Interfaith Holiday
December 8, 2004 11:23 AM Subscribe
The Christmas holiday is fast approaching as we all know. My fiancee is Muslim, and we have always celebrated religious holidays separately. This year, I would like him to be a part of the family celebration. For my family it is more of a family bonding time (and become more of an American Tradition) than a religious event. If I'm correct, the celebration of Christmas is for the birth of Jesus. From what my fiancee has told me of Muslims, they believe in Jesus as a prophet, but have many differences in beliefs from Christians overall about who he was.
So would there be a debate between the two religions over the actual birth of Jesus (how he was conceived, is he the son of God....etc.) that would be conflicting for him to join us for dinner and this particular holiday itself? I want to be well informed when talking to him about it, and try to find a way to celebrate the holiday.
So would there be a debate between the two religions over the actual birth of Jesus (how he was conceived, is he the son of God....etc.) that would be conflicting for him to join us for dinner and this particular holiday itself? I want to be well informed when talking to him about it, and try to find a way to celebrate the holiday.
The Qu'ran does have the story of the birth of Jesus, and believes it was a virgin birth. It also gives the title of Messiah to Jesus and believes he will help judge at the end of the world. Of course, Muslims do not believe Jesus was the Son of God, because of their conception of God, and they do not believe he was crucified.
[Corrections welcome]
Anyway, I, for one, see no reason a Muslim would not be able to be an observer (and participant in the family bonding) at a Christmas dinner celebration. Of course, if he keeps halal, do give heed to that.
posted by Gnatcho at 11:34 AM on December 8, 2004
[Corrections welcome]
Anyway, I, for one, see no reason a Muslim would not be able to be an observer (and participant in the family bonding) at a Christmas dinner celebration. Of course, if he keeps halal, do give heed to that.
posted by Gnatcho at 11:34 AM on December 8, 2004
Actually, if he keeps halal kosher might be a good guide for food purchases. Muslims actually look for the kosher sign on food, knowing they can be confident it is free of pork products. The only problem is alcohol being allowed in a kosher product.
posted by Gnatcho at 11:36 AM on December 8, 2004
posted by Gnatcho at 11:36 AM on December 8, 2004
Well, Gooney... I'm assuming that since you plan to marry the dude, you've already sorted out religious differences and put them all aside. You have, haven't you? (If not, there's a good chance it will screw something in the future, especially if either of you is the religious kind.)
On that assumption, bringing up religion shouldn't be that hard. So just ask him how he feels about joining the family for Christmas celebrations. Tell him about the food you're making, casually throw out that you don't offer prayers and the like, and make it sound fun. Being a Muslim, he may not care for any booze, however. If he's cool with him, bring him along. If he raises an eyebrow or pauses before saying "yes", you may want to do this on your own.
Lastly, make sure you have some apple juice for him at the table, and don't offer any prayers at the table to make him feel uncomfortable.
Disclaimer: I'm an atheist.
posted by madman at 11:37 AM on December 8, 2004
On that assumption, bringing up religion shouldn't be that hard. So just ask him how he feels about joining the family for Christmas celebrations. Tell him about the food you're making, casually throw out that you don't offer prayers and the like, and make it sound fun. Being a Muslim, he may not care for any booze, however. If he's cool with him, bring him along. If he raises an eyebrow or pauses before saying "yes", you may want to do this on your own.
Lastly, make sure you have some apple juice for him at the table, and don't offer any prayers at the table to make him feel uncomfortable.
Disclaimer: I'm an atheist.
posted by madman at 11:37 AM on December 8, 2004
Gooney, the Nativity narrative is present only in two Gospels, Matthew and Luke, and they cannot even agree on many parts of the story. many New Testament scholars -- even conservative ones like, say, Ben Witherington -- have reason to doubt that large chunks of that tradition are actually historical, ie they go back to what really happened.
Islam has different traditions on Jesus' life, from birth to crucifixion
Jesus, or Isa as Islam calls him, is not the Son of God (which, interestingly enough, seemed to be the view of many early Christian communities, too). he is, for mainstream Islam, a great prophet -- who wasn't crucified but was raised to heaven while still alive
anyway, Christmas is -- a paradox, I know -- a not particularly Christian day, at this point.
let's just say that Easter would be socially more difficult, for a Muslim/Christian dinner, if theology is mentioned. Xmas is cool, mostly, for Muslims.
posted by matteo at 11:58 AM on December 8, 2004
Islam has different traditions on Jesus' life, from birth to crucifixion
Jesus, or Isa as Islam calls him, is not the Son of God (which, interestingly enough, seemed to be the view of many early Christian communities, too). he is, for mainstream Islam, a great prophet -- who wasn't crucified but was raised to heaven while still alive
anyway, Christmas is -- a paradox, I know -- a not particularly Christian day, at this point.
let's just say that Easter would be socially more difficult, for a Muslim/Christian dinner, if theology is mentioned. Xmas is cool, mostly, for Muslims.
posted by matteo at 11:58 AM on December 8, 2004
Response by poster: When it comes to the meal itself, He doesn't eat any pork products and I respect that 100%, but he bends the rules and is more liberal when it comes to alcohol as he consumes it (except during Ramadan when he is strict to fasting and clean living).
From a religious belief standpoint he's been iffy about Christmas not completely disagreeing with me that it is simply celebrating his birth and sounds like he'd go along with it. Easter on the otherhand is a whole other ball game, and that one I do understand.... he won't be participating in at all and I know why.
posted by Gooney at 12:08 PM on December 8, 2004
From a religious belief standpoint he's been iffy about Christmas not completely disagreeing with me that it is simply celebrating his birth and sounds like he'd go along with it. Easter on the otherhand is a whole other ball game, and that one I do understand.... he won't be participating in at all and I know why.
posted by Gooney at 12:08 PM on December 8, 2004
Christians are far more unlikely to celebrate Muslim holidays than Muslims celebrating Christian holidays.
Christianity is based upon the idea that Jesus was the last profit, something along the lines of "I'm the last profit, none will come after me." Muslims believe that Jesus was either wrong about that or that God changed his mind and decided the world needed another profit, Mohamed.
Christians think Mohamed was a false profit and thus wouldn't much like celebrating the religion, while Muslims believe Jesus was a profit, they just don't like being called "wrong" by Christians.
posted by pwb503 at 12:37 PM on December 8, 2004
Christianity is based upon the idea that Jesus was the last profit, something along the lines of "I'm the last profit, none will come after me." Muslims believe that Jesus was either wrong about that or that God changed his mind and decided the world needed another profit, Mohamed.
Christians think Mohamed was a false profit and thus wouldn't much like celebrating the religion, while Muslims believe Jesus was a profit, they just don't like being called "wrong" by Christians.
posted by pwb503 at 12:37 PM on December 8, 2004
and they do not believe he was crucified
Woah, really? I figured that's one of the very few actual historical events that can be actually be placed.
As for the question at hand: it depends on how religious your family is. If they don't take the religious aspects too seriously, your friend won't, either. Many astronomers heavily contest the December 25th birth, by the way. Just based on the geographic location and heavenly-body location described in The Book(s), Jesus' actual birthday has been estimated to be between September/October.
There's plenty of textual evidence for this, as well as common-sense evidence. For one thing, shepards wouldn't be tending their flock so late in the year (far too cold). Also, the December 25 date is sneakingly close to the Winter Solstice, and the early Christians had a knack for stealing other Gods' thunder, so to speak, by taking over their holidays. Specifically, in the Roman pagan religion there was a guy named Attis, son of the virgin Nana. His birth was celebrated on December 25th.
Sorry for the slight derail.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:37 PM on December 8, 2004
Woah, really? I figured that's one of the very few actual historical events that can be actually be placed.
As for the question at hand: it depends on how religious your family is. If they don't take the religious aspects too seriously, your friend won't, either. Many astronomers heavily contest the December 25th birth, by the way. Just based on the geographic location and heavenly-body location described in The Book(s), Jesus' actual birthday has been estimated to be between September/October.
There's plenty of textual evidence for this, as well as common-sense evidence. For one thing, shepards wouldn't be tending their flock so late in the year (far too cold). Also, the December 25 date is sneakingly close to the Winter Solstice, and the early Christians had a knack for stealing other Gods' thunder, so to speak, by taking over their holidays. Specifically, in the Roman pagan religion there was a guy named Attis, son of the virgin Nana. His birth was celebrated on December 25th.
Sorry for the slight derail.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:37 PM on December 8, 2004
The use of 'profit' for 'prophet', wry social commentary, Freudian slip, or simple a misspelling?
posted by eurasian at 12:56 PM on December 8, 2004
posted by eurasian at 12:56 PM on December 8, 2004
Response by poster: Not a derail at all really, I find history on this quite interesting I just had the same discussion the other day as to the correct day of birth not really being in December.
As far as Jesus being crucified, apparently from what my fiancee told me Muslims believe a false man who looked similar to Jesus was put in his place and was crucified. He said Muslims do not believe that God would have a prophet suffer that kind of pain and suffering, which to Christians is almost the main point to the historical event for Jesus to carry away the sins of the world, right?
posted by Gooney at 1:09 PM on December 8, 2004
As far as Jesus being crucified, apparently from what my fiancee told me Muslims believe a false man who looked similar to Jesus was put in his place and was crucified. He said Muslims do not believe that God would have a prophet suffer that kind of pain and suffering, which to Christians is almost the main point to the historical event for Jesus to carry away the sins of the world, right?
posted by Gooney at 1:09 PM on December 8, 2004
Off-topic but hopefully helpful: The man you are going to marry is your fiancé. You are his fiancée.
posted by grouse at 1:32 PM on December 8, 2004
posted by grouse at 1:32 PM on December 8, 2004
in a nutshell:
Jesus according to Islam, from Wikipedia
However, Muslims strongly disagree with the mainstream Christian belief mentioned in the Gospel of John that, as an embodiment of the divine logos, Jesus was hence divine himself, regarding it as a blasphemous denial of tawhid.
...
Muslims do not believe Isa is Allah, nor was he the son of Allah; in this view they differ from Christians.
Muslims believe Isa will descend back to earth after ad-Dajjal (the False Messiah) appears.
posted by matteo at 1:35 PM on December 8, 2004
Jesus according to Islam, from Wikipedia
However, Muslims strongly disagree with the mainstream Christian belief mentioned in the Gospel of John that, as an embodiment of the divine logos, Jesus was hence divine himself, regarding it as a blasphemous denial of tawhid.
...
Muslims do not believe Isa is Allah, nor was he the son of Allah; in this view they differ from Christians.
Muslims believe Isa will descend back to earth after ad-Dajjal (the False Messiah) appears.
posted by matteo at 1:35 PM on December 8, 2004
It sounds like I am slightly less religious of a Muslim than your fiancee, but still, my experience could be relevant to your question.
Last year, I spent Christmas with my boyfriend's family, mostly as an observer. There were a few prayers, which were fine. We believe we worship the same God as Christians, we just call Him different names. So expressing gratitude to the same entity, just in a different style, was definitely okay. I also went to the church service, and listened to the sermon and such. That was strictly as an observer. You may want to spare him that, if you want to keep it just as a family bonding time.
The most important factor that made me feel comfortable was that the family made it clear I was not expected to participate in any of the practices. Also, they asked about Muslim holidays and the way we celebrate them, and were visibly interested in learning about my beliefs and practices.
It was a family bonding event much more than a religious celebration. I appreciated being included in the family traditions. It is a big part of how you were brought up, and your fiancee could get to know you and your family better by spending Christmas with you.
posted by copperbleu at 1:40 PM on December 8, 2004
Last year, I spent Christmas with my boyfriend's family, mostly as an observer. There were a few prayers, which were fine. We believe we worship the same God as Christians, we just call Him different names. So expressing gratitude to the same entity, just in a different style, was definitely okay. I also went to the church service, and listened to the sermon and such. That was strictly as an observer. You may want to spare him that, if you want to keep it just as a family bonding time.
The most important factor that made me feel comfortable was that the family made it clear I was not expected to participate in any of the practices. Also, they asked about Muslim holidays and the way we celebrate them, and were visibly interested in learning about my beliefs and practices.
It was a family bonding event much more than a religious celebration. I appreciated being included in the family traditions. It is a big part of how you were brought up, and your fiancee could get to know you and your family better by spending Christmas with you.
posted by copperbleu at 1:40 PM on December 8, 2004
If you want to ask "Real, Live Muslims"™, try posting your question to the Learn about Islam board at Beliefnet. A registration is required to post, but it's free. Good luck!
posted by Doohickie at 3:07 PM on December 8, 2004
posted by Doohickie at 3:07 PM on December 8, 2004
yeah, Beliefnet's excellent, I second Doohickie's suggestion
posted by matteo at 4:16 PM on December 8, 2004
posted by matteo at 4:16 PM on December 8, 2004
I'm an atheist and most of my family is either agnostic or lapsed catholic and our xmas events barely differ from Thanskgiving, to give you an idea of how often "The Jesus" comes up. Basically, it's food + folks + presents and religion doesn't even enter into it (my grandmother might say grace before the meal but it's no big deal to bow your head and not do the whole cross thing).
If your family is anything like mine, bringing a muslim, jew, or shriner to your xmas activities is probably No Big Deal.
posted by mathowie at 4:19 PM on December 8, 2004
If your family is anything like mine, bringing a muslim, jew, or shriner to your xmas activities is probably No Big Deal.
posted by mathowie at 4:19 PM on December 8, 2004
You don't say how much actual religion is involved--just dinner? Church services? Type of Christian?
I'm Jewish; one of my best friends in the department is Catholic. She has me over every year for Easter and Christmas dinners--which, we like to joke, is our contribution to the local multicultural scene. Granted, my parents think this is a bit...odd, but really, it's the friendly gesture that's important. If your family a) refrains from discussing theology at dinner and b) treats the event as, well, a family affair as opposed to a religious activity, then it surely should be OK.
Have you asked your family about the situation? It would help if they knew what to expect, too.
posted by thomas j wise at 5:32 PM on December 8, 2004
I'm Jewish; one of my best friends in the department is Catholic. She has me over every year for Easter and Christmas dinners--which, we like to joke, is our contribution to the local multicultural scene. Granted, my parents think this is a bit...odd, but really, it's the friendly gesture that's important. If your family a) refrains from discussing theology at dinner and b) treats the event as, well, a family affair as opposed to a religious activity, then it surely should be OK.
Have you asked your family about the situation? It would help if they knew what to expect, too.
posted by thomas j wise at 5:32 PM on December 8, 2004
Response by poster: Thomas j wise- my family knows of the situation and they are very accommodating towards it.
Basically mathowie described a situation almost exactly as my family celebrates the Christmas holiday....anyone from any religion or faith would most likely not be offended. The most significant religious thing they would do is attend mass, and no one is expected to go...it is a personal choice to participate or not. I myself haven't gone to mass over the past few years either.
Hope that clears it up a little. For me it is more of a family bonding time similar to Thanksgiving than anything else.
posted by Gooney at 10:43 AM on December 9, 2004
Basically mathowie described a situation almost exactly as my family celebrates the Christmas holiday....anyone from any religion or faith would most likely not be offended. The most significant religious thing they would do is attend mass, and no one is expected to go...it is a personal choice to participate or not. I myself haven't gone to mass over the past few years either.
Hope that clears it up a little. For me it is more of a family bonding time similar to Thanksgiving than anything else.
posted by Gooney at 10:43 AM on December 9, 2004
This thread is closed to new comments.
More seriously, if he loves you, he better sign-on to your Christmas, no? I'd use it as a litmus test.
You are correct on the theology, however, I wouldn't try to make it more than a social gathering.
posted by ParisParamus at 11:34 AM on December 8, 2004