poodle felt that he was the alpha male to your alpha female, and the arrival of Boyfriend upset what he felt was a comfortable arrangement.

1) Bark wildly, 2) Run and hide, while continuing to bark wildly, 3) Quiet down, but continue hiding, 4) Maybe, just maybe, be in the same room, but spend all time staring warily at the bad, bad man.

This behavior reads like he is an insecure, lower-ranked dog trying to challenge the interloper. Barking and staring are commonly used by dogs to establish dominance.

But clearly, he's not a dominant dog, because he'd rather flee and hide, or pee on the floor, than to physically challenge Boyfriend. It sounds as if he's feeling rather unsure about where he stands with you, and Boyfriend, his pack.

misskaz's advice to start veeery slow is excellent. That is just how we were taught to interact with shy dogs at the animal shelter.

I would advise that you work on establishing your pack structure with Poodle. If Poodle likes his crate, use that as a training tool. The crate is not punishment; it is Poodle's safe place. Can Poodle be in the crate when Boyfriend comes home? Do not encourage or acknowledge any excitement or anxiety demonstrated by Poodle when Boyfriend appears. Ignore Poodle when Boyfriend comes home. Any barking or staring should be deterred with a sharp "No!" Continue having Boyfriend feed Poodle, preferably when Poodle is in the crate. Continue to have Boyfriend walk Poodle. Walking is a great way to establish the pack structure.

Forcing Poodle to come into unwanted contact with Boyfriend (ie. Corporeal Cuddling) is not advisable. Poodle is already anxious and insecure. Forcing him to endure physical contact is like asking him to start biting you out of fear.

Continue with what you're doing, but recognize that it won't happen overnight. It takes time, and consistency. Good luck!
posted by Seppaku at 7:11 PM on July 23 [1 favorite]

misskaz has the right idea. Boyfriend needs to ignore Poodle for now, and occasionally toss treats without even looking at the dog. Boyfriend needs to become a nonentity which is nonthreatening before he can become a friend. He needs to not look at the dog, not talk to the dog, not pat the dog, not walk the dog, just ignore the dog, ESPECIALLY when the dog finally approaches him (getting all "YAY GOOD DOG" when that happens is likely to set you way back). It is likely that your well-intentioned efforts are actually making the dog feel more pressured and anxious, not less. Books like "Scaredy Dog" and "The Cautious Canine" may help, but I really think you need to make BF being around less stressful simply by having BF ignore the dog for a while. I agree that walks are a good idea, but you should walk the dog, and BF should go along. You are definitely trying to do the right things, and I admire your efforts so far. Poodles tend to be very people-oriented and sensitive, and it could easily be the case that your efforts are actually increasing your dog's stress levels instead of decreasing them, take the pressure off the whole situation by relaxing a bit.

As to the "jealousy" issue, the main problem most knowledgeable animal people have with using that term is that it carries a lot of baggage about things like morality and motivation which has nothing useful to contribute to animal behaviour. It's not that animals don't feel something akin to what we call "jealousy", it's that calling it that is not useful, and can be actively harmful in terms of successfully understanding and modifying behaviour.
posted by biscotti at 7:11 PM on July 23 [2 favorites]

I think you should alternate between having the boyfriend ignore poodle - and that means no looking at poodle - and a few times a day having the poodle do something for the boyfriend.

Can you poodle go to a place or sit and stay or do something for the treat or spoken reward so you can establish that boyfriend is someone he can trust. If there is something he can ask in a wide open space where poodle doesn't feel closed in, that would be best.

This may take quite some time, and once poodle starts acting like he might be able to what scary hate hate bad man asks, do not push. Just do two or three things a day. If he won't do the thing, just let it go and wait until another time in the day and then then try again. Nothing builds trust like being fair and having clear rules.

Also, walks with you and boyfriend. Not with just the boyfriend. Your poodle is probably doing okay with the boyfriend on those just the two of them walks because of an any port in a storm attitude.

If it's at all possible, the three of you should go to a class. It can be tremendously helpful to have a distinterested third party see the dynamics between you and the dog, boyfriend and dog, and you and boyfriend.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 7:50 PM on July 23 [1 favorite]

I just placed a foster dog with parents who - while really good-hearted and well-meaning - did exactly this kind of thing. Trying EVERYTHING to get the dog to bond to them. Once I suggested they essentially back off and do nothing for weeks (yes, weeks) - to try and "entice" the dog to like them, the dog responded well in just a few days. Obviously their scenario was different - someone had to feed and walk the dog, there wasn't a prior territory, etc.

In your case, I would suggest that your boyfriend do as biscotti says -- ignore the dog entirely, don't react either way when the dog comes near, and certainly stop forcing interactions of any kind. Once in a while your boyfriend can drop delicious (and NOT just kibble or regular treats) treats near him without looking at the dog (eye-contact is sometimes 'aggressive' to some dogs). He can go on walks with you and the dog, and if you regularly go to a dog park, he can come with you (it's a good place to practice, even in off hours with no other dogs present - the dog can come and go to you, and the boyfriend is there, but not "controlling" the dog). I bet you'd see an improvement sooner rather than later, even if they're not BFF.

Keep up the good work and good spirits. It's really important to try and maintain a bit of a sense of humour about this, otherwise the stress rises, and attachment to "solving" this problem rises, creating more stress, etc. It's a bad cycle that does nothing to help the problem. Good luck!
posted by barnone at 12:48 AM on July 24

Plenty of good advice above; I just want to second the suggestion that it's a good idea for the three of you to go for a walk together rather than just the dog and the boyfriend. My feeling is that dogs kind of define their pack as "the group of people/dogs that I walk with"; plus if you're walking the dog and the boyfriend is there (but not actually holding the lead) then your poodle can spend time with him without having to directly deal with the fact that he's there, if that makes sense. Kind of like when introducing two dogs for the first time - if you do it on a walk, then they have something to do rather than just being confronted with the other dog and having to deal with it.
posted by primer_dimer at 2:42 AM on July 24

All good suggestions above. I'd add that time alone will probably help some of this - Poodle will probably eventually relax a bit around Boyfriend. And if behavior like submissive peeing continues or gets worse, talk to a veterinarian about trying a course of anti-anxiety medication, like Clomicalm. In addition to making you unhappy, Poodle is probably rather unhappy with the current situation, so helping him relax in any way possible would be good all around.
posted by walla at 7:36 AM on July 24

I want to thank all of you for your thoughtful replies. We've been thinking about your suggestions, and I really expect this to be incredibly helpful.

Yesterday, while I was writing the question in fact, Boyfriend took Poodle for a walk/jog. When they got back, Poodle was remarkably more relaxed, and was even willing to play a bit. That worked, I believe, because it was primarily me tossing the ball for Poodle and occasionally including Boyfriend in the circle. That, along with your suggestions, leads me to think that the walks are going to be a great tool -- sometimes all three of us, sometimes probably just Boyfriend and Poodle.

Another tip I'm going to integrate is always having Poodle in his crate when Boyfriend gets home. We did that today, and ignored the barking, and it seems like it tapered off much faster than usual. Boyfriend is also going to basically ignore Poodle except for feeding him (in the crate), and we'll try the casual dropping of treats as well.

And finally, since the 'corporal cuddling' sounds like it worried a few of you, I will say that this is something I tried very, very irregularly -- and won't again. If there is to be Poodley affection, it will be instigated by Poodle himself from now on.

Again, thank you all.
posted by amelioration at 3:02 PM on July 24

It might be helpful to think about it this way: even though your boyfriend has been in poodle's life for 1.5 years, it's probably been an irregular, unpredictable, yet incredibly intrusive schedule (at least from the dog's point of view).

Poodle: Will he be here tonight? I DON'T KNOW.

Poodle: Well, here he is again. Ugh. Will he still be here tomorrow morning? I DON'T KNOW!

Poodle: Thank Dog he didn't come around today. But will he be here tomorrow? I DON'T KNOW!

For some dogs, obviously, it wouldn't be a big deal, but perhaps your dog really, really hates any upsetting of the regular schedule even more than most dogs (and most dogs do seem to prefer reliable routines)... in which case he's become accustomed to viewing your boyfriend's visits as unfortunate deviations from the desirable norm. Once your boyfriend's presence in the house becomes "the norm" to him, he can begin to settle down and, most likely (since boyfriend seems like a fantastic guy), establish a warm relationship.

In which case it's mostly just a waiting game - but, of course, one best played by not exhibiting a great deal of erratic behavior (again, from the dog's point of view). Establish your initial level of routine regarding boyfriend behavior re: walking and feeding (and treats), and make it regular, No surprises! And then just keep on keeping on, and wait for poodle to initiate greater contact/interaction/intimacy. And always be acting normal... this is normal, this is standard, this is our lives, everyday. Nothing out of the ordinary here.

We've had a lot of luck with treating anything that scares/upsets our dog as totally normal; we don't comfort her when she freaks out, or congratulate her when she doesn't... we just ignore the whole thing, basically, and forge on as if there was nothing wrong. She used to be terrified of garbage dumpsters, because when we would take a walk with her and drop off a bag into the dumpster, if it was empty, dropping the bag would make a crashing noise - and she really hates loud noises. So sometimes it would make a loud noise, and sometimes not. And sometimes we had something to drop into the dumpster, but sometimes not. But because sometimes it made a loud noise, she would always cringe and lay down on the pavement whenever we approached a dumpster.

We ignored this, and just acted like everything was normal (which it was), and only today (after a little more than a year) we realized she is not doing this any more (well; she stopped dropping down some time ago, but today we noticed that she didn't cringe and shrink away). We're not even sure how long she's been "over" the dumpster fear. We had earlier and quicker successes with loud motorbikes while out walking, and passing buses (though buses still make her nervous). We also had another amazing victory over fear today, when she allowed us to give her a bath outside with the hose. She's been absolutely terrified of garden hoses (we believe because she was probably sprayed with a hose as punishment in the past), and became frantic and panic-stricken in reaction to anything to do with running water close to her, which made it quite an exercise in creativity to give her a bath. Anyway, I won't go into that saga, but... yay! This was a great milestone! But, tl;dr, our attitude has been mostly "this is normal; everything is normal; we're calm, and you should be, too."

Be prepared for an adjustment over the long term, if that's what it takes (but it might not ... you may find yourself pleasantly surprised after a little while) and please let us know how it goes, if you can. Also, would love to see the pic of muppety cuteness, but permissions seem to be set to "private"... Here's our muppety cuteness. :)
posted by taz at 8:30 AM on July 26

Again, thanks to everyone who contributed. Before I call this 'resolved,' I thought I'd let you all know that we've been doing more or less what I outlined in my response above. It's working... slowly. Poodle is still pretty dang suspicious, but it's definitely improving: he'll take treats now, he'll sit down close enough to Boyfriend to get leashed up for walks, etc. Very occasionally there's even some wagging of the nubbinish Poodley tail. I'm optimistic.
posted by amelioration at 5:40 PM on August 30