We will break up again. But I want to be happy and there are some things I need to do. Advice?
July 3, 2009 8:56 AM   Subscribe

Relationshipfilter: When we're together, I couldn't be more happy. When the inevitable breakups come, I feel so empty and no amount of time makes me feel as whole as when I'm with him. I know it won't last, but I'd take the pain of him leaving again just to have a couple months of happiness. Advice?

About a year ago (mid-summer '08), I met a guy. We'll call him "Jon". It was my first relationship, and it was magical beyond anything I'd ever experienced before. We were so well matched, he was respectful and loving and I couldn't have asked for more. I fell in love with him.

As winter came, things started to fall apart. There would be days I wouldn't hear from him, he stopped wanting to talk to me and his desire to see me was much less. Around five days before Christmas, Jon came over and I told him that I was angry that he'd dropped contact, and that it made me worried. He got angry, we ended up shouting and he left saying that we were over. We got together for lunch a couple days later, and he told me he "wasn't good enough" for me and that he was holding me back. He refused to comply when I told him I loved him and I didn't care, and things ended at that point. I was depressed for at least a month, food became repulsive and I dropped around ten pounds. Life was difficult, I thought about him endlessly and it was hard to function socially. After several months, the pain handn't really subsided but I'd gotten used to dealing with it.

Jon contacted me in March, I'd not heard from him since the day we'd had lunch. In an email he told me he loved me, he missed me, he said he made a mistake and was scared because I changed his plans for his life. My heart melted at this point, and although I resolved to be careful, I got back in contact with him. We talked over IM for a couple days, and we then decided to meet up. After dating in secret for a few weeks, we told our friends and family that we were back together. Things were again glorious for a few months, he was much better at keeping contact and he constantly expressed how glad he was to have me back and how ashamed he was to have let me go.

Things, again, began to fall apart. Jon, again, started dropping contact and lost interest in seeing me. After a few weeks of this, I confronted him. He said he thought we needed to work on our friendship (our "friendship" was fine, great for the most part), and that we should just see each other as friends for a while. I told him it would be too painful, and he ended the relationship once again.

I didn't hurt anything like it did in winter. It was a shock, but I felt so unattached at that point that despite sadness at night, I could be somewhat happy during the day. There were times where I could forget. But the feeling of emptiness that I felt, my lack of connection toward someone was just as pronounced.
That was a Sunday in May. Minutes after I'd gotten off the phone with him, my mother and I began to talk. We tried to figure out what would cause his behavior, and my mom proposed that he might be bipolar.

My aunt was recently featured in an article that advocated better medical care for prison inmates with psychological disorders. Her son, my cousin, was recently diagnosed with bipolar disorder, a great deal owing to her efforts to have him treated. My mother and I got on a conference call with my aunt, and the description of my cousin sounded a lot like Jon.

YANADfilter- Here's what sticks out to me from what she said, as these are things that also apply to Jon. She said that her son, "Jake", didn't get bad until around high school. That it began suddenly, seemingly out of nowhere, but later correlated to a traumatic event. After talking with Jon's mother, she said that Jon's weird moods began one spring when he was 15, but he wouldn't talk about what happened. Jake would have months where he'd hole himself up in his room, not talk to anybody and would eat very little. At the end of each relationship, Jon would have nights where he'd hardly speak to me and when I did see him, he'd eat very little. His mother would mention that Jon wasn't speaking to her and that immediately after school he'd go straight to bed. Additionally, when I saw him at this point, he was uninterested in me sexually, which led to some frustration on my part. To me, this seems the depressive stage.
She also described Jake's manic stage. Where he'd be on edge, where he'd hardly sleep and would talk very fast. He'd get angry at tiny things that didn't make sense. Jon is known for getting angry for no reason, for exploding without a cause. I've known him to stay up for days, but it usually correlated with a lot of school work.
He seemed uncannily similar, especially down to little quirks, such as getting sick at a regular interval, headaches as a child, and an addictive personality- these things all seem to match up with Jon.

Jon contacted me yesterday, after a couple days of lurking on IM with his status saying things like "I'm a fool for leaving her" and other messages that seemed almost suicidal in nature. He said he wouldn't care what anyone thought, that he hated himself for letting me go. I ended up talking to him. I went to see him. I can't explain why. Things heated up pretty quickly. And now I'm unsure of what to do.

His mother is going though some serious pain trying to help her son and has no idea what to do. There are times when he won't speak to her for days and it's to the point where it's emotionally damaging. I haven't told her of my theory, and at the moment she's blaming his actions on being a young male. I can't come close to determining that he's bipolar but his actions seem very similar to that of Jake's. I feel like it's partially my duty to try and help her figure out what's going wrong. I feel like, getting back with Jon is less about making me happy and more about trying to help him.

I want this summer to be a happy one. During school, studying and distance prevents Jon and I from being together as often. Now we're both home and we have what seems an indefinite amount of time. I feel like, for once, I understand, and that I can do some good for him. I want to make him happy. But, my parents and friends don't approve considering what's happened.

Please help, thanks again, all advice welcome.
posted by pyrom to Human Relations (40 answers total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
Stop thinking that you can fix him. You can't.
posted by Loto at 9:00 AM on July 3, 2009 [5 favorites]


I'd give yourself some distance here. This dude isn't the only persons on earth. Meeting new guys will help.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:06 AM on July 3, 2009


Run away from this. He's a loser. The reason he keeps saying, "I'm not good enough for you," is because he thought that you were not good enough for him and he dumped you. When he wants you back he turns it around on him. Seriously, like Loto said, you can't fix him. Don't try it, there are much more stable men out there who would be better suited for you.
posted by Attackpanda at 9:09 AM on July 3, 2009


There are a lot of good guys out there who won't drop you every couple of months. You don't have to settle for this, where you're knowingly signing yourself up for alternating periods of pain and happiness. Please take some time to yourself and cut off contact - including via AIM or Facebook, and really take care of yourself.

Listen to what people tell you about themselves. You have no duty to him, and if you continue being involved with him you will get pulled down emotionally as well. Separate your sympathy for his mom from your romantic attachment, and realize that you deserve better.
posted by Phire at 9:11 AM on July 3, 2009 [2 favorites]


I feel like, getting back with Jon is less about making me happy and more about trying to help him.

I think it's dangerous to assume that what you want for your love life is something that's going to "help" this guy get over whatever problems you've diagnosed him with. Love isn't about playing Superman. When it comes to romantic relationships, I think it's really important to buy "off the rack"- to be able to confidentially say, if this person never changes the things that get on my nerves, our relationship is healthy and truly makes me happy. You can't say that here. Use your free time this summer to examine why this unhealthy relationship is appealing to you, so you can move forward and pursue more fulfilling relationships in the future.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:11 AM on July 3, 2009 [2 favorites]


One of my best friends is bipolar and the year we lived together was very difficult. But what he needed (and eventually got) was medication and counseling. He did not need a significant other.

You could be totally off-base here. He might just be a jerk. But if he really is sick, all you can do is mention your theory to him (and perhaps his mother, depending on your relationship) and hope he gets some help. And while he's getting help you can be there for him as a friend, but not as a girlfriend. There's too much risk of codependence, and if he is having to face a very difficult diagnosis and learn to deal with this disorder he will need space. And of course, there's also the high probability that your heart will get squashed again.

It's not what you wanted to hear, I know. But it's the best thing you can do both for yourself and for Jon.
posted by philotes at 9:15 AM on July 3, 2009 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: I can't fix him. But I can help him, or at least help his mother. One of the most relieving things after the second breakup was learning that he might not be doing this to me on purpose, that his actions might not be selfish but caused by something beyond his control, and mostly that this wasn't my fault or was because of something I was doing wrong. If I can do anything to help his family (people who I care deeply about), anything to help prevent him from hurting the people he loves, I feel like I'm obligated to do so.
posted by pyrom at 9:15 AM on July 3, 2009 [1 favorite]


This sounds like the kind of unstable relationship which our culture feeds us as "normal" through our soap operas and TMZ coverage of hollywood types. But the make-up/break-up cycle is just manufactured drama, and is not the way people were meant to relate to one another.

Drop this loser, find a man who wants to be with you. You want to fix Jon? Then you're not in love with Jon, you're in love with what you picture to be an idealized version of him. Get away from the manipulation, find a man whom you already think is perfect, and discover some well-deserved (real) joy in your life.
posted by hippybear at 9:16 AM on July 3, 2009 [7 favorites]


My mother and I got on a conference call with my aunt, and the description of my cousin sounded a lot like Jon.

You can't diagnose him with a medical condition. Even if he is bipolar - and I say this as someone who is - being given medication or help won't make him a magical boyfriend. (If nothing else, these things take time to work.) The way he is behaving is separate from anything else, because that is what your problems are about. I'll refrain from calling him a jerk because it does sound like there's some serious problems of his own happening here. However, the key phrase is 'problems of his own'. They are nothing to do with you. They are not dependent on how you act, how you look, how much love you give. You can't change this because this is not about you.

Please give yourself some distance. This sounds like an intense and exhausting situation, and experience has told me that these situations need to be walked away from. Sadly, I didn't know this at the time, and I don't think you do either.
posted by mippy at 9:21 AM on July 3, 2009 [2 favorites]


If I can do anything to help his family (people who I care deeply about), anything to help prevent him from hurting the people he loves, I feel like I'm obligated to do so.

You aren't. Really. You care about him because you're a human being, but this is not your responsibility.
posted by mippy at 9:22 AM on July 3, 2009 [2 favorites]


Even if helping him were a good idea, you wouldn't be in a position to be of help because you're too close to the situation. He needs therapy, and professional aid, and if he is truly bipolar then just "being there" and "loving him" isn't going to be enough. In fact, your inability to move on may be feeding into his sentiment that there's nothing wrong with the way he behaves and he doesn't need help. Please, step away.
posted by Phire at 9:24 AM on July 3, 2009


I can't fix him. But I can help him, or at least help his mother.

You can't help him by enabling him to treat you this way. Allowing him to keep having a relationship with you even though he has a toxic pattern and doesn't treat you well isn't doing him ANY favors. It just teaches him that he doesn't need to get help, or figure out how to be a better person, he can just keep doing what he's doing, and everything will be fine. His girl will always be there for him, etc.

Pain motivates change. If you really love him, and you want him to pull it together, you should read some books on healthy relationships, see a counselor, maybe. And then, once you have a good idea of what a healthy relationship even looks like, don't accept anything less from anyone. Ever.
posted by eleyna at 9:25 AM on July 3, 2009 [6 favorites]


Are you sure that you're not just latching onto the bipolar theory as a way to rationalize your wanting to see him? Because I've known four bipolar people closely in my life, and this guy doesn't sound anything like them. He does sound a lot like some emotionally troubled douchebags I've known, though.

Whether they're the kind of issues that require medication or not, you complicate things by being in the picture. He needs a therapist, not someone that, for whatever reason, he tends to bounce drama off of. It's hard to accept, especially if you genuinely want to help someone, but being around you is probably going to do more harm than good since he puts himself on this emotional rollercoaster.
posted by Nattie at 9:26 AM on July 3, 2009 [2 favorites]


Oh for Pete's sake.
Obviously I have no idea whether Jon's bipolar, but nothing in your post indicates any such thing. Getting angry sometimes, being sad about a break-up, pulling all nighters when you have work to do, not wanting to talk to his mother, and not wanting to talk to you are all well within normal, and they are most especially normal for an adolescent, which it sounds like y'all are.

One of the most relieving things after the second breakup was learning that he might not be doing this to me on purpose, that his actions might not be selfish but caused by something beyond his control, and mostly that this wasn't my fault or was because of something I was doing wrong.

You're looking at this in a really self-centered way. Breaking up with you isn't something he's "doing to you" on purpose or otherwise - and it isn't selfish and it probably isn't outside of his control OR because of something you're doing wrong. People break up. Sometimes they break up, feel sad and miss each other, get back together, and then break up again. It's not pathological - especially for first relationships.

I know you mean well, but unless you had a Really Good Reason to believe that he might actually hurt himself - contacting his mother with your diagnoses and theories is not only NOT an obligation - it's creepy and out of line.
posted by moxiedoll at 9:31 AM on July 3, 2009 [6 favorites]


If you want to help his mother, tell her to encourage him to seek therapy. Whether he's bipolar or not (and I suspect he's not, that he's instead just an immature jerk), it'll be good for him.

After you've done that, stay away from him and his entire family. Being so invested in him and his life definitely isn't good for you. It also probably isn't good for him in that it gives him someone to fixate on and to blame for his problems. The two of you are better off without one another.
posted by decathecting at 10:07 AM on July 3, 2009 [1 favorite]


My dear child, there are so many more guys out there. This is your first relationship. It does not matter why he is being King Douchebag. The bottom line, he is being King Douchebag and cannot treat you in a stable, loving, adult manner. Do you really want to keep going through this cycle? You deserve way better than this. If he wants help, he will have to seek it for himself. Cease contact and move on.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 10:08 AM on July 3, 2009 [2 favorites]


I feel like, getting back with Jon is less about making me happy and more about trying to help him.

This is something you are telling yourself to make it okay to commit emotional suicide. When he breaks up with you again, as you know he will, you can justify to yourself and those around you that you didn't even have a choice whether to go back. You had to save him, you did it out of love, he had a medical condition. That's fine, you are allowed to make mistakes, but be honest with yourself on why you're making them.
posted by Ugh at 10:11 AM on July 3, 2009


It would be helpful to know how old you are. You seem to be pretty young. So the advice is simple: There will be other boys. Relationships will not always be difficult, like this one is. No matter how perfect things seem with him when they are good, those times will pale in comparison with some of your best times in your future relationships.

And don't involve his extended family in this, it's not like you married the guy. Just let him go, and move on with your life.
posted by Happydaz at 10:13 AM on July 3, 2009


Everyone's focusing on Jon, but it sounds like you're a little needy too - and that's probably contributing to the reach and withdraw cycle.

You're both young and becoming mature is a process - it doesn't magically happen when you turn 18 or 21. You've discovered that you need a high level of contact to feel secure in a relationship. That's fine, but you're going to set yourself up for a lot of future heartbreak if you seek that from people who feel suffocated by that. What you're learning about yourself right now is far more important than anything you're going to learn about Jon.

Jon may very well need the help of a psychologist or psychiatrist - just understand that if he makes a serious attempt to get his shit together and fix himself, there may be no place for you in his life when it's no longer dysfunctional. Don't make the mistake of assuming that an emotionally health Jon will want to live happily ever after with you.
posted by Lolie at 10:18 AM on July 3, 2009 [6 favorites]


Just reiterating the above advice to Stay. Away. from this guy for the sake of everyone involved.

I feel like, getting back with Jon is less about making me happy and more about trying to help him.
No good can come of this. It is very treacherous ground to tread and you will only be hurting yourself in the process. That way lies resentment (on the part of both of you), resistance to your efforts, and an unhealthy relationship in which you become a second UNNECESSARY mother figure.

Going forward... please be careful about assigning mental illnesses to people who behave in ways that hurt your feelings.
posted by Eumachia L F at 10:20 AM on July 3, 2009 [4 favorites]


Talk is cheap, and to some extent so are feelings. He knows what to say to make you ache, but he doesn't have anything substantial to follow it up with. It's a classic manipulation technique practiced by people who are so lost in their own shit that they can really only give the appearance of adult human beings, and for short periods at that.

He is not going to give you up without a fight. Expect more passive pleas via status message, more self-pitying confessions, and even full-on suicide threats. What you can't expect is for this person to know what love is or be able to reciprocate it in any but the most superficial and manipulative ways. If he needs help (and it sounds like he truly does) then it needs to come from someone who has no vested interest in whether he sinks or swims, and nothing will force him to take it seriously like being left alone with all that garbage in his head.
posted by hermitosis at 10:21 AM on July 3, 2009 [2 favorites]


When the inevitable breakups come...

What's this talk of "inevitable breakups?" Perhaps you might consider instituting a "one breakup per relationship" rule. It's worked wonderfully well for me over the past 35 years or so.
posted by torquemaniac at 10:22 AM on July 3, 2009 [12 favorites]


It was my first relationship, and it was magical beyond anything I'd ever experienced before.

Pretty much everyone's first relationship is like that and the later breakup is always devastating. EVERYONE'S. This is not some magical relationship that you must save at all costs. Let it go, grieve and move on. Don't try to fight it when someone says they don't want to be with you, for whatever reason. Believe what they say, let them go and move on.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:24 AM on July 3, 2009 [3 favorites]


I don't know if Jon's bipolar or not (not a doc, don't know anyone who [as far as i know] is biploar), but you know what Jon does sound like? A dramatic attention seeker. Him contacting you in March, you being involved with the mother, the freaking IM away messages...everything points to the fact that even though he's "hiding out" and supposedly not want to talk to anyone, he has you all constantly thinking and worrying about him, and he LOVES IT. He is the center of attention, and he gets off on it.

Whether this attention-seeking comes from a place of actual mental illness or just being a douchebag isn't my call...but whatever the reason, it's NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

When someone says "I'm not good enough for you," BELIEVE THEM. Whatever his issues are, they're not yours to fix, and you're wasting your time dealing with them.

But, my parents and friends don't approve considering what's happened.
These are the people who truly have your best interests at heart. You should listen to them.
posted by AlisonM at 10:32 AM on July 3, 2009 [1 favorite]


Oh, and this:

I'd take the pain of him leaving again just to have a couple months of happiness.

Why in the world would you do that? Really...why would you put yourself through that? I think you should really think about it. And realize it won't be true happiness - you'll always be thinking "This is going to end." That thought it going to change what you say, how you behave, who you are around him. You shouldn't have to be somone else for happiness on the surface.
posted by AlisonM at 10:40 AM on July 3, 2009 [2 favorites]


One of the most relieving things after the second breakup was learning that he might not be doing this to me on purpose, that his actions might not be selfish but caused by something beyond his control...

As the mother of a young adult who has bi-polar disorder, I find this comment disturbing. If he has bi-polar disorder, that is not his fault. But it's not an excuse for his selfish behaviour, either. Don't kid yourself that his behaviour is not "on purpose" or not within his control - that would just be enabling him.

One reason why doctors are reluctant to diagnose bi-polar disorder in young people is precisely because a lot of normal adolescent behaviour is similar to that exhibited by people who have bi-polar disorder. It could be bi-polar disorder or it could just be simple immaturity. There's not "test" for bi-polar disorder. It's a clinical diagnosis and it can take years for it distinguish it from plain old immaturity or the other affective disorders. And while there are treatments which can moderate the extremes of bi-polar disorder, there's no magical "fix".
posted by Lolie at 10:40 AM on July 3, 2009 [6 favorites]


There is no such thing as an inevitable breakup. When you're with someone who cares about you, they don't dump you for stupid shit.

Not only that, but Jon doesn't sound bipolar to me. He sounds like a jerk. You say you know you can't fix him but you can help him, but let me tell you--he doesn't WANT your help. He likes the drama, he likes knowing that you'll continue to drop everything when he comes back spouting some line that will "melt your heart". He likes the attention you give him and he likes being able to run away when it gets too intense.

And if he IS bipolar, you are NOT the person who can help him. He would need therapy from a licensed psychologist and possibly medication, and he would need to WANT to seek help. Loving someone alone never fixes or helps them.

I recommend you do some reading about codependency and how it might apply to your behavior here. I also recommend that you take the advice offered upthread, and believe what Jon tells you about himself: his actions say he doesn't care about you as much as you care about him, and his words say he's not good enough for you. BELIEVE THAT.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 10:44 AM on July 3, 2009 [2 favorites]


I can't fix him. But I can help him, or at least help his mother.

"Helping him" IS "fixing him." You're calling it something different, but that is what you're trying to do.

One of the most relieving things after the second breakup was learning that he might not be doing this to me on purpose, that his actions might not be selfish but caused by something beyond his control, and mostly that this wasn't my fault or was because of something I was doing wrong.

This is some good insight. Hold on to this -- but walk away.

If I can do anything to help his family (people who I care deeply about), anything to help prevent him from hurting the people he loves, I feel like I'm obligated to do so.

But sweetie, you are not. Sometimes the best way to "help" is to stand back and let someone crash, because that is the only way they can all figure out that they need to help themselves.

Look at it this way. Suppose you had a child you were trying to teach how to swim, but every time you tried your child got scared and flustered and cried and begged you to PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE hold him up or let him wear water wings or whatever, and you did. The problem is -- if you keep doing that forever, your child is never going to learn to swim on his own. Your child is never going to learn how to try doing something on his own if someone is always there to catch him and hold him up.

Sometimes the best way to help someone is to stand back and wait, and watch the fumbling ways they try to do something for themselves.

His family are the only people who are "obligated" to help him, and even then, they are only obligated to do so much. You are not obligated to them. Particularly since any help you offer them seems to be coming at a cost to yourself.

The only person you are "obligated" to help is your own self -- and you need to keep that in mind when you consider how much of yourself you want to offer to another. I understand that you care about this guy, but -- when he says that "he's not good for you," he is right. He is not good for ANYONE, and he will never BE right for anyone unless he learns how to help himself. No one can do that for him.

Case in point -- I once was with someone like your ex. I was with him for four very awful years, "helping him" by supporting us both while he sorted out the "problems" that kept him from getting a job. Finally I realized that we were BOTH going down in flames, and I broke up with him and asked him to move out.

It was the wake-up call he needed -- he went home for a couple months, then came back to New York, got another apartment, and started grad school -- and within three months he was a teachers' aide, and then within another year he met the woman he later married. The kind of help he NEEDED was having all the safety nets that kept him from actually standing on his own being ripped away, and then he could finally get up and take his own steps. And he did.

sometimes the best way to help is to stand back, let him actually fall flat on his face, and finally realize that. It will hurt you to watch, if you are around to watch, but -- he will pick himself up.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:53 AM on July 3, 2009 [3 favorites]


I'd take the pain of him leaving again just to have a couple months of happiness.

Once upon a time, I was in this kind of relationship. I was the happiest I've ever been in my whole life. For a few months. Then he'd start acting oddly, and a month or so later, he would break up with me. Another few months would go by, he would darken my doorstep once more and the cycle would begin again. I took him back each time, because I felt that the happiness in the beginning was worth the pain at the end. It took me meeting someone else (who doesn't leave me, btw) to break the cycle and give me the distance to realize how bad the ex was for me.

He wasn't a bad guy, but he was a shitty boyfriend. He wasn't bipolar, he was just immature. It would have been nice if I could have blamed a disorder for making him hurt me, but the truth of it was, he was incapable of doing anything but hurt me.

This guy you're talking about, it doesn't matter if it's his "fault" or not, he's a shitty boyfriend. He's not suddenly going to become a model of behavior. Do yourself a favor and take it from someone who's been there: walk away. For your own well-being, just walk away. It's not your job to fix him, or help him to become a better/healthier/whatever person.
posted by crankylex at 11:22 AM on July 3, 2009


I get the feeling that you've already decided that you're going to try and "fix" this, so what I'm about to say is based on that assumption.

If Jon has bi-polar disorder, you need to develop nerves of steel and formidable boundaries. Developing strong boundaries is a good idea anyway, whether you're dealing with mental illness or just plain garden variety immaturity and assholishness.

If you maintain a close relationship with someone with manic tendencies, you don't get to play victim - it's your responsibility to develop boundaries which minimise the impact their behaviour can have on you, and it's your responsibility to maintain those boundaries.
posted by Lolie at 11:25 AM on July 3, 2009 [1 favorite]


I have spent much of the last eight years in an on-and-off relationship with a person very like this. During the intervals when he was not mired in depression, he was brilliant, vibrant, hilarious- intellectually we were a perfect complementary fit. Emotionally, he was a one-way drain on every ounce of goodwill, positivity, and confidence I possessed- which, as someone trying to cope with my own diagnosed major depression, was not an endless reserve to begin with. But I, too, felt an obligation to be there for him constantly and to lend support when no one else would or could, and so I was there every time he had a panic attack or was overwhelmed by suicidal thoughts or was considering giving up and dropping out of school. Daily, for almost eight years.

Did it help him? Of course it helped, inasmuch as it helps anyone to have a source of unconditional love and support that weathers lies, infidelity, and an almost complete lack of reciprocation in kind. Wouldn't we all love to have a safety net that we never have to mend. And he's still alive, has finished law school, and earned his dream job. Our friendship is strong. But a little over a year ago, I stopped being available to him at the expense of my own needs. I stopped offering advice on how he could manage his emotional state, other than brief words of comfort and occasional encouragement for him to meet with a counselor. It was gradual, and it should have happened years earlier. I am no longer his source of free therapy, crisis counseling, life coaching or cheerleading, because what it did to me was worse than what would probably have happened to him if I'd never met him.

At your age (I'm assuming you're both a few years younger than me) and with the level of non-commitment on his side that you describe, you have no moral obligation to turn yourself into an emotional crutch for someone who doesn't even seem to be trying to walk, much less towards anything resembling your direction. It isn't just about not being able to maintain a relationship when he's in a depressive episode- many people can't. He's reaching for you not because he wants you, not because cares anything about your happiness, but because he sees you as a source of something that he doesn't know how to provide for himself or seek from an appropriate source, such as a trained psychologist. If this were not the case, he would care enough about you to stop fucking with your head. You do not have, and cannot develop except at damaging cost, the emotional objectivity he will likely require from a professional in order to work towards a normal life. Don't do this to yourself. Step back, stay back, keep your interactions platonic, and learn how to complete yourself.
posted by notquitemaryann at 11:47 AM on July 3, 2009 [2 favorites]


During the intervals when he was not mired in depression, he was brilliant, vibrant, hilarious- intellectually we were a perfect complementary fit.

This. People who are hypomanic are often enormous fun to be around - you'll often hear people who are medicated say they miss hypomania and their partners and families say the same. It's hard to see it as a "bad" thing because people with bi-polar disorder are often at their most likable when they're hypomanic and that gives us a reason to enable the behaviour. Harder still because hypomania doesn't always give way to full-blown mania or depression and it's the depression and full-blown mania which is soul-destroying and utterly depleting to be around.
posted by Lolie at 12:02 PM on July 3, 2009 [3 favorites]


You are responsible, by virtue of having been born, for putting your own needs first. You are responsible for making sure you have a roof over your head, food to eat, a fulfilling life that you enjoy, confidence in yourself and your abilities, optimisim in your future. It's nobody else's responsibility to do this but yours. Only when you've done that, can you start to think about ways to help out other people; and even then you need to think about helping people in ways that don't use you up. You can't be helpful from inside a massive emotional roller coaster drama queen cycle while you're still trying to work out who you are and what you want from life.

At the moment it sounds like you want to stay with this person because you're scared that you'll never find someone better who doesn't treat you badly; so you're staying in an unpleasant situation and justifying it by thinking that you're helping someone. Who are you to help him anyway? He needs to help himself.
posted by emilyw at 12:06 PM on July 3, 2009 [1 favorite]


Dude, how old are you? I mean, seriously—"inevitable breakups"? Manic depression? I can help his mom? This is high school drama and not something that adults put up with. If Jon wants to get right, he'll get right.

Some of the best advice I ever saw on Ask Metafilter was that when someone says something like, "I'm not good enough for you," believe them. They're being honest and you should treat it as such by walking away.
posted by klangklangston at 12:39 PM on July 3, 2009


Aw, hon, I feel for you and it sounds like you are in the beginning of your dating history. Jon may be bipolar (though I don't see much evidence to support that), or he may just be a typical teenage (I'm making an assumption about age here) boy. Thing is, you need to worry less about him, and more about you. You want a happy summer, and there is no reason why you shouldn't have that. This guy isn't bringing much happiness into your life right now.

He has people like his Mom looking out for him. I have a feeling this young man is merely a chapter in your personal relationship history. That doesn't mean you don't love each other, or that there aren't good things about spending time together, but one day you may look back and ruefully chuckle to yourself about all the drama you had to contend with when this young man was in your life. Also, if he does have some mental health issue to deal with, a relationship is the last thing he needs. He needs to get his head straight, on his own, before he can be in an emotionally intimate relationship. That takes time and distance.

Please, go enjoy your summer, and let Jon take this time to deal with his own issues (if he so chooses). You may be surprised what you find waiting for you in the world when this fellow isn't obscuring your view of it.
posted by katemcd at 2:26 PM on July 3, 2009 [2 favorites]


I can't fix him. But I can help him, or at least help his mother.

But who will help you?
posted by futureisunwritten at 3:54 PM on July 3, 2009 [4 favorites]


I'm bipolar, and I'm going to go against what a lot of people say here. That said, I only know a significant amount about my own experience, and it may have little or nothing to do with what your guy is going through. He may not even be bipolar.

But anyway, for what it's worth, here it is: I initiated a meaningless breakup at the age of 18 that went on to ruin me for years. It made absolutely no sense, and I don't know what I was thinking. I completely devastated the love of my life, for no good reason. He begged me to take him back, over the phone, sobbing, and I was immune to his pleas. This haunted me for years once I came to my senses and realized what an idiotic thing I had done, and how horribly I had hurt him. I wound up asking him to get back together a year later, but he was not interested. I plunged into a deep depression.

All this happened when I was 18-19, and I had no idea that I had a mental illness. I went on in the ensuing years to make vastly life-changing, rash decisions, such as quitting school, getting married on a whim to my fuckbuddy, and a series of extremely unwise relationships with sketchy men. I wasn't diagnosed until I was 29 and ended up in the hospital with psychosis (drugs were involved). It took years from then til now (I am 36) to find the right combination of medications to let me lead a stable life and hold a job. I'm now in a very happy, healthy, and respectful relationship that is going on 3 years long.

I say this because there is a (probably slim) chance that if you indicate your suspicions (in an appropriately unsure way), if he needs psychological help, he might be encouraged to get it and it could (in theory, maybe only a small chance, who knows) save him some heartache and personal wreckage if he gets help now, rather than 10-15 years down the road when it really explodes in his face.

All that said, I think really all you can do is plant the seed. Don't push it, just mention it, use lots of "maybe"s and "I'm not sure but"s and the like. Because obviously you don't know for sure, you just have some suspicions. Even if he's not bipolar, help from a psychologist / psychiatrist / counselor or the like could really make a positive difference for him. But he has to buy into the idea, and you can't make him do that (obviously). He sounds like a very unhappy guy, so maybe he will be motivated that it could help with his depression.

At any rate, I think you should keep your distance. As much as it will probably hurt you, I think a romantic relationship with him would be very unwise for both of you. I don't think he can relate to you in a healthy way right now. He may never be able to. I understand that you want to help him, and that is in my opinion a very admirable act of love. I cringe at how so many people in this thread have urged you to just write him off and ignore any impulse you have to help him. Because frankly, I *wish* someone had said something about / to me when I was in the first bloom of my illness. I don't know if I would have taken the hint and gotten help or not, but the point is nobody even bothered to try. Maybe nobody had a clue, or maybe they thought it would be improper to say anything, I don't know. But there would have been a non-zero chance. I think someone you love is worth a tiny sliver of a chance at helping them. Just don't get caught up in the idea that they will understand what you say or act on it.

But really, I believe as I mentioned above, all you can do is plant the seed. If it takes root, and it turns into something that can help him, that is great. But it may never lead to anything, and it may hurt you but you will have to accept that at some point.

Good luck. It must be very painful to go through this, and my heart goes out to you.
posted by marble at 5:30 AM on July 4, 2009


I think no matter how much advice a person gets to stay away from someone like Jon, and that they're better off cutting off all communication now (ripping the band-aid off quickly), people just don't listen because they don't want to. I agree with everyone, you shouldn't try to help him or his mother, chances are he's just a jerk. The good thing is, if you keep going back to him, it hurts less and less every time, and eventually you'll just get sick of the crap, or he'll do something absolutely horrible to you that will just numb you and make you walk away for good. It just sucks that you're the only one who can't see right through this now, and all your friends (and us on MeFi) are the ones who know what the best thing for you to do is but can't do anything other than give advice, and then sit back and hope that you don't get hurt too much.
posted by KateHasQuestions at 6:49 AM on July 4, 2009


Because frankly, I *wish* someone had said something about / to me when I was in the first bloom of my illness. I don't know if I would have taken the hint and gotten help or not, but the point is nobody even bothered to try.

I'm not saying this to be snarky, but are you really sure they didn't? Six years after her PE teacher drove her to the emergency room at the hospital nearest my daughter's school and she was involuntarily admitted to their psychiatric unit, my daughter still insists that nobody even suggested that there was "something very wrong" going on prior to that.

Apart from my own recollections of the period prior to that hospital admission, there is documented evidence of just how many times myself, her school, and her part-time employer tried to engage her in seeking help. Such suggestions were inevitably met with violent, uncontrollable rage - but she genuinely seems to have no recollection of many things which happened during the transition from hypomania to full-on delusional mania.

And her lack of recall isn't selective, there's a whole lot of stuff which happened during that time of which she has little recollection including "good" stuff. Even the post-discharge period is still very sketchy for her - and there was some pretty heavy shit went down then as she had a psychotic reaction to the meds on which she'd been placed. Even now, any suggestion that checking in with her psychologist might be a good idea often gets an "I'm fine, I don't know what the fuck you're going on about" response when she very clearly isn't "fine", and it's not easy to even mention it when you know that her reaction will almost certainly be hostile and extreme and may even escalate her recklessness. If the safety of my grandchild wasn't an issue when she's hypomanic, I'm not sure that I would expose myself to that.
posted by Lolie at 12:53 PM on July 4, 2009


There's a chance he's bipolar. There's also a chance he's just a self absorbed guy who jerks you around when it suits him. Just playing the odds here, but there are an awful lot more guys who are jerks than guys who are bipolar. On the chance he is mentally ill you are not qualified to help him. That requires the help of a mental health professional, possibly one with an Rx pad.

There is quite a bit of self service in your theory. It would be far easier for his rejection of you be due to some mental illness. Toss in a bonus of martyrdom. I'm not pointing this out to be mean, I'm pointing it out because you're setting up a bad pattern.
posted by 26.2 at 3:43 PM on July 5, 2009


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