Some guy moving in Japan
July 17, 2009 1:41 PM   Subscribe

I have a working working holiday visa, ready to move in Japan in just a few months. I have no plans of where to stay or where to work whatsoever. Am I crazy?

Although it was only a humourous hobby at first, I've spent years casually learning Japanese. Since a while now, I wanted to try to live in Japan for a year.

I've always postponed the idea of moving over there. "Maybe next year," I kept telling myself. That's until I met someone special here who had to move back there and realising I just have a few years left before I go over the maximum age eligible for a working holiday visa.

I have friends in Japan. I can speak Japanese (somewhat). I miss the love of my life, deeply. It's been months since we've only been talking to each other online. I'm thinking this is my chance to know what it's like to live in Japan. I only went there once for a two-week trip and inexplicably fell in love with the country. I've been postponing this wish of experiencing Japan for years, but today I no longer have any excuses.

As the big move approaches, it's getting harder to accept everything I'll leave behind. Here, I have a nice circle of friends, a great place to stay in the middle of downtown, and on top of a great job, I've been offered a few great other positions already which I had to turn down. My professional reputation here is solid, or so I believe. I'm also well known in the local Japanese community. It took a few years to forge all this.

I'm excited, but nervous. Probably because I have no idea what to expect.

First, where will I live? During my trip, I went to Tokyo, Chiba, Hakone, Nara, Kyoto, Hiroshima, Miyajima, Osaka, Fukuoka, and Kumamoto. Each of those places had their own different qualities, good and bad sides. When someone asks which place I liked best, I can never give a straight answer.

Second, can I work? I'm not allowed to have work arrangements before I move there because of my visa, so I don't. I shun away from teaching jobs. English is my second language, although I've been speaking it since I was a child. I'm also not sure if I have enough patience to be a teacher. The last thing I want to do is to be stuck having to teach and give a poor, lasting impression of myself on a group of students. I'm an experienced Web developer here. Can't I do the same there?

I'm not certain why I come here to confirm if whether or not I lost my mind. Of course, my mileage will vary, and only I can make the decisions. Usually, I figure out everything on my own, but I'm a bit overwhelmed. I guess I'm looking for other people who went through the same thing to tell me a bit about their experience.

What do you think about all this? In advance, thanks for your comments!
posted by remi to Travel & Transportation around Japan (25 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
Though I haven't done this, WWOOF has programs in Japan.
posted by mdonley at 1:49 PM on July 17, 2009


ちょっとだめな決定だと思う。

Sorry, but I think that's a pretty crazy move. First off, if you just show up, you're on a tourist visa AFAIK, and I don't think you can start working just like that. Finding your own place is going to be relatively crappy; I've read stories of landlords withholding keys without huge fees, asking for months of rent beforehand, and so on.

A guy I graduated with went over there after getting a job with NOVA (the former eikaiwa). They took care of setting him up with an apartment and so on, I believe. He had to work pretty miserable hours for that job - actually, that's true for nearly all the eikaiwa - and he eventually got laid off once the company went under. Luckily he was able to scramble and find a job teaching English in the same city he was in.

Also I'm not sure how likely Japanese companies are going to be to take someone who can only "somewhat" speak Japanese. And you can't get a job translating, either - especially if you're not fluent.

So.. sorry to take the wind of your sails a little there. Just trying to be realistic.
posted by gchucky at 2:47 PM on July 17, 2009


/s/wind of/wind out of/
posted by gchucky at 2:47 PM on July 17, 2009


Yeah, honestly, it does sound a little crazy. You're leaving a stable life here because you love the country you visited on vacation and you have someone special there. I get that. But then you ask where you should live...wouldn't you want to live where that someone special is?

And you don't even have a job there yet...or a place to live. I can only imagine that the job market over there is as bad as here.

We all have the same dream when we go on vacation that we could live there and it would be wonderful the same way every day of the year. But then you realize there's a big difference between going to Disney World 1 time a year and living and working in Orlando.
posted by inturnaround at 3:03 PM on July 17, 2009


Am I crazy?

You might be, but in a good way, and just a little. I think that just from the fact you're bold enough to make this move and sane enough to think about it and ask for opinions, one can tell that you'll be fine.
posted by oxit at 3:04 PM on July 17, 2009


Am I crazy?

Depends on how much savings you have. If you've got enough money to live a year without a job, then maybe not.

If you're going to start starving if you don't find a job in a month, then you're out of your bloomin' mind.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 3:06 PM on July 17, 2009


The Japanese working holiday visa program has a whole official organization that helps place people with jobs, housing, and the like. They've got three offices - Tokyo, Osaka, and Fukuoka. Contact them now to see what a person with your skills might find yourself doing. Many, many multinational companies use English as the official language of intra-office communication, and some of them must be in Japan. What fields are you interested in working in aside from computers? What are your hobbies?

Did you check out the Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs website on this topic? There's really a lot to see there.

There's lots of reasons to do this, and lots of reasons not to. I say jump on it while you have the freedom to do so. If it's horrible, you're a plane ride from home, and depending on the terms of your visa, perhaps you can go back to Japan after a few weeks/months of recharging and start fresh.
posted by mdonley at 3:18 PM on July 17, 2009


I lived near Tokyo for a while, working for NOVA (which was not good but not too bad) and was lucky enough to get out before the company collapsed. I'm afraid that, without really good Japanese language skills, "teaching" "conversational English" will probably be your only option unless you can somehow use your connections in your local Japanese community to line something up. Back in 2004 it was pretty easy to find teaching work, but the Japanese economy has been hit hard lately and I'm not sure whether this is still true. There are lots of forums on the net for Westerners working or seeking work in Japan - I can't remember any addresses offhand but they're easy to find and they'll be good sources of information about things like what qualifications you'll need. Be warned though that expatriates can be a jaded and cynical bunch of people.

Having said all that, Japan is amazing and worth the effort. Years later I still have a sense of nostalgia for the place that I don't have for anywhere else I've been. Love to go back.

On accommodation: if you go somewhere where there are many other foreigners you should be able to find housing without large amounts of key money or advance rent, although it won't be great - there should be an English magazine or something which will have ads for this kind of thing. In Tokyo it was called Metropolis.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 3:31 PM on July 17, 2009


Working Holiday visa is good because you aren't just limited to English-related jobs that Specialist in Humanities (or whatever the eikaiwas fall under) visa holders can get.

The economy out in the sticks is AFAIK totally screwed so I'd focus on the major metro areas. I've been out of the country since 2000 but it's my general impression that while the youth demographic of Japan is shrinking dramatically, hte number of young adults in the big cities are constant since the big cities suck in a great number of newbies every year.

I shun away from teaching jobs. English is my second language, although I've been speaking it since I was a child. I'm also not sure if I have enough patience to be a teacher

In the big cities you might land a job teaching your peers in a business setting. BTDT, and it can be quite enjoyable & at any rate getting paid Y3000/hr to chat up/with coeds from Aoyama Gakuin etc. is a ~bit~ different from having to herd a classroom of snotty-nosed grade schoolers 30 hours a week.

I was in your shoes exactly 17 years ago now; finished school in June and kicked around July until heading off to Japan in August. No visa, no work, just $3000 in savings/credit but I had a friend there who got me in an "in" with the eikaiwa he was at and things turned out OK, as they tend to do.

So go out to where you have the strongest support, couch/tatami surf for a while if you can. Gaijin Houses are probably a good way to conserve the cash; my friend above burned through a big wad trying to stay in business hotels his first few weeks.

I had studied Japanese two years at school before heading out but my Japanese was crap. But after a few months there I had picked up a lot of what I was missing, language-wise. So the story there is GET A JOB first, then after your 1yr visa is running down you can look at converting it.

One thing that caught my eye recently was that rents in Kashiwa are rather dirt-cheap, yet Kashiwa isn't that far from Tokyo. When I was there I made the mistake of getting rather nice digs -- Shakujii, Kichijoji, Minami Azabu, but with iPods etc. today living further out and banking the difference is probably a better option.

頑張って~!
posted by @troy at 4:14 PM on July 17, 2009


I say go for it. Life's too short. You obviously have a real interest in Japan, and I think you'll regret it if you never do it. A year isn't that long; there will be friends and jobs here when (and if) you return.

HOWEVER, if you don't have the money to take the time you'll need to find work over there, then don't do it now. Save up your money and then go.
posted by cleverevans at 5:01 PM on July 17, 2009


Not crazy. I think you will regret it if you don't go. And more than that, going will make you a better person by forcing you to be adaptable, open-minded, engaged in your environment, and aware of what's truly important to you.

That said, you can make some practical preparations to make your move less risky. Surely you can narrow down your city by talking with your SO, and use the resources mentioned above to arrange a living situation. You could rent a room short-term, with the intention of it being only temporary, and then find something longer-term in person. Also, you will need to take critical stock of your current savings because you'll need to live off that when you first arrive. Think worst-case scenarios (what if you have trouble finding a job? What if your job doesn't pay enough to cover your bills?) If you can create a realistic plan to address those problems, then there is absolutely no reason not to do it.
posted by oceanmorning at 5:14 PM on July 17, 2009


Just to echo what others are saying, the economy is pretty bad right now in Japan, just as it is in the rest of the developed world. Expecting to come here and immediately find a job—even as a convenience store clerk or waiter—will be difficult, especially if your conversational Japanese isn't up to the task. English teaching is an option, but the bad economy combined with the NOVA collapse a year or so ago led to a surplus of teachers chasing fewer jobs, which made competition for them more intense. Plus, the jobs themselves are not much to speak of. The government-run JET program has good working conditions, but private schools worship the almighty dollar yen. At any rate, you say that English is your second language and you'd prefer not to teach, so I'll assume that isn't an option.

I'm also well known in the local Japanese community. It took a few years to forge all this.

If so, make this an asset -- talk to people, make contacts, and see if they can put you in touch with people in Japan who might be able to help. Japanese society prizes personal connections, and it makes things a WHOLE lot easier if you have someone already in Japan willing to help you look for a place to live or a job. Definitely do not ignore the connections you have built up over the years—use them.

You mention you have a girlfriend (friend?) living here; where in Japan is she? Could you stay with her for a period of time to settle in? "Gaijin houses" are an option, but whatever you can save on housing will help pay for food, a mobile phone, transport, etc. You will be surprised how fast you spend money, especially in Tokyo, until you get used to living here.

There are also a whole lot of other obstacles you need to understand prior to coming here. Even if you have experience as a web designer, you are in your mid-twenties. You will be competing against natives who speak fluent Japanese, may have just as much experience, and understand the dynamics peculiar to Japanese web design. Do you know how to make sites for imode or ezweb? Are you familiar with how Japanese use the Internet, and how that differs from North American and European usage? Do you know the industry lingo (専門用語)? You will probably start out making 200,000 yen per month, before taxes, regardless of your experience. Can you accept this? Your working holiday visa may prevent you from finding an apartment, obtaining a credit card, or even getting a job. Japan is not as transparent as Canada or the US, and you have less recourse if you are discriminated against due to your race or national origin.

I don't want to discourage you, but there are many people such as yourself who have a strong desire to come to Japan without being fully cognizant of the difficulties involved. I give you credit for not thinking that Japan is a land of ambrosia where you can escape your problems at home. However, be quite certain that you are not coming to Japan for love. If, for some reason, you break up after arriving, you will lose your only anchor and it may make things unbearable for you. Also, traveling or studying here is leagues away from actually trying to work here. It is stressful, it is confusing, it is challenging, but more than anything else, the day-to-day routine often differs little from elsewhere in the world. You may decide that that isn't what you want from Japan.

My advice to you, then, is to perhaps plan to spend a few weeks to a few months here, seeing if you can actually *live* here. If you can find a job, get a proper working visa, find a place to live, and get used to the rhythm of life here, then have the rest of your belongings shipped over. If not, you can return home knowing that you at least tried.
posted by armage at 5:37 PM on July 17, 2009


Also, if you want to make your living situation a bit more stable prior to coming, have a 4-year university degree, and can postpone your arrival by 8-12 months, I highly recommend visiting the Boston Career Forum in November. It's a job fair targeting exchange students from Japan, but many non-Japanese also attend. If you're willing to try doing something other than web design, you can interview with one of the dozens of companies that attend and try to get a job in the country. You have a few months to prepare, so you can start getting your resume and 履歴書 together and keep an eye on the list of participating companies to see where you want to apply.

Most of these companies, especially the bigger ones, will pay to move you to Japan, sponsor your visa, and give you a great deal of language and other training. If you're intent on living in Japan, this is the easiest and fastest route outside becoming a language teacher.
posted by armage at 5:44 PM on July 17, 2009


It's been said before by armage, but you're not crazy.

I first went to Japan on a working holiday in 1994 and did okay teaching English.

You may wish consider locating close to your girlfriend, as armage suggests. It will make things so much easier:

a) you won't waste money traveling to see her
b) you can probably crash with her parents for a month or so while you look for work
c) you will get acclimatized so much sooner

A few issues you may have to deal with this plan:

a) sending the wrong signals to your girlfriend and her family - they may think you want to marry her, and she may think so too.

Actually, that's the only issue. Living with multiple generations is pretty normal in Japan (I've lived with my wife and her parents a lot over the years. I really liked it, although my wife tended to get nagged about my shortcomings, such as not replenishing the beer fridge).

If you do decide to "homestay" with your girlfriend, you need to make sure she lives in one of the three large metropolitan centres in Japan: Kanto, Kansai, or Chukyo (Nagoya), because that's where you will find work.

As others have noted, there ain't much work in other parts of Japan.

Ideally, you'll decide to locate in Tokyo. You can find work as a web developer, and you don't need to have native Japanese skills.

One of the really interesting and magnificent things about the first weeks and months in Japan is something called "en", or "fate" or "coincidence." Things somehow work out in amazing ways.

I've often met people I know in some of the most out of the way places in Japan. Or I've had a problem that somehow gets fixed thanks to a chance encounter. It tends to wear off after a year or so.

If you pound the pavement, have a positive attitude, try hard, and network, things will work out, although there is more of a chance of this in Tokyo.

You can network with the American Chamber of Commerce in Japan - or you can cold call the country manager of a company listed on the website, seeing if they have a use for your services.

The caveat is that all of these foreign companies are based in Tokyo or perhaps Yokohama.

While the working holiday rules may seem to prohibit you from lining things up before you go, all that means is that a contract may not be signed before you reach Japan. However, you can do your research now, and even start cold calling companies now.

The first year or two may be hard (if you say to yourself that you'll just stay one year, well I said that and I stayed for 10), but you will succeed.

But you need to make sure you locate in a region with jobs (if you decide to do English teaching any of the big three metro regions will do, but be prepared to earn the equivalent of 18 dollars an hour) and make sure you have a support network (your girlfriend) or at least a plan and a budget to make it through for six months.

Good luck! I hope you decide to go!
posted by KokuRyu at 7:18 PM on July 17, 2009


Even if your girlfriend lives way out in the boonies, you should try to see if you could stay with her and her family for a couple of weeks when you arrive, just to get rid of the jetlag. It makes a big big big difference.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:21 PM on July 17, 2009


You're not crazy. Plenty of folks come over to Japan with less foresight than you've already shown!

As for accommodations, google "gaijin house" and the city you're interested in. Tokyo and Osaka have lots of gaijin houses. They're convenient. Furnished, with a shared kitchen and bathrooms. A fantastic way to get an instant circle of friends, some of which might be in the same boat as you. Cons are they are generally expensive, can be dirty and noisy (Friday and Sat. night parties were the norm at my gaijin house, and that sometimes bled into weekdays, too. Very much a college dorm atmosphere).

I'm confused--is the love of your life living in Japan now? If so, why not live wherever he/she is staying? That said, if you're free to live anywhere, know about Tokyo and Osaka (Yokohama, too, it's actually the 2nd largest city in Japan, but everyone kind of considers it a part of the greater Tokyo area). In these cities you'll find the majority of jobs and places to stay. Key word there is jobs. I'd guess that the vast majority of jobs for foreigners in Japan are in Tokyo, and Osaka an order of magnitude less. Smaller cities and towns have much, much fewer jobs.

What's your native language? Other languages aren't as popular, but there are opportunities to teach languages such as Korean, Chinese, French, German, Italian, etc. I had a friend from the U.S. who worked in IT, spoke passable Japanese but couldn't really read it, and he said he had a very hard time looking for IT work in Japan. Most jobs will require at least a fully conversational level, and likely a proficient reading/writing level as well.

With a working holiday visa I believe you can work, but only part time, 20 hours a week maximum. You can interview for a job and if a company likes you and wants to hire you, they will sponsor your visa, and at that point you can switch. I think. That's key and you should research that point first thing before coming over. Also, you'll want to bring some savings with you--expect to be living out of pocket for everything for two or three months. More, to be on the safe side.
posted by zardoz at 9:42 PM on July 17, 2009


Not crazy at all. I've done the working holiday thing in various countries (though not Japan). Hey, if you don't like it/can't find a job, you can always leave. It's not a huge big deal. It's meant to be fun, an adventure, a life experience. Go for it!
posted by different at 2:36 AM on July 18, 2009



I can't help with Japan specific questions and it doesn't seem I have to as others have done a good job upthread, but as a long term American ex-pat what you are feeling, this last minute reluctance, is precisely what I went through when I left the United States in 1997.

I was working for Deutsche Bank in New York and over time I gradually became involved in projects outside the United States.

A few business trips, initially to Frankfurt then London, showed me what life outside America could be like. I seriously like London the first time I visited, and a period of about two years and via rather manipulative internal politics managed to get precisely what I wanted - a full ex-pat package in London.

Well, even though I'd planned and schemed and colluded and politiked and worked damn hard for a couple of years to get what I wanted, as the date to leave New York - temporarily mind you approached, I became increasingly reluctant to go.

Lots of the same feelings you've expressed. How can one give up a full life to venture out into the unknown?

In the end it came down to the knowledge that everything I had in New York - that wide circle of friends, a wonderful flat on Houston Street with incredibly cheap rent, solid job and excellent career prospects on Wall Street - well, nobody gave that to me. I had created my life myself and I could do it again.

And in Europe I've done just that.

Don't be afraid to give it a try. Yes, some short term sadness when you emigrate is not unusual. In fact there will be emotional ups and downs, that is the common ex-pat experience.

But don't be surprised if you never want to leave Japan.
posted by Mutant at 3:34 AM on July 18, 2009 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Wow! Never expected to get this many comments! It's time I add a few more details, if those comments keep coming.

My first language is French. Canadian French, that is. I suppose if I accept to teach as a last resort, I could teach English, or French. But from what I understand, when the Japanese hear French, they think the only true French they should learn is the one from France. So, not only French teaching jobs are rare, but applying for them will be challenging, if I apply.

Officially, my Japanese is at JLPT level 3. I tried for 2, but failed. Can't wait for the JLPT to get revised next year and to have five levels instead of four. I can easily maintain a conversation with Japanese friends, but when it gets professional and no longer casual, that's when I start having problems.

I already met my girlfriend's parents. I was (the only one) nervous at first, but everything went fine. After sharing a few laughs, it went so well, my girlfriend told me she got the green light from her father to marry me. For a man usually not good with first impressions, I thought I did a fantastic job. Nonetheless, we both agreed to be patient. Our lives are turbulent still, and we want to wait until we settle before we start talking about marriage.

She's living with her parents in the prefecture of Aichi. She said I could go there to crash for a week or two, but she thinks her place is too small. She wants to move out and live with me somewhere else. (We didn't decide where yet, and she's comfortable with anywhere in Japan.)

As for Web development in Japan, I am aware there are certain differences I have no experience with. I'm more of a PHP programmer, but I know they do a lot more Ruby. Many people use their cellphone on the go to browse some mobile Web sites rather than just staying at home. I only know about DoCoMo's iMode (cHTML) and KDDI's EZweb, but obviously, the only cellphone programming experience I have is with the iPhone (Web only, not software, yet). I also know they use QRcodes to conveniently link Web sites people can go to just by taking a snap of the code with their cellphone. Also, they are more fans of Mixi than Facebook. The Japanese Web is very different, and so is Japanese Web development.

When reading the information about the working holiday visa, it says they recommend a job at 20 hours per week, but nothing about forbidding people to work longer hours. Although my intention for going in Japan is to experience the culture, obviously, I'm sure the money will run out. I'm still saving money and I saved around half a year of salary already. That should be enough for a little while. What worries me a bit is the starting salary suggested above is quite lower than my current salary, but I expected that.

I think this should cover the comments I've received so far. Thanks a lot for the comments and the private messages! If there are more comments coming in, I'll certainly read them.
posted by remi at 3:59 AM on July 18, 2009


Many people with Working Holiday visas work full-time (technically part-time, contractually, but at full-time hours) jobs, usually in the eikawa industry. If you can find a job, the working holiday visa allows you to get a foot in the door, and can be extended once or twice, I think.

As for jobs and such, yeah, the economy is in the crapper. Many companies are cutting back or outright eliminating their budgets for English lessons. Many schools are no longer hiring. If you're not up for teaching, but you've only got level three (not just the test, but also level three ability) it can be kind of difficult to other jobs. In Aichi, well, young Japanese people are leaving places like that, mostly because there aren't many jobs there for them, let alone foreigners that require extra paperwork for hiring them. You'll have a much better chance getting work in the Tokyo area. From what I've heard, the Kansai economy is pretty much a shambles, so even teaching isn't that easy to find there.

Have you considered applying for the JET program? It would start next July, though, but that would give you more time to practice your Japanese. If you're okay with teaching, that's an idea. You could also (just to get in the country with a visa), you could apply to Interac, a company that places teachers at junior/senior high schools. They have lousy contracts and low pay, but you might be able to get a job in a place like Aichi through them.

Whatever you decide, good luck.
posted by Ghidorah at 10:10 PM on July 18, 2009


No idea what might be out there, but a random brainwave - would local/provincial governments want an English speaker to work as a spokesperson/representative in some form?
posted by mdonley at 3:20 AM on July 19, 2009


Not much to offer here; just wanted to echo KokuRyu's point about being proactive in your job search efforts now. Even if the responses are lukewarm, touch base again when you're in Japan.

You could also try contacting the Canadian Embassy when you arrive. Google offered this. Maybe they have open positions that don't require Japanese fluency? (I don't know.)

Good luck.
posted by lmm at 7:44 AM on July 19, 2009


It sounds to me like your lady-friend is your number one resource here. Can she talk to anyone who might be able to get you a job? Is there a city where she has connections for affordable housing? I think with her on your side, you'll have no problem in this situation. In fact, I think it sounds like an adventure!

Do it! No regrets! Your budget might be tight for a while, but there's nothing better than hunger to make teaching English look attractive. You wonder if you're crazy for doing this, but I think you'd be crazy not to. Do it!
posted by BusyBusyBusy at 3:34 AM on July 20, 2009


No idea what might be out there, but a random brainwave - would local/provincial governments want an English speaker to work as a spokesperson/representative in some form?

Generally (though not always and not in every municipality), this is done by a Coordinator of International Relations working through the JET Programme. In other cases they will rely on a staffing agency to provide someone, or just use a native Japanese.

But as I mentioned above about the poor economy, these jobs are getting tougher to find.
posted by armage at 5:43 AM on July 20, 2009


I got a job in Japan by leveraging personal connections in the US. As a working-holiday visa holder, you should be more attractive, as you don't require the hassle of visa sponsorship. Talk with people, ask around to see who has connections to people with jobs in your field. It also seems that there are a lot of get-togethers for bloggers and web-people in Tokyo. If you end up there, try to get to one of these and use it for more networking.

One of the big benefits of places further away from Tokyo is that it's a whole pile cheaper. 50000 yen a month will get you a pretty big apartment in most parts of Kyushu, but probably something the size of a cubicle in the Tokyo area. Food's also cheaper out here. However, it's expensive and far if you want to go to Tokyo.

If you have enough money saved up to feel comfortable draining down your savings for a few months, I would say do it! If you just don't find anything after a couple months or so, go back home.
posted by that girl at 6:35 PM on July 20, 2009


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