Comments on: Ultimate

Question: Ultimate

Willie0248 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:57:51 -0800

StoryFilter: Main character discovers he/she belongs to a special or secret group. They meet other people within this group who show them the ropes and open a new world to them. Harry Potter, Interview with the Vampire, Wanted, the original Star Wars trilogy... All of these books and movies are good examples of the meme, but they're all kinda dopey pop fiction. Great fun, some of my favorites, but are there some books (or even good movies) that are a little deeper on the subject?

I really like this kind of story, and I would love to sink my teeth a little deeper into one. I bet there's even a name it; character becomes a something and then is educated in the ways of somethings.

Any good suggestions, Hive Mind?

By: Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell

Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:59:06 -0800

Dune? The novel, not the movie.

By: designbot

designbot — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:06:22 -0800

I bet there's even a name it; character becomes a something and then is educated in the ways of somethings.

The Hero's Journey (a.k.a. the Monomyth).

By: Lentrohamsanin

Lentrohamsanin — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:08:40 -0800

Bad Monkeys by Matt Ruff

By: Margalo Epps

Margalo Epps — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:09:39 -0800

If you like scifi tv, Alias does a quite fun series of a woman destined (and conditioned at a young age) to be a spy.

By: olinerd

olinerd — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:14:02 -0800

In anime, this genre is usually called "shoujo" -- it usually involves a young teenage girl realizing she's really some superhero/mystic/whatever. If you want a mindfuck series, check out Shoujo Kakumei Utena (which in many ways is an ironic shoujo series).

By: drjimmy11

drjimmy11 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:16:26 -0800

1984.

By: McBearclaw

McBearclaw — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:16:57 -0800

I think Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere fits into this category. It's been a few years since I read it, but I remember really enjoying it, and it's certainly (probably) deeper than Harry Potter (maybe).

Sorry for all the qualifiers, but I have a terrible memory.

By: moiraine

moiraine — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:20:57 -0800

The Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan

By: chrisamiller

chrisamiller — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:24:17 -0800

The Matrix fits this paradigm

By: grobstein

grobstein — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:25:53 -0800

I know several real life people who discovered in adulthood that they were (or weren't) Jewish by descent. Presumably this has been written about. . . .

By: saladin

saladin — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:29:02 -0800

G.K. Chesterton's The Man Who Was Thursday springs to mind.

By: vito90

vito90 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:29:36 -0800

The Matarese Circle by Robert Ludlum is a great variation of this - although the main character is not a member of the group himself but seeks to infiltrate it. Great book that's on my re-read list.

By: splice

splice — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:34:19 -0800

In anime, this genre is usually called "shoujo"

Erm, no, not actually. "Shoujo" just means "young girl" and shoujo manga are simply manga marketed to young girls. Kind of like saying "In america, this genre is usually called 'teen'". But point taken on the very, very many anime that adopt the kind of storyline describe by the OP.

Maybe I'll be laughed at for suggesting this, but the Buffy TV series may match the description.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:35:40 -0800

Neil Gaiman's American Gods.

By: jeoc

jeoc — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:43:23 -0800

The Sword of Truth (Goodkind) books fit this. There is a Sword of Truth-based tv show (Legend of the Seeker). I haven't read the books but I gather they are more or less standard fantasy fare in terms of deepness (probably deeper than the Wheel of Time). The tv show is totally dopey pop camp - think Hercules - but still fantastic.

I think this story line is extremely common in fantasy books.

By: Willie0248

Willie0248 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:43:47 -0800

Wow, great answers so far... The Neil Gaiman stuff is going to be first on the list, followed by some others. Turns out Neverwhere is a TV series on BBC; who knew?

And splice, I'm not laughing - I watched Buffy all the way through for this very reason. :)

Let's hear some more!

By: craichead

craichead — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:49:48 -0800

Kids' book alert, but a really good kids' book: wouldn't The Dark is Rising fit the bill?

By: Rangeboy

Rangeboy — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:51:33 -0800

Susan Cooper's The Dark Is Rising series is geared toward young adults, but it fits your criteria and is still a good read.

By: Rangeboy

Rangeboy — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:52:15 -0800

Oops. Great minds and all that, eh craichead?

By: permafrost

permafrost — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:09:59 -0800

Alan Garner's The Weirdstone of Brisingamen and The Moon of Gomrath are the ne plus ultra of the children-and-ancient-magical-mysteries genre. Cooper comes close, but she's got nothing on the Alderley books.

By: Alterscape

Alterscape — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:19:24 -0800

Maybe I'm overanalyzing this plate of beans, but I just finished reading a non-fiction book called Communities of Practice, by Etienne Wenger. The book deals with how learning occurs in informal groups structured around an activity. The examples he uses are very prosaic relative to other answers in this thread (insurance adjusters in an office, for example), but deal with the idea of how newcomers to a group are gradually inducted into the ecosystem, participate, and then induct others before eventually departing the group as old-timers, at the same time causing the group to evolve as they bring new perspectives and/or respond to changing outside influences. No super-sneaky spy stuff, but it's another angle in addition to The Hero's Journey (Campbell et al).

By: thomas j wise

thomas j wise — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:23:06 -0800

I know several real life people who discovered in adulthood that they were (or weren't) Jewish by descent. Presumably this has been written about. . . .

Yup: George Eliot's Daniel Deronda (title character grows up thinking he's his guardian's illegitimate child, discovers he's actually Jewish).

By: cobaltnine

cobaltnine — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:29:49 -0800

Two of Mieville's books fit this category: Rat King is one, and I guess his latest fits that category (in the same way that Interview w/ the Vampire does.)

It's relatively common within fantasy; Flewelling's Nightstalker series is one of the less crappy ones, eg. Cstross' Merchant Princes series was also just recommended by my partner.

By: EndsOfInvention

EndsOfInvention — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:45:16 -0800

Wow, great answers so far... The Neil Gaiman stuff is going to be first on the list, followed by some others. Turns out Neverwhere is a TV series on BBC; who knew?

It was originally written as the TV series, and Gaiman apparently kept himself sane through the process of the TV people editing it and removing bits by telling himself "it's OK, I'll do it my way in the novel...". I've read/seen both and although the TV show is good the book is better.

By: lunasol

lunasol — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:48:13 -0800

This is TV but much of the plot of the excellent tv show Battlestar Galactica revolves around various characters realizing that they are not human, but actually part of a race of human-like robots, and reacting in various ways to this revelation.

By: bashos_frog

bashos_frog — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:53:07 -0800

Also check out Anansi Boys by Gaiman.

By: escabeche

escabeche — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:59:35 -0800

Lev Grossman's new novel The Magicians -- out in the UK now, in the US later this summer -- is a sort of literary take on this theme, mashed up with stuff about drinking, high school overachievement, and taking Narnia too seriously. It's great.

By: at

at — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:11:58 -0800

The Bible

By: lemonwheel

lemonwheel — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:20:59 -0800

Buffy? Might count as dopey pop culture, but it fits the genre, and there's now plenty of related media (graphic novels, books, fanfic, etc).

By: GilloD

GilloD — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:27:05 -0800

The comic book 100 Bullets is right on with this. It just ended, too.

By: cubby

cubby — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:49:01 -0800

The Bartimeus Trilogy by Dan Stroud and The Earthsea cycle by Ursula K. LeGuin are both excellent examples. They are billed as young adult fiction but work on many levels, and are both better written and farther reaching in their ideas than the Harry Potter books

By: nihraguk

nihraguk — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:08:34 -0800

"The Invisibles" is a comic series by Grant Morrison that fits your criteria, and a whole lot more. Spy Game is a pretty good movie by Tony Scott starring Robert Redford and Brad Pitt; the former initiates the latter into the CIA.

By: sporaticgenius

sporaticgenius — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:38:59 -0800

This book is somewhat what you're looking for. It's a good read either way about it. The Conspiracy Club by Jonathan Kellerman

By: ctmf

ctmf — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:43:04 -0800

One of my favorite books of all time, The Idiot by Dostoevsky is sort of like that. If I remember right, he knows he has money coming to him (so not exactly like the formula), but ends up being in upper class society to which he isn't accustomed. It's a brilliant book. I highly recommend it.

By: kimdog

kimdog — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:51:49 -0800

The Secret Society is a quirky little low budget movie... and not at all what you would suspect.

By: grumblebee

grumblebee — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:28:57 -0800

"This Perfect Day" by Ira Levin

"Pretties," "Uglies," and "Specials" (in that order) by Scott Westerfeld.

By: librarylis

librarylis — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:45:56 -0800

The Blue Sword, a YA novel by Robin McKinley (but very much suitable for all ages).

Young girl is kidnapped and discovers a whole culture that she fits into and (super minor spoiler) she becomes a hero , whereas in her previous culture she was a misfit.

By: mukade

mukade — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 03:16:50 -0800

Are comic books OK? If so, how about The Invisibles by Grant Morrison

By: thekiltedwonder

thekiltedwonder — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 07:52:40 -0800

The Merchant Princes saga by Charles Stross nails it.

The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks is really good (though I felt the end of the final book wasn't as good as the rest)

Old Man's War by John Scalzi is like a more modern version of Heinlein's Starship Troopers and is excellent.

By: battleshipkropotkin

battleshipkropotkin — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:20:03 -0800

I just read Ender's Game, and I kept thinking about Harry Potter.

By: dpcoffin

dpcoffin — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 10:12:30 -0800

I'd call these stories "Ugly Duckling goes to Swan Academy."

By: chickadee

chickadee — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 11:18:53 -0800

this is a little more prosaic, but have you read the secret history by donna tartt? it is in no way teen fiction.

it is one of my favorite books and i like it because tartt creates entirely secret and alternate lives without resorting to the supernatural or leaving the canon of this physical world.

it's perhaps a different interpretation of the hero trope - main character (more of a bystander and observant) finds group of like-minded folks, is accepted into their existing social structure, becomes pulled into a completely different way of looking at the world. it's fantastic.

By: Asparagirl

Asparagirl — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 08:47:54 -0800

In the X-Men universe (comics, movies, various animated and live-action TV series), people generally find out that they're super-powered mutants at puberty.

By: clearlydemon

clearlydemon — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 21:27:32 -0800

The Chronicles of Chrestomanci by Diana Wynne Jones are YA novels about magicians and most of them are perfect examples of this genre.

By: exceptinsects

exceptinsects — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:46:54 -0800

Strongly seconding The Magicians. Just what you're looking for, I think!

You also might try Soon I Will Be Invincible, by Lev Grossman's twin brother Austin.

By: orchidarea

orchidarea — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 10:07:19 -0800

Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials series: The Golden Compass, The Subtle Knife, and The Amber Spyglass.

The lead characters grow up to discover abilities and heritages that lead them to an epic destiny. I would avoid the film version, the books are far richer.