Do I have a lemon bicycle?

July 13, 2009 12:29 AM

When should I stop repairing this bike and buy a new one? I have a road bike of unknown age which I bought for $95 last year. Since then I've spent half again that on it---truing the back wheel, putting the chain back together after it inexplicably fell off, new (27") tires that won't fit a modern bike's wheels, etc. Now I'm looking at some more repairs, and I'm wondering whether it might be more economical to buy a newer (i.e., slightly nicer, but still used) bicycle. I'm in Chicago and mostly ride to get around the neighborhood, with the odd weekend ride (<25mi, maybe 12-14mph).

To get specific about the repairs in question, the front wheel got
dinged enough that not only does the wheel need truing but the rim must
be reshaped to remove a visible dent. I might even need a new wheel. I'm
also told the front bearings need to be repacked in fresh grease and I
should probably get a new chain. (After this one fell off the first
time, it was put back on by removing a link and connecting its neighbors
directly, leaving it a little too short.) In short, I'll soon have paid
more to repair the bicycle than to buy it. Is this normal, or should I
consider buying another bicycle in better condition? I'd consider
$200-$300 a reasonable price if I could expect several years of use of
it.

If I were to want a good used bicycle, where should I buy it? Ideally it
should also do repairs, and be close enough to Hyde Park that I could
develop a relationship with the mechanics. I volunteer at Blackstone
Bike Coop now, where I bought this bike, and really like how they'll
teach me to do the repair myself instead of just charging for labor
every time I need it. There does seem to be some variation in
friendliness between different bike shops. The man behind the counter at
Working Bikes, for example, seemed to take offense when I came in
looking for a bike two hours after they had opened.

As an aside, my experience with bicycles in the U.S. disagrees with my
parents' recollections of China during their youth. Apparently bicycles
were ubiquitous, cheap, and survived to be handed down from sibling to
sibling. Is this nostalgia at work, or the mechanical simplicity of a
single-speed, or do they just not make them like they used to?

posted by d. z. wang to travel & transportation (23 comments total)

I'd consider $200-$300 a reasonable price if I could expect several years of use of it.

Instead of getting a whole bike as a replacement — or, perhaps, thinking into the future when you need to do repairs on the next bike you buy, used or new — you might consider upgrading components, if you use the bike frequently and need it to be reliable.

Chains are chains, and you can get one for $20 that is as good as any other chain. SRAM or Shimano are more or less interchangeable — you just need to match the chain to the number of gears on your cassette. Your local bike shop will have a tool to remove your current chain and size the new one correctly, or you can buy the tool for $20 and DIY.

Rims and hubs are worth what you pay, in that the more you spend, generally the better they will be. I have a pair of wheels (Mavic Open Pro + Shimano 105 hubs) I spent $300 for and they have survived 4000+ miles and getting doored over the last three years. I only had to get a truing once, after getting doored.

I don't know what the roads are like in Chicago, but in Seattle and Philadelphia, there are pot holes and road debris everywhere. I need my bike to get to and from work, so its reliability is very important to me. So replacing the rims and hubs was the best investment I have made.

I have so far spent about 1.5x what the bike cost when new. If I was wealthier, I would have built up the bike from a frame and separate parts. As I'm not wealthy, I bought a new bike as a package, and upgraded and replaced parts as money was available to do so.

If you're happy with the frame and most of the components, you can target your budget to upgrade those components that work better and last longer.

If you buy an entire replacement bike when you don't need to, you'll get less for the dollar, all else the same, because you'll be paying for things you didn't need to replace. This means that each dollar you spend gets you a bunch of parts that are not the best they can be, for a given budget.

All that said, you mention that you're riding a $95 bike, which I'll bet has lots of bits on it that could use replacement, assuming the frame isn't a total disaster. You might want to look for a good all-around package that is decent enough that you can budget to upgrade parts over the next few years.

I'm probably betraying my bias here, but a gimmicky fixed-gear bicycle is simply not a safe or practical bicycle for the kind of rider you sound like, and the kind of riding you are doing. Leave the fixies to the pretend-bike-messengers.

If you need to go with a used bike over a new bike, look for a good mix of a balanced frame that is not unreasonably heavy (to the extent allowed by your budget) and with parts (gears, wheels, tires, brakes) that look like they are in decent shape. Does the frame look like its rider was in an accident that bent and weakened the frame? If so, pass on it and keep looking. Are the tire treads worn thin? Are the brake cable ends frayed? These are parts you will need to replace sooner rather than later, if they are in bad shape.

And, of course, make sure the bike fits you comfortably by taking it on a test ride.

As for local bike shops, Bike Forums is a really good place to go for recommendations specific to your neighborhood, as well as all-around bicycle maintenance questions. The more maintenance and repair work you do on your own, the more money you'll save.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:41 AM on July 13 [2 favorites]

It sounds as if you might need to adjust your expectations a bit. $50 in maintenance (so far) in one year on a used bike doesn't strike me as at all excessive, especially since you're paying for both parts and labor. You apparently bought a fairly old bike with a lot of parts that were either abused or mostly used-up, but maintenance would still be required on a newer bike.

As BC suggested, the question of whether to keep your current bike or replace it depends mostly on how appropriate its design and basic quality is for your purposes. If you mean to treat it roughly in a rough environment, a delicate road bike may be a poor choice. If it's a heavy, poor-quality frame then repairs may be a bad investment. If it's old enough that compatible parts are hard to get then it might be time to let it go. You haven't told us enough about what you've got and how you ride to make good guesses about any of that.

If you do decide to buy a new bike, my guess is that you might get a better deal through Craigslist than at any bike shop. The bike shops know what their hardware is worth, and they're not going to give it away, whereas a private owner might just want to get rid of something that's in the way. But, you'd probably need a more bike-savvy friend to help you recognize the difference between good deals and bad. If you go that route, look at some bikes for which the asking price is more than you actually want to spend; my experience is that Craigslist sellers often set their asking prices unrealistically high, but become willing to deal when they realize that they're not getting many responses.

To your aside, I live in a small college town where old single- and three-speed bikes are fairly common. They seem to stay in town for decades, being passed amongst students as they rotate through the college. Those old bikes are surprisingly durable. They are also heavy and slow, and don't have enough gears to handle serious hills. It's a legitimate trade-off to make, but you're not comparing apples to apples when you weigh modern, lightweight, multi-speed bikes against those stone-simple models your parents probably remember.
posted by jon1270 at 4:20 AM on July 13

I don't know if you like this type of thing, but packing bearings is an easy thing to do and does not take very long. It's in many ways analogous to changing your oil in your car. What I mean is that there are standard maintenance tasks on a bike, the same as on a car, and at some point you need to decide whether you money or your time is worth more to you. If it's your time, adjust your expectations and expect to pay to cost of getting it done; if it's your money, learn to pack the bearings yourself and revel in a job well done and some money saved.

You did not properly repair your chain. This is not the chain's fault. A new chain is cheap.

Rims get dinged. Crappy rims get dinged much more readily than good rims.
posted by OmieWise at 4:50 AM on July 13

Does the frame really, truly fit you? If the answer is yes, and you have no other problems with it or reason to suspect it's weak/warped, you might as well fix it up (and maybe invest in some upgraded components).

What helped me was the realization that this was my primary transportation, and it was taking the place of a car I'd be spending thousands of dollars per year insuring and maintaining. Suddenly $50 for a new set of lights after a crash, or the occasionaly truing doesn't feel so bad.
posted by Dr.Enormous at 4:56 AM on July 13

Look at it this way: A used, beat-up but mechanically sound bike is MUCH less likely to be a target of theft than an obviously new bike. That's why my new-ish trail bike is only for riding trails, while my 1993 hardtail gets used for riding around town.

When my wife was looking for a commuter bike, I found her a used 1990's era hardtail (same model as mine) and put a wad of cash into updating and upgrading it.
posted by caution live frogs at 5:11 AM on July 13

I'd look into a set of modern 700C size wheels and tires. You might need long-reach brakes, since 700C wheels are smaller than the 27" size you have now. When I did the same, I didn't need to swap the brakes, since the existing brakes had enough reach.
posted by exogenous at 5:37 AM on July 13

I have a road bike of unknown age which I bought for $95 last year. Since then I've spent half again that on it [...] I'll soon have paid more to repair the bicycle than to buy it. Is this normal, or should I consider buying another bicycle in better condition?

I brought my bike on ebay for about $35, and I spend maybe $40 a year keeping it running. I'm doing about 5 miles a day.

The way I see it, it's substantially cheaper than running a car, or getting a bus pass.

To get specific about the repairs in question, the front wheel got dinged enough that not only does the wheel need truing but the rim must be reshaped to remove a visible dent.

I dented a wheel on my bike by hitting into a kerb at moderately high speed (I was learning to jump the bike up them at the time). Since I stopped hitting my bike into kerbs at high speed, the problem has not recurred.

Apparently bicycles were ubiquitous, cheap, and survived to be handed down from sibling to sibling. Is this nostalgia at work, or the mechanical simplicity of a single-speed, or do they just not make them like they used to?

It's probably a combination of factors.
* I've seen people buy cheap ($150) new bikes and find them prone to rusting, so you certainly have the option to save money at the expense of quality. I don't know if it was possible to get a new bike for that little when I was young.
* Gear shifters can be a pain in the ass to maintain, but gears are useful for ascending hills in hot weather when you're not in the mood for getting sweaty.
* Compared to the bikes of my youth, I'm cycling more often (daily, all year, all weather) and demanding more of the bike. When I feel like doing so I can ascend a hill in top gear by standing on the pedals, but I can't really complain when my chain gets stretched after about 2 years, because it's taking my entire body weight at a three-to-one mechanical advantage.
* Also, when I was a child my dad maintained my bike, so my recollections of the amount of work it took could be faulty.
posted by Mike1024 at 5:41 AM on July 13

Parts for bikes are expensive and a lot of those parts aren't very well made.

You're not really giving us quite enough to work with. Hard to say whether you have a nice old bike or a crappy old bike, so you'll need some expert advice locally. If it's worth keeping, get some better wheels and carry on. If not...

The second cheapest way to go is to get a nice older road bike (mid to late 1980's or so) with nice components, particularly wheels. $300-$400 spent on a nicely made old bike will go WAY farther than a $300 new bike. For one thing, most of the bearings will be serviceable. For another, the wheels will stay true. For another, the shifters/derailleurs will be less fidgety.

The cheapest way to go is definitely a fixed gear built up from a nice older frame.

I'm probably betraying my bias here, but a gimmicky fixed-gear bicycle is simply not a safe or practical bicycle for the kind of rider you sound like, and the kind of riding you are doing. Leave the fixies to the pretend-bike-messengers.

I'm not about unsafe or impractical. You need to make sure you've got a hand operated brake and take some care learning to ride one, but in terms of advantages:

They're much easier to ride in heavy traffic...there's none of the constant braking and accelerating. Pacing cars is done unconsciously with your legs.
They're easier to ride on ice or in the snow.
Rear wheels on fixed/SS bikes are stronger because they're not dished as far.
They have way fewer parts...you won't be slamming your rear derailleur on every bike rack in town.
The chain line is straighter so (in my experience) the chains last longer.
They're lighter when you have to schlep it up stairs to your apartment.
They're an awesome workout.
They teach you to pedal properly.
They're deliciously silent.
Track stands make red lights fun.

Just because a ton of annoying hipsters ride 'em doesn't mean fixed gears aren't awesome. And many of those advantages can be had by doing a single speed rather than a fixie.
posted by paanta at 6:30 AM on July 13

Is this normal, or should I consider buying another bicycle in better condition?

Any bicycle you buy will need routine maintenance and occasional repair.

That said, if you're starting with a bike that has been never been cared for or has been abused then you'll have a lot of "catch-up" work to do.

The most economical way to ride a bicycle is to learn to do the work yourself. It's not that complicated and there are good bike repair books out there for the novice.

What I WOULDN'T DO is fallow much of the advice here suggesting you upgrade or swap parts on the bike you have. Unless you're in love with the frame, it's always a money loosing process. And I certainly wouldn't ride a fixed gear if you value your knee cartilage or dignity. The freewheel was invented for a reason...

So, you have a few options:

1. Bite the bullet, pay the bill, have the bike fixed as needed by a pro.

2. Learn to fix the bike yourself, knowing that this requires elbow grease, and at least a cupboard of specialty tools and spare parts.

3. Buy a new(er) bike knowing that routine maintenance and the occasional repair is just part of the joy of owning and riding a bike.

No matter what, consider yourself lucky to live in Chicago - the most bicycle friendly city in the nation - where a bicycle is a viable form of transportation.

If you need specific help, MeFi mail me - I'm here in Chicago too and have many years experience turning bolts on bikes.
posted by wfrgms at 6:49 AM on July 13

For around town, an internal gear hub is pretty great too, as you get some of the advantages of a fixed gear: less exposed easily damaged parts, straight chainline, etc. AND you get some gears to shift when the land decides to go uphill or down.

The best part is, you can shift gears when you are stopped, and advantage over a traditional rear deraileur...

I've seen the shimano nexus offering do daily commuting trouble free for a few years (and still going):
http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/products/0/nexus.html

Might be something to think about if you're to get new wheels.
posted by csmason at 7:03 AM on July 13

Depending on where you are, $95 is almost nothing to spend on a bike. Here in NYC, $100 typically gets you a bike with plenty of wear and tear. It's the kind of bike people buy on a whim, or just to get through the summer, for getting around in their immediate neighborhood.

Any cheap bike is sure to end up being a fixer-upper. I bought one of these $100 jobs last summer, and have probably sunk about $200 into repairs (that includes 2 tune-ups). I don't really mind, because the expense has been gradual (whereas buying a nicer bike would have been an immediate expense). Also, this bike is far less likely to be stolen, because it looks older. Once I made the initial repairs, it was quite a while before anything else came up, and the stuff that did come up could just as easily have happened to a nicer bike.

Given enough time, you will end up replacing almost every part of the bike at least once. If you need to have a better prima materia in order to make this feel worthwhile, then go ahead and buy a nicer bike. Expect to still have to pay for something to be fixed within the first six months, because shit happens. I would stick with the older bike and just perform maintenance as needed, but then maybe I'm only saying that because that's the decision I already made with mine.
posted by hermitosis at 7:04 AM on July 13

Keeping an old bike running is a hobby, and like any hobby it will take up some of your time and money. You've got easy access to great resources in Chicago to keep it cheap. I've never been to Blackstone, but West Town bikes has maintenance classes and open shop times, with all the tools you could dream of. Working Bikes is great for scrounging for parts; they will have plenty of 27" front wheels. By the way, I've always found the folks at Working Bikes to be cheerful, but maybe someone was having a bad day. Their retail model is a little different, though. People line up before they open and they sell out of most of their stock in the first half hour.

If you'd rather avoid the hassle, $200 -$300 will get you a perfectly usable low-end hybrid or mountain bike. It will easily last you a couple of years, or dozens if it is properly cared for. Most shops offer a free tune-up within a year of purchase. My only bike shop recommendation would be to avoid Village Cycle Center.
posted by hydrophonic at 7:08 AM on July 13

As an aside, my experience with bicycles in the U.S. disagrees with my
parents' recollections of China during their youth. Apparently bicycles
were ubiquitous, cheap, and survived to be handed down from sibling to
sibling. Is this nostalgia at work, or the mechanical simplicity of a
single-speed, or do they just not make them like they used to?

If you'd like to go the way of your parents, you can get the Flying Pigeon. This is, apparently, THE bike from China.

Harder to find here, though. I only see retailers in LA and possibly Portland.

They look pretty sweet!
posted by orme at 7:37 AM on July 13

Your wheels date your bike as being at least 25 years old. Replacement parts for these are available, but naturally they are expensive and aimed at the enthusiast. As exogenous says, if you can lower your brakes 4mm you can fit 700C wheels.


In short, I'll soon have paid
more to repair the bicycle than to buy it. Is this normal, or should I
consider buying another bicycle in better condition?

Servicing your bicycle is normal, servicing a 25 year old $90 bike is very normal. This is why your bike was cheap.

200-300 dollars could easily help you replace the chain and wheels of your current bike ( all the more so if you find out that your brakes will take 700C rims, and your hubs can be regreased and then reused to build your new wheels). The killer will be the state of your drive train - if your freewheel (probably not a cassette) or chain rings are causing the chain wear which resulted in your chain falling off - it will do the same to your next chain. If your bottom bracket is difficult to service and in poor condition, it will cause your riding experience to be sucky, the same goes for gear shifting. Get these aspects of the bike checked out at this nice bike-coop you mention. Therefore, with a lot of provisos, you could be better off repairing your bike.

However, if these provisos are not met you could be better buying a newer used bike, with more standardised parts in better condition. If you find yourself at this point then just look at it this way, at least now you know what kinds of wear to look for when choosing a new one. Learning from your mistakes is always money well spent.

Learning to do your own bike work, and maintaining older bikes is great fun , but it isn't for everyone. Cycling in general however, should be for everyone. Many new bikes are well made, even at 'entry' level. Note entry level does not mean BSO level. It means Carrera level.
posted by munchbunch at 8:00 AM on July 13

$95 is cheap. I'd expect any bike that I got for that amount to need serious repairs.

Repacking hubs is easy. Replacing chains is easy and should be done regularly anyhow. If you've got a dinged rim, you might want to buy a new wheel or get a new rim laced onto the existing hub (which could be more expensive, considering labor costs). You could relace the wheel yourself, although doing a good job of it takes practice.

I am not an advocate of fixies, but since you live in Chicago (zero hills), a single-speed would be a reasonable proposition if you want to replace the bike you have now. Many bikes sold as fixies have flip-flop hubs with a freewheel (or at least threading for a freewheel) on the opposite side. Just make sure it has brakes. I've seen $300 fixies new, and if you keep a keen eye out on Craigslist, I'm sure you could do better.

I've seen the Flying Pigeon at a bike store here in Austin, and that really is the classic Chinese bike, based on what I think is an old Raleigh "roadster."
posted by adamrice at 8:11 AM on July 13

The answers so far have been pretty good, so I'll try not to be repetitive..

The way I look at it, maintenance is a process. Your parents in China probably understood that, but modern western society doesn't.

Important questions that haven't really been addressed:
How much do you ride? How hard/fast do you ride? How heavy are you? You need a bike that fits you. Not so much in terms of geometry (which gets brought up all the time, and is important but way over emphasised), but in terms of build quality, weight, riding position, gearing, breaking power...
posted by Chuckles at 10:40 AM on July 13

If fixing the bike gives you a sense of satisfaction I'd say keep fixing it. If you had to dump $100 a year on it, you're proably spending less on it that you would on gas for the same amount of driving around. If you consider it a pain, maybe it's time to move on.

I'm not sure about China, but I suspect it's one part selective memory, one part what you're willing to put up with, and one part sacrifice of quality to keep prices down.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 10:53 AM on July 13

I'm in Chicago and mostly ride to get around the neighborhood, with the odd weekend ride (<2>

Argh! Must learn to read questions thoroughly...

That riding profile in all weather means annual maintenance is required. Chain, break pads, and cable housing will last you 2-3 years if you avoid bad weather, but perhaps only one year in all weather.

Whether this bike should be repaired or a new bike acquired really depends on the details raised by other answers above. I do agree that trying for 700c wheels on the old bike is a good idea, because the newer standard will be easier/cheaper to maintain (I expect that riding 27 on the back and 700c on the front is probably perfectly fine, so you only need to fix the one wheel for now--Sheldon Brown agrees).

I think it is worth mentioning that mountain bike 26" wheels and straight bar shifters and break levers are cheaper, making mountain bikes cheaper to maintain in general.. Not that you should be replacing your bike, but people who are price sensitive should keep that in mind.
posted by Chuckles at 11:05 AM on July 13

I think fixed gear bikes are great, and suitable for your purposes. You would probably need to spend a few hours in a parking lot acclimating to the constant rotation and using your legs as brakes, but I found it pretty easy to get used to. And as others have said, there are just fewer parts to buy and maintain. I ride year round with a ~4 mile commute with my fixed gear in Minneapolis, and I probably spend $150/year in maintenance to keep it in great shape, which is much cheaper than driving or busing, and more fun. Pay no attention to the people who only comment on fixed gear riders and not the qualities of the actual bike.
posted by look busy at 11:42 AM on July 13

Thanks for all the replies. I see that I haven't been giving enough
information.

Jon1270: It sounds as if you might need to adjust your expectations a
bit. $50 in maintenance (so far) in one year on a used bike doesn't
strike me as at all excessive, especially since you're paying for both
parts and labor.

I hadn't thought of it that way before. You're right in that $50 is very
little to pay for a good six months' transportation. It was just the
ratio of maintenance to purchase costs that was worrying me.

OmieWise: there are standard maintenance tasks on a bike, the same as
on a car, and at some point you need to decide whether you money or your
time is worth more to you.

I don't know if I made this clear, but I am learning to do the
maintenance myself, and Blackstone (where I volunteer) seems willing to
let me use their tools on my own bicycle. So to an extent I can expect
my labor costs to go down as I learn more.

munchbunch: 200-300 dollars could easily help you replace the chain
and wheels of your current bike.

paanta: $300-$400 spent on a nicely made old bike will go WAY farther
than a $300 new bike.

I was speaking with someone else about this and somehow got offered a
used Target bike for $200. The sense I get from the previous replies is
that this would be a bad deal, but can anyone go into detail about why?
This is the bike: http://www.amazon.com/GMC-Denali-Road-57-5cm-Frame/dp/B000FDDDGU
posted by d. z. wang at 12:09 PM on July 13

I was speaking with someone else about this and somehow got offered a
used Target bike for $200. The sense I get from the previous replies is
that this would be a bad deal, but can anyone go into detail about why?

This type of bike is what's often known generically as a 'department store bike'. These are mass-produced from poor quality components and are typically very poorly assembled as well. (for instance the amazon reviews of the model you linked shows these are shipping with the wrong size seat post, and though being slightly more expensive it has a cheap shimano rear derailleur at least, the chainset is made from stamped steel and will never be good). I have seen these, new in the shop, in unsafe to ride to state. They often break very quickly and are more or less sold with the expectation that they will be ridden for a year or so, till they break to be thrown away or replaced. Or just as likely will be ridden for a couple of weeks till the owners gets put off by the poor quality and sticks it in the garage to rust while they go back to driving. You would probably need to fix this just as frequently as your existing bike, if not more so, and no amount of adjusting will ever make it ride well.

By contrast your existing bike has enough going for it that is still going after what is probably 30 years or so and that means it was worth enough for someone to d othe maintenance to make sure it got there.
posted by tallus at 1:27 PM on July 13 [1 favorite]

d. z. wang,

In reading your comments again I'd like to just add one more piece of advice:

Spend sometime browsing new bikes at various local bike shops. You don't need to buy, but a few test rides and some familiarity with styles will help you round out your knowledge.

You'll also get a sense of value between a $300 bike and a $1300 bike which will help you when looking at older bikes.

I'm with the poster above who said it's better to spend $300 on a quality old bike than the same on a new one with the only caveat being that you should develop an eye toward condition as well as quality. A very nice vintage bike isn't worth the hassle if it's been abused and left out in the elements for its life.

Also, ignore all of the advice on fixed gears. I regret that it's increasingly hard to have a bike thread here in the green without certain "types" extolling the non-existent virtues of what is essentially a dangerous and idiotic fad which is thankfully waning.
posted by wfrgms at 10:40 PM on July 13

I was speaking with someone else about this and somehow got offered a
used Target bike for $200. The sense I get from the previous replies is
that this would be a bad deal, but can anyone go into detail about why?


The first reason is that the bike you linked to only costs $136 . The second reason is that it has some excentricities that mark it out as especially unique amongst bicycle shaped objects (BSOs). For example it has drop handle bars, but hybrid grip shifters. They achieve this by cutting the handle bars in half sliding the shifters on and then welding the bars back together - placing a new rod through the middle for extra strength. As far as BSOs go, its not the worst I've ever seen, but as tallus says they are sub-optimal. I am not too familiar with the American bike market (UK filter: delcared) but you would be better off buying an ew bike from a bicycle retailer than Wallmart at this or any price band - if that is to be your decision.
posted by munchbunch at 7:17 AM on July 14