Maybe I should have bought a Dell....

July 22, 2009 10:27 AM

You guys helped me figure out what computer parts to buy. Now I've got the parts, tried putting it together, and it's been a disaster. Please help me figure this out...

Okay, so things were going smoothly in my build, until I had "an incident", that was mainly the result of me being dumb. This is what happened:

I was connecting the power button switch to the jumpers on the motherboard. Little did I know, I had connected them incorrectly (ugh). When I went to power up, this wire started smoking. When I saw my computer in literal flames, i turned everything off. Sadly, it was too late- the power button has completely melted, so it's always "stuck"

That annoyance aside, I decided to go ahead and wire the reset switch to the motherboard in the power slot (correctly this time). Yes, this means that hitting reset would control the power, but I rationalized it and thought it'd give my computer a little more "character."

So, I finished off the build and powered up, and...nothing. The motherboard powers up, the cpu fans turn on, the lights on the motherboard flash, but nothing on the screen.

Weird Thing that it does: ("the weird thing") When I power it up, it tries to turn on comes on for 3 seconds, then shuts off, then comes on again normally. As I can't see anything on the screen, I don't know if this means anything.

I went into error debugging mode. I disconnected everything except the RAM, processor, and Graphics Card (my mobo doesn't have onboard graphics). Turned it on. Still nothing on the screen.

I disconnected the Graphics card and the RAM, thinking I would get some beep codes, but nothing beeps. I then disconnected the processor, and left the motherboard basically bare, and even then nothing still beeps-but it doesn't do "the weird thing", and it just starts up normally.

I replaced the memory that we had lying around the office. Still nothing. That leaves me with the motherboard, power supply, and processor.

The power supply looks fine on all accounts -it's a beefy 750 watts, and everything is turning on, lights are whizzing, etc.

So that leaves me with the Motherboard or Processor.

Why it could be the motherboard: I mean, nothing is appearing on the screen. Also, I had that "incident". Also, nothing beeps! I should have some beep codes, right?

Why it might not be the motherboard: The lights are coming on. It seems to be functional by all accounts.

Why it could be the processor: Why did it stop doing "the weird thing" once I took the processor out.
Why it might not be the processor: I mean this processor was really easy to put in (Socket 775 Core 2 quad core). Processors generally have a really tiny failure rate.

So what now? I don't have a spare motherboard or processor to test it on. Any ideas? Is it something totally different?

For reference, my board is an Asus PQ5-E. my chip is an Intel Core2Quad 2.4 Ghz. My Graphics card is an Nvidea 9800 GTX+

posted by unexpected to computers & internet (22 comments total)

nothing appears on screen? Any proof your graphics card isn't a dud?

Why do you assume it's the motherboard or processor over the graphics card?
posted by royalsong at 10:40 AM on July 22

If you're still using the fried power switch, it's possible that it is contributing to this problem. I would try getting a replacement switch at the local electronics store and see if it makes a difference. If that doesn't work, I would look for signs of a blown chip or capacitor or fuse on the motherboard, and would probably consider a motherboard swap.
posted by zippy at 10:44 AM on July 22

I assume it's the motherboard or processor mainly b/c the motherboard isn't beeping. The lack of beep codes is a huge trouble spot for me- there are always supposed to be beep codes!

Also, the fact that when everything is put in normally (processor, mobo, ram), when it starts up, then turns off again, then starts back up, that's a huge red flag to me too- computers aren't normally supposed to do that.

It could be the power supply, but it's a sturdy Corsair, and there was nothing directly plugged into it during my "incident". The cable was plugged directly into the motherboard- and power is going to the graphics card fan, the CPU, and the motherboard, as well.
posted by unexpected at 10:47 AM on July 22

No beeps + no boot = dead cpu for me a couple years ago, but then it didn't reboot half way through loading either, so probably not the case here.

Check that power switch, I've heard of them causing rebooting issues before and I must say I've never seen a computer light on fire before, I bet that was awesome in a horrifying way.
posted by Submiqent at 10:52 AM on July 22

Id there a video card on the motherboard , sometimes the pc will not correctly switch to the addin card. if there is a vga port on the motherboard itself try connecting your monitor to that.
posted by majortom1981 at 10:53 AM on July 22

I was connecting the power button switch to the jumpers on the motherboard. Little did I know, I had connected them incorrectly (ugh). When I went to power up, this wire started smoking. When I saw my computer in literal flames, i turned everything off. Sadly, it was too late- the power button has completely melted, so it's always "stuck"

New mainboard at the very least, and possibly any components attached to the mainboard at the time. Smoking wires and flaming mainboard is bad.

You need to ask yourself what the cost is of downtime or catastrophic data loss, because you're at risk to both by trying to use what is now a junk mainboard.
posted by iamabot at 10:53 AM on July 22

You say when you took the CPU out it 'starts up normally,' but you don't have any video out. So you just mean that it doesn't restart itself? The fans spin up and it sits there? That sounds normal for a no-CPU machine, it's not even getting far enough to reboot.

In order to get beep codes, the case speaker needs to be wired up correctly. Is it? Was it damaged in the fire?

At this point you need to suspect everything in there of being faulty from fire damage. You need a test machine to try components in one at a time. The graphics card is certainly a candidate, can you at least try a different card in your current machine?
posted by Who_Am_I at 10:58 AM on July 22

I assume it's the motherboard or processor mainly b/c the motherboard isn't beeping. The lack of beep codes is a huge trouble spot for me- there are always supposed to be beep codes!

Has it ever beeped? Are you sure it is capable of beeping in its current configuration?

Sadly, it was too late- the power button has completely melted, so it's always "stuck"

Doesn't look like anyone has pointed this out yet, but I THINK recent mobo's (e.g. built in the last fifteen years) power switches go through some intelligent power mgmt circuitry, and they are momentary-contact switches, not regular "stay on till i turn you off switches". Like, go up to another computer, and hold the power button on while it boots. It may trigger some hard reset not unlike what you are seeing here. That is to say, if your power switch is truly stuck 'on', the behavior you are seeing may be totally correct.

First things first, since the power switch is trashed anyway, cut it off the pair of wires its hanging from, leave the jumpered part connected to the mobo, strip a bit of wire off the ends of the power switch, and touch these together momentarily to start the boot process, then keep them isolated (from each other and gnd). See what that does.

On ATX and later hardware (I think), a "stuck" power switch does not equal "character" it equals "this will not work at all, you are triggering a lukewarm reboot of the computer constantly."
posted by jeb at 11:05 AM on July 22

To attempt to clarify my above point:

Also, the fact that when everything is put in normally (processor, mobo, ram), when it starts up, then turns off again, then starts back up, that's a huge red flag to me too- computers aren't normally supposed to do that.

Yes they are, when you hold the power button down, which is what your melted power button sounds like its doing.
posted by jeb at 11:06 AM on July 22 [1 favorite]

Sounds like you fried the mortherboard.

That annoyance aside, I decided to go ahead and wire the reset switch to the motherboard in the power slot (correctly this time). Yes, this means that hitting reset would control the power, but I rationalized it and thought it'd give my computer a little more "character."

Don't take this as a flame, but do not do this. You are taking another shortcut to fix the one you already made. Fix the power switch and correctly attach it to the jumper.
posted by Big_B at 11:07 AM on July 22

jeb,

the power button isn't being held down. I've disconnected the wire completely. It's wired through the power reset button now. I've also tried turning on the motherboard manually (it has a manual power button) and the same behavior occurs.

Who_am_i, this is good to know! The case speaker is not wired up. I'm not sure it's capable of beeping, I've just assumed it's always beeped. Also, when I say that it starts up normally, I mean that the motherboard powers on, and sits there. It doesn't auto-shutoff after 3 seconds, then restart itself.

majortom, no onboard video. sorry :(

iambot, wires were smoking, there was no fire on the motherboard. I'm definitely considering buying a new motherboard and case, but it would SUCK to buy every piece of equipment again....
posted by unexpected at 11:13 AM on July 22

Big_B, yea, i know, I'm going to buy a new case. I just did this to get up and going. I also wanted to "assess the damage" from the smokey wires. My original intention was to get the computer working, then move it to a new case- no sense screwing up another case.
posted by unexpected at 11:15 AM on July 22

I went through the question and didn't see this answered, but sorry if I missed it: what did you connect the power switch to originally that actually ran enough current through the wire to cause it to smoke?
posted by wsp at 11:22 AM on July 22

wsp, I will tell you, but do not laugh at me! I know I'm a huge idiot. The place where it connects to is basically a set of pins:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
a . . . . . . . .

b . . . . . . . .

because my drawing doesn't come out that well, 3b, and 6b are empty. A normal, non-idiot, would realize that the jumpers just like across 1b, 2b for the rest, 4b 5b for the power, and 7b 8b for the hard drive light.

Me, on the otherhand, decided to plug in 6a, 6b. This caused the smoke. Stupid diagrams.
posted by unexpected at 11:28 AM on July 22

No beeps + no boot = dead cpu for me a couple years ago

Why not rebuild in a new case, which would eliminate the power switch as a cause of failure, and really, what are the chances of you making the exact same mistake twice? I've had plenty of "learning experiences" with miswiring, but never one that actually immediately damaged the mother board. Given the fact that you miswired to begin with, I think it's more likely that you simply have something wrong. In those situations, I typically read the documentation and go component by component. Replacing the mother board would be the last option I would consider, after all others have failed.
posted by mrmojoflying at 11:31 AM on July 22

This is something out of left field, but when I first built a computer (about five years ago), I had a similar problem. I had not set up the heatsink properly (it was unclipped), so the processor was likely overheating quickly, causing the system to quickly shut down thanks to the mobo's safety features. You didn't mention the heatsink, and they're much easier to install these days (I had to pry it on with a flathead screwdriver, and now they've got nice little levers), but I figured it was worth mentioning.

If you didn't plug in the case speaker, and the mobo has no speaker of its own (most don't), you should seriously plug it in if you want to diagnose the problem with this board. Also, did your motherboard come with a slot cover that has LEDs on it? That's likely for diagnosis of problems and will be in the manual. You just plug it in and look for the problem that matches the pattern.

Some motherboards also come with "dual-bios," meaning your motherboard comes with two copies of its firmware in case one gets fried. If it has it, flip the jumper that controls them so that you use the other one, in case this is that simple.

What pins were next to the power pins on the motherboard? Did you bridge a 5v rail meant for USB to a ground, perhaps? If that's the case, your board is likely fine, but if you bridged an electrified pin to one meant for data, you may have shorted something out.

Another suggestion: Since you melted one power button, and the reset switch is probably close, maybe you should disconnect the case buttons from the mobo completely and use the manual button you mentioned.

Grab bag of other things to check: Does your board have SLI? Do you need to change a jumper to disable SLI so you can use a single card? Could you put the video card in another PCI-E slot (SLI boards have two 16X slots, so you may have put it in the wrong one)?
posted by mccarty.tim at 11:35 AM on July 22

OK, so you only had one pin connected (6a) since there's no pin in 6b? Something would have had to complete the circuit for power to flow. So, assuming that something touched ground somewhere, 6a was live. What is 6a for? Is it USB? because that could be bad.
posted by wsp at 12:06 PM on July 22

wsp, I don't have the motherboard diagram in front of me (I'm at work), but 6a was a +5V rail related to power. The jumper connection for the USB switch and audio headphone jack were elsewhere on the board.
posted by unexpected at 12:08 PM on July 22

Have you made use of the brass stand offs that elevate and electrically isolate the motherboard from the motherboard tray? If you have the motherboard screwed directly to the motherboard tray within the case, you are causing a short that will prevent the motherboard from initializing. Hopefully, you have a PSU that is smart and detects shorts and prevents sending power to components that are shorting (this is why I live and die by Antec PSU's.... they rock.)
posted by PROD_TPSL at 1:27 PM on July 22

PROD_TPSL, yea, I'm using the brass stands. it is nicely elevated.
posted by unexpected at 2:26 PM on July 22

The case speaker is not wired up. I'm not sure it's capable of beeping, I've just assumed it's always beeped.

I'm not sure if I'm reading this right, but does your statement mean that the speaker on the case is not connected to the motherboard? Because if it's not connected, it will never beep -- the mobo (probably) doesn't have a speaker of its own.

In any case, if it really doesn't beep, my vote is for the motherboard being fried; perhaps other parts are toast too. Ask a friend to lend you some components (if he trusts you after your fire!) to swap through your computer. If combinations of someone else's known good processor, RAM, and video card don't do it, then your mobo is fried. I doubt the power supply is a goner, but you never know.
posted by Simon Barclay at 4:50 PM on July 22

Hey guys, just to give you an update.

I replaced the mobo, the graphics card, the RAM, and the case today, and....

it still doesn't work. The only thing left is the processor. Or the power supply. Ugh. Did not want to shell out for that. One cool thing though- the motherboard is not restarting as soon as it is started up- it starts normally, just nothing appearing on the screen.

Ordering new processor now...The silver lining is that I have enough good parts (I think) for another computer, and I always wanted a home server...
posted by unexpected at 9:30 PM on July 22