Moving to London

December 8, 2004 12:33 PM

LondonFilter: Thinking about moving to London. More inside.

I'm already in the UK, so I don't need to worry about visas or anything like that. What I'm looking for is more practical information about living in London. Everything I've found so far seems too touristy and nothing really gives a good overview of various areas. At the moment I have no preference about where I want to live/work, but friends living in and around London have very conflicting opinions so it's all a bit confusing. Opinions, recommendations, links, etc. would be great.

posted by eatcherry to travel & transportation (29 comments total)

This book is very good.
posted by Vidiot at 1:06 PM on December 8, 2004

One piece of advice I've given people moving to London in the past is to pick, where possible, the place you live to be within an easy journey of your work place.

You can check the journey times on public transport at the Transport for London site if you have any areas you're considering.

As for specific areas, my personal preferance is for East/South over West/North... but I can't justify it apart from my bias.
posted by selton at 1:07 PM on December 8, 2004

(I only lived there for four months, but I was in Earl's Court, near Nevern Square.)

Do you know where you'll be working?
posted by Vidiot at 1:07 PM on December 8, 2004

No, I have no idea where I'll be working - at this point it is just dreaming and planning as I can't move for at least a year. Though I am planning a week-long trip in March to have a wander around, hang out with friends and see how I like the place. But considering I've lived in a very small town my whole life, and never lived alone or really been in any way independent, it seems like a good idea to be thinking about these things as early as possible.
posted by eatcherry at 1:14 PM on December 8, 2004

I'm not expert - but a frequent visitor. Things seem to get much cheaper if you get just a bit further out and away from the trendy neighbourhoods like Notting Hill and south of the River. I'm currently fond of Shepherd's Bush. You're only 3 tube stops or so away from most things, still close enough in that the occasional cab is affordable, and an interesting ethnically-diverse middle-class area. However, it's still considered by some to be an "outlying area", and hasn't really become expensive yet.
Again, I'm not a Londoner, but that's my impression from my last few trips.
posted by sixdifferentways at 1:29 PM on December 8, 2004

Rent in Central London is uber-expensive, as I'm sure you're aware, so unless you're loaded or planning to house-share, looking at the outer zones might be a better bet. I don't know about North London, only South, as I lived in Borough for six months in halls - not a bad area and close to Borough Market (for all your foody needs) and the South Bank. Also close to Elephant & Castle/Old Kent Road/Lewisham which are prob best avoided. I find the best judge is to go there late at night and see if you feel safe. (E&C failed that one with big honking bells)

If you can afford it, Greenwich and Blackheath are lovely areas - lots of markets, nice little shops and Greenwich Park is beautiful. I have designs on a big house on Shooters' Hill Road but unfortunately no money. Gah.

Camden might be an option - again, markets, nightlife, good shops, lots of nice little music venues, but can be a bit rough in some parts.

And you will get lost. I've studied in Central London for three years, worked in the West End for two, and while you can't lose me in Covent Garden or Soho, I'm hopeless much further north or west.
posted by corvine at 1:48 PM on December 8, 2004

A general tip; anywhere not immediately served by tube lines is likely to be cheaper. I've lived in Stamford Hill, Clapton and Stoke Newington; places no-one's ever heard of, but all less than 40 minutes from the West End.
posted by punilux at 1:58 PM on December 8, 2004

Where in the UK are you at the moment?
posted by skylar at 2:36 PM on December 8, 2004

I'm near Belfast (Northern Ireland).
posted by eatcherry at 2:38 PM on December 8, 2004

Pretty broad question you've got there. Well here's a few thoughts...

To give you some idea of rents you might want to have a look at Find A Property or Rightmove. I used to rent in a fairly cheap part of North London which cost about £650 per month for a one bedroom flat. I understand studio flats don't come much cheaper than £90 per week (but other peoples experience has shown that it can be a false economy as living in such a small space leads you to go out more often).

Travel is so important in London. When finding a place to live it can be important to know what zone it's in as this will affect the cost of your travel (see the TFL link above for more info)

If you don't know where you might work then poll your friends with experience in London for good places to live and be sure to consult people who know about the local area where you plan to move to. Remember - a distance of half a mile can make a huge difference in London. I used to live in Willesden, half a mile from the nicer part, but half a mile away from Harlesden - which, while very cheap, has an appaling reputation for violence (not entirely justified but still...).

Many people try flat shares but most folk finding sharing with strangers intensely uncomfortable no matter how desperate they think they are - it's usually something that's only tried once, maybe twice in cases of extreme poverty!

This is always good advice: while you may need to save up money for your deposit it's also a very good idea to have a rainy day fund - the bigger the better. It's nice to know that when the shit hits the fan you're at least well prepared. If you can't do that then at least make sure you've got a credit card for emergencies.
posted by dodgygeezer at 2:45 PM on December 8, 2004

I have no problem living in a small space - would prefer it in fact. A large space would freak me out. I'd be OK with sharing too, though obviously that would depend on the person(s) I was sharing with.

I think the sheer size of London is what will be most difficult for me. Living in a city where absolutely everything is within walking distance and traffic is not overwhelming, it's hard to imagine that not being the case. It doesn't help that I can barely find my way out of my own house as it is. Oh well. I guess I'll get used to it eventually.
posted by eatcherry at 2:57 PM on December 8, 2004

My parents spent a year in Lewisham while my dad was teaching at Goldsmith's College. The place didn't have a great reputation, but they were honestly in a really nice neighborhood with many parks & shops close by and were paying quite a bit less than they would have in most other areas.

I spent a month there visiting them and I honestly felt safer in Lewisham, even late at night, than I do in most places in Boston, Chicago, or New York. I suppose it's all what you're used to though.
posted by spaghetti at 4:07 PM on December 8, 2004

I spent 2 years in London. We lived in Highbury and I loved it, loads of cafes, shops and pubs and close enough in to central London that travelling into E1 or the West End to go out wasn't a problem. On the down side rent tends to be pricey, the green spaces don't really compare with other parts of London and if you're not an Arsenal fan it could be a bit wearing.

I found that London could be a tough place to live. For us the trade off between paying a bit more rent to live somewhere we liked was worth it. Sharing a 2 bedroom flat in Zone 4 with 25 other aussies would have made me a very miserable girl.

I agree that you need to be within reasonable distance to your work. Public transport is pretty good, but trust me, 2 hours on the tube every day is very hard to take.

I could bore on about this for ages. Email is in my profile if you need more.
posted by arha at 5:02 PM on December 8, 2004

If you're not planning to move for a while, you've got the advantage of being able to plan well. The first thing I'd say is that, unless the whole point of moving is that you want to live on your own, use that time to find yourself at least one or two other trustworthy, pleasant people to make those plans with. That's what I did, and I'm so glad I did it.

Firstly, moving to London can get overwhelming. Not necessarily, but I know a lot of perfectly sound, solid people - from medium sized cities themselves - who've freaked out a little in their first few months here. Having several of you together really, really helps. Secondly, while finding accommodation is relatively easy, it does require a lot of legwork, time set aside, and quick reactions. Having several people on the case makes things infinitely easier. Thirdly, the cost of single (or even double) flats are disproportionately higher than 3-bed+ places.

If you don't know where you'll be working, plan ahead on which areas to focus on. There's still plenty of places within tube zones 2 and 3 that are relatively cheap, with good transport, and pleasant, vibrant characters of their own. In the west, Shepherd's Bush in (as sixdifferentways said) is OK. Stockwell and Borough in the south are both decent places. Some parts of Kentish Town/Chalk Farm in the north. And Stoke Newington in the north-east (my 'hood) is great, as punilux said - not being on the tube doesn't really hurt your journey time much, but does keep rent down and creates a much nicer atmosphere in the area.

Some people really don't like long (as in, over 25 minutes) journey times between work and home. Others are perfectly OK with it. Personally, I like to keep some distance between work and home, otherwise I'd just end up going to the same places night after night after night. Paradoxically, for a lot of people, another 15 minutes on their journey isn't a problem, while a five minute walk to the local shop as opposed to a two minute walk can be really annoying. So...

Come over to visit for at least a week, before you even start looking for a house. Use the time you've got to prepare. Look at different areas, see how you react to the tube at rush hour. If you've found people to move with, come with them. Work out what's most important to you - nice house, quick journey times, vibrant local area, quiet local area, shops, etc. If you're clear in what you want before you start doing the rounds of estate agents, everything'll be a lot more painless.

Like arha, I could bang on for ages about this. Email's in the profile, if you want.
posted by flashboy at 6:11 PM on December 8, 2004

I lived in London for 11 years and had a great time but the noise & smell (like any big city) got too much in the end. My story runs something like this so take what advice you can glean from it.

I was at college in the north east in the mid-late 80s. I used to visit a friend who was at college in London & lived in Bow (east end) on odd holiday weeks & loved it. There was a lot going on, I was young and the rave scene was kicking off.

I ended up spending the summer of '89 renting a spare room at my friend's house and doing a bunch of jobs thru a local employment agency. Driving, printing, in a hostel, all sorts.

I loved it so much that I finished college & moved down the following summer into a house in Kentish Town with some of the guys from the original house in Bow - they chose the place and I was fine with that.

A year later we moved out and I ended up dodging around waiting to get on a course in Croydon (hell hole - avoid) and after 9 months I moved into a friend's bedsit when he left the country. Six months later I moved to Kentish Town/Camden with with another friend I'd met thru my original school friend. Stayed there for 3 years with a succession of friends & strangers.

Finally moved out (bad choice - was a great place) to share with a friend in Ladbrooke Grove (Notting Hill area) who I'd been on the Croydon course with.

6 months on I moved into a house in Marylebone (a rare thing a house in the west end) with a friend from the first Kentish Town place & a bunch of people we cobbled together. The landlord thought we had three of us, a baby & a nanny. We afforded it by actually having 6 friends & a baby. A *very* nice place indeed - good scam.

The house was sold a year later & we moved into 3 seperate flats in a block by Regent's Park which we'd heard about thru a friend. It was a bit like a larger version of 'Friends'.

I managed to get one of the flats by getting a random couple when I advertised for flatmates. The guy ripped me off by not paying the his rent one summer whilst I was out of the country.

We both had to move out so I got a random houseshare in Queen's Park with a strange bunch including a future Big Brother contestant. Not my scene but I met a friend of a friend who ended up moving out of a studio flat in Kentish Town so I moved in and stayed for a few years until I moved out of London with a girlfriend.

So what does all that mean?

Well notice the word random. If you're the kind of person who likes to have everthing organised & sorted out you might not want to go this route but you can let the fates make the decision for you.

Visit your friends in London as much as is practical, meet their friends, let people know what you're thinking of doing.

If you can move in with friends or friends of friends it will make life easier (until you realise you hate living with them!) You can generally get out of a rental contract (usually 12 months with a break allowed after 6) by getting a replacement and maybe paying a documentation change fee so you're never stuck too long in one place if you hate flatmates, the area, the neighbours etc.

Is a great place with great flatmates in a crap area better than crap place/flatmates in a great area?

Loot property section is your friend.

Actually living in London will help you make a decision as to whereabouts you want to live so when you first move down, travel lightish (can you get your stuff in the back of a black cab or a friend's car?) and be prepared to move about.

Every district in London has good and bad. Kentish Town has some scary areas and some top scale stuff. Same for many areas. I eneded up loving it as I knew the area & people well. Good for central London, close to open spaces (Hampstead Heath), easy to get all over London via public transport. But I know people who hate it so who knows?

Once you get into London & get a social & work scene going then you'll get lots of experience to help you make your own decision about where you want to live. Concentrate on finding your feet and the rest will come.

If you head to London with the intention of it being a great adventure that you're going to enjoy then the chances are that you will. Get out and enjoy yourself...
posted by i_cola at 10:22 PM on December 8, 2004 [1 favorite has favorites]

You seem to be moving down here on your own, so it's worth bearing in mind how isolated you can become in London. People very much keep themselves to themselves, so it's very easy to be completely alone in a sea of millions.

For that reason, I'd second punilux' suggestion of Stoke Newington. There's as close to a 'village' feel here as you'll get anywhere in London, and it's common to strike up conversations with people on the bus (we are all forced to endure the torments of the 73 here), and to get chatting/drinking with random punters in the pubs around Church Street.

It's about as friendly as you can hope for in London here, which probably isn't saying much. You soon get used to seeing the 'Police appeal : Serious Assault" boards appearing on your street, and learn to tune them out, for good reason.
posted by influx at 1:18 AM on December 9, 2004

London is much more expensive that the rest of the UK, so If you can find a job before you arrive then you can remove a primary cause of stress.
TNT Magazine is a great resource, but get the magazine, the website is quite crap. They also have a "Guide to the UK and Ireland" that's quite useful as it has brief breakdowns of the areas
For places to stay and stuff to buy, Loot is good but if you don't want to pay to get the Early Bird tokens to see ads newer than 6 days, GumTree is great.
posted by quiet at 2:47 AM on December 9, 2004

First off, I have to note that there actually is warning:self link a real Londonfilter. It hasn't yet reached the critical mass that a community weblog needs, but it is very slowly getting there.

Generally speaking, London is an absolutely fantastic place to live. I can't compare it to elsewhere in the UK, but I've lived in LA, Washington DC, Princeton NJ and Boston; and London is my place to live so far. It's exciting, vibrant, and diverse, but it's also managable and human in scale, and full of architectural and natural beauty. (I should note that I'm something of a city boy, so what seems like a managable city for me might be too big for some.)

If my friends are any indication, most Londoners will tell you that the best part of the city is the part where they currently live. This is a good thing, in that it indicates that most people are happy with their lives here, but of course it makes things difficult when you're trying to choose a flat. In addition to all the other good advice offered already, I'd add that, for some odd reason, prices drop quickly as you move north or south from the centre, but a little less quickly as you move east or west.

I moved here with my wife, but if I hadn't, the hardest part would probably be the risk of social isolation, already mentioned above. You mentioned that you have friends living in the area; when choosing a location, factor in where they live and how easy it will be to hang out with them. Also, think about joining a London-based organization relating to your hobbies or business.

For us, the hardest part has been the cost of living. When you make your pre-move scouting trip, don't just check out apartment prices; bring a notepad and check out the prices of things you buy regularly(groceries, movie tickets, beer at the pub) as well as things you buy occasionally (lamps or what have you). Then compare the prices to what you are used to paying, to get a sense of how big a bump in your budget you'll need. Don't forget to factor in things you don't need to buy now but will in London (transportation costs, primarily.) Trust me, it's depressing to live in London and not be able to afford to take advantage of some of the things that make the city great.

Oh, and don't forget to add in council tax to your rental cost. In a perfectly rational market, areas with lower council tax would have proportionally higher rents, and it would all balance out. But the market isn't rational, and if you pick an area with low council tax, you may find that your rent is NOT proportionally higher, so you get a better deal overall.
posted by yankeefog at 3:02 AM on December 9, 2004

I second (third? tenth?) the importance of being within a reasonable commuting time of your workplace. The easiest way to do this is to be on the same tube line - which will also work in your favour because if you're in zone 3 or further out you'll actually be able to get a seat in the morning, and keep it for the whole journey.

The main things that frustrated me about London were transport (slow, crowded, unreliable, tubes stop around midnight) and the extra effort required to do mundane stuff like shopping (assuming no car). And how much of a pain in the ass it was to actually get out of London.

The main thing to like is that there's always something to do. You can't exactly get bored of London but you can certainly get fed up of it.
posted by cell at 5:24 AM on December 9, 2004

Wow, this is all excellent, thank you!
posted by eatcherry at 6:07 AM on December 9, 2004

Vulgar as it is, I suppose it might help to put the money stuff in real figures.

I know people who've subsisted there while earning less than £25K but they haven't been overly pleased with the situation. (30 is probably the minimum for living alone comfortably.) So if your prospective earnings are substantially lower than that, you may need to think hard about compromises.
posted by cell at 6:42 AM on December 9, 2004

Have spent the last 12 years working in Central London. I'd recommend living away from the centre and commuting in. I lived in Surbiton for most of the time, would definitely recommend it, great train link (16 mins into London), and is also great for places like Richmond, Wimbledon, Hampton Court.
posted by lloyder at 7:54 AM on December 9, 2004

cell, I don't expect to be making anything close to that amount for quite awhile! But my closest friend in London making less than 15K and living quite happily (not in the centre of course). I know I'll be on a pretty tight budget for awhile, but that doesn't bother me too much. I don't smoke or drink, so I'm not into clubbing, prefer vintage stuff over new or designer and am much more into just wandering around museums and people-watching than shopping or doing expensive touristy things. I have my indulgences (books, music, etc.) that I'll have to be careful about, but apart from that I think I'll be alright.
posted by eatcherry at 8:04 AM on December 9, 2004

I'd disagree with those figures, I have to say. £25K is pretty comfortable living, assuming you haven't hamstrung yourself with overpriced accomodation. I've been on £20K for a year or so, and have coped fine, and had a good time (although any period of unemployment can hit hard quite quickly). Lots of people I know do well on even less. For me, less than 18K or so gets difficult, but not impossible.

On preview: yeah, you'll be fine on much less...

(And yeah, move to Stoke Newington. What influx said is quite right, it's got a real village feel to it here. And the 73's not too bad...)
posted by flashboy at 8:16 AM on December 9, 2004

For the Londoner on a budget, one good source of free stuff is the London Freecycle mailing list.

One warning is that the default social activity in London seems to be going out to some sort of pay activity, be it a pub, a dance club, or a restaurant. Presumably your friend making 15k isn't going to be pressuring you into expensive dinners or whatever, but depending on the financial status of your other friends, you might find you have to take the lead in organizing cheap or free social activities.
posted by yankeefog at 8:21 AM on December 9, 2004

Thanks for that link yankeefog. I think social stuff is what I'm least worried about - I'm a student, most of my friends are students, and we're geeky, bookish, staying-in types anyway. It's more the day-to-day expenses that, with still living at home, I have little experience of. I mean, you can always just not go out, but you can't really just not eat (well, you can, I suppose, but you're in big trouble if you're at that point...).
posted by eatcherry at 8:44 AM on December 9, 2004

Well, if you don't go out and you're fine with sharing - then yeah, you can get by on a lot less.. But if that's the case I'd be forced to wonder why you couldn't do that in any other city. :)

I'm not trying to discourage you - there are a whole load of people who get by on bugger-all.. Just wasn't sure of your situation or expectations.
posted by cell at 2:10 PM on December 9, 2004

I guess I could, but I've always had a thing about London and I'm kinda having that oh-my-god-i-have-to-get-out-of-here urge right now. I am very set on leaving NI so London seems an obvious choice, even if it's not exactly going to comfortable living for awhile.
posted by eatcherry at 2:41 PM on December 9, 2004

Actually, Cell, I look at it the other way around. If you're in a position where the only entertainment you can afford is peoplewatching, wandering around interesting neighborhoods, and going to free museums or concerts, why would you want to live anywhere but London?
posted by yankeefog at 8:53 AM on December 10, 2004