Which computer class is right for me?

July 15, 2009 1:19 PM

I need the hive's help. Which computer class should I choose: Database Management Systems or Database Management with MS Access?

First I should say I have an idea for a program I might want to develop. A few years ago, with the help of online resources, I wrote an Access db for my checkbook (it uses a good amount of simple VBA) and it does some things I really enjoy. I think other people might enjoy it too, so I'm evaluating the best way to turn it into a non-Access program that's fit for selling. I know it'll have a SQL back-end.

So, this semester I have a choice between two classes. One is Database Management with MS Access which concentrates on Access only, and the other class is Database Management Systems. The DMS class instructor mentioned that they'll be looking at SQL and Oracle, but I don't know if those are all.
I'd like to take the Access class since Access is ubiquitous in small and medium size businesses, and could come in very handy down the road, but, would I learn very much in there that would help me in developing my program, with its SQL back-end?

Also, in case these factors are relevant:
1)I'm going for my mechanical engineering degree. Have already taken an OO Programming Logic and a C++ class, and will have to take at least one Matlab class.
2) I don't anticipate being ever working in the computer field.
3) Even though I wrote the Access db, I still don't think I have a very good all-around understanding of Access. What I learned to do was very task specific so I couldn't quickly "bang out" anything but a very simple db.

Which one should I choose?
Thanks all.

posted by atm to Computers & Internet (15 answers total)

In my opinion, take the Database Management Systems class. You will learn more about relational databases in general, and once you have that knowledge it will be pretty easy to learn Access better at a later time, if you find that you need to. And if anyone ever asks in an interview, you already have prior experience with Access even without the class.

Also, nearly all employers will use databases for something, but not all of them will use Access, so a broader knowledge may be more beneficial.

Of course, for me it was the other way around: I had to jump headfirst into Access at my job, with no prior experience except for one class in high school. From there, though, it didn't take long to catch onto SQL.
posted by relucent at 1:51 PM on July 15, 2009

You practically answered your own question:

I'm evaluating the best way to turn it into a non-Access program that's fit for selling. I know it'll have a SQL back-end. … One is Database Management with MS Access which concentrates on Access only, and the other class is Database Management Systems. The DMS class instructor mentioned that they'll be looking at SQL and Oracle

You obviously have an interest in non-Access databases, you should take the non-Access database class.

Also, if you learn something about "real" databases, you'll be able to figure Access out with the help of a few stiff drinks or a mild concussion if you need to at some point.
posted by Kadin2048 at 2:01 PM on July 15, 2009 [2 favorites]

MS Access is more of a tool and less of a methodology, so you should probably take the other class which would also give you the insight into using access better. Access is also a super old technology whereas databases will be around, if not forever, then a long time.
posted by shownomercy at 2:04 PM on July 15, 2009

What everyone else said. Go learn database fundamentals. Then, if you need to devote a little time to learning the quirks unique to Access, you can do so.
posted by chrisamiller at 2:18 PM on July 15, 2009

so I'm evaluating the best way to turn it into a non-Access program that's fit for selling. I know it'll have a SQL back-end.

I dont see how more Access can help you in this regard. Take the SQL class. Chances are the Access class will be more of a power users tutorial than a proper class.

I'd like to take the Access class since Access is ubiquitous in small and medium size businesses

Is it? Considering how cheap/free a real database is, I dont see a lot of Access anymore. In my experience its just used for legacy junk.
posted by damn dirty ape at 2:22 PM on July 15, 2009

Assuming there will be a hands-on component, take the Database Management Systems class. It sounds like the Access class is about learning Access database administration (which will be hilarious to any other DBAs on Metafilter) while the other class focuses on relational database management systems. You will always be able to apply relational database principles to Access, but you can't generalize Access principles to other DBMSes.

Anyway, I'm a database administrator working primarily with MS SQL Server and Teradata. Feel free to MeMail me if you have any questions.
posted by Maisie at 2:32 PM on July 15, 2009

Take the real databases class, not the Access class. Anything you learn will be useful on Access and generalizable to other databases.
posted by lsemel at 2:41 PM on July 15, 2009

damn dirty ape, my company is lousy with Access databases all over the place. Usually what happens is that some ambitious business person comes up with an Access application without the aid of IT people and then the Access application gains popularity among the business person's cohorts. Next thing you know, the business people dump it on their IT support area and then it gets dumped on my group to turn it into an actual supported DBMS (usually MSSQL; no one in my company of over 30,000 people is responsible for supporting Access). So until the people who build desktops at my company stop installing Access (which I wish was yesterday), we're going to be stuck with the creations the business people dream up.
posted by Maisie at 2:42 PM on July 15, 2009

What kind of a database class doesn't include some time with Access? It's the most available DBMS to get students' to understand things like primary keys and basic SQL. When I took Database Design at NJIT we used Access to learn the fundamentals. It was one of my favorite classes in college, I work with Oracle and SQL Server all day now, haven't touched Access in year.

Take the Database Management Systems class and they'll teach you the fundamentals plus Access. Even if they don't teach Access, you'll learn more than enough to to know what exactly to Google for if you do end up with Access.

The one thing you probably won't learn in the Database Management Systems class is VBA, which is frequently required for bigger Access projects. Just something to keep in mind.
posted by exhilaration at 2:46 PM on July 15, 2009

Another vote to take the DMS class and not the Access class. You should take the most generalized classes in school, and take those skills into specialized training for the specific tool/software. It doesn't work as well the other way around.

What kind of a database class doesn't include some time with Access? It's the most available DBMS to get students' to understand things like primary keys and basic SQL.

Most CS programs I've seen (from interviewing people and my own experience) use Oracle or MySQL. The latter is free, unlike Microsoft's software.

I'd like to take the Access class since Access is ubiquitous in small and medium size businesses

Given how popular and easy web apps are to develop and buy (as a service), I would expect Access usage to drop considerably.
posted by meowzilla at 5:30 PM on July 15, 2009

What kind of a database class doesn't include some time with Access?

Any real database course. Very little of what one learns in Access is directly applicable to a RDBMS. Access is like taking a coloring book to art school. Access is a tool that is quick and dirty, but has very little value outside of that.

Microsoft SQL Server is free (Express Edition), Oracle has a free version, MySQL, Postgres, and many others are free. Stick to learning the fundementals of good database design -- which almost all Access apps seem to totally fail at.
posted by SirStan at 6:37 PM on July 15, 2009

I've got a master's degree in database systems, and about 8 years work experience with SQL Server and Oracle. And Access still kicks my ass, mostly because it is so non-standard and you end up having to go through all that twee wizard crap before you can get into the actual SQL, which STILL doesn't work until you clean it up. GAH!!!!!!!!!!

Take the class that will give you the best theoretical foundation in how real databases work.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 6:51 PM on July 15, 2009

Take DBMS. Access is a horrible monstrosity that never should have existed. Actually, that's not true. Access is for people who don't know any people. People who never had the chance to learn a real DBMS. Do yourself a favor -- if you are one of the few people in this world lucky enough to have a DBMS class available, you take the shit out of it and you never look back.

You'll thank yourself, and so will anyone who ever has to maintain your app.

Peace.
posted by Afroblanco at 10:21 PM on July 15, 2009

Take DBMS. Access is a horrible monstrosity that never should have existed.

(Yeah, lazy I know, but he's right.... *turns back to working on access database*)
posted by pompomtom at 10:42 PM on July 15, 2009

Response by poster: Thanks everybody.
posted by atm at 1:48 PM on July 16, 2009