Does anyone know about issues of being a man in a majority-woman workplace/industry?

June 30, 2009 6:36 PM

Does anyone know about issues of being a man in a majority-woman workplace/industry?

I am a young straight (not sure if that makes a difference or not) male considering going into a profession that is currently majority female and will become even more so in the future. Currently, the top brass at these places are old white men, but it will become women mostly in the next 5-20 years. I always knew this, but recently I have begun thinking about the ramifications of it. I'm sure that it won't be any sort of struggle, but I'm not sure if I am at an advantage (don't have to take off as much career time for kids, people might think I am very dedicated to the field because I entered as a minority in it) or disadvantage (I don't have as much to talk about with co-workers, might be excluded from social gatherings, etc.) because of it.
Does anyone know of any books/websites about this? Work in an environment like this? I'd like to think it won't be a big deal, but I'd like to be aware of some of the realities of the situation (political, social, sexual, etc.)
There are many books/website advice out there for women on how to break the glass ceiling, but I can't seem to find any books/web on any problems men might have in a woman-controlled workplace culture.
I'll readily give more details if necessary.

posted by SouthCNorthNY to human relations (24 comments total)

What the heck type of job is it?

It really depends on what the workplace environment is like. Reverse-sexism exists, but it requires the type of gossipy, sit-down, water-cooler type place that you find in an office to really take off. If you're pulling shift work in a bra-factory, you probably ain't going to run into it...
posted by wfrgms at 6:49 PM on June 30, 2009

I work in a big city social services setting, so, yes, my coworkers are not only predominantly women, they are predominantly black and Latin women. It's not a big deal, because we're mission driven and work as a team. In fact, I find the team dynamic to be incredibly supportive, far more so than the heavily male dominated job settings I've worked in. I'm not sure I understand what you're driving at.
posted by The Straightener at 6:54 PM on June 30, 2009

I work in the social services sector, so like the Straightener, it's predominately women (we have 4 men in an office of 40 or so...). I don't find it to be a big deal - in fact, I usually don't notice I'm the only man in a meeting unless it is pointed out to me.

To be frank, I find it a wonderful working environment, free of a lot of the posturing and other crap that went on in the male dominated places I've worked in the past.

I'd be careful making any assumptions about what it will be like; go in, do your job, and see how it feels. Odds are that you won't have any problems you wouldn't have in any other type of work setting.
posted by never used baby shoes at 7:04 PM on June 30, 2009

I've worked in several offices that were all-female or close to all-female except for me. Mostly it was fine; the humor topics and level of interest coworkers are expected to express in relatively minor parts of others' lives are decidedly different.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 7:04 PM on June 30, 2009

wfrgms -- It is a job in hospital management. Most workers at hospitals including the managers are women.
posted by SouthCNorthNY at 7:05 PM on June 30, 2009

Be extra careful to avoid casual sexism (you should be doing this anyway), you should be fine. I am a nanny and all of my counterparts are female but we get along with stay-at-home dads fine, although leering and "of course you'd say that, you're a woman! Ha ha!" kind of stuff doesn't go over too well.
posted by kathrineg at 7:08 PM on June 30, 2009

The Straightener -- I guess I'm driving at if it is in fact, a big deal in an environment like that. From the responses so far, I'm encouraged that it looks like it's not a big deal.
posted by SouthCNorthNY at 7:11 PM on June 30, 2009

I'm one of the old white men in hospital management of whom you speak. Yes, the majority of your coworkers and managers will be women, and that trend will probably grow. But I haven't found that to be a disadvantage for males at all. This type of work seems to have very little gender discrimination and very few gender issues in my experience.

Being a male in hospital management is completely not strange. Roles are almost always interchangeable - no one cares. I have always liked working with women, but there are plenty of guys around too. I doubt you will be thought of as a minority, or see yourself as one.
posted by Snerd at 7:20 PM on June 30, 2009

My mom is an elementary school teacher (I think her school is under 20% male teachers) and says there are pluses and minuses she's observed. Parents tend to think the male teachers are smarter and give them a lot more credit for approximately the same amount of work. In general it seems many female teachers perceive the male teachers as "coasting" (at least at her school) because parents don't notice if they do substandard work. You probably won't notice that you're getting preferential treatment, but it's a possibility. I think this is especially an issue with teaching because as a "nurturing" profession it's stereotypically easier for women...so I think the men get points for showing up that women have to sweat for.

On the other hand, male teachers have to be much, much more careful about being alone with a student because even the slightest whiff of suspicion about molestation gets a male teacher tossed out on his ear. This probably won't be an issue for you.
posted by crinklebat at 7:24 PM on June 30, 2009

One of the happiest men I know is a neonatal nurse. He's a burly hairy straight guy with 3 kids. I've worked with many men who were RN's; you HAVE to like that work to be able to do it.

Gender issues? Well, there are people who don't want a male nurse, but there are also people who don't want a female nurse (mostly young men). I don't think men have a clear disadvantage as a nurse. As a matter of fact, it often seems that they have an advantage. The majority of MD's is still male (this is changing fast), and there's a ease during consultation that is often not there when those same male MD's consult with female nurses.

I
posted by reflecked at 7:39 PM on June 30, 2009

It felt weird to say that the neonatal nurse I spoke of is straight. It's not an assumption that's made much any more... that a male nurse is likely gay.. damn. :) I'm embarrased.
posted by reflecked at 7:41 PM on June 30, 2009

I've always found such workplaces excellent. Easy to get along with and less competitive in a destructive sense. Good teamwork.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:43 PM on June 30, 2009

A favorite quote of mine regarding gender roles in the work place (this specifically refers to a woman physics professor, Emmy Noether, in 19th century Germany)

"I do not see that the sex of the candidate is against her admission ...the university senate is not a bathhouse."

Like the rest of us who work as minorities in a field, you will soon find that gender roles really don't enter into the equation most of the time. You won't be showering together, and during meetings the ladies are pretty unlikely to be talking about the best brand of tampon or some such. The guys I work with tried to gross me out and stuff like that for about the first two weeks. They gave up pretty quickly when I either ignored them or fired back. For the most part, it's only a big deal if you want it to be.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 7:51 PM on June 30, 2009

I only know the academic/research-based side, not the experience side, but you may want to google the phrases "Glass Escalator" (men in occupations dominated by women tend to advance more quickly) and "Feminizing occupations" (as women enter occupations, the pay and benefits for those occupations tends to decrease). Also here's one book on the topic.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:06 PM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]

Public librarian here. The ratio of males-to-females is changing slowly, but yeah, we're still very much a female-dominated workplace (although I hear management/administration in public librarianship are disproportionately male-- see If I Only Had A Penguin's comment above).

As a white straight male, it's a little strange at first being a minority, but it's good for you to experience that, IMO. I've encountered a sense of tokenism on occasion, but all in all I enjoy the dynamic very much, and the women I've worked with have been great for the most part.

The funny thing I've noticed is that although I'm in the minority on the micro-level (my workplace), I still reap the benefits of being in a privileged group in the larger picture (society). Patrons, co-workers, and even my (female) superiors defer to me at times in ways that are not necessary or justified; I'm (mercifully) left out of lots of office politics, which often boil down to catty grudges and passive-aggressiveness among the ladies; I'm practically expected to be assertive and ambitious. On top of all that, I'm often treated as a surrogate brother, son, or grandson, depending on the age of the colleague in question-- my mistakes and shortcomings are often dismissed in a "that loveable knucklehead" sort of way.

It's also just nice to work in a non-male-dominated workplace. Cupcakes on staff birthdays, no ball-breaking about feeling tired or under the weather, being appreciated for doing something dirty, hot, or unpleasant. Feeling listened to and empathized with. And yes, being surrounded by smart, funny, often attractive women all day.

On the other hand, there are times when it's not so fun. I'm the go-to guy for all things mechanical, the lifting and moving of heavy things, and problem patrons. When it's freezing outside, I get to salt the sidewalk and lot (though there's a cup of tea waiting when I get inside!). Being pigeonholed as "a guy." Having to wear a tie, with no corresponding requirement for the ladies (they don't have to wear "business" blouses and skirts/slacks).

So all in all, I have to say I really enjoy being a male in a female-dominated workplace, but I probably wouldn't feel that way if I were a female in a female-dominated workplace.
posted by Rykey at 4:35 AM on July 1, 2009 [3 favorites]

30 years ago, this was a big, unspoken problem. Women were far more openly hostile towards men in 'their' workplace than the men knew was allowable when the situation was reversed. It took the women longer to get it through their heads that gender-bias was wrong, regardless of the direction. Now, things have calmed down. Note, it is not unlikely there may be some geographical differences, depending on how cosmopolitan the area is.

In the early 90's, a friend of mine was working as a grocery checker. He actually had a customer tell him off for "depriving some woman of a job"! But that was in extreme northern Wisconsin. Even an hour south of that location, no one would have thought anything of it.
posted by Goofyy at 5:46 AM on July 1, 2009

I'm a male working in public relations, similarly a female-dominated profession (especially at the junior level), and I find the glass escalator thing to be slightly true, especially because the senior levels at my firm are much more gender balanced.

But it's way overwhelmed by the negative aspects of having a ton of women in the workplace - the gossip levels are absolutely off the charts (although that might have as much to do with the industry as gender). There are also a ton of little slights - it's annoying to have clients assume that they're speaking to a group of women on conference calls and address the collective as "ladies", and Rykey hits it on the head with the dress code nonsense. Not being able to wear sandals, even on casual day, annoys the hell out of me. And yes, being the go-to person for all manual labor tasks is another one. These problems get worse the more the gender ratio moves toward the female side, as it appreciably has in the past few months with departures.
posted by downing street memo at 5:47 AM on July 1, 2009

I'm in a public library an 'nth that men simply do not have to work as hard as women for recognition and there is a definite glass elevator ('cuz the escalator is too slow). This may change as older "maternal" women who think they should nurture men and expect less of them retire, and younger women who expect male co-workers to be their equal (and pull their weight) become a larger part of the workforce and management.

I am not aware of men complaining about being excluded from conversations or social gatherings. Do you think women talk about their periods all day at work, or get together at male strip clubs? The problems women face in the workplace are not duplicated by white straight males just because the workforce is more than 50% female. I have talked to a couple of entitled men that complain they should move up faster because of their maleness and the general perception of them is that they entered a mostly female workplace assuming that women would be easier to dominate. Don't be that guy.

You might not find your perception that the hospital will assume you do not have to take time off your career for kids to hold true as many men are taking parental leave (and when my husband took parental leave his women-dominated workplace - including the CEO - thought higher of him for prioritising his children over his career).
posted by saucysault at 8:15 AM on July 1, 2009

Green Eyed Monster and saucysault -- You both bring up that I shouldn't worried that a female workplace will only talk about feminine hygiene and such. I'm not really worried about that as much as conversations that are less blatantly female-centric.

I worked as an intern who did not have much contact with the rest of the vastly female office. When I did sit in on meetings, I noticed a lot of conversations that I had nothing to say about because they were about things like female dating issues/mainly female demographic books-TV Shows-movies. I was already having a hard time connecting to anyone in the workplace because of my temporary status and isolation and this didn't help any. I'm sure if I was talking with these people on more of a day to day basis and was in a position that was not an intern, I would have more of a rapport with coworkers.

Does anyone have any experience with this, when the hive-mind of the workplace starts talking about general topics that they think everyone can relate to but you? Does it not become a problem when you get to know your coworkers on an individual basis?
posted by SouthCNorthNY at 10:40 AM on July 1, 2009

As a woman myself, I would have nothing to add to a conversation about female dating issues or targeted female demographic media. But I can be a good listener and ask questions even if I am not personally interested in the topic. I can't think of any regular topics that would come up at work that are gendered. Even conversations about child birth include men (as well as people of either gender that haven't personally experienced child birth). It may have been more of a genernational gap than gender gap at your internship.
posted by saucysault at 11:23 AM on July 1, 2009

If you have trouble connecting, try asking one of your chattier coworkers for help or advice with a non-work-related matter. Then take her advice and thank her a couple of days later. It gives you something to talk about and tends to lead to further conversations. Maybe ask what birthday gift you should get your dad or for a movie/TV show recommendation.
posted by kathrineg at 11:50 AM on July 1, 2009

I am a woman working in healthcare with, yes, almost entirely female coworkers. Who knows if they would disagree with me, but the men seem to do just fine.

One time, some women wanted to organize a girls night out for the people who worked on the first floor...but when they realized that would exclude only two men, it turned into just going out to dinner. And I would say that the coworker with whom I have the most chats with is a man: partly out of convenience, I have to pass his desk to get to the coffee and bathroom, and partly because we have shared interests in running, hiking, complaining about the data around here, etc.

So yes, we certainly realize that it is mostly women (except, as you say, the executive suite), but as far as I can observe, it doesn't seem to be a problem for the men.
posted by teragram at 12:05 PM on July 1, 2009

Here are some personal experiences of mine. They are my experiences and reflect my background and professional life. They could also represent my good/bad luck. Your mileage WILL vary.

I work in a hospital. 90% of my coworkers and staff that I interact with every day are female. All of my supervisors (at every level all the way up to Midwest Regional Manager) are female. 90% of the time that I interact with them or anyone else I work with, gender is not an issue.

That 10% of the time when it does become an issue (or at least when I perceive it to be an issue) can be a real doozy though.

At the risk of making some incredible generalizations, let me just say that men and women generally treat each other very differently, especially when in unmixed company. I've had female supervisors and coworkers treat me in ways (demeaning/disparaging comments about personal issues, family members, personal appearance, weight and so on) that a male supervisor never, ever would because the male supervisor or coworker would be afraid of getting his ass kicked if he did so.

(As an aside, it seems to me that while men will constantly josh and joke with each other about stupid shit there seems to be a certain unspoken "limit" which men will not cross with each other for fear of actual, physical confrontation. No such limit seems to exist with alot of the women I've worked with.)

On a similar note, the level of catty backstabbing and gossip can sometimes be overwhelming. You will be amazed at the passive-aggressive proxy wars, alliance-building and gossip-gathering between some female coworkers that can last for years and still managed to be covered up with country-club niceness. Some women have simmering Cold Wars going on with each other (and perhaps, eventually, you) that make US-Soviet relations look like Boys Night Out at the ballgame.

I've also experienced an expectation among some female coworkers that men are not only capable but should do more work than women even when said work falls under their job description or you are already engaged in another task. My favorite was when a female coworker of mine (same rank as I) asked me to take out the trash in the office while I was on my lunch break. "Just call maintenance at Ext. 111" I said. "Oh but it makes the office look so nasty." she said, "and you're right here! Who wants to wait for maintenance?!"

I understand where she was coming from but she was treating the office as if it was her personal residence and treating me as if I was her big strong husband who could just stop eating his lunch to take out the 5lbs of trash.

Anyway, like I said earlier, these are my experiences filtered through my POV, and hopefully your experience will be completely different. 90% of the time I don't have any problems with my female coworkers and get along great with all of them. Men and women both have cultural traits and expectations that will make working exclusively either one difficult for an outsider. Good luck with all that.
posted by Avenger at 4:21 PM on July 1, 2009

Depends on how friendly and chatty everyone is, you might just have to endure a lot of conversations about periods, cramps, bras, shoes, waxing, and babies. I know where I work, whenever there's a 3:1 or greater ratio of girls:guys at coffee break or during lunch, the conversations turns to one of those things and the poor guy just sits there and laughs at us. It doesn't matter much since we're all friends and we know that whoever the guy is can endure the conversation and not feel uncomfortable, and we joke about how much it sucks to be him then.

I don't know what to tell you about more serious issues though, but be prepared to be open minded and be able to put up with such girliness.
posted by KateHasQuestions at 7:33 PM on July 1, 2009