Moved out, but not moved out.
July 10, 2009 6:09 AM Subscribe
We separated over a month ago, but everything she owns aside from the bare necessities are still in my apartment.
Background: Things fell apart. She admittedly neglected me, and I needed space to sort out my feelings. After getting no space, I asked her to stay at her parents, and she agreed. The next day, a family member died, and I left town to help take care of that. Meanwhile, I let her stay at our apartment, which was a bad move on my part. We talked while I was gone, and I thought we sorted things out.
I was wrong. I walked into our home, and less than an hour later, things were already going downhill. Four days later, I asked her to leave.
She's been living with her parents, but all of her stuff is still in my apartment. We were talking about working things out until about a week ago, but then she checked out and became extremely distant. I can understand that she's going through a lot of back-and-forth stuff in her head right now regarding us, and by that, I mean that she's hitting extreme opposites with what she's said to me. The only things she's said to me in our last few conversations is "I don't know," "okay," and "I can't talk to you right now," even when she initiates the conversation. I asked her if she'd go to counseling with me, and once again, it was "I don't know."
Due to those things, I've decided to immediately distance myself from the situation, as it's not going anywhere healthy. Last night, I started packing her stuff for her, because having a constant reminder of the past isn't exactly healthy, and she's made absolutely no effort to do anything about finishing the move herself.
I do love her, but this isn't right for me. Not like this. I've been nothing but clear and straightforward about everything, and while I can't expect the same in return at this point, this is turning dumb in a big way.
So, here's the actual question: Why in the hell would someone act like that, yet leave their stuff behind and not finish moving out? Why would they leave bills in their name? Why won't she just move out and get it over with?
Background: Things fell apart. She admittedly neglected me, and I needed space to sort out my feelings. After getting no space, I asked her to stay at her parents, and she agreed. The next day, a family member died, and I left town to help take care of that. Meanwhile, I let her stay at our apartment, which was a bad move on my part. We talked while I was gone, and I thought we sorted things out.
I was wrong. I walked into our home, and less than an hour later, things were already going downhill. Four days later, I asked her to leave.
She's been living with her parents, but all of her stuff is still in my apartment. We were talking about working things out until about a week ago, but then she checked out and became extremely distant. I can understand that she's going through a lot of back-and-forth stuff in her head right now regarding us, and by that, I mean that she's hitting extreme opposites with what she's said to me. The only things she's said to me in our last few conversations is "I don't know," "okay," and "I can't talk to you right now," even when she initiates the conversation. I asked her if she'd go to counseling with me, and once again, it was "I don't know."
Due to those things, I've decided to immediately distance myself from the situation, as it's not going anywhere healthy. Last night, I started packing her stuff for her, because having a constant reminder of the past isn't exactly healthy, and she's made absolutely no effort to do anything about finishing the move herself.
I do love her, but this isn't right for me. Not like this. I've been nothing but clear and straightforward about everything, and while I can't expect the same in return at this point, this is turning dumb in a big way.
So, here's the actual question: Why in the hell would someone act like that, yet leave their stuff behind and not finish moving out? Why would they leave bills in their name? Why won't she just move out and get it over with?
This post was deleted for the following reason: poster's request -- jessamyn
She is doing this because she is having trouble coming to terms with the situation. It sounds like she still thinks that there is a slight chance that you two might work it out.
If you are sure there isn't, you need to show her that it won't happen.
Pack up her stuff in boxes. Contact her or have a mutual friend contact her and set up an appointment where she picks it up. Be polite and respectful. You do not have to be there if you don't want to be but make sure you get the keys back. Either have her leave them in the mailbox or give them to a friend.
If she doesn't pick up her stuff, take it to goodwill and let her know where it is.
posted by chillmost at 6:19 AM on July 10, 2009
If you are sure there isn't, you need to show her that it won't happen.
Pack up her stuff in boxes. Contact her or have a mutual friend contact her and set up an appointment where she picks it up. Be polite and respectful. You do not have to be there if you don't want to be but make sure you get the keys back. Either have her leave them in the mailbox or give them to a friend.
If she doesn't pick up her stuff, take it to goodwill and let her know where it is.
posted by chillmost at 6:19 AM on July 10, 2009
We were talking about working things out until about a week ago, ... I asked her if she'd go to counseling with me, and once again, it was "I don't know." ... I've decided to immediately distance myself from the situation,... this isn't right for me. Not like this.
I can't tell whether you're broken up or not. It doesn't sound at all like you guys broke up a month ago. Sounds like the door is still open.
I've been nothing but clear and straightforward about everything,
Sorry but I don't see that from what you've written here.
So, here's the actual question: Why in the hell would someone act like that, yet leave their stuff behind and not finish moving out? Why would they leave bills in their name? Why won't she just move out and get it over with?
Maybe she doesn't realize that you decided last night (after asking her to go to couples counseling) that she should have already moved her stuff out. Seeing her stuff in boxes might come as quite a surprise to her, if she doesn't realize you've actually broken up.
So here's a question for you: Are you putting her stuff in boxes because they're in the way and you want to get your apartment straightened out so you can move on? Or are you maybe putting her stuff in boxes so that she'll realize you're serious this time, and maybe answer your request for couples counseling with "yes" instead of "I don't know"?
posted by headnsouth at 6:20 AM on July 10, 2009
I can't tell whether you're broken up or not. It doesn't sound at all like you guys broke up a month ago. Sounds like the door is still open.
I've been nothing but clear and straightforward about everything,
Sorry but I don't see that from what you've written here.
So, here's the actual question: Why in the hell would someone act like that, yet leave their stuff behind and not finish moving out? Why would they leave bills in their name? Why won't she just move out and get it over with?
Maybe she doesn't realize that you decided last night (after asking her to go to couples counseling) that she should have already moved her stuff out. Seeing her stuff in boxes might come as quite a surprise to her, if she doesn't realize you've actually broken up.
So here's a question for you: Are you putting her stuff in boxes because they're in the way and you want to get your apartment straightened out so you can move on? Or are you maybe putting her stuff in boxes so that she'll realize you're serious this time, and maybe answer your request for couples counseling with "yes" instead of "I don't know"?
posted by headnsouth at 6:20 AM on July 10, 2009
Holy wow, rapid responses.
More details:
3.5 year relationship.
Me: 29
Her: 30
After a lot of soul searching and sleepless nights, I asked her if she wanted to work things out. She said she'd talk about it. Then she said no. Then yes. Then maybe. Then "in the forseeable future." Then "I don't know if we can be happy together." The back and forth nature of things is what's making me want to move on, because it's negatively impacting my life. Now I'm taking my space, and giving her space. Part of that is me having my own actual, physical space.
headnsouth: Whether we're broken up for good or not is yet to be determined. What has been determined is that she doesn't live here and won't be coming back any time soon, and that she's living with her parents. She got a new job there, etc.
Hivemind, seriously, don't hold back here. If I'm being a dick about any of this, call me out on it.
posted by onedarkride at 6:30 AM on July 10, 2009
More details:
3.5 year relationship.
Me: 29
Her: 30
After a lot of soul searching and sleepless nights, I asked her if she wanted to work things out. She said she'd talk about it. Then she said no. Then yes. Then maybe. Then "in the forseeable future." Then "I don't know if we can be happy together." The back and forth nature of things is what's making me want to move on, because it's negatively impacting my life. Now I'm taking my space, and giving her space. Part of that is me having my own actual, physical space.
headnsouth: Whether we're broken up for good or not is yet to be determined. What has been determined is that she doesn't live here and won't be coming back any time soon, and that she's living with her parents. She got a new job there, etc.
Hivemind, seriously, don't hold back here. If I'm being a dick about any of this, call me out on it.
posted by onedarkride at 6:30 AM on July 10, 2009
You're not being a dick. You're just confused, and finding it difficult to make a clean break. It doesn't sound like either of you are ready to be in a healthy relationship right now. Pack up her stuff and gently give it back to her, then cut off contact with her for a good long while until you get your head screwed back on straight.
posted by jon1270 at 6:34 AM on July 10, 2009
posted by jon1270 at 6:34 AM on July 10, 2009
I can't really comment on the relationship stuff, but having JUST moved, I can say that it's a complete pain in the ass even when you're not going through an emotional crisis. The last time I moved, a family member had just died, and it was complete torture. I could not get myself together and my husband ended up doing 90% of the work. I can totally understand not wanting to go back to "the scene of the crime" if she's torn up about this. If you're up for packing boxes, and want to get the stuff out of your way, then go ahead and do it. Tell her when she can pick it up, or if you're feeling especially generous, drop it off. She may not have room for it at her current place, so be ready with storage suggestions. PODS was a wonderful thing to have during our last move.
posted by desjardins at 6:38 AM on July 10, 2009
posted by desjardins at 6:38 AM on July 10, 2009
I agree with the folks above that the topography does not seem all that settled. Breakups are like that, particularly when you've been with the person for a while. Despite (because of?) your time together, she may not know what you're thinking--or what she's thinking. Leaving her stuff at your place is a sign she is ambivalent about the breakup.
Just come out in the open and say what you want from her, e.g., "This is a confusing and difficult time for both of us. I hope we can work things out, but in the interim, since you've moved out, I think it is time for you to remove your stuff and change the address on your bills."
posted by Admiral Haddock at 6:41 AM on July 10, 2009
Just come out in the open and say what you want from her, e.g., "This is a confusing and difficult time for both of us. I hope we can work things out, but in the interim, since you've moved out, I think it is time for you to remove your stuff and change the address on your bills."
posted by Admiral Haddock at 6:41 AM on July 10, 2009
Best answer: (philosophical filter)
Sometimes people make decisive stands because anything -- even making a bad decision or having one made for you -- feels better than leaving things hanging, letting things be unresolved for a while. Being in a place of not knowing can provoke a lot of existential anxiety and fear. Deciding things (literally, "killing off" other options) can feel clean and freeing.
The problem is, you can take decisive action (say "it's totally over" or pack up her things and send them off to her) and a minute later feel unresolved again if you were only taking the action to feel reduce the anxiety you feel about the unresolved nature of things.
Sounds like part of what's going on is that both of you may be trying to either force a premature decision (you) or force the other person to make one (her). Her ambivalence and "I don't know" stance may be a way to try to force you to make the decision she thinks she wants but can't make herself. I don't think that's an uncommon (somewhat dysfunctional) relationship dynamic. Decision-making can be a relief, once it's done, but it's often an exhausting process when there are a lot of variables.
Maybe wait a bit and let things be unresolved. You'll feel better temporarily if you just end things now and send her packing, but it might not be the best long-term choice.
On preview: 3.5 years? OK, either she's decided this relationship isn't going to work and is simply afraid to make the major decision of ending it, because it means she's 'wasted' 3.5 years of her life, she has to start again and that's a gigantic pain, and what of she's wrong? -- so she wants you to decide and absolve her of responsibility; or, she's afraid this is the lifelong relationship for her and that's also a gigantic step, emotionally, and she's getting cold feet and is looking for signs that you're really in it for good and that it will all work out well.
I hope you can tell the difference. Good luck!
posted by mmw at 6:45 AM on July 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Sometimes people make decisive stands because anything -- even making a bad decision or having one made for you -- feels better than leaving things hanging, letting things be unresolved for a while. Being in a place of not knowing can provoke a lot of existential anxiety and fear. Deciding things (literally, "killing off" other options) can feel clean and freeing.
The problem is, you can take decisive action (say "it's totally over" or pack up her things and send them off to her) and a minute later feel unresolved again if you were only taking the action to feel reduce the anxiety you feel about the unresolved nature of things.
Sounds like part of what's going on is that both of you may be trying to either force a premature decision (you) or force the other person to make one (her). Her ambivalence and "I don't know" stance may be a way to try to force you to make the decision she thinks she wants but can't make herself. I don't think that's an uncommon (somewhat dysfunctional) relationship dynamic. Decision-making can be a relief, once it's done, but it's often an exhausting process when there are a lot of variables.
Maybe wait a bit and let things be unresolved. You'll feel better temporarily if you just end things now and send her packing, but it might not be the best long-term choice.
On preview: 3.5 years? OK, either she's decided this relationship isn't going to work and is simply afraid to make the major decision of ending it, because it means she's 'wasted' 3.5 years of her life, she has to start again and that's a gigantic pain, and what of she's wrong? -- so she wants you to decide and absolve her of responsibility; or, she's afraid this is the lifelong relationship for her and that's also a gigantic step, emotionally, and she's getting cold feet and is looking for signs that you're really in it for good and that it will all work out well.
I hope you can tell the difference. Good luck!
posted by mmw at 6:45 AM on July 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Ambiguity as to status of the relationship = your lives remain entangled.
It sounds like you're going to have to be decisive here - either break it off in no uncertain terms or get that counseling lined up with a specific date and time. And it sounds like you know the one immutable rule of move-out break-ups = break-up initiator does the packing, no exceptions.
posted by EatTheWeek at 6:52 AM on July 10, 2009
It sounds like you're going to have to be decisive here - either break it off in no uncertain terms or get that counseling lined up with a specific date and time. And it sounds like you know the one immutable rule of move-out break-ups = break-up initiator does the packing, no exceptions.
posted by EatTheWeek at 6:52 AM on July 10, 2009
Admiral Haddock: I never said that her moving her things out closes the door on anything. What I said was that it wasn't okay for me to look at all of her things while the rest of this gets worked out. I'm fine with leaving things unresolved as far as where we stand. If it's possible for us to work things out, we will. If not, we won't.
mmw: I've told her I want to work on things with no uncertainty, and in great detail. I've told her what I want, expect, and need. Sometimes she was okay with it, sometimes not so much. That's where things got wishy-washy, and I decided I had to back away and distance myself from her so we both have enough space to get our respective shit straight.
posted by onedarkride at 6:52 AM on July 10, 2009
mmw: I've told her I want to work on things with no uncertainty, and in great detail. I've told her what I want, expect, and need. Sometimes she was okay with it, sometimes not so much. That's where things got wishy-washy, and I decided I had to back away and distance myself from her so we both have enough space to get our respective shit straight.
posted by onedarkride at 6:52 AM on July 10, 2009
The back and forth nature of things is what's making me want to move on...
Did you tell her this specific statement? Did you ask her any of the questions you've posted? If so, what did she say?
Yeah, it sounds like you're being a dick*. The relationship is ending and you're wondering about practical matters? Not everyone thinks like that. Why won't she move and get it over with? You know her better than us, surely you think of a few reasons why she's having trouble here, yes? Maybe she's tired (is she in the midst of school or a lot of hours at work) and can't summon the emotional energy to deal with this. Maybe she's hoping things work out. Maybe she's scared of the change and trying to put it off.
* Sometimes you have be dick and it sounds like you're doing it for the right reasons, i.e. trying to reclaim some of your own space and get own with your life. But perhaps a bit more understanding and sympathy on your part would be good. Maybe you've done that and it's just not coming across in this post, but think about it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:58 AM on July 10, 2009 [4 favorites]
Did you tell her this specific statement? Did you ask her any of the questions you've posted? If so, what did she say?
Yeah, it sounds like you're being a dick*. The relationship is ending and you're wondering about practical matters? Not everyone thinks like that. Why won't she move and get it over with? You know her better than us, surely you think of a few reasons why she's having trouble here, yes? Maybe she's tired (is she in the midst of school or a lot of hours at work) and can't summon the emotional energy to deal with this. Maybe she's hoping things work out. Maybe she's scared of the change and trying to put it off.
* Sometimes you have be dick and it sounds like you're doing it for the right reasons, i.e. trying to reclaim some of your own space and get own with your life. But perhaps a bit more understanding and sympathy on your part would be good. Maybe you've done that and it's just not coming across in this post, but think about it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:58 AM on July 10, 2009 [4 favorites]
It really sounds like the relationship isn't salvageable at this point. It doesn't really matter why she left her stuff behind. Pack it up, and schedule a time to deliver it or have someone pick it up. Kindness is a good approach to confusing problems.
posted by theora55 at 7:09 AM on July 10, 2009
posted by theora55 at 7:09 AM on July 10, 2009
Maybe the idea of you being there with her as she packs her stuff & moves out is too much for her -- I can see this, anyway. Maybe make an offer of "I'll vacate the apartment all day next Saturday, so you can do your packing & moving in peace," if that's the problem.
I have been here before -- something like "Fine, I'll come get my shit -- just make sure you're gone when I get there to pack." Of course, that was a relationship that ended with some acrimony, so this may not apply. Just tossing it out there.
Either way, give it a little more time. Try to compromise. finding your shit in boxes on the curb is pretty disheartening, so maybe try not to make her go through that. but set a deadline that she agrees to, so if it comes down to it, she understands you put her shit on the curb because SHE missed a deadline that you both agreed to.
Stop with the wishy-washy.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:14 AM on July 10, 2009
I have been here before -- something like "Fine, I'll come get my shit -- just make sure you're gone when I get there to pack." Of course, that was a relationship that ended with some acrimony, so this may not apply. Just tossing it out there.
Either way, give it a little more time. Try to compromise. finding your shit in boxes on the curb is pretty disheartening, so maybe try not to make her go through that. but set a deadline that she agrees to, so if it comes down to it, she understands you put her shit on the curb because SHE missed a deadline that you both agreed to.
Stop with the wishy-washy.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:14 AM on July 10, 2009
Moving her stuff out of your apartment sends a VERY equivocal statement that the relationship is over, dead, and buried. Move along, folks, there's nothing left to salvage.
The question is, are you ready to send such a statement?
posted by almostwitty at 7:18 AM on July 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
The question is, are you ready to send such a statement?
posted by almostwitty at 7:18 AM on July 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Whether we're broken up for good or not is yet to be determined.
Yeah, that's probably why she hasn't finished moving out or changed the bills or anything yet. She probably thinks if you do get back together then you might be living together again soon or at least it wouldn't be such a problem to have stuff at your place.
If the real question is why hasn't she come to a final decision already, then the answer is that break-ups are messy, and the dissolution of a years-long, live-in relationship takes more than a few weeks to get all sorted out.
It also sounds like you're being at least as wishy-washy as she is. You asked her to move out, then it sounds like you're willing to get back together if she is, putting that decision in her hands. And then it sounds like the only reason you're no longer willing to get back together is that she can't decide whether to get back together. So if she did want to get back together, you would, but since she hasn't decided yet, you won't. I can see how she'd be a bit confused.
If you want the decision to be over already, then stop waiting on her and just tell her it's over and ask her to come get her things. If you want her to make the decision instead of you, but you don't want to wait any longer to find out what the decision is, well, you can't have both. If you leave it to her, then it's in her hands, and she'll decide when she's good and ready.
posted by lampoil at 7:18 AM on July 10, 2009
Yeah, that's probably why she hasn't finished moving out or changed the bills or anything yet. She probably thinks if you do get back together then you might be living together again soon or at least it wouldn't be such a problem to have stuff at your place.
If the real question is why hasn't she come to a final decision already, then the answer is that break-ups are messy, and the dissolution of a years-long, live-in relationship takes more than a few weeks to get all sorted out.
It also sounds like you're being at least as wishy-washy as she is. You asked her to move out, then it sounds like you're willing to get back together if she is, putting that decision in her hands. And then it sounds like the only reason you're no longer willing to get back together is that she can't decide whether to get back together. So if she did want to get back together, you would, but since she hasn't decided yet, you won't. I can see how she'd be a bit confused.
If you want the decision to be over already, then stop waiting on her and just tell her it's over and ask her to come get her things. If you want her to make the decision instead of you, but you don't want to wait any longer to find out what the decision is, well, you can't have both. If you leave it to her, then it's in her hands, and she'll decide when she's good and ready.
posted by lampoil at 7:18 AM on July 10, 2009
Another thought: it sounds as if you made the decision(s) to end things. You feel bad about this, so you want her consent, her support of your unilateral decision, and you've got it in her head that if she were to voluntarily move her stuff out then that would signal her consent and you wouldn't have to feel so bad anymore. But you're not getting that clear consent, and it's driving you nuts. Leaving her stuff at your place is the only way she knows to resist, and you know it. If this is the case, the way out of this misery is to take responsibility for the decision that you made. You made this choice, for your reasons. Man up and admit that you did something for yourself. She does not owe you her agreement, and you need to learn to do without it.
posted by jon1270 at 7:21 AM on July 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by jon1270 at 7:21 AM on July 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Best answer: If it's possible for us to work things out, we will. If not, we won't.
Do her a favor and pack her stuff up nicely for her and drop it off at a mutual friend's or her parents'. I think you're just asking too much. "Do this! Do that!" You wanted her to leave, so she's done so. It takes a lot more planning to move stuff, especially since you left the door open to being a couple again.
And you sound really angry about her not being any more decisive than you've been. I would be afraid to get my stuff just because of the fear of facing someone who gets angry.
You two have been living together. She's living with her parents now. That alone would put any 30 year old into a downward spiral. Maybe she's deeply depressed now and doesn't need any more people making demands on her.
Just pack her stuff up. Do it nicely.
posted by anniecat at 7:24 AM on July 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Do her a favor and pack her stuff up nicely for her and drop it off at a mutual friend's or her parents'. I think you're just asking too much. "Do this! Do that!" You wanted her to leave, so she's done so. It takes a lot more planning to move stuff, especially since you left the door open to being a couple again.
And you sound really angry about her not being any more decisive than you've been. I would be afraid to get my stuff just because of the fear of facing someone who gets angry.
You two have been living together. She's living with her parents now. That alone would put any 30 year old into a downward spiral. Maybe she's deeply depressed now and doesn't need any more people making demands on her.
Just pack her stuff up. Do it nicely.
posted by anniecat at 7:24 AM on July 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
I just wanted to add that you said that you would be willing to work on the relationship but packing up her stuff after you have already kicked her out clearly indicates that this relationship is TOTALLY OVER, no chance to recover.
I think that you are being unclear. If my boyfriend asked me to go to counseling then moved all my stuff out the next day, I'd think wtf??? How can you dump me WHILE trying to fix our relationship??
posted by saradarlin at 7:49 AM on July 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think that you are being unclear. If my boyfriend asked me to go to counseling then moved all my stuff out the next day, I'd think wtf??? How can you dump me WHILE trying to fix our relationship??
posted by saradarlin at 7:49 AM on July 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm confused as to why she is the person moving out. It sounds like the two of you lived there together for a while, and it also sounds like you are the one who really wants to not be living together anymore. Given that, it might make more sense for both of you if you were the one to move out.
posted by lunasol at 8:04 AM on July 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by lunasol at 8:04 AM on July 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
You're not telling us what's wrong. Do you know what's wrong? Is there anything you can point to? Is there something to fix? This generalized "need to get our respective shit together" thing is one of the classic failure modes for relationships. Her ambivalence is total "I don't have the balls to end it" stuff.
This doesn't sound real promising. End it amicably and there's always the chance for another shot if she realizes she's made a terrible mistake. Pack it up, store it in a closet for a month to be sure, then send it to her.
posted by paanta at 8:14 AM on July 10, 2009
This doesn't sound real promising. End it amicably and there's always the chance for another shot if she realizes she's made a terrible mistake. Pack it up, store it in a closet for a month to be sure, then send it to her.
posted by paanta at 8:14 AM on July 10, 2009
Best answer: Here's what I suggest: put her stuff in boxes, since it sounds like you need to do that for your own sanity. Maybe keep something of hers around somewhere if a reminder would be good for you, but you can put it in a different place than where she kept it.
Since it sounds like you do want to work things out, make sure you tell her that you're just packing her things up so you won't be so sad that you can't function. Yes, if you're sad, make sure you tell her you're sad.
Then, as others have said, offer to let her come while you're not there - or offer to let her come while you are there, if you want, to help her move the boxes. Maybe working on a physical project together could be a way to spend time together without constantly focusing on "the relationship". Of course, it can be emotionally loaded, so I don't know what will really work for you; it's just an idea.
Packing her things, let alone insisting that she come get them, does feel like you have decided that you want nothing more to do with her. If that's not the case, you'll have to take a compensatory action.
Here's another suggestion: find a counselor that's midway between your two locations, find out when an appointment would be available, then tell her "I would very much like for us to please meet Dr. X at one of these times. When can you be available?" This will show that you're serious, and lets her see a definite "thing to do" instead of a vague "we should do something". It could go a long way to taking the sting out of packing her things.
posted by amtho at 8:29 AM on July 10, 2009
Since it sounds like you do want to work things out, make sure you tell her that you're just packing her things up so you won't be so sad that you can't function. Yes, if you're sad, make sure you tell her you're sad.
Then, as others have said, offer to let her come while you're not there - or offer to let her come while you are there, if you want, to help her move the boxes. Maybe working on a physical project together could be a way to spend time together without constantly focusing on "the relationship". Of course, it can be emotionally loaded, so I don't know what will really work for you; it's just an idea.
Packing her things, let alone insisting that she come get them, does feel like you have decided that you want nothing more to do with her. If that's not the case, you'll have to take a compensatory action.
Here's another suggestion: find a counselor that's midway between your two locations, find out when an appointment would be available, then tell her "I would very much like for us to please meet Dr. X at one of these times. When can you be available?" This will show that you're serious, and lets her see a definite "thing to do" instead of a vague "we should do something". It could go a long way to taking the sting out of packing her things.
posted by amtho at 8:29 AM on July 10, 2009
I'm doing my best to do all of this cordially, but it's very difficult to do that when someone can't or won't respond to anything you're saying. What I've said a few times about all responses being "I don't know," or "okay," I meant that very, very literally.
Paanta, that's what's wrong currently. She has her issues with me, and she's been holding on to a lot of things I've done for a very long time, which is an awful sign. I was hoping that therapy would help that, but she's not willing to commit to it. Therefore...
make sure you tell her that you're just packing her things up so you won't be so sad that you can't function
I would very much like for us to please meet Dr. X at one of these times.
Amtho, I did these things. Looking at pictures of us, all of her things, etc, was/is seriously causing me issues. I told her this in no uncertain terms.
Re: therapist. I talked to the doctor for about 45 minutes before even deciding to go. I asked her to go, with all specifics but the time, and she said "I don't know." When I told her how important to me it was, and that I'd really prefer that she gave me a straight answer, she said "then no." This is exactly what's happened every time I've asked for a clear answer to anything.
Ambivalence and indirectness is a huge, huge sign that she really doesn't want to work on stuff, be it either now or ever. This is why I'm packing her stuff.
posted by onedarkride at 8:52 AM on July 10, 2009
Paanta, that's what's wrong currently. She has her issues with me, and she's been holding on to a lot of things I've done for a very long time, which is an awful sign. I was hoping that therapy would help that, but she's not willing to commit to it. Therefore...
make sure you tell her that you're just packing her things up so you won't be so sad that you can't function
I would very much like for us to please meet Dr. X at one of these times.
Amtho, I did these things. Looking at pictures of us, all of her things, etc, was/is seriously causing me issues. I told her this in no uncertain terms.
Re: therapist. I talked to the doctor for about 45 minutes before even deciding to go. I asked her to go, with all specifics but the time, and she said "I don't know." When I told her how important to me it was, and that I'd really prefer that she gave me a straight answer, she said "then no." This is exactly what's happened every time I've asked for a clear answer to anything.
Ambivalence and indirectness is a huge, huge sign that she really doesn't want to work on stuff, be it either now or ever. This is why I'm packing her stuff.
posted by onedarkride at 8:52 AM on July 10, 2009
My brain registers this:
- she is in pain, most probably, as you initiated the breakup by asking her to leave (from the apartment that you call "our");
- how comes that she was (by whose admission? hers?) neglectful toward you and that prompted you to ask for more space; do you mean only "physical" space involved?
- as a woman, I cannot understand the 'I think it is not healthy at this moment, therefore it is time to end it' type of rationalising - very very few loving people think along these lines;
- you told her all the things that you want and need; were you brave enough to ask her what she wants and needs? (the open-end type of question, not the yes/no, black-and-white).
Now my interpretation. I think you were not as committed to this relationship as she was. It grew big time on her. She still wants a relationship with imaginary you, you who would be the greatest partner on earth if only you committed to the relationship on the same level as she has. Your problem will be solved after you pack those things and expedite them away. Her problem will remain unsolved for months or years, and it has nothing to do with whatsoever material artifacts. That is the reason she is not after her stuff, things and bills, her brain is swelling from trying to make sense of this relationship: its past, and its rupture; and most importantly her own future that so suddenly got to hang in the air. So do have some compassion, she is most likely suffering much more than you do by having to see her things in your apartment.
posted by Jurate at 8:58 AM on July 10, 2009
- she is in pain, most probably, as you initiated the breakup by asking her to leave (from the apartment that you call "our");
- how comes that she was (by whose admission? hers?) neglectful toward you and that prompted you to ask for more space; do you mean only "physical" space involved?
- as a woman, I cannot understand the 'I think it is not healthy at this moment, therefore it is time to end it' type of rationalising - very very few loving people think along these lines;
- you told her all the things that you want and need; were you brave enough to ask her what she wants and needs? (the open-end type of question, not the yes/no, black-and-white).
Now my interpretation. I think you were not as committed to this relationship as she was. It grew big time on her. She still wants a relationship with imaginary you, you who would be the greatest partner on earth if only you committed to the relationship on the same level as she has. Your problem will be solved after you pack those things and expedite them away. Her problem will remain unsolved for months or years, and it has nothing to do with whatsoever material artifacts. That is the reason she is not after her stuff, things and bills, her brain is swelling from trying to make sense of this relationship: its past, and its rupture; and most importantly her own future that so suddenly got to hang in the air. So do have some compassion, she is most likely suffering much more than you do by having to see her things in your apartment.
posted by Jurate at 8:58 AM on July 10, 2009
It seems to me like you have 2 choices - continue with your wishy washiness (her signals tell me shes not interested in the relationship but you are - wasn't this the whole problem to begin with - she neglecting you?) and keep her stuff at your place should things be worked out. You can pack it in boxes so you dont have to look at it, but it should stay at your place in a closet or something
The other choice, that I think is better for you, is to MOVE ON. PAck up her stuff and let her know when to pick it up. If she doesn't show then donate it. Get yourself to therapy and let her be an indecisive 30 year old living in her parents basement. Don't call her unless you want to hear the words "okay", "maybe", or "no".
posted by WeekendJen at 9:07 AM on July 10, 2009
The other choice, that I think is better for you, is to MOVE ON. PAck up her stuff and let her know when to pick it up. If she doesn't show then donate it. Get yourself to therapy and let her be an indecisive 30 year old living in her parents basement. Don't call her unless you want to hear the words "okay", "maybe", or "no".
posted by WeekendJen at 9:07 AM on July 10, 2009
She has her issues with me, and she's been holding on to a lot of things I've done for a very long time, which is an awful sign.
No. This is not a logical conclusion. All it says is that she was accepting of those things earlier. But when something drastic happened (that probably let her incredibly down, it could be your action or inaction, it could be a mix of things work/life, or it could be a "He's Just Not That Into You" seen at a cinema) - all those "things you had done" suddenly turned into huge red flags that she had chosen to disregard earlier. So no, not an awful sign. Exactly these are the object of therapy.
Could it be she would have liked to arrange with a therapist of her choice? (Broader question: how much of her life actually was on her terms pre-breakup? Could her indecisiveness be a symptom of learned helplesness, whatever the background events of her life might have caused that?)
Where are your common friends in this? Mediation by smart friends might be more effective than therapy when there are trust issues involved. Reach out to her through your friends.
posted by Jurate at 9:16 AM on July 10, 2009
No. This is not a logical conclusion. All it says is that she was accepting of those things earlier. But when something drastic happened (that probably let her incredibly down, it could be your action or inaction, it could be a mix of things work/life, or it could be a "He's Just Not That Into You" seen at a cinema) - all those "things you had done" suddenly turned into huge red flags that she had chosen to disregard earlier. So no, not an awful sign. Exactly these are the object of therapy.
Could it be she would have liked to arrange with a therapist of her choice? (Broader question: how much of her life actually was on her terms pre-breakup? Could her indecisiveness be a symptom of learned helplesness, whatever the background events of her life might have caused that?)
Where are your common friends in this? Mediation by smart friends might be more effective than therapy when there are trust issues involved. Reach out to her through your friends.
posted by Jurate at 9:16 AM on July 10, 2009
Sounds like she's taking the limp-wristed, wimpy-ass way of getting out.
Ship her her stuff and be firm about it.
posted by kldickson at 9:33 AM on July 10, 2009
Ship her her stuff and be firm about it.
posted by kldickson at 9:33 AM on July 10, 2009
letssseeee....she "neglected you" is that manspeak for justification to have "gone elsewhere"?
If my guess is accurate (some sort of betrayal/infidelity on your part as she thought she was in a monogamous relationship) it would explain why she says things like "I can't talk to you right now..etc". She is not keen on your eleventh hour last ditch counseling ideas. That's how wronged people act--you know, wronged. If you have conveniently left this part out of your question then advice is not going to be as thorough as it could be.
I sense that you *wish* she could forgive you and you *hope* that this issue of leaving her things behind is possible. She seems very hacked off to me and leaving her things behind may or may not be "clues"...Imagine if the tables were turned. Do you think it might take you awhile to process what had happened? She's angry and digesting what happened.
I think you know that it is unlikely that she is going to forgive you. If you broke the rules of your relationship then you are the one who should probably be more accommodating. Ask her what she wants to do next. You are in a tough spot because people who feel betrayed have a tendency to hold onto the betrayal for a long time. Few couples survive cheating ...if they had agreed to be exclusive to one another.
I think you should go to counseling on your own. I don't mean that in any snarky way. You seem to think this should all be solved right now and I have the distinct impression that you want to cast yourself as the victim. Why?
posted by naplesyellow at 9:42 AM on July 10, 2009
If my guess is accurate (some sort of betrayal/infidelity on your part as she thought she was in a monogamous relationship) it would explain why she says things like "I can't talk to you right now..etc". She is not keen on your eleventh hour last ditch counseling ideas. That's how wronged people act--you know, wronged. If you have conveniently left this part out of your question then advice is not going to be as thorough as it could be.
I sense that you *wish* she could forgive you and you *hope* that this issue of leaving her things behind is possible. She seems very hacked off to me and leaving her things behind may or may not be "clues"...Imagine if the tables were turned. Do you think it might take you awhile to process what had happened? She's angry and digesting what happened.
I think you know that it is unlikely that she is going to forgive you. If you broke the rules of your relationship then you are the one who should probably be more accommodating. Ask her what she wants to do next. You are in a tough spot because people who feel betrayed have a tendency to hold onto the betrayal for a long time. Few couples survive cheating ...if they had agreed to be exclusive to one another.
I think you should go to counseling on your own. I don't mean that in any snarky way. You seem to think this should all be solved right now and I have the distinct impression that you want to cast yourself as the victim. Why?
posted by naplesyellow at 9:42 AM on July 10, 2009
Jurate, that's a good point that I hadn't thought of, regarding the illogical conclusion. Thanks for that.
Our mutual friends are staying out of it. I asked her to talk to my best friend, but she showed no trust in her, so I backed off of that idea. Her therapist gave me the contacts, and I talked to all of them.
naplesyellow, I never cheated, never lied, and have been nothing other than faithful, honest, and caring. I did my best to provide her with everything I could. Yes, sometimes I sucked as a boyfriend, but a lot of the time I didn't. Then there's the flowers, and that was a big issue. She wanted flowers, and I almost never got them.
Neglecting me refers to her a lot of other things, like her not making time for me, but would for her friends. Coming home four hours late and lying about how much you've had to drink is a huge bad sign. Yes, it's confirmed, she admitted it much later. Stuff like that.
Yes, the relationship hasn't been healthy in a long time. I know this.
This isn't "manspeak" for anything, and your guess is highly inaccurate. She apologized, and it took me a while (as in, a week) to forgive her, but I did. Unfortunately, the time I needed to get over it obviously caused a lot of damage elsewhere. It wasn't physical distance I needed during that time, but a chance to not get into fights over every little thing.
I'm not trying to play the part of the victim here, and I have no idea where you got any of the ideas you're expressing. Having said that, I am considering counseling, and I didn't take that as a catty thing to say at all.
posted by onedarkride at 10:14 AM on July 10, 2009
Our mutual friends are staying out of it. I asked her to talk to my best friend, but she showed no trust in her, so I backed off of that idea. Her therapist gave me the contacts, and I talked to all of them.
naplesyellow, I never cheated, never lied, and have been nothing other than faithful, honest, and caring. I did my best to provide her with everything I could. Yes, sometimes I sucked as a boyfriend, but a lot of the time I didn't. Then there's the flowers, and that was a big issue. She wanted flowers, and I almost never got them.
Neglecting me refers to her a lot of other things, like her not making time for me, but would for her friends. Coming home four hours late and lying about how much you've had to drink is a huge bad sign. Yes, it's confirmed, she admitted it much later. Stuff like that.
Yes, the relationship hasn't been healthy in a long time. I know this.
This isn't "manspeak" for anything, and your guess is highly inaccurate. She apologized, and it took me a while (as in, a week) to forgive her, but I did. Unfortunately, the time I needed to get over it obviously caused a lot of damage elsewhere. It wasn't physical distance I needed during that time, but a chance to not get into fights over every little thing.
I'm not trying to play the part of the victim here, and I have no idea where you got any of the ideas you're expressing. Having said that, I am considering counseling, and I didn't take that as a catty thing to say at all.
posted by onedarkride at 10:14 AM on July 10, 2009
Best answer: 3.5 year relationship. 1 month of serious relationship turmoil including hints by you that things can be worked out. And in the span of a week, you want her stuff out because it's bothering you. You still sound unsure if the relationship can or will be saved. If you're in that frame of mind then what's the rush of getting all her stuff out, out, out?
Let me tell you, boxing up her stuff and shipping it to her does finalize the relationship. There's no going back on that. Don't be a bigger dick by sending her her stuff and then saying, "maybe we can get back together...?"
Here's an idea, since the wounds on both of you are still so fresh, maybe take a little vacation. Go visit a friend or your family in another city -- take a long weekend and try to just get out of your own head a little bit. Don't call your ex, give her a break. Don't worry about the stuff, leave it be for now. Think about what you want to have happen and then give that your all. If you want the relationship ended, do as many have said above and end it gently and kindly. If you want the relationship saved then you have to suck it up and say that and act on it.
But, really, take a break. I think it sounds like it's over. She moved out and got a job somewhere else (far away?) and you've packed her stuff. All this other conversation is just you beating your head against a wall and also demanding something that you're not going to get: clear-cut finality. Honestly, if it takes six months to untangle a 3.5 year relationship, that would not surprise me. You just can't erase everything in a day (or even a week or a month). It sucks when you've been burned but these things do take a little time.
posted by amanda at 10:17 AM on July 10, 2009
Let me tell you, boxing up her stuff and shipping it to her does finalize the relationship. There's no going back on that. Don't be a bigger dick by sending her her stuff and then saying, "maybe we can get back together...?"
Here's an idea, since the wounds on both of you are still so fresh, maybe take a little vacation. Go visit a friend or your family in another city -- take a long weekend and try to just get out of your own head a little bit. Don't call your ex, give her a break. Don't worry about the stuff, leave it be for now. Think about what you want to have happen and then give that your all. If you want the relationship ended, do as many have said above and end it gently and kindly. If you want the relationship saved then you have to suck it up and say that and act on it.
But, really, take a break. I think it sounds like it's over. She moved out and got a job somewhere else (far away?) and you've packed her stuff. All this other conversation is just you beating your head against a wall and also demanding something that you're not going to get: clear-cut finality. Honestly, if it takes six months to untangle a 3.5 year relationship, that would not surprise me. You just can't erase everything in a day (or even a week or a month). It sucks when you've been burned but these things do take a little time.
posted by amanda at 10:17 AM on July 10, 2009
Well, onedarkride, what about my suggestion that you move out instead of her? To be honest, from the outside it seems pretty cold that you would have broken up with her and then expected that she would move out. Obviously every relationship is different, but SOP seems to be that, in the absence of severely bad behavior by the dumped (ie, abuse, criminal behavior, serious addiction), it's the dumper that moves out. You seem to see yourself as the wronged party, but you are the person who ended (or is trying to end) the relationship.
And from a purely practical standpoint, it seems that if you want decisive action that will result in the two of you not living together, the most effective way is for you to move out. That way you don't have to use all this strategizing to get her to move out, you can just make it happen yourself. Pack up your belongings and sleep on a friend's couch till you find something else.
posted by lunasol at 10:19 AM on July 10, 2009
And from a purely practical standpoint, it seems that if you want decisive action that will result in the two of you not living together, the most effective way is for you to move out. That way you don't have to use all this strategizing to get her to move out, you can just make it happen yourself. Pack up your belongings and sleep on a friend's couch till you find something else.
posted by lunasol at 10:19 AM on July 10, 2009
The actual packing up of stuff (to me) was the most painful part of a break up. I could see good reasons for avoiding it like she doesn't want to be in the apartment with you right now or packing up the stuff represents the last nail in the coffin. I think the easiest thing is to pack up the stuff for her and send it to her parents if you can.
posted by bananafish at 10:41 AM on July 10, 2009
posted by bananafish at 10:41 AM on July 10, 2009
amanda: Not far away, but new job? check. I'm boxing it up, but I'll leave it there for now. You're right about the head-beating.
lunasol: She can't afford rent by herself. I'm not trying to end this, though, if I haven't made that clear already. I'm trying to figure out what's right, and looking at her stuff every day isn't right. Giving her space to find out what she wants to do, and taking my own space for the same reason is probably for the best. Defining "space" seems to be problematic. Aside from that, I obviously have no idea what I'm doing.
To those of you who thought I didn't treat her right, or cheated on her, or whatever else, I can sum up my feelings on that very easily: I should have got her flowers more often, and I should have gone to her parents with her more. I should have let her hug me while cutting vegetables and risk losing a finger.
Yes, I'm confused about her belongings being here, but I got a lot of good info from a lot of you, and thanks for that. She's a very sentimental person, and the idea of leaving those things behind seems very unlike anything she'd do. This is why I posted this, and I have a slightly better idea of why now. That's all I could hope for.
Someone above asked if I asked her what she needed. I didn't ask, and I didn't have to. She told me. She gave me a list, and after looking at the list, I realized that while I was giving her everything on the list, I could do a better job. Unfortunately, this happened after things got effed.
So, here's what I'm going to do anyway, based on all of the suggestions you've given:
1. Finish packing stuff and let it rest for a while. Her parents don't live that far from here, and whenever she decides she needs them, she can contact me. If it goes on too long, I'll drop it off.
I will not put her shit on the curb as some people have suggested, or drop it off at goodwill, and I strongly feel that anyone who would suggest that is a complete dick. Seriously, guys. Not cool, under any circumstances whatsoever. That's someones accumulated material life in those boxes.
2. Enjoy my weekend, which will be full of awesome friends coming to visit, riding our bikes to the park for happy-fun beer time, and hitching a ride with a friend whose going to the beach to go burn my skin off.
3. Accept that things are fucked and stop worrying about it. She's probably too chickenshit to end things if that's what she wants, and if not, she's too confused about everything to make any choices anyway. Things might be okay some day, but that day may be 50 years from now, and I'm okay with that. Sucks, but hey, such is life.
4. Seriously consider talking to someone who deals with this for a living. I have a few extremely awesome friends that have been a great help, but they're not headspace doctors.
Thanks for everything, guys. You've all been, and will likely continue to be awesome, awesome people.
Except for you, naplesyellow. I think you're a man-hater.
posted by onedarkride at 11:00 AM on July 10, 2009
lunasol: She can't afford rent by herself. I'm not trying to end this, though, if I haven't made that clear already. I'm trying to figure out what's right, and looking at her stuff every day isn't right. Giving her space to find out what she wants to do, and taking my own space for the same reason is probably for the best. Defining "space" seems to be problematic. Aside from that, I obviously have no idea what I'm doing.
To those of you who thought I didn't treat her right, or cheated on her, or whatever else, I can sum up my feelings on that very easily: I should have got her flowers more often, and I should have gone to her parents with her more. I should have let her hug me while cutting vegetables and risk losing a finger.
Yes, I'm confused about her belongings being here, but I got a lot of good info from a lot of you, and thanks for that. She's a very sentimental person, and the idea of leaving those things behind seems very unlike anything she'd do. This is why I posted this, and I have a slightly better idea of why now. That's all I could hope for.
Someone above asked if I asked her what she needed. I didn't ask, and I didn't have to. She told me. She gave me a list, and after looking at the list, I realized that while I was giving her everything on the list, I could do a better job. Unfortunately, this happened after things got effed.
So, here's what I'm going to do anyway, based on all of the suggestions you've given:
1. Finish packing stuff and let it rest for a while. Her parents don't live that far from here, and whenever she decides she needs them, she can contact me. If it goes on too long, I'll drop it off.
I will not put her shit on the curb as some people have suggested, or drop it off at goodwill, and I strongly feel that anyone who would suggest that is a complete dick. Seriously, guys. Not cool, under any circumstances whatsoever. That's someones accumulated material life in those boxes.
2. Enjoy my weekend, which will be full of awesome friends coming to visit, riding our bikes to the park for happy-fun beer time, and hitching a ride with a friend whose going to the beach to go burn my skin off.
3. Accept that things are fucked and stop worrying about it. She's probably too chickenshit to end things if that's what she wants, and if not, she's too confused about everything to make any choices anyway. Things might be okay some day, but that day may be 50 years from now, and I'm okay with that. Sucks, but hey, such is life.
4. Seriously consider talking to someone who deals with this for a living. I have a few extremely awesome friends that have been a great help, but they're not headspace doctors.
Thanks for everything, guys. You've all been, and will likely continue to be awesome, awesome people.
Except for you, naplesyellow. I think you're a man-hater.
posted by onedarkride at 11:00 AM on July 10, 2009
(Please understand that I'm kidding)
posted by onedarkride at 11:05 AM on July 10, 2009
posted by onedarkride at 11:05 AM on July 10, 2009
She's probably too chickenshit to end things if that's what she wants
You forgot to add: Stop being angry and saying mean things. We can all sense you're hurt, but the word choices you're using suggest that you're being, for lack of a better word, passive aggressive towards her and she can probably sense it. You'll be better off if you start forgiving her and understanding that people screw up and she probably never meant to hurt you.
posted by anniecat at 11:15 AM on July 10, 2009
You forgot to add: Stop being angry and saying mean things. We can all sense you're hurt, but the word choices you're using suggest that you're being, for lack of a better word, passive aggressive towards her and she can probably sense it. You'll be better off if you start forgiving her and understanding that people screw up and she probably never meant to hurt you.
posted by anniecat at 11:15 AM on July 10, 2009
Why would they leave bills in their name?
Well, you can usually switch the utility bills to your name by calling the company and telling them to put the electric/gas/whatever in your name. This seems like it would be more practical than her calling up to say she's moved and to shut off the electricity.
posted by yohko at 11:17 AM on July 10, 2009
Well, you can usually switch the utility bills to your name by calling the company and telling them to put the electric/gas/whatever in your name. This seems like it would be more practical than her calling up to say she's moved and to shut off the electricity.
posted by yohko at 11:17 AM on July 10, 2009
It's not clear to me that you asked her to move her stuff out, or if you just decided it has to go.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:37 AM on July 10, 2009
posted by oneirodynia at 11:37 AM on July 10, 2009
oneirodynia, It started out with her saying she was coming back. Then it moved to "eventually," then "maybe." At the "maybe" point, I asked her. I let it go for a week or two. Then I asked her if she wanted me to do it. I cannot reiterate this enough, the answers I constantly got were "I don't know" and "okay" to everything I've said for the past week. Oh wait, there was also "do what you think is right."
anniecat: Yeah, my wording there was crass, but it wasn't meant to be. I have a bit of a pottymouth. Yeah, I'm hurt, it's very true. Having said that, I hold no ill will towards her, and I deeply, truly mean that. I forgave her for everything she did to me, including taking me for granted and lying to me. I know she's confused and messed up. Right now, I'm extremely worried about her. Like, to the point to where I've considered reaching out to her family and friends of hers to ask that they keep an eye on her. I did text her best friend to ask her to make sure she's okay, but I feel like doing anything else would be overstepping severely, and that's something I absolutely don't want to do.
Re: Bills, taken care of.
posted by onedarkride at 11:52 AM on July 10, 2009
anniecat: Yeah, my wording there was crass, but it wasn't meant to be. I have a bit of a pottymouth. Yeah, I'm hurt, it's very true. Having said that, I hold no ill will towards her, and I deeply, truly mean that. I forgave her for everything she did to me, including taking me for granted and lying to me. I know she's confused and messed up. Right now, I'm extremely worried about her. Like, to the point to where I've considered reaching out to her family and friends of hers to ask that they keep an eye on her. I did text her best friend to ask her to make sure she's okay, but I feel like doing anything else would be overstepping severely, and that's something I absolutely don't want to do.
Re: Bills, taken care of.
posted by onedarkride at 11:52 AM on July 10, 2009
In that case, I would probably pack it up, move it to a storage facility, tell her you have paid for one month or whatever, and mail her the keys. That way if she is feeling really heartbroken about seeing your old place and moving out of it, she doesn't have to. The stuff is out of your space, and is no longer your problem.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:53 PM on July 10, 2009
posted by oneirodynia at 12:53 PM on July 10, 2009
Oh, and I would let her know this is what you are going to do, before you do it.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:56 PM on July 10, 2009
posted by oneirodynia at 12:56 PM on July 10, 2009
It looks like you guys want to work things out. Pack up her stuff and put it in a spare room. If you don't have a spare room, put all that stuff in the room you use the least often, so you don't have to encounter it every second of the day.
She sounds hurt. You sound hurt. Call her up and suggest not talking for awhile. Say, a month or so. That way you both have a chance to reset your batteries and clear your thoughts, figure out what you both really want out of this. All this, "okay," and, "I don't know," and, "I can't talk right now," perhaps predictably points to her not really knowing what she wants from you at this time. She needs some space and so do you. At the end of the month of no contact, meet her somewhere neutral (like a coffee shop or something) and try to talk it out one more time. Maybe then you'll both want to get back together, maybe then you'll both want to just end things permanently. Be patient and be kind. Stop being demanding.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 2:54 PM on July 10, 2009
She sounds hurt. You sound hurt. Call her up and suggest not talking for awhile. Say, a month or so. That way you both have a chance to reset your batteries and clear your thoughts, figure out what you both really want out of this. All this, "okay," and, "I don't know," and, "I can't talk right now," perhaps predictably points to her not really knowing what she wants from you at this time. She needs some space and so do you. At the end of the month of no contact, meet her somewhere neutral (like a coffee shop or something) and try to talk it out one more time. Maybe then you'll both want to get back together, maybe then you'll both want to just end things permanently. Be patient and be kind. Stop being demanding.
posted by SkylitDrawl at 2:54 PM on July 10, 2009
to me it sounds like you're pressuring her a lot in the conversations you have. When put under pressure by someone who's angry (and it really sounds like you are to me), some people just shut down and don't think clearly anymore because of being flooded by feelings of stress. The way you describe your conversations, it sounds more like interrogation and rapid-fire multiple choice test questions, pushing for immediate answers to me. I might be wrong, but that's the vibe I get from this thread. This would be counterproductive at best.
posted by meijusa at 2:57 PM on July 10, 2009
posted by meijusa at 2:57 PM on July 10, 2009
I do apologize, onedark. I did jump to a conclusion--it is just that people often break off relationships due to lack of commitment...and "straying". I was really wrong to leap to that, however.
If the situation were a stove everything would be boiling on a front burner. In time you can move it to the back burner and it won't be cooking on high. Some distractions (your idea of having a good weekend with friends) is a good idea right now for you.
I didn't mean to come across as man-hating. I like men. Honest. The world would be a very dull place without them.
posted by naplesyellow at 11:00 PM on July 10, 2009
If the situation were a stove everything would be boiling on a front burner. In time you can move it to the back burner and it won't be cooking on high. Some distractions (your idea of having a good weekend with friends) is a good idea right now for you.
I didn't mean to come across as man-hating. I like men. Honest. The world would be a very dull place without them.
posted by naplesyellow at 11:00 PM on July 10, 2009
(post-spontaneous houseparty drunkfilter)
naplesyellow: Nah, it's all cool. I don't really think you're a man-hater. I was committed, and as I said, I didn't do everything I could to guarantee that everything would work out during the relationshio, but that doesn't really matter much now. Not in this context, anyway. What matters is that I tried to fix things as best I could. This just isn't the time, nor will it probably ever be. Shit happens, it sucks, and now I get to deal with it in my own way.
More stuff is in boxes, and it's at the point where it's mostly pictures of us, her family, and other sentimental things. AKA the hard part. Somehow, a bunch of my friends showed up and drank beer with me while I did some of this, talked to me about stuff, and it was honestly pretty awesome. It's severely cool when someone shows up WITH THEIR DATE FOR THE EVENING and will actually talk about the shit on your mind. I owe that specific girl another beer among the many already owed. Dude who rode his bike to Philly from Brooklyn being here was a great help in all of this as well.
mmw, I never responded to what you said, but your post is the one that took me the longest to process, and I can't tell the difference. I don't know what else to say to that.
I'll probably not post to this thread until something changes one way or another, but seriously thanks everyone.
posted by onedarkride at 11:19 PM on July 10, 2009
naplesyellow: Nah, it's all cool. I don't really think you're a man-hater. I was committed, and as I said, I didn't do everything I could to guarantee that everything would work out during the relationshio, but that doesn't really matter much now. Not in this context, anyway. What matters is that I tried to fix things as best I could. This just isn't the time, nor will it probably ever be. Shit happens, it sucks, and now I get to deal with it in my own way.
More stuff is in boxes, and it's at the point where it's mostly pictures of us, her family, and other sentimental things. AKA the hard part. Somehow, a bunch of my friends showed up and drank beer with me while I did some of this, talked to me about stuff, and it was honestly pretty awesome. It's severely cool when someone shows up WITH THEIR DATE FOR THE EVENING and will actually talk about the shit on your mind. I owe that specific girl another beer among the many already owed. Dude who rode his bike to Philly from Brooklyn being here was a great help in all of this as well.
mmw, I never responded to what you said, but your post is the one that took me the longest to process, and I can't tell the difference. I don't know what else to say to that.
I'll probably not post to this thread until something changes one way or another, but seriously thanks everyone.
posted by onedarkride at 11:19 PM on July 10, 2009
Onedarkride, you strike me as clueless, honestly. I am thankful for getting a chance to read your story, it would be a good lesson, had it been in a magazine or a TV show (not to trivialize it). I wish you to 'deepen up' in the future. It seems to me that it was not about bringing flowers, visiting parents, or checking other items off a wishlist - so do not regret about those, it was about attitude and acting husband-like, consistently. Her 'neglectful' behavior was a wacky attempt to reconfirm herself as a single person, dating co-residentially, because she was not getting more.
You say it does not matter much now, but commitment (even to yourself) and trust-building do matter all the time as part of your personality. I will go now and ponder about all the stories of my friends where the window of opportunity to save relationships closed with no genuine, heroic, crazy, severely overstepping action taken. And I sat and ate dinner, and drank wine and beer, and was too chicken to smack them and get them into action.
posted by Jurate at 1:38 AM on July 11, 2009
You say it does not matter much now, but commitment (even to yourself) and trust-building do matter all the time as part of your personality. I will go now and ponder about all the stories of my friends where the window of opportunity to save relationships closed with no genuine, heroic, crazy, severely overstepping action taken. And I sat and ate dinner, and drank wine and beer, and was too chicken to smack them and get them into action.
posted by Jurate at 1:38 AM on July 11, 2009
Deepen up, eh? Wow. Okay.
You're assuming a lot of things, like that I didn't support her decision to go back to school, support her both financially and emotionally during the transition, and reassure her that it's the right thing to do. You're assuming I didn't rearrange my entire life for her, and that I didn't bend over backwards to help make her life, and subsequently, OUR life better. You're assuming I didn't work with her through emotional problems she was having, and that I didn't do everything I could to make her life easier for her, and again, us. You're assuming that I didn't treat her right and do everything I could to show her that I trust and love her. I'm not sure why, but knock it off please. I put off a lot of dreams and goals that I wanted for myself, because our relationship was more important to me than everything I gave up, and those were ME things, not US things.
Her taking me for granted was, by her own words, because she assumed that I would roll over and take anything she said and did because I love her, and that she was "taking all of my emotions and needs for granted." She said that she forgot to talk to me about choices that impacted us both, to remember to work on things, like trust building, and spending time together just being us. Now, having you put those things on me? Either I'm not doing a good job of explaining things, or you're assuming that I have no concept of emotional bonding because I stand up to urinate, and that I'm trying to portray myself as the victim.
I've spent a lot of time listening to her talk about her feelings and talking about my own before the breakup. She's 30, going back to college as a freshman, and is feeling a bit lost. She's trying to figure out what to do with the rest of her life, and I did everything I could to help her through that in every way I could.
So what's the lesson here again? When someone neglects you, it's probably your fault, no matter what the person says? That when things start to get dicey, the window of opportunity to fix it is so small that you're better off walking away, and everything you do is too late, and anything you do is overstepping and severely dramatic? I'm sorry, but having someone say that they've been neglecting your emotional needs is a hard thing to deal with, and maybe I could have dealt with it better, but please stop assuming I'm a clueless piece of shit for it.
When someone says "flowers are important to me. Not often, but sometimes," and you don't do that, yes, that's a place where you fucked up. There is a very short list of things like that, things I should have done, but you call them trivial. Sometimes, a handful of little things can cause large problems.
When I say "it doesn't matter," I mean, quite literally, "there is nothing more I feel I can do regarding this relationship, other than give her space and take my own." Ever opened up your heart to someone, completely and entirely, and have them respond with "I don't know what to say" and never get a response? I haven't given up on her as a person, and I still love her and believe in her, but that doesn't mean things will work out.
Also, adding things like "not to trivialize it" with everything else you said is fairly strange, as you trivialized pretty much everything. If you have questions about things, I'll be more than happy to answer them, but assuming that I'm clueless is a fairly shitty thing to do.
Holy shit, that was long-winded. Sorry.
posted by onedarkride at 8:25 AM on July 11, 2009
You're assuming a lot of things, like that I didn't support her decision to go back to school, support her both financially and emotionally during the transition, and reassure her that it's the right thing to do. You're assuming I didn't rearrange my entire life for her, and that I didn't bend over backwards to help make her life, and subsequently, OUR life better. You're assuming I didn't work with her through emotional problems she was having, and that I didn't do everything I could to make her life easier for her, and again, us. You're assuming that I didn't treat her right and do everything I could to show her that I trust and love her. I'm not sure why, but knock it off please. I put off a lot of dreams and goals that I wanted for myself, because our relationship was more important to me than everything I gave up, and those were ME things, not US things.
Her taking me for granted was, by her own words, because she assumed that I would roll over and take anything she said and did because I love her, and that she was "taking all of my emotions and needs for granted." She said that she forgot to talk to me about choices that impacted us both, to remember to work on things, like trust building, and spending time together just being us. Now, having you put those things on me? Either I'm not doing a good job of explaining things, or you're assuming that I have no concept of emotional bonding because I stand up to urinate, and that I'm trying to portray myself as the victim.
I've spent a lot of time listening to her talk about her feelings and talking about my own before the breakup. She's 30, going back to college as a freshman, and is feeling a bit lost. She's trying to figure out what to do with the rest of her life, and I did everything I could to help her through that in every way I could.
So what's the lesson here again? When someone neglects you, it's probably your fault, no matter what the person says? That when things start to get dicey, the window of opportunity to fix it is so small that you're better off walking away, and everything you do is too late, and anything you do is overstepping and severely dramatic? I'm sorry, but having someone say that they've been neglecting your emotional needs is a hard thing to deal with, and maybe I could have dealt with it better, but please stop assuming I'm a clueless piece of shit for it.
When someone says "flowers are important to me. Not often, but sometimes," and you don't do that, yes, that's a place where you fucked up. There is a very short list of things like that, things I should have done, but you call them trivial. Sometimes, a handful of little things can cause large problems.
When I say "it doesn't matter," I mean, quite literally, "there is nothing more I feel I can do regarding this relationship, other than give her space and take my own." Ever opened up your heart to someone, completely and entirely, and have them respond with "I don't know what to say" and never get a response? I haven't given up on her as a person, and I still love her and believe in her, but that doesn't mean things will work out.
Also, adding things like "not to trivialize it" with everything else you said is fairly strange, as you trivialized pretty much everything. If you have questions about things, I'll be more than happy to answer them, but assuming that I'm clueless is a fairly shitty thing to do.
Holy shit, that was long-winded. Sorry.
posted by onedarkride at 8:25 AM on July 11, 2009
mmw, I never responded to what you said, but your post is the one that took me the longest to process, and I can't tell the difference. I don't know what else to say to that.
Hey, you're not alone. I don't think most of us can, especially when we're in the middle of it.
posted by mmw at 10:36 AM on July 11, 2009
Hey, you're not alone. I don't think most of us can, especially when we're in the middle of it.
posted by mmw at 10:36 AM on July 11, 2009
Honestly, I think she's being incredibly unfair. Fixing a relationship is a job for two people. Not just the one, and the other one being like "whatever." From all you've said, it sounds like the relationship just ended, as relationships can. It's not your fault, it's not her fault, it just... is. But she's not helping you now. I see absolutely no issue with packing up her stuff. It's not fair for her to leave it around for you to feel horrible about - regardless of who broke up with who. I also see nothing wrong with asking her to come get her stuff. Cause, that's what it is now, her stuff. And she needs to come get it. Don't be there when she does, I don't think that will be a good experience for anyone.
Please don't think you're being a dick. It really doesn't sound like it to me.
posted by dithmer at 3:07 PM on July 11, 2009
Please don't think you're being a dick. It really doesn't sound like it to me.
posted by dithmer at 3:07 PM on July 11, 2009
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posted by anniecat at 6:14 AM on July 10, 2009