Should she stay or should she go?
June 30, 2009 2:31 PM Subscribe
How do I make a wife who is unhappy where she is living happier? Largish explanation inside.
Earlier this year, I took a job in a smaller college town in Wyoming. My wife was rather unenthusiastic about moving there, as she's more of a city person.
Flash to now: she's lived here for about two months, and regularly complains about said town. Also, her career is suffering because she's yet to find a job. I've done my best to find opportunities for her, but to no avail (yet).
She does stuff like look at apartments for rent in Chicago or remark about dreaming of Pittsburgh, which is where we came from. This makes me unhappy, as I think we have it pretty good here and I suppose I see it as an indictment against our lives together.
I'm not really into a long-distance relationship, and she thinks living apart would make her unhappy if she moved away. I empathize with her, but I'm here for at least a few more years.
What could we do to be happier? Thanks.
Earlier this year, I took a job in a smaller college town in Wyoming. My wife was rather unenthusiastic about moving there, as she's more of a city person.
Flash to now: she's lived here for about two months, and regularly complains about said town. Also, her career is suffering because she's yet to find a job. I've done my best to find opportunities for her, but to no avail (yet).
She does stuff like look at apartments for rent in Chicago or remark about dreaming of Pittsburgh, which is where we came from. This makes me unhappy, as I think we have it pretty good here and I suppose I see it as an indictment against our lives together.
I'm not really into a long-distance relationship, and she thinks living apart would make her unhappy if she moved away. I empathize with her, but I'm here for at least a few more years.
What could we do to be happier? Thanks.
I'm thinking she must have agreed to move in the first place. If my assumption is correct, two months is hardly enough time to get accustomed to the differing charms of a different locale. Perhaps the solution is up to her-as in decide to give the place a decent chance?
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 2:39 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 2:39 PM on June 30, 2009
Response by poster: Obviously, the decision to move here was mine, and she (reluctantly) agreed to come along.
We do communicate pretty well, and I understand where she's coming from. Usually after we talk she feels better, if only for a little while.
posted by elder18 at 2:44 PM on June 30, 2009
We do communicate pretty well, and I understand where she's coming from. Usually after we talk she feels better, if only for a little while.
posted by elder18 at 2:44 PM on June 30, 2009
A lot of this depends on her personality. I moved somewhere with my SO and was pretty happy for a couple of years. For ME what helped was finding a gym I loved, taking advantage of the things I loved about the locale (in my case, sun and surf), making lots of friends (no way I could be happy without that), etc. What's important to her? What does she enjoy? Have her brainstorm things she loves about WY, and how she can take advantage of those things. I do think you need to be extra supportive/appreciative of her for quite some time though. I think a couple of years is not an unreasonable amount of time to adjust to a new place. Two months seems early to expect her to love the new place she didn't want to move to in the first place.
posted by semacd at 2:52 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by semacd at 2:52 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Do you have a car? Can you make plans for fun weekend trips to surrounding areas? That would give her something enjoyable to look forward to during the week and help both of you explore the state/region.
Also, have the two of you explored the town together? Do you have stores/cafes/restaurants that are "yours"? Maybe you could start a ritual in which, every Thursday, you go have tea and cake at a specific bakery or a drink and an appetizer at a cool bar. That way, at least a small part of the town will be "hers" and she will associate it with pleasurable things.
Lastly, do you have an exit plan? Can you make an agreement with your wife that the next move (in two years? in eight years?) will be to Chicago, Pittsburgh, or some other more city-like place?
posted by mustcatchmooseandsquirrel at 2:53 PM on June 30, 2009
Also, have the two of you explored the town together? Do you have stores/cafes/restaurants that are "yours"? Maybe you could start a ritual in which, every Thursday, you go have tea and cake at a specific bakery or a drink and an appetizer at a cool bar. That way, at least a small part of the town will be "hers" and she will associate it with pleasurable things.
Lastly, do you have an exit plan? Can you make an agreement with your wife that the next move (in two years? in eight years?) will be to Chicago, Pittsburgh, or some other more city-like place?
posted by mustcatchmooseandsquirrel at 2:53 PM on June 30, 2009
Many decades ago, my father took a job in a smaller college town, and my Mom moved with. He and my mother then moved to a slightly larger (but not a big city) town near the small college town. My mother found employment there, and also stayed home for a while to raise us kids. It's a pretty normal story, really, and at least structurally, we were a pretty typical American family.
But Mom never liked where she lived. Ever. She complained about where we lived when I was young, and she still complains now that I'm approaching middle age. She's spoken frequently about how she feels trapped in that smallish town. She doesn't like the scenery, or the weather, the types of people she meets, or the types of things that happen in that town. Both she and my Dad have been successful in their careers, they both make a decent salary, and either could conceivably move -- but my Dad really doesn't want to give up his job or his house. She doesn't want to have a long distance relationship with my father, or god-forbid, divorce and try to make it on her own. So there's an impasse.
My Mom's not idly complaining -- if you ask her, she'll tell you precisely the regions she'd like to live and what she'd like to do. What she's looking for isn't an absurd scenario, either -- she doesn't want to move to a different country, or find a different line of work, and moving to where she'd like to go would be within her means. But she always felt she wouldn't be able to do that without sacrificing the family bonds. I myself have moved away from that smallish town, and I generally agree with her that the town they live in isn't a particularly desirable place to live.
And so oh my goodness is my Mom bitter. I believe she will be until the day she dies.
But I can say this for certain: there is precisely nothing my Dad could have done short of moving at some point to one of the regions my Mom would like to live in that would have made her truly happy.
If you want to make your wife happy, you may well need to initiate discussions on where she'd like to live when those few years you mentioned necessary to build your career is up -- and if you don't like Chicago or Pittsburg, find a compromise that she can genuinely accept, and give her something she can legitimately look forward to.
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 2:55 PM on June 30, 2009 [4 favorites]
But Mom never liked where she lived. Ever. She complained about where we lived when I was young, and she still complains now that I'm approaching middle age. She's spoken frequently about how she feels trapped in that smallish town. She doesn't like the scenery, or the weather, the types of people she meets, or the types of things that happen in that town. Both she and my Dad have been successful in their careers, they both make a decent salary, and either could conceivably move -- but my Dad really doesn't want to give up his job or his house. She doesn't want to have a long distance relationship with my father, or god-forbid, divorce and try to make it on her own. So there's an impasse.
My Mom's not idly complaining -- if you ask her, she'll tell you precisely the regions she'd like to live and what she'd like to do. What she's looking for isn't an absurd scenario, either -- she doesn't want to move to a different country, or find a different line of work, and moving to where she'd like to go would be within her means. But she always felt she wouldn't be able to do that without sacrificing the family bonds. I myself have moved away from that smallish town, and I generally agree with her that the town they live in isn't a particularly desirable place to live.
And so oh my goodness is my Mom bitter. I believe she will be until the day she dies.
But I can say this for certain: there is precisely nothing my Dad could have done short of moving at some point to one of the regions my Mom would like to live in that would have made her truly happy.
If you want to make your wife happy, you may well need to initiate discussions on where she'd like to live when those few years you mentioned necessary to build your career is up -- and if you don't like Chicago or Pittsburg, find a compromise that she can genuinely accept, and give her something she can legitimately look forward to.
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 2:55 PM on June 30, 2009 [4 favorites]
We went through the same thing last year and it took my wife nearly a year to really enjoy living in the new place. Give it time and find some of the fun & nice things about the new place to focus on.
posted by GuyZero at 2:56 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by GuyZero at 2:56 PM on June 30, 2009
I've been the trailing spouse who agreed to move somewhere reluctantly and I hated the place I moved to every bit as much when I left it 5 years later as when I moved there. There are few decisions I really regret, but letting myself get talked into that move is one of them.
My take on it now is that if you're moving only for the sake of your relationship, then the relationship itself really has to compensate for that. I also learned that if I think I'm going to resent making a sacrifice for my partner, I'm probably right and shouldn't make it.
Your wife may learn to like the place in time or she may not, but relationships are about the happiness of both partners. If she's no happier in a few months, is this job really worth losing your marriage over - because if you tell her she just has to suck it up and make the best of it you pretty much are implying that this job is more important to you than her happiness.
posted by Lolie at 2:56 PM on June 30, 2009 [13 favorites]
My take on it now is that if you're moving only for the sake of your relationship, then the relationship itself really has to compensate for that. I also learned that if I think I'm going to resent making a sacrifice for my partner, I'm probably right and shouldn't make it.
Your wife may learn to like the place in time or she may not, but relationships are about the happiness of both partners. If she's no happier in a few months, is this job really worth losing your marriage over - because if you tell her she just has to suck it up and make the best of it you pretty much are implying that this job is more important to you than her happiness.
posted by Lolie at 2:56 PM on June 30, 2009 [13 favorites]
I spent a good chunk of my childhood in Laramie and Ft. Collins before moving to Denver, and so understand both the pros and cons of where you're living. Would moving to Ft. Collins (and commuting to Laramie for your job) be at all feasible? Lord knows, Ft. Collins is no Chicago (and commuting the 287 in the winter is no picnic), but she'd at least have better access to more of the cultural activities, etc. that she may be craving. (Plus Denver's only another hour away from there.)
posted by scody at 3:00 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by scody at 3:00 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Ok, once again, disclaimers of not always being able to read subtext in Internet communications, but:
Obviously, the decision to move here was mine, and she (reluctantly) agreed to come along.
Marriages are partnerships, stuff like moving from Pennsylvania to Wyoming is a joint decision, not someone just saying that they are moving, and that is their decision. From what you originally wrote, and moreso in the follow up, I sense that your wife was left out of the decision process. Personally, I would be pissed about that, too, and rather than saying that I will follow along to Wyoming, I would have told you to take a hike out there.
If this seems like it may be the case, try couples' counseling. Might well do the trick for communication issues.
posted by kellyblah at 3:01 PM on June 30, 2009 [6 favorites]
Obviously, the decision to move here was mine, and she (reluctantly) agreed to come along.
Marriages are partnerships, stuff like moving from Pennsylvania to Wyoming is a joint decision, not someone just saying that they are moving, and that is their decision. From what you originally wrote, and moreso in the follow up, I sense that your wife was left out of the decision process. Personally, I would be pissed about that, too, and rather than saying that I will follow along to Wyoming, I would have told you to take a hike out there.
If this seems like it may be the case, try couples' counseling. Might well do the trick for communication issues.
posted by kellyblah at 3:01 PM on June 30, 2009 [6 favorites]
You're married. What's the point of moving further away from one another? If you'd both be happier separately in different places, then why are you married?
It's normal to be homesick in these circumstances and two months isn't necessarily enough time to get over that; couple this with your wife's lack of career and it isn't too surprising that she's unhappy. You're all she's got there. If she wants to be happier, she needs to buck up and create a life for herself in Wyoming, not look at apartments in Chicago (why is she even doing this?) If you want her to be happier, you need to make sure you're there for her; she is living there for you, because of you. It reads as though she is so unhappy that she'd be willing to leave you just to live in a city. To me, that spells out bigger problems than preferences of residence.
posted by Polychrome at 3:01 PM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
It's normal to be homesick in these circumstances and two months isn't necessarily enough time to get over that; couple this with your wife's lack of career and it isn't too surprising that she's unhappy. You're all she's got there. If she wants to be happier, she needs to buck up and create a life for herself in Wyoming, not look at apartments in Chicago (why is she even doing this?) If you want her to be happier, you need to make sure you're there for her; she is living there for you, because of you. It reads as though she is so unhappy that she'd be willing to leave you just to live in a city. To me, that spells out bigger problems than preferences of residence.
posted by Polychrome at 3:01 PM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: I have told her that when we move in a few years we can go to Chicago (or wherever we can find a job) that she likes. As much as I like it here (and I like the town, and my job is great), I'm willing to reciprocate when the time is right.
My belief in moving here instead of right to the city (where she wanted to live) is that with some experience under my belt, I could find a job quicker, and not be a destitute urbanite.
We have found lots to do together, and I've been making an effort to do more with her (crafting, walks, etc.) which she seems to appreciate. And we got a kitten, which helps.
posted by elder18 at 3:03 PM on June 30, 2009
My belief in moving here instead of right to the city (where she wanted to live) is that with some experience under my belt, I could find a job quicker, and not be a destitute urbanite.
We have found lots to do together, and I've been making an effort to do more with her (crafting, walks, etc.) which she seems to appreciate. And we got a kitten, which helps.
posted by elder18 at 3:03 PM on June 30, 2009
What's the nearest big(ish) city? Might she pursue a job that would have her in that city during the week (say, in a small rented studio) and at home with you in the college town on weekends?
But also, both of you need to recognize how big and potentially overwhelming her current situation is--you, OP, may not be able to fully empathize and your wife may not fully understand, herself, the extent to which this move has thrown her for a loop emotionally. I'm in a somewhat similar situation in that my husband took a job at a university in a new city and we both moved here (Pittsburgh). I'm not having as hard of a time as your wife, but I do know what it's like to sit in an empty house trying to unpack and get used to my new town and try to psyche myself up for job hunting while my husband is off at his new job. He has a structured path he's on, and so do you; your wife and I are each experiencing the uprootedness of moving without the reassurance of a new routine (through a new job). I can't tell you how relieved I was to hear someone else who recently moved here talking about getting really depressed during the unpacking/settling in phase. Your wife needs to hear that it's ok to feel unsettled and unsure about this.
She could try taking classes or joining a gym to add a little routine and get used to her new living situation on her own terms. Sure, it may make her feel a little better to talk things over with you, but I think it's important to get to know your new town and fall into your own routine apart from your spouse as well as together.
posted by Meg_Murry at 3:03 PM on June 30, 2009
But also, both of you need to recognize how big and potentially overwhelming her current situation is--you, OP, may not be able to fully empathize and your wife may not fully understand, herself, the extent to which this move has thrown her for a loop emotionally. I'm in a somewhat similar situation in that my husband took a job at a university in a new city and we both moved here (Pittsburgh). I'm not having as hard of a time as your wife, but I do know what it's like to sit in an empty house trying to unpack and get used to my new town and try to psyche myself up for job hunting while my husband is off at his new job. He has a structured path he's on, and so do you; your wife and I are each experiencing the uprootedness of moving without the reassurance of a new routine (through a new job). I can't tell you how relieved I was to hear someone else who recently moved here talking about getting really depressed during the unpacking/settling in phase. Your wife needs to hear that it's ok to feel unsettled and unsure about this.
She could try taking classes or joining a gym to add a little routine and get used to her new living situation on her own terms. Sure, it may make her feel a little better to talk things over with you, but I think it's important to get to know your new town and fall into your own routine apart from your spouse as well as together.
posted by Meg_Murry at 3:03 PM on June 30, 2009
The two of you don't "have it pretty good there," you have it pretty good and she really really doesn't.
That's not your fault- she did agree to the move, after all. But if she feels it was a huge mistake now, well, she just does. As a person who also loves big cities, I don't see her suddenly coming to love it. She may grow to TOLERATE it, but do you really want the woman you love to have to 'tolerate' her life?
If there is there any possibility of you looking for work in a bigger city, take it. If you aren't willing to do that, you need to think about whether you two can build a life together.
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:04 PM on June 30, 2009
That's not your fault- she did agree to the move, after all. But if she feels it was a huge mistake now, well, she just does. As a person who also loves big cities, I don't see her suddenly coming to love it. She may grow to TOLERATE it, but do you really want the woman you love to have to 'tolerate' her life?
If there is there any possibility of you looking for work in a bigger city, take it. If you aren't willing to do that, you need to think about whether you two can build a life together.
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:04 PM on June 30, 2009
I'm willing to bet that a significant portion of her unhappiness is stemming from the fact that she is out of work. Of course, part of this is out of both of your control. You don't mention what she does for a living, but hopefully, the area that you're living in now has some kind of market for her line of work? I can tell you from first hand experience that it's very, very hard to move to a new place and not be able to find a job. It's frustrating to have very little to do, and it makes finding new friends that much more difficult as well. I suspect that if she was able to begin building a life of her own there that some of her anxiety might ease. I agree that 2 months is probably far too little time to understand if she will be truly unhappy there, especially in this economy.
I too wonder exactly how the conversation went when you were deciding to move. Surely, she had some input in the decision? I'm assuming the opportunity for you was just too good to pass up, and she agreed to move despite her reservations because of this fact. In the end, both of your needs and desires are going to have to be accounted for in the relationship. She agreed to make the move for you, and she really needs to give adjusting to your new home a fair and honest shot. However, if she does this and she's still truly unhappy, you have to be willing to compromise as well and consider looking for a location that can provide for both of your needs. An exit strategy, as mustcatchmooseandsquirrel says, might make her feel a little bit better.
posted by theantikitty at 3:05 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
I too wonder exactly how the conversation went when you were deciding to move. Surely, she had some input in the decision? I'm assuming the opportunity for you was just too good to pass up, and she agreed to move despite her reservations because of this fact. In the end, both of your needs and desires are going to have to be accounted for in the relationship. She agreed to make the move for you, and she really needs to give adjusting to your new home a fair and honest shot. However, if she does this and she's still truly unhappy, you have to be willing to compromise as well and consider looking for a location that can provide for both of your needs. An exit strategy, as mustcatchmooseandsquirrel says, might make her feel a little bit better.
posted by theantikitty at 3:05 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
I have told her that when we move in a few years we can go to Chicago (or wherever we can find a job) that she likes.
You have told her? You've already decided for both of you that you will move in "in a few years"? Wow. Just WOW. Are there any major decisions in your relationship that are actually negotiated? Why aren't you even considering the possibility of shortening your stay in this particular place?
Unless you start being a partnership in which she's an equal partner, I don't think you're going to have to worry about where's she's going to want to live in a "few years time" - chances are it won't be with you.
posted by Lolie at 3:12 PM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
You have told her? You've already decided for both of you that you will move in "in a few years"? Wow. Just WOW. Are there any major decisions in your relationship that are actually negotiated? Why aren't you even considering the possibility of shortening your stay in this particular place?
Unless you start being a partnership in which she's an equal partner, I don't think you're going to have to worry about where's she's going to want to live in a "few years time" - chances are it won't be with you.
posted by Lolie at 3:12 PM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I've mentioned to her my support for her moving to a bigger city if she can find a job, but she knows being apart from me would make her unhappy. She's said this many times.
The job I have now is a fantastic position in a field (archiving) where jobs are hard to come by. My suspicion is that if I were to look for a new job, somewhere else, having only worked here for less than a year, all sorts of red flags would go up.
I admit I was selfish in moving here, but I suppose I was (an am) confident she'd land on her feet.
I do think not having a job is a big part of her being unhappy. I've suggested volunteering to her in the meantime, but she's not taken steps to take advantage of some of the opportunities. This is frustrating to me.
posted by elder18 at 3:12 PM on June 30, 2009
The job I have now is a fantastic position in a field (archiving) where jobs are hard to come by. My suspicion is that if I were to look for a new job, somewhere else, having only worked here for less than a year, all sorts of red flags would go up.
I admit I was selfish in moving here, but I suppose I was (an am) confident she'd land on her feet.
I do think not having a job is a big part of her being unhappy. I've suggested volunteering to her in the meantime, but she's not taken steps to take advantage of some of the opportunities. This is frustrating to me.
posted by elder18 at 3:12 PM on June 30, 2009
Advice form a girl who is in your wife's situation, exactly!
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I moved from an 8 million people city (Lima, Peru) with everything from coffee places to thaters, museums, crazy night life, etc. to a small suburb in VA, for my husband; and for my husband alone. Since this decision was completely and utterly about him, we agreed on balancing things out by moving to a bigger city in a couple of years (our set date is August 2012). I really don't like it here, but knowing that it's not going to be forever makes me feel a lot less desperate, and the fact that my husband made a serious promise and talks frequently about our future plans (I think he does it to reassure me) makes everything a lot easier.
If you are married you need to understand that you have to find middle ground and compromise, it doesn't matter how happy something makes you, if your wife is miserable, then it simply isn't an alternative to consider. My advice is: sit down together, talk about your plans in the future, ask her to be patient now and plan your life together according to the needs and wants of the both of you, maybe even talk about possible cities to which you will move, even if it is in 5 years. And if you do make a promise, make sure you do not brake it.
Just please do not let yourself talk her into doing the things that you like, specially things that, deep down, you know she won't like, because guess want? Sooner or later she'll notice, and it will blow up in your face.
posted by Tarumba at 3:14 PM on June 30, 2009 [4 favorites]
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I moved from an 8 million people city (Lima, Peru) with everything from coffee places to thaters, museums, crazy night life, etc. to a small suburb in VA, for my husband; and for my husband alone. Since this decision was completely and utterly about him, we agreed on balancing things out by moving to a bigger city in a couple of years (our set date is August 2012). I really don't like it here, but knowing that it's not going to be forever makes me feel a lot less desperate, and the fact that my husband made a serious promise and talks frequently about our future plans (I think he does it to reassure me) makes everything a lot easier.
If you are married you need to understand that you have to find middle ground and compromise, it doesn't matter how happy something makes you, if your wife is miserable, then it simply isn't an alternative to consider. My advice is: sit down together, talk about your plans in the future, ask her to be patient now and plan your life together according to the needs and wants of the both of you, maybe even talk about possible cities to which you will move, even if it is in 5 years. And if you do make a promise, make sure you do not brake it.
Just please do not let yourself talk her into doing the things that you like, specially things that, deep down, you know she won't like, because guess want? Sooner or later she'll notice, and it will blow up in your face.
posted by Tarumba at 3:14 PM on June 30, 2009 [4 favorites]
Basically:
1. Everything in this new town is great for you but not for your wife (you have a great job etc, she has no opportunities).
2. The decision to move was essentially yours.
3. You don't seem to want to change things.
Additionally it makes no difference if you start off in the city right away. Cities have a much larger number & range of opportunities as compared to small towns.
Speaking as a 'city person' myself, if you want everyone to be happier I recommend making concrete plans to move to the city. Unless you are specifically avoiding cities in which case you'll have to work out a compromise somehow.
posted by the_ancient_mariner at 3:17 PM on June 30, 2009 [5 favorites]
1. Everything in this new town is great for you but not for your wife (you have a great job etc, she has no opportunities).
2. The decision to move was essentially yours.
3. You don't seem to want to change things.
Additionally it makes no difference if you start off in the city right away. Cities have a much larger number & range of opportunities as compared to small towns.
Speaking as a 'city person' myself, if you want everyone to be happier I recommend making concrete plans to move to the city. Unless you are specifically avoiding cities in which case you'll have to work out a compromise somehow.
posted by the_ancient_mariner at 3:17 PM on June 30, 2009 [5 favorites]
I've been the trailing spouse who agreed to move somewhere reluctantly and I hated the place I moved to every bit as much when I left it 5 years later as when I moved there.
Me, too. I spent five miserable years in Kankakee, Illinois, and the only thing that made it better was getting out. I don't regret the decision to go there, because the experience my husband got there made it possible for him to get a much better job in a more desirable location. But it really sucked while it was going on. Be committed to moving on when you can, rather than settling in because you feel like you have it pretty good.
posted by Daily Alice at 3:19 PM on June 30, 2009
Me, too. I spent five miserable years in Kankakee, Illinois, and the only thing that made it better was getting out. I don't regret the decision to go there, because the experience my husband got there made it possible for him to get a much better job in a more desirable location. But it really sucked while it was going on. Be committed to moving on when you can, rather than settling in because you feel like you have it pretty good.
posted by Daily Alice at 3:19 PM on June 30, 2009
I have told her that when we move in a few years we can go to Chicago (or wherever we can find a job) that she likes. As much as I like it here (and I like the town, and my job is great), I'm willing to reciprocate when the time is right.
I think you need a more concrete plan." Agree to a deadline. Two years, three years, whatever. Create a list of cities on which you both agree. At the deadline, start jobhunting.
Now, I gently must submit something for your attention. I know I'm picking apart one comment, you probably don't mean it this way, it's just a function of trying to be brief, but when you say "in a few years" and "wherever she likes" and "when the time is right," I wonder if this comes across as a big giant "yes, dear." Lemme explain:
You say that you're willing to move to a place that she'll like, but where "we" can get jobs. But this last move was just about your job. There's a whiff in your question of "if you really must uproot me from this place and job that I love, I guess it's only fair."
Dude, this sounds like a good way for you two to take turns resenting each other. If you hate Chicago or can't get as good of a job there as you have in smalltown Wyoming, is it going to be round three?
posted by desuetude at 3:20 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think you need a more concrete plan." Agree to a deadline. Two years, three years, whatever. Create a list of cities on which you both agree. At the deadline, start jobhunting.
Now, I gently must submit something for your attention. I know I'm picking apart one comment, you probably don't mean it this way, it's just a function of trying to be brief, but when you say "in a few years" and "wherever she likes" and "when the time is right," I wonder if this comes across as a big giant "yes, dear." Lemme explain:
You say that you're willing to move to a place that she'll like, but where "we" can get jobs. But this last move was just about your job. There's a whiff in your question of "if you really must uproot me from this place and job that I love, I guess it's only fair."
Dude, this sounds like a good way for you two to take turns resenting each other. If you hate Chicago or can't get as good of a job there as you have in smalltown Wyoming, is it going to be round three?
posted by desuetude at 3:20 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Again, what about moving to Ft. Collins as a compromise? You commute an hour each way, and she gets a town that's bigger and more cosmopolitan than Laramie.
posted by scody at 3:23 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by scody at 3:23 PM on June 30, 2009
Seconding scody. I'm pretty much a city person who never wants to live in a rural place again, and I could see myself being reasonably happy in Ft. Collins, even if it's not very cosmopolitan. An hour-long commute for you seems like a small sacrifice for the huge improvement between Laramie and Ft. Collins.
posted by iminurmefi at 3:26 PM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by iminurmefi at 3:26 PM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
I am the trailing spouse, and I have tried very very hard not to be resentful or bitter about our move from a huge metropolis to a very small college town. I have tried very hard to look on the bright side, and I have found many things to like about where I live now. But the only reason I live here is because of my husband. I do not want to live here, never chose to live here, and would move back to my old city in a heartbeat. Marriage is a compromise, and this move was a compromise that I entered into willingly and with both eyes open. I knew I would not like living where I live now, and even after three years, I am still ambivalent. I can tick off a list of good things about this town, but they will never be the same as what I left behind. Nowhere close. But like I said, marriage is a compromise, and my sacrifice is part of that, and it helps keep me from becoming resentful. Resentment could be one of the toughest battles to overcome.
Small things that help from my husband: a) We spend a month a year in the city of previous residence. That may not work for you, but we can pull that off. It helps me stay sane. b) Contact with my friends at home, and I invite them to visit me whenever possible. c) (and this one is most important) When the time is right, we move back. Period.
Maybe that would work for you. Give her something to look forward to.
posted by msali at 3:30 PM on June 30, 2009
Small things that help from my husband: a) We spend a month a year in the city of previous residence. That may not work for you, but we can pull that off. It helps me stay sane. b) Contact with my friends at home, and I invite them to visit me whenever possible. c) (and this one is most important) When the time is right, we move back. Period.
Maybe that would work for you. Give her something to look forward to.
posted by msali at 3:30 PM on June 30, 2009
Four months ago I moved from a major world capital to a major rust belt laughingstock* because my husband got a great job here. We moved together, after much discussion, much research on my part about whether there was anywhere I might be able to work, and a certain amount of faith. Mostly I like it, actually, but if my husband were all "I told her, I decided," I would have been full of resentment. And by resentment, I mean weapons-grade divorcium.
Give it a year. Both of you. If you can't decide as a couple to stay, at the end of that year, then you need to decide as a couple to go somewhere else.
*I keeed, Cleveland!
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 3:30 PM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
Give it a year. Both of you. If you can't decide as a couple to stay, at the end of that year, then you need to decide as a couple to go somewhere else.
*I keeed, Cleveland!
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 3:30 PM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
I've mentioned to her my support for her moving to a bigger city if she can find a job, but she knows being apart from me would make her unhappy.
This can easily sound like (and may sound to her like) this: She moved to follow your job, but you wouldn't move to follow her job. She's welcome to find a job somewhere inconvenient for you, but if she does she can move on her own. When you found a job in a place inconvenient for her, she moved.
I'm no fan of commuting, but that may be your solution. If not, start looking for a new job in a place you can both be happy. If nobody wants to hire you because you just started this job, that's fine, you haven't lost anything. No harm in trying.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:37 PM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
This can easily sound like (and may sound to her like) this: She moved to follow your job, but you wouldn't move to follow her job. She's welcome to find a job somewhere inconvenient for you, but if she does she can move on her own. When you found a job in a place inconvenient for her, she moved.
I'm no fan of commuting, but that may be your solution. If not, start looking for a new job in a place you can both be happy. If nobody wants to hire you because you just started this job, that's fine, you haven't lost anything. No harm in trying.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:37 PM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
Dear OP
Whether you mean to or not, you're coming across as a parent not a partner. You're telling your wife to volunteer and frustrated that she's not doing what you tell her? She's not a child. I know you think you're being helpful, but is there a possibility that instead you're coming across as patronising. She already resents having made this move for your benefit - and she's sure as hell going to resent it even more if you come across as trying to micro-manage her life.
Bottom line - your job will never love you back. Doing something "for the future" shouldn't include destroying your relationship in the process. She hasn't asked you to choose yet, but don't be surprised if she does.
And maybe finding a job she likes will help, but what if she can only find a job she doesn't like? Then she's stuck in a place she doesn't like, doing a job she doesn't like, being pressured to engage in activities she doesn't like - and for what? For a the promise of a future which may never come.
posted by Lolie at 3:38 PM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
Whether you mean to or not, you're coming across as a parent not a partner. You're telling your wife to volunteer and frustrated that she's not doing what you tell her? She's not a child. I know you think you're being helpful, but is there a possibility that instead you're coming across as patronising. She already resents having made this move for your benefit - and she's sure as hell going to resent it even more if you come across as trying to micro-manage her life.
Bottom line - your job will never love you back. Doing something "for the future" shouldn't include destroying your relationship in the process. She hasn't asked you to choose yet, but don't be surprised if she does.
And maybe finding a job she likes will help, but what if she can only find a job she doesn't like? Then she's stuck in a place she doesn't like, doing a job she doesn't like, being pressured to engage in activities she doesn't like - and for what? For a the promise of a future which may never come.
posted by Lolie at 3:38 PM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
I hate where I live. I have for years. I'm essentially stuck here, and that makes me hate it all the more. Being stuck here has made me a bitter, bitter person. My bitterness grows deeper by the day. I hate where I live. SO. VERY. MUCH. This will not change until I'm able to live in a city that I actually enjoy.
Do you want to live with a woman who grows more bitter by the day? I would guess not. I would strongly recommend you come to an agreement as soon as possible, for both your sakes.
You've said that you'll move wherever she likes, that's a start, but maybe a firm timeline on your part would help.
posted by lekvar at 3:40 PM on June 30, 2009
Do you want to live with a woman who grows more bitter by the day? I would guess not. I would strongly recommend you come to an agreement as soon as possible, for both your sakes.
You've said that you'll move wherever she likes, that's a start, but maybe a firm timeline on your part would help.
posted by lekvar at 3:40 PM on June 30, 2009
Best answer: Thirding what scody said. Moving to Ft. Collins would signal to your wife that you are willing to make some accommodations with regards to her happiness with where you are living now. At a minimum, your wife should be looking for work in Ft. Collins as well as in Laramie- that would increase the odds of her finding something.
And living in Ft. Collins means you are that much closer to the booming metropolis of Denver. Weekend getaways to Denver are a lot more manageable from Ft. Collins than they are from Laramie.
And yet another disclaimer on inadvertent internet communications, but I can't help being struck that seeing your wife wistfully look at apartments in Chicago makes you "unhappy, as I think we have it pretty good here and I suppose I see it as an indictment against our lives together."
If your wife is unhappy, you don't have it pretty good in Laramie, no matter how much it may suit you individually. She has agreed to take one for the team. That means that you have to back her up in her backing you up.
posted by ambrosia at 3:48 PM on June 30, 2009 [6 favorites]
And living in Ft. Collins means you are that much closer to the booming metropolis of Denver. Weekend getaways to Denver are a lot more manageable from Ft. Collins than they are from Laramie.
And yet another disclaimer on inadvertent internet communications, but I can't help being struck that seeing your wife wistfully look at apartments in Chicago makes you "unhappy, as I think we have it pretty good here and I suppose I see it as an indictment against our lives together."
If your wife is unhappy, you don't have it pretty good in Laramie, no matter how much it may suit you individually. She has agreed to take one for the team. That means that you have to back her up in her backing you up.
posted by ambrosia at 3:48 PM on June 30, 2009 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: Well, I suppose the point of my asking for advice would be to find ways to prevent her from becoming a bitter person. I think this is possible, as I know there are some things about living here that she likes. This is why I asked what others think.
I think that in several respects we have a pretty fair relationship. If she had gotten a good job in Chicago, I would have moved there with her, despite my reservations. I just happened to get this job, and thought (and think) that we could be happy here, even if it wasn't ideal for both of us. If I had done so, and I didn't have a job and was miserable, then wouldn't I be in the same position she is now?
It's difficult to explain, but I think I've been fairer than some people on here seem to think.
posted by elder18 at 3:49 PM on June 30, 2009
I think that in several respects we have a pretty fair relationship. If she had gotten a good job in Chicago, I would have moved there with her, despite my reservations. I just happened to get this job, and thought (and think) that we could be happy here, even if it wasn't ideal for both of us. If I had done so, and I didn't have a job and was miserable, then wouldn't I be in the same position she is now?
It's difficult to explain, but I think I've been fairer than some people on here seem to think.
posted by elder18 at 3:49 PM on June 30, 2009
What I'm not hearing is that everything was wonderful and the relationship was happy before the move. Perhaps your wife had things in the city which distracted her attention from fundamental flaws in the relationship and those flaws are now being magnified.
And I agree with the suggestion up-thread that you should be inviting lots of people to come visit in your new location. Going "home" to see people keeps you anchored in your old location and tends to make homesickness worse. By all means go for holidays there, but don't use it as a "fix" for homesickness.
Ironically, I'm the country girl who always feels suffocated in the city, but the dynamic is similar. How happy I'm going to be in a particular location is going to depend a lot more on whether my needs are being met than anything else.
posted by Lolie at 3:53 PM on June 30, 2009
And I agree with the suggestion up-thread that you should be inviting lots of people to come visit in your new location. Going "home" to see people keeps you anchored in your old location and tends to make homesickness worse. By all means go for holidays there, but don't use it as a "fix" for homesickness.
Ironically, I'm the country girl who always feels suffocated in the city, but the dynamic is similar. How happy I'm going to be in a particular location is going to depend a lot more on whether my needs are being met than anything else.
posted by Lolie at 3:53 PM on June 30, 2009
If I had done so, and I didn't have a job and was miserable, then wouldn't I be in the same position she is now?
If so (it was unclear to me that you would be unhappy in Chicago, or wherever), then oviously that's a bad solution, too. If commuting won't work, why don't you both look for jobs only in places you would both be happy and when one of you gets a job, move there. Figure out if you want to move somewhere before you apply for the job, that way you won't be in a position to make heard choices when an offer is being dangled in front of you.
You have enough in common to have decided to share your lives with one another. Presumably there exist places where you would both be happy to live.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:53 PM on June 30, 2009
If so (it was unclear to me that you would be unhappy in Chicago, or wherever), then oviously that's a bad solution, too. If commuting won't work, why don't you both look for jobs only in places you would both be happy and when one of you gets a job, move there. Figure out if you want to move somewhere before you apply for the job, that way you won't be in a position to make heard choices when an offer is being dangled in front of you.
You have enough in common to have decided to share your lives with one another. Presumably there exist places where you would both be happy to live.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:53 PM on June 30, 2009
It's difficult to explain, but I think I've been fairer than some people on here seem to think.
Again, this isn't about some arbitrary concept of "fairness", it's about happiness. If you'd moved for your wife's work and you were miserable I would hope that you'd jointly reconsider whether the move was a viable option.
When a decision isn't working, reconsider it. You seem wedded to sticking to this one at all costs, even if it results in a bitter ex-wife. You seem utterly unwilling to say "that didn't work as well as I'd hoped, let's try something else".
posted by Lolie at 3:59 PM on June 30, 2009 [11 favorites]
Again, this isn't about some arbitrary concept of "fairness", it's about happiness. If you'd moved for your wife's work and you were miserable I would hope that you'd jointly reconsider whether the move was a viable option.
When a decision isn't working, reconsider it. You seem wedded to sticking to this one at all costs, even if it results in a bitter ex-wife. You seem utterly unwilling to say "that didn't work as well as I'd hoped, let's try something else".
posted by Lolie at 3:59 PM on June 30, 2009 [11 favorites]
There are few decisions I really regret, but letting myself get talked into that move is one of them.
Trailing spouse here. A lot of what others have written here rings true, especially this. She sacrificed a lot of what she wanted for you, to support you in your dreams, and you come off as "what's wrong with her that she's unhappy?" If she senses this attitude - and I bet she does - that's only going to further fuel her resentment.
My suspicion is that if I were to look for a new job, somewhere else, having only worked here for less than a year, all sorts of red flags would go up.
I won't write what I'm really thinking because it would get deleted, but really, what is more important, your wife or your career? I don't know if there are some sacred archivist vows, and I don't know what marriage vows you used, but I bet they didn't include "to love and to cherish, unless it would further my career."
In my case, it came down to a Very Serious Conversation in which he recognized how difficult it had been for me, I acknowledged that I never should have agreed to it, and we both agreed to find a place we can both enjoy. He said flat out he'd quit his job the next day if I asked him to. I didn't, because it would have done long-term damage, but we're working towards finding an ideal living situation for both of us, not taking turns appeasing the other.
posted by desjardins at 4:09 PM on June 30, 2009 [5 favorites]
Trailing spouse here. A lot of what others have written here rings true, especially this. She sacrificed a lot of what she wanted for you, to support you in your dreams, and you come off as "what's wrong with her that she's unhappy?" If she senses this attitude - and I bet she does - that's only going to further fuel her resentment.
My suspicion is that if I were to look for a new job, somewhere else, having only worked here for less than a year, all sorts of red flags would go up.
I won't write what I'm really thinking because it would get deleted, but really, what is more important, your wife or your career? I don't know if there are some sacred archivist vows, and I don't know what marriage vows you used, but I bet they didn't include "to love and to cherish, unless it would further my career."
In my case, it came down to a Very Serious Conversation in which he recognized how difficult it had been for me, I acknowledged that I never should have agreed to it, and we both agreed to find a place we can both enjoy. He said flat out he'd quit his job the next day if I asked him to. I didn't, because it would have done long-term damage, but we're working towards finding an ideal living situation for both of us, not taking turns appeasing the other.
posted by desjardins at 4:09 PM on June 30, 2009 [5 favorites]
I don't know what fields you both are in, but what if she got a really great job offer in a city. Would you be willing to go with her? Did she leave a job to go to Wyoming with you. Whose career is most important?
Well, I suppose the point of my asking for advice would be to find ways to prevent her from becoming a bitter person. I think this is possible, as I know there are some things about living here that she likes.
You are asking how to keep your wife from being bitter about sacrificing things she likes for your happiness and success? Maybe if you show her how very appreciative you are, and put a concrete time frame on leaving. 3 years is a long time to be miserable. Can you actively be looking for work elsewhere? Frankly, leaving the job sooner than planned will probably not raise any red flags in your industry. Most prospective employers will ask you why you are leaving your current job and you can be honest and say it's because of location.
posted by ishotjr at 4:12 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Well, I suppose the point of my asking for advice would be to find ways to prevent her from becoming a bitter person. I think this is possible, as I know there are some things about living here that she likes.
You are asking how to keep your wife from being bitter about sacrificing things she likes for your happiness and success? Maybe if you show her how very appreciative you are, and put a concrete time frame on leaving. 3 years is a long time to be miserable. Can you actively be looking for work elsewhere? Frankly, leaving the job sooner than planned will probably not raise any red flags in your industry. Most prospective employers will ask you why you are leaving your current job and you can be honest and say it's because of location.
posted by ishotjr at 4:12 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: If commuting won't work, why don't you both look for jobs only in places you would both be happy and when one of you gets a job, move there.
This is what we're doing. We sat down separately and made lists of cities and regions. We compared them and made a list of the overlaps between them. Those are the only cities/regions in which we look for work. We DO NOT CONSIDER jobs outside those regions, as tempting as the job itself may sound.
I suggest you two do this, and come up with a firm timeline. You want to stay there for a year? Ask her if she's willing to do that - it's only 10 more months - and then you PROMISE you will move elsewhere.
posted by desjardins at 4:15 PM on June 30, 2009
This is what we're doing. We sat down separately and made lists of cities and regions. We compared them and made a list of the overlaps between them. Those are the only cities/regions in which we look for work. We DO NOT CONSIDER jobs outside those regions, as tempting as the job itself may sound.
I suggest you two do this, and come up with a firm timeline. You want to stay there for a year? Ask her if she's willing to do that - it's only 10 more months - and then you PROMISE you will move elsewhere.
posted by desjardins at 4:15 PM on June 30, 2009
For a lot of people, most people, actually, having a career, or at least a job, is vital to their sense of self worth. She has no job, no friends, no support network in the area, it's not the sort of area that she wants to be in, it wasn't her choice to move, and instead of being sympathetic because she's seriously down and giving her some leeway and understanding that this move IS great for you and DOES suck for her, you're "frustrated" that she hasn't yet picked herself up, dusted herself off and found a volunteer position?
I've been in your wife's position, and it's just like everyone else's story so I won't get into it other than to say that the original promise was one year. That became two, then three. Along the way, our relationship fell apart. It's been 3 years, I moved when it was over and he's STILL there. He did offer to support me moving elsewhere, and I found that to be insulting and a reflection of my value in his life.
I agree with everyone else who says you should make a firm goal for how long you'll be there and stick to it. If I were her, I wouldn't be too confident about believing a promise to move because you already said that it's difficult to find jobs in your field, so what hope is there that you'll find another job in a city that she'd actually want to live in. Also, you have to stop seeing this as a great thing for you and her negative attitude is wrong and her problem. You have to stop being frustrated because she's not doing what YOU think she needs to do to be happy (volunteer).
It seems like the signal you're sending a message that your job is more important to you than she is, and you'll sacrifice your marriage for your career. What does it say to her when you tell her that she can move to another city, but you're staying put? If it were me, I'd feel like I was a lot further down on your priority scale than I should be. So, she followed you to Wyoming for your dream job, if she finds hers elsewhere, will you follow her? At what point?
posted by necessitas at 4:24 PM on June 30, 2009 [4 favorites]
I've been in your wife's position, and it's just like everyone else's story so I won't get into it other than to say that the original promise was one year. That became two, then three. Along the way, our relationship fell apart. It's been 3 years, I moved when it was over and he's STILL there. He did offer to support me moving elsewhere, and I found that to be insulting and a reflection of my value in his life.
I agree with everyone else who says you should make a firm goal for how long you'll be there and stick to it. If I were her, I wouldn't be too confident about believing a promise to move because you already said that it's difficult to find jobs in your field, so what hope is there that you'll find another job in a city that she'd actually want to live in. Also, you have to stop seeing this as a great thing for you and her negative attitude is wrong and her problem. You have to stop being frustrated because she's not doing what YOU think she needs to do to be happy (volunteer).
It seems like the signal you're sending a message that your job is more important to you than she is, and you'll sacrifice your marriage for your career. What does it say to her when you tell her that she can move to another city, but you're staying put? If it were me, I'd feel like I was a lot further down on your priority scale than I should be. So, she followed you to Wyoming for your dream job, if she finds hers elsewhere, will you follow her? At what point?
posted by necessitas at 4:24 PM on June 30, 2009 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I do a lot of travel to small rural cities for work, and I can imagine your wife's objections to where you live now.
Anyway, you keep saying in this thread that the decision to move to Wyoming was *your* decision, and was not really a shared decision. You need to acknowledge that.
In order to get around this impasse, you need to figure out what it will take to make your wife happy in Wyoming. She'll probably be happier if she finds a job in her field.
Why not make a deal with her: If she can't find a job within 12 months, you will relocate to a mutually acceptable location 12 months from that point (or two years from now).
As well, if your wife finds a job but still hates Wyoming, you should do a reality check 12 months from the time she gets her job, and agree to make a move if things aren't working out 12 months from then.
This gives you both time to get used to Wyoming, and to create a bulletproof exit strategy so that you won't be walking into the same situation again.
It also take 3 years to adjust to a move and integrate into a community. It took me three years after I returned to Canada from Japan. For the first two years or so, I hated every single minute here. Every single minute. (Un)fortunately, I didn't have the cash to pick up and move back to what I consider my home - Japan.
The trick is to get involved in the community somehow.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:26 PM on June 30, 2009
Anyway, you keep saying in this thread that the decision to move to Wyoming was *your* decision, and was not really a shared decision. You need to acknowledge that.
In order to get around this impasse, you need to figure out what it will take to make your wife happy in Wyoming. She'll probably be happier if she finds a job in her field.
Why not make a deal with her: If she can't find a job within 12 months, you will relocate to a mutually acceptable location 12 months from that point (or two years from now).
As well, if your wife finds a job but still hates Wyoming, you should do a reality check 12 months from the time she gets her job, and agree to make a move if things aren't working out 12 months from then.
This gives you both time to get used to Wyoming, and to create a bulletproof exit strategy so that you won't be walking into the same situation again.
It also take 3 years to adjust to a move and integrate into a community. It took me three years after I returned to Canada from Japan. For the first two years or so, I hated every single minute here. Every single minute. (Un)fortunately, I didn't have the cash to pick up and move back to what I consider my home - Japan.
The trick is to get involved in the community somehow.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:26 PM on June 30, 2009
I agree with most of the other answers, and want to say that your post and responses make you sound like a completely self-centered asshole. In this day and age, being an archivist is a difficult thing to make a viable career out of.
I'll answer your question anyway, as best as I can. We know absolutely nothing about your wife aside from the fact that she's bitter and miserable and wants to live in Chicago or Pittsburgh. What career does/did your wife have? Does she have any hobbies? What sort of things did she enjoy about living in Pittsburgh that she can't get where you are now? She needs your support, and that doesn't mean "telling" her to volunteer somewhere. That means sitting down with her every night after work and brainstorming ways, together, that she can be happier. Maybe she'd want to spend a few evenings after work together trying to make the best homemade Philly cheese steak/Italian ice/whatever thing she misses from back there, together. Maybe you can invite your work friends over and entertain them together so they can be her friends too. If she doesn't have a reason to get out of the house, make up a reason to do something fun together and take her out. Try to meet people she might like and introduce her to them to see if anything clicks.
There are a million things you could be doing to pull her out of this funk, and you haven't given evidence that you've attempted to do any of them, aside from telling her what you think she should do and telling her she can move away if she wants. Not only is she miserable where she's living, she's probably questioning the validity of the relationship and wondering why she agreed to move with you in the first place, since you apparently wouldn't mind if she decided to live without you in Chicago. I know I would be.
posted by booknerd at 4:38 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'll answer your question anyway, as best as I can. We know absolutely nothing about your wife aside from the fact that she's bitter and miserable and wants to live in Chicago or Pittsburgh. What career does/did your wife have? Does she have any hobbies? What sort of things did she enjoy about living in Pittsburgh that she can't get where you are now? She needs your support, and that doesn't mean "telling" her to volunteer somewhere. That means sitting down with her every night after work and brainstorming ways, together, that she can be happier. Maybe she'd want to spend a few evenings after work together trying to make the best homemade Philly cheese steak/Italian ice/whatever thing she misses from back there, together. Maybe you can invite your work friends over and entertain them together so they can be her friends too. If she doesn't have a reason to get out of the house, make up a reason to do something fun together and take her out. Try to meet people she might like and introduce her to them to see if anything clicks.
There are a million things you could be doing to pull her out of this funk, and you haven't given evidence that you've attempted to do any of them, aside from telling her what you think she should do and telling her she can move away if she wants. Not only is she miserable where she's living, she's probably questioning the validity of the relationship and wondering why she agreed to move with you in the first place, since you apparently wouldn't mind if she decided to live without you in Chicago. I know I would be.
posted by booknerd at 4:38 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
And please, don't decide to have children so that your wife has "something to do" for the next three years.
posted by Lolie at 5:02 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by Lolie at 5:02 PM on June 30, 2009
Response by poster: Okay, first of all, plenty of people make very viable careers out of archiving. Perhaps you are ignorant of the field and don't realize this.
Also, we've both made plenty of attempts to do things we both enjoy, such as hiking, farming, etc. And these things have made both of us happy. Perhaps I didn't adequately communicate this.
If I was so self-centered, I wouldn't have bothered to ask this question to begin with. I'm willing to admit defeat when it's absolutely clear that my wife will not be happy here. This has not happened yet. That is why I asked this question, so I can prevent her from being miserable.
While I admit taking a job out here wasn't the wisest choice in consideration of her feelings and desires, I won't say it was completely selfish. I really thought (and think) that she would be happy out here. That's why I accepted. Not to make her unhappy.
We both thought there would be more opportunities out here for her. However, she has not had good luck yet, although there are prospects for her in her field.
This has been helpful for both of us. Thanks for the advice.
posted by elder18 at 5:04 PM on June 30, 2009
Also, we've both made plenty of attempts to do things we both enjoy, such as hiking, farming, etc. And these things have made both of us happy. Perhaps I didn't adequately communicate this.
If I was so self-centered, I wouldn't have bothered to ask this question to begin with. I'm willing to admit defeat when it's absolutely clear that my wife will not be happy here. This has not happened yet. That is why I asked this question, so I can prevent her from being miserable.
While I admit taking a job out here wasn't the wisest choice in consideration of her feelings and desires, I won't say it was completely selfish. I really thought (and think) that she would be happy out here. That's why I accepted. Not to make her unhappy.
We both thought there would be more opportunities out here for her. However, she has not had good luck yet, although there are prospects for her in her field.
This has been helpful for both of us. Thanks for the advice.
posted by elder18 at 5:04 PM on June 30, 2009
Well, small town Wyoming has to be a pretty big culture shock from Pittsburgh.
Contrary to the doom and gloom in some of the replies, it seems to me that your wife just needs more time to get adjusted.
Has your wife lived outside the East at all? Is she particularly family oriented? Some folks just take time to get used to new surroundings.
And yes, like some of the replies above, some people never do, however less than 6 months seems too soon to write off the whole move.
You say that there are things about the town that she likes, well then, that means it's not all bad.
Can you find things that are similar/related?
Are there specific things about the old place that she particularly enjoyed? Can you find those where you are?
How about online communities? Will they tide her over until you move on in a few years?
Try not to reinforce her negative opinions. While venting is good, continual complaining is bad. Maybe find a few things you both agree are horrible about the place and use those as your touchstones or shorthand for a long drawn out bitchfest.
You could also encourage her to try a new activity, one she wasn't able to do in Pittsburgh. Horseback riding? Skiing? Ranching? There has to be something.
posted by madajb at 5:05 PM on June 30, 2009
Contrary to the doom and gloom in some of the replies, it seems to me that your wife just needs more time to get adjusted.
Has your wife lived outside the East at all? Is she particularly family oriented? Some folks just take time to get used to new surroundings.
And yes, like some of the replies above, some people never do, however less than 6 months seems too soon to write off the whole move.
You say that there are things about the town that she likes, well then, that means it's not all bad.
Can you find things that are similar/related?
Are there specific things about the old place that she particularly enjoyed? Can you find those where you are?
How about online communities? Will they tide her over until you move on in a few years?
Try not to reinforce her negative opinions. While venting is good, continual complaining is bad. Maybe find a few things you both agree are horrible about the place and use those as your touchstones or shorthand for a long drawn out bitchfest.
You could also encourage her to try a new activity, one she wasn't able to do in Pittsburgh. Horseback riding? Skiing? Ranching? There has to be something.
posted by madajb at 5:05 PM on June 30, 2009
My cautionary tale:
My mother has unhappily followed my father from one small rural area to another for 25 years. They love each other dearly, but she's been unhappy for their entire relationship.
She's depressed. She's incredibly unhealthy--years of lying around the house, bored, devouring books and movies have taken their toll. She considered leaving my dad around year 20, when they moved to the Black Hills of South Dakota, and I think the only thing that stopped her was having my youngest brother in the house and no real work history for the past two decades.
My dad has finally agreed to move to an urban area in two years. In the meantime, she's on antidepression medication and still dreams of a little apartment in the city. She's fortunately not a bitter person, but my siblings and I still can't understand why our father (who is otherwise a very good man) would do this to her for so long. Nobody can. It's the bad part of their otherwise lovely marriage.
...End cautionary tale.
I agree with everybody else who mentioned it: set an end date. That will make her feel much, much better.
Also, I assume you're a professor, since you mentioned the college town. If so, I sympathize--most of my academic friends are forced to move to small towns to get jobs. But why are you stuck in Wyoming for 'at least a few years'? You can keep sending your resume around to better colleges while you're teaching, right? This will also make her happier, I'd warrant.
If she gets a job in Chicago, can you both move there sooner? If so, encourage her to apply. This will also make her feel much better.
As a city person who grew up on a farm, I heartily sympathize with your wife. The bad part of living in a small town is that there isn't much to do and you'll be reminded of this every. single. day. My mom travels as much as they can afford, which helps her out a lot. I'd encourage your wife to travel as much as possible, too. It'll remind her that there's a great big fun world out there and she won't be missing out on it forever.
posted by timoni at 5:06 PM on June 30, 2009
My mother has unhappily followed my father from one small rural area to another for 25 years. They love each other dearly, but she's been unhappy for their entire relationship.
She's depressed. She's incredibly unhealthy--years of lying around the house, bored, devouring books and movies have taken their toll. She considered leaving my dad around year 20, when they moved to the Black Hills of South Dakota, and I think the only thing that stopped her was having my youngest brother in the house and no real work history for the past two decades.
My dad has finally agreed to move to an urban area in two years. In the meantime, she's on antidepression medication and still dreams of a little apartment in the city. She's fortunately not a bitter person, but my siblings and I still can't understand why our father (who is otherwise a very good man) would do this to her for so long. Nobody can. It's the bad part of their otherwise lovely marriage.
...End cautionary tale.
I agree with everybody else who mentioned it: set an end date. That will make her feel much, much better.
Also, I assume you're a professor, since you mentioned the college town. If so, I sympathize--most of my academic friends are forced to move to small towns to get jobs. But why are you stuck in Wyoming for 'at least a few years'? You can keep sending your resume around to better colleges while you're teaching, right? This will also make her happier, I'd warrant.
If she gets a job in Chicago, can you both move there sooner? If so, encourage her to apply. This will also make her feel much better.
As a city person who grew up on a farm, I heartily sympathize with your wife. The bad part of living in a small town is that there isn't much to do and you'll be reminded of this every. single. day. My mom travels as much as they can afford, which helps her out a lot. I'd encourage your wife to travel as much as possible, too. It'll remind her that there's a great big fun world out there and she won't be missing out on it forever.
posted by timoni at 5:06 PM on June 30, 2009
Best answer: I think that in several respects we have a pretty fair relationship. If she had gotten a good job in Chicago, I would have moved there with her, despite my reservations. I just happened to get this job, and thought (and think) that we could be happy here, even if it wasn't ideal for both of us. If I had done so, and I didn't have a job and was miserable, then wouldn't I be in the same position she is now?
I don't think you're self-centered, but I do think you're either failing or refusing to understand the emotional toll this all necessarily takes. And at the same time, it sounds as if your wife hasn't found a way to express this, herself. Acknowledging and accommodating that emotional aspect is critical to making this type of transition. Even if it made a great deal of sense for you to take this Wyoming job and for the two of you to move together, that doesn't make the decision "fair." Your task in this situation is not to come up with the most coldly equitable arrangement, your goal is not a tit-for-tat "fairness," but rather to make a life together with your wife. It sounds like you've lost sight of this (or never realized it in the first place).
It sounds as if you've each taken up your own defensive positions: you focus on the "fairness" issue while she focuses on her dislike for Wyoming. It's not getting you anywhere. You need to find a way to set aside your insistence that this is fair, and that it's especially fair since you're willing to move "when the time is right"--instead, understand that it may not be fair and you need to talk about it anyway (I personally think that there's something inherently unfair about careers in an academic/non-academic couple's marriage, but I'm ok with that). At the same time, your wife needs to find a way to talk about it without resorting to passive aggressive stuff like checking rent prices in Chicago while also saying she'd be unwilling to move away from you.
If your university has a Family/Psychology Center, I'd strongly recommend sitting down with a therapist to get yourselves on track as you re-start the conversation.
posted by Meg_Murry at 5:12 PM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
I don't think you're self-centered, but I do think you're either failing or refusing to understand the emotional toll this all necessarily takes. And at the same time, it sounds as if your wife hasn't found a way to express this, herself. Acknowledging and accommodating that emotional aspect is critical to making this type of transition. Even if it made a great deal of sense for you to take this Wyoming job and for the two of you to move together, that doesn't make the decision "fair." Your task in this situation is not to come up with the most coldly equitable arrangement, your goal is not a tit-for-tat "fairness," but rather to make a life together with your wife. It sounds like you've lost sight of this (or never realized it in the first place).
It sounds as if you've each taken up your own defensive positions: you focus on the "fairness" issue while she focuses on her dislike for Wyoming. It's not getting you anywhere. You need to find a way to set aside your insistence that this is fair, and that it's especially fair since you're willing to move "when the time is right"--instead, understand that it may not be fair and you need to talk about it anyway (I personally think that there's something inherently unfair about careers in an academic/non-academic couple's marriage, but I'm ok with that). At the same time, your wife needs to find a way to talk about it without resorting to passive aggressive stuff like checking rent prices in Chicago while also saying she'd be unwilling to move away from you.
If your university has a Family/Psychology Center, I'd strongly recommend sitting down with a therapist to get yourselves on track as you re-start the conversation.
posted by Meg_Murry at 5:12 PM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for most of the advice we've (my wife has been following along) gotten on here.
We've semi-agreed to wait and see how things are in a year. If she's still unhappy, we're going to move to Fort Collins, which has more opportunities for her and I can still keep my job.
And then, after another year or two, we'll move to Chicago, or another mutually acceptable location. I think I'm more a victim of optimism than a selfish person, but being selfish certainly played into the decision to come out here. I can tell some of you realize this.
If anyone has more advice, please feel free to give it up.
posted by elder18 at 5:19 PM on June 30, 2009
We've semi-agreed to wait and see how things are in a year. If she's still unhappy, we're going to move to Fort Collins, which has more opportunities for her and I can still keep my job.
And then, after another year or two, we'll move to Chicago, or another mutually acceptable location. I think I'm more a victim of optimism than a selfish person, but being selfish certainly played into the decision to come out here. I can tell some of you realize this.
If anyone has more advice, please feel free to give it up.
posted by elder18 at 5:19 PM on June 30, 2009
Also, we've both made plenty of attempts to do things we both enjoy, such as hiking, farming, etc. And these things have made both of us happy. Perhaps I didn't adequately communicate this.
That's just basic maintenance stuff in any relationship. This is a situation which requires heroic efforts.
Did you actually research opportunities in your wife's field before moving? Why do you still think that she will be happy out there (maybe she will, but I sure as heck wouldn't assume it if you're actually talking about a LDR as a possible solution)?
Is your wife also in academia? If not, she's likely to feel even more isolated if her current life revolves around your profession and the majority of people with whom she's coming in contact are academics of some kind. Academics can often come across as dismissive of more mundane concerns, whether they intend to or not, and you are coming across like that here - it's possible that in real life, with someone you interact with constantly you're coming across as belligerently so.
I feel like I'm watching a Dr Phil episode where someone drags their spouse along hoping Dr Phil will tell the spouse they're "wrong" - only to spend the entire show telling Dr Phil why he's wrong for supporting the spouse's viewpoint. It's sounding like you'd rather be "right" than have your wife be happy. If that's the case, then only a change in your attitude will solve the problem - token gestures of "support" won't cut it.
I'm still not getting why it is so difficult for you to contemplate saying "this isn't working the way I thought it would honey, let's give it 100% for the next six months and if we still can't make a go of it we'll actively start the relocation process". It's not going to be the first major decision you made which didn't pan out, and there's no real reason it should be more than a "woops, that wasn't such a great idea after all".
posted by Lolie at 5:29 PM on June 30, 2009
That's just basic maintenance stuff in any relationship. This is a situation which requires heroic efforts.
Did you actually research opportunities in your wife's field before moving? Why do you still think that she will be happy out there (maybe she will, but I sure as heck wouldn't assume it if you're actually talking about a LDR as a possible solution)?
Is your wife also in academia? If not, she's likely to feel even more isolated if her current life revolves around your profession and the majority of people with whom she's coming in contact are academics of some kind. Academics can often come across as dismissive of more mundane concerns, whether they intend to or not, and you are coming across like that here - it's possible that in real life, with someone you interact with constantly you're coming across as belligerently so.
I feel like I'm watching a Dr Phil episode where someone drags their spouse along hoping Dr Phil will tell the spouse they're "wrong" - only to spend the entire show telling Dr Phil why he's wrong for supporting the spouse's viewpoint. It's sounding like you'd rather be "right" than have your wife be happy. If that's the case, then only a change in your attitude will solve the problem - token gestures of "support" won't cut it.
I'm still not getting why it is so difficult for you to contemplate saying "this isn't working the way I thought it would honey, let's give it 100% for the next six months and if we still can't make a go of it we'll actively start the relocation process". It's not going to be the first major decision you made which didn't pan out, and there's no real reason it should be more than a "woops, that wasn't such a great idea after all".
posted by Lolie at 5:29 PM on June 30, 2009
Why would you wait an entire year to move to Fort Collins, if it would immediately improve the quality of your wife's life? Start looking now.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:30 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:30 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
f she's not allergic to dogs, and she likes dogs, maybe getting a dog would help?
posted by anniecat at 5:30 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by anniecat at 5:30 PM on June 30, 2009
anniecat, they already have a new kitten, I think the OP said.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:33 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:33 PM on June 30, 2009
Our posts over-lapped, so disregard my last one. I hope you'll be willing to review this new agreement if the need arises.
posted by Lolie at 5:38 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by Lolie at 5:38 PM on June 30, 2009
Response by poster: Semi-agreed, in that we've not entirely committed to it, but agreed that it might be a good idea if we need it.
posted by elder18 at 5:41 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by elder18 at 5:41 PM on June 30, 2009
Best answer: Your post, and your replies, do not explicitly state this (despite it having been raised repeatedly), but it certainly sounds like you decided on your own that you were going to take this job. Other posters have expressed their disapproval and suggested that unilaterally deciding whether both partners in a marriage are about to move to a new place is a bad practice. I don't see you reacting to this very much (other than to defensively talk about fairness, which others have noted is not really the point).
Let me try to put this in the terms that interest you.
Suppose you come to your wife and say, "wife, we're moving. I took a job in Wyoming." What can she do? She can only react to your decision. This resembles the relationship between a parent and a child, as has been pointed out above. I think it's interesting that you talk about fairness, by the way. Fairness is really important in the parent-child context because children have very few ways of controlling or manipulating their parents, and appeals to fairness are among the more powerful of their tools.
Suppose, however, you come to your wife and say, "wife, I have been offered a job in Wyoming. I want to take this job for reasons x, y, and z. I know you prefer Chicago, but I think we could accommodate you in ways a, b, and c. What do you think? What can I do to make this move acceptable for you?" Now, assuming she is willing to compromise and move, she has ownership over that decision. It doesn't even have to be "fair" as long as it's something she is doing, freely, for you. It's much, much, much easier to accept a decision you make yourself than to accept someone else's authority (for many people, at least). And US culture is particularly individualistic, placing enormous value on personal autonomy and freedom.
So, if you want your wife to be happy, I suggest that you never unilaterally make a decision of this magnitude and then attempt to cajole her, soothe her, compromise after the fact, comfort her, bribe her with candy, massage her, or anything else you might think of. The only thing you should be doing is asking her. Otherwise, you're adding several flavors of resentment to an already difficult situation.
posted by prefpara at 5:44 PM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
Let me try to put this in the terms that interest you.
Suppose you come to your wife and say, "wife, we're moving. I took a job in Wyoming." What can she do? She can only react to your decision. This resembles the relationship between a parent and a child, as has been pointed out above. I think it's interesting that you talk about fairness, by the way. Fairness is really important in the parent-child context because children have very few ways of controlling or manipulating their parents, and appeals to fairness are among the more powerful of their tools.
Suppose, however, you come to your wife and say, "wife, I have been offered a job in Wyoming. I want to take this job for reasons x, y, and z. I know you prefer Chicago, but I think we could accommodate you in ways a, b, and c. What do you think? What can I do to make this move acceptable for you?" Now, assuming she is willing to compromise and move, she has ownership over that decision. It doesn't even have to be "fair" as long as it's something she is doing, freely, for you. It's much, much, much easier to accept a decision you make yourself than to accept someone else's authority (for many people, at least). And US culture is particularly individualistic, placing enormous value on personal autonomy and freedom.
So, if you want your wife to be happy, I suggest that you never unilaterally make a decision of this magnitude and then attempt to cajole her, soothe her, compromise after the fact, comfort her, bribe her with candy, massage her, or anything else you might think of. The only thing you should be doing is asking her. Otherwise, you're adding several flavors of resentment to an already difficult situation.
posted by prefpara at 5:44 PM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
Best answer: If I was so self-centered, I wouldn't have bothered to ask this question to begin with.
If your communication was as good as you say it is, you may not have NEEDED to ask this question to begin with.
...Okay, that was a bit harsh, perhaps. But I've just noticed that you are saying "I thought she'd land on her feet" and "I thought she'd like hiking/fishing/whatevering", instead of saying "she said she'd land on her feet" and "she said she'd like hiking/fishing/whatevering". Which tells me that for whatever reason, you don't know whether she thought she'd land on her feet -- which makes me suspect that that conversation either didn't happen, or that there was a serious disconnect when it did happen.
Mind you, there could be a lot of reasons for this -- it's not all because you're self-centered or because she's holding her tongue when she shouldn't, or whatever. These situations rarely are all one person's "fault", and sometimes it isn't a case of "fault" at all. It could have been something as simple as you were so omigodthisissoawesomelygreatholycowwhee" excited about the opportunity, you were too caught up in it to catch some of the unconscious, subtle things she maybe said -- and she may also have been so touched by how excited you are that she may have bit back some of the voices in her head telling her "NO, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD TELL HIM YOU CAN'T DO THIS" and she instead maybe wanted to try talking herself into it for your sake. It could have been something this sincere, though misguided.
But it still seems like, for whatever reason, there is some kind of disconnect going on in your converations about this issue, and for some reason you're not seeing that (I'd also gently point out that, when others have implied the same in here, you've sounded a bit defensive, which also has me concerned). I'd take a closer look at that -- sorting that out, sorting out what you each REALLY think about a lot of these issues, and understanding exactly what the other person REALLY thinks. I'm not convinced that you each know the full picture about that right now.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:46 PM on June 30, 2009 [4 favorites]
If your communication was as good as you say it is, you may not have NEEDED to ask this question to begin with.
...Okay, that was a bit harsh, perhaps. But I've just noticed that you are saying "I thought she'd land on her feet" and "I thought she'd like hiking/fishing/whatevering", instead of saying "she said she'd land on her feet" and "she said she'd like hiking/fishing/whatevering". Which tells me that for whatever reason, you don't know whether she thought she'd land on her feet -- which makes me suspect that that conversation either didn't happen, or that there was a serious disconnect when it did happen.
Mind you, there could be a lot of reasons for this -- it's not all because you're self-centered or because she's holding her tongue when she shouldn't, or whatever. These situations rarely are all one person's "fault", and sometimes it isn't a case of "fault" at all. It could have been something as simple as you were so omigodthisissoawesomelygreatholycowwhee" excited about the opportunity, you were too caught up in it to catch some of the unconscious, subtle things she maybe said -- and she may also have been so touched by how excited you are that she may have bit back some of the voices in her head telling her "NO, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD TELL HIM YOU CAN'T DO THIS" and she instead maybe wanted to try talking herself into it for your sake. It could have been something this sincere, though misguided.
But it still seems like, for whatever reason, there is some kind of disconnect going on in your converations about this issue, and for some reason you're not seeing that (I'd also gently point out that, when others have implied the same in here, you've sounded a bit defensive, which also has me concerned). I'd take a closer look at that -- sorting that out, sorting out what you each REALLY think about a lot of these issues, and understanding exactly what the other person REALLY thinks. I'm not convinced that you each know the full picture about that right now.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:46 PM on June 30, 2009 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I followed my husband from Southern California to the South and it was a huge adjustment. I moved with a job, but the people I worked with as a middle-school teacher were way, way different than anyone I had ever met in San Diego or Los Angeles. I felt like I had gone back in time. To give you an idea of how out of my element I was, on my first day of teaching, the other teachers came into my classroom to form a prayer circle. When I said that I was a non-practicing Jew, they said that was fine and that Jesus would still love me.
What made the biggest difference for me was meeting other people who were not locals and taking classes at the local university. Does your wife like to read? Run? Hike? There has to be a book club, running group, etc. she can join. Moving to Ft. Collins sounds like a good compromise as well.
posted by JuliaKM at 5:51 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
What made the biggest difference for me was meeting other people who were not locals and taking classes at the local university. Does your wife like to read? Run? Hike? There has to be a book club, running group, etc. she can join. Moving to Ft. Collins sounds like a good compromise as well.
posted by JuliaKM at 5:51 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
First off, elder, I don't think you're an asshole. A former partner of mine moved across the country to live with me in my hometown. Lucky for me, he loved it. But what if he hadn't? I wonder sometimes. That said, I would be friggin' miserable living in a place I didn't like and times that by a gazillion if I were unemployed while my partner went to work everyday. But you probably told yourself "She'll get used to it" or better, "She'll grow to like it." But it hasn't worked out that way.
However - she has only been there for two months! That's barely enough time to unpack your shit, let alone find a job, make new friends, and settle in.
posted by futureisunwritten at 5:58 PM on June 30, 2009
However - she has only been there for two months! That's barely enough time to unpack your shit, let alone find a job, make new friends, and settle in.
posted by futureisunwritten at 5:58 PM on June 30, 2009
I agreed (after a year of urging) to move to Los Angeles because my wife wanted to. I hated it from day one, but agreed (in part) because she'd promised we could reassess in two years. When two years came and went and I brought it up, she insisted she'd never made such a promise.
It's been almost ten years now, and I still hate it here in some ways, but I've mostly made peace with it. I've settled in, have a great job, lots of friends, and things to do that I enjoy. Some of the places I used to want to move back to, I wouldn't if I had the choice, because there are actually some things about Los Angeles that I like. Weather being a big one, although I still hate how bright it is.
Some days, like today, it's cloudy out, and cool, and breezy, and I like it. But ultimately I'll never love it, not like I used to love where I lived before (crappy weather and all), because in the back of my head I know this wasn't my choice; it was a sacrifice I made for someone I love who I feel did not fulfill a promise to me, and who now doesn't want to move because we're settled here (even though her original reason for wanting to be here is no longer part of our lives.)
In case that's a bit vague, what I'm saying is this: I'll never love it, because it wasn't my choice. It wasn't her choice to move there with you, even though she ultimately agreed to it -- except that she chose to sacrifice. I suggest you tell her that you realize that, and make your plans to move away in two years concrete. Set some dates. Make real plans. Let her know you're happy and realize she isn't, so you're grateful she's willing to stick with it, you support her desire to leave town, and ultimately whether you leave town or not is up to her because she's the one who suffers the most from the situation as it is.
Good luck.
posted by davejay at 6:02 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
It's been almost ten years now, and I still hate it here in some ways, but I've mostly made peace with it. I've settled in, have a great job, lots of friends, and things to do that I enjoy. Some of the places I used to want to move back to, I wouldn't if I had the choice, because there are actually some things about Los Angeles that I like. Weather being a big one, although I still hate how bright it is.
Some days, like today, it's cloudy out, and cool, and breezy, and I like it. But ultimately I'll never love it, not like I used to love where I lived before (crappy weather and all), because in the back of my head I know this wasn't my choice; it was a sacrifice I made for someone I love who I feel did not fulfill a promise to me, and who now doesn't want to move because we're settled here (even though her original reason for wanting to be here is no longer part of our lives.)
In case that's a bit vague, what I'm saying is this: I'll never love it, because it wasn't my choice. It wasn't her choice to move there with you, even though she ultimately agreed to it -- except that she chose to sacrifice. I suggest you tell her that you realize that, and make your plans to move away in two years concrete. Set some dates. Make real plans. Let her know you're happy and realize she isn't, so you're grateful she's willing to stick with it, you support her desire to leave town, and ultimately whether you leave town or not is up to her because she's the one who suffers the most from the situation as it is.
Good luck.
posted by davejay at 6:02 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I think that the most important thing is to concentrate on seeing if she can find a job that she enjoys. While she may well still want to move sooner than you do if she lands a good job, there is something about having 40 hours of your week accounted for that can make you feel much less angry and frustrated about your location.
Unfortunately, being unemployed and living somewhere you do not like is depressing, and people who are feeling depressed are often not going to be as proactive as you would like them to be. It is much easier to make suggestions about what people should do in terms of volunteering/applying for jobs/starting hobbies then it is to actually do these things when you are feeling lousy. Given that you have the better situation here, it is probably best to remind yourself of this whenever you start feeling frustrated by what you see as her lack of initiative. I sympathize with both of you on this one--it is hard to be on either end of this situation.
In terms of concerns about it looking bad if you leave the job after having worked there only a short time, I think this really only matters if it emerges as a pattern. I would suggest giving it up to a year, and if she still hates it, and is having no luck with finding work in her chosen field, then you could both start applying to jobs in places that she would like better. If one of you gets offered a position then fantastic, if not then at least she knows that you are willing to move once either of you get offered a position. If you guys have agreed to prioritize your career for the time being then you could be the only one sending out applications and she could look for a job once she is in the new place--unemployment is always unfun but less so when you like the place you are in.
posted by pie_seven at 6:20 PM on June 30, 2009
Unfortunately, being unemployed and living somewhere you do not like is depressing, and people who are feeling depressed are often not going to be as proactive as you would like them to be. It is much easier to make suggestions about what people should do in terms of volunteering/applying for jobs/starting hobbies then it is to actually do these things when you are feeling lousy. Given that you have the better situation here, it is probably best to remind yourself of this whenever you start feeling frustrated by what you see as her lack of initiative. I sympathize with both of you on this one--it is hard to be on either end of this situation.
In terms of concerns about it looking bad if you leave the job after having worked there only a short time, I think this really only matters if it emerges as a pattern. I would suggest giving it up to a year, and if she still hates it, and is having no luck with finding work in her chosen field, then you could both start applying to jobs in places that she would like better. If one of you gets offered a position then fantastic, if not then at least she knows that you are willing to move once either of you get offered a position. If you guys have agreed to prioritize your career for the time being then you could be the only one sending out applications and she could look for a job once she is in the new place--unemployment is always unfun but less so when you like the place you are in.
posted by pie_seven at 6:20 PM on June 30, 2009
Response by poster: There have been several really good answers which have helped us out. It's given both of us a fresh perspective. Thanks so much.
posted by elder18 at 6:25 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by elder18 at 6:25 PM on June 30, 2009
Again, what about moving to Ft. Collins as a compromise? You commute an hour each way, and she gets a town that's bigger and more cosmopolitan than Laramie.
posted by scody at 3:23 PM on June 30 [+] [!]
My son lives in Cheyenne and is in the Air Force. I think some folks in his shoes live in Ft. Collins and commute....but do be aware that during severe winter weather the interstates can close. So do factor that in if you decide to do the commute thing.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:29 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by scody at 3:23 PM on June 30 [+] [!]
My son lives in Cheyenne and is in the Air Force. I think some folks in his shoes live in Ft. Collins and commute....but do be aware that during severe winter weather the interstates can close. So do factor that in if you decide to do the commute thing.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:29 PM on June 30, 2009
Wow... lots of jumping on the OP in this thread and, it seems to me, lots of jumping to conclusions.
Elder, I'd recommend getting your wife into situations where you and she can make friends in your new community. Perhaps a co-worker of yours could help with this (or the co-worker's spouse).
Have you or your wife checked Meetup.com to see if there are any groups she might want to join?
I've just ended a six-month run of unemployment and can attest that not having work sucks. There's no schedule, no reason to get up and get showered/dressed/etc. I'd pin quite a bit of your wife's unhappiness on her lack of employment.
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 6:31 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Elder, I'd recommend getting your wife into situations where you and she can make friends in your new community. Perhaps a co-worker of yours could help with this (or the co-worker's spouse).
Have you or your wife checked Meetup.com to see if there are any groups she might want to join?
I've just ended a six-month run of unemployment and can attest that not having work sucks. There's no schedule, no reason to get up and get showered/dressed/etc. I'd pin quite a bit of your wife's unhappiness on her lack of employment.
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 6:31 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the possibility of living apart. I know you think that both of you would be unhappy if your wife moved away, but you might be surprised. I certainly was.
My husband moved to another state to take a job there, and I stayed here for a whole bunch of reasons. He decided, pretty much unilaterally, that he was going to take that job come hell or high water, and I felt left out, dismissed, and trivialized. I resented the hell out of his decision but I was in a position to stay in the place I loved, so I did. After a few weeks of loneliness and rancor, I realized that I actually kinda liked being on my own again. And a little later, there was no "kinda" about it. Now, a phone conversation or weekend visit is a treat to look forward to, and I feel like Hubby and I actually enjoy each other more than we did when we lived together. Hubby feels the same way too. We're both happier, our marriage is stronger, and our shared time together is more valuable than when we lived in the same house. *shrug* Sometimes life is surprising that way.
So I'd suggest that your wife move to Chicago and look for a job. If she doesn't find anything in a few months and is unhappy by herself, she can move back with you and maybe decide that Laramie ain't so bad after all. If she's happy, you might find that a long-distance relationship is a lot nicer than you expected. Good luck!
posted by Quietgal at 7:18 PM on June 30, 2009
My husband moved to another state to take a job there, and I stayed here for a whole bunch of reasons. He decided, pretty much unilaterally, that he was going to take that job come hell or high water, and I felt left out, dismissed, and trivialized. I resented the hell out of his decision but I was in a position to stay in the place I loved, so I did. After a few weeks of loneliness and rancor, I realized that I actually kinda liked being on my own again. And a little later, there was no "kinda" about it. Now, a phone conversation or weekend visit is a treat to look forward to, and I feel like Hubby and I actually enjoy each other more than we did when we lived together. Hubby feels the same way too. We're both happier, our marriage is stronger, and our shared time together is more valuable than when we lived in the same house. *shrug* Sometimes life is surprising that way.
So I'd suggest that your wife move to Chicago and look for a job. If she doesn't find anything in a few months and is unhappy by herself, she can move back with you and maybe decide that Laramie ain't so bad after all. If she's happy, you might find that a long-distance relationship is a lot nicer than you expected. Good luck!
posted by Quietgal at 7:18 PM on June 30, 2009
There's some good advice here on what you can DO. I hope you take the advice to plan a solid exit strategy. But two months is not a long time and if she's not been able to find a job or a good place for herself and her interests, she's going to be unhappy. LET HER BE. Let her just whine and complain and mope, if that's what she needs to do. You two can go on hikes and play with the cat and check out your surroundings and that's great - keep doing that. But what I read here is an undercurrent of peeve because she's "harshed your mellow" about what is, for you and only you, a good new situation. You deserve to be happy about that. She can probably tell. I'll bet that's as annoying as fuck. And trying to give her activities and fix the problem would make me want to punch you in the face. Not because you're a bad person and not because you don't deserve to be happy but sometimes when someone is unhappy it can compound it to have someone else try to fix it for you when it is fundamentally unfixable. So let her complain and wallow if that's what she needs to do to find her own way. You got a lot of benefits in this move and if the price you have to pay is to let her be cranky for a while that seems a small price.
posted by marylynn at 7:27 PM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by marylynn at 7:27 PM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
My suspicion is that if I were to look for a new job, somewhere else, having only worked here for less than a year, all sorts of red flags would go up.
What exactly do you mean by this? That it'd be hard to find another job elsewhere, or that the very act of applying would somehow jeopardize future opportunities because you'd make a name for yourself as the guy who can't stay put? Because if it's just that you don't think you'll have a very good chance, well, it doesn't hurt to try some applications anyway (either now, or starting in a few months after she spends another couple months trying to adjust), and it'd be a sign of good faith to your wife. It seems like it isn't really fair to say "It's hopeless that'll I'd get a job there so I'm not going to bother trying and hence we can't move." (Especially if-- and I'm not saying this is necessarily true, but I get the sense it could be true-- you are using that because it's easier and more comfortable than saying/admitting directly "I don't want to move anytime soon; I know you're unhappy, but that doesn't bother me enough to outweigh my happiness here, especially because you ought to just cheer up anyway!")
posted by EmilyClimbs at 9:45 PM on June 30, 2009
What exactly do you mean by this? That it'd be hard to find another job elsewhere, or that the very act of applying would somehow jeopardize future opportunities because you'd make a name for yourself as the guy who can't stay put? Because if it's just that you don't think you'll have a very good chance, well, it doesn't hurt to try some applications anyway (either now, or starting in a few months after she spends another couple months trying to adjust), and it'd be a sign of good faith to your wife. It seems like it isn't really fair to say "It's hopeless that'll I'd get a job there so I'm not going to bother trying and hence we can't move." (Especially if-- and I'm not saying this is necessarily true, but I get the sense it could be true-- you are using that because it's easier and more comfortable than saying/admitting directly "I don't want to move anytime soon; I know you're unhappy, but that doesn't bother me enough to outweigh my happiness here, especially because you ought to just cheer up anyway!")
posted by EmilyClimbs at 9:45 PM on June 30, 2009
Having moved from a city of 4.5 million to an industrial town with 130,000, I can tell you it's not easy. People where I moved didn't fit any of the stereotypes that city people think of when they think of living in a smaller place. It certainly wasn't friendly even though we had wonderful mostly older neighbours. Most of the people had know each other since birth and weren't open to strangers. I had people drive by in cars and laugh at me standing at the commuter stop because I was dressed in a suit for going to work in the city. There were no jobs in my field in that place, not even close. All the good jobs went to men. It's was very 50s there. A lot of the women dressed like Al Bundy's wife, an image I didn't want my DDs to think was OK. The teacher taught my grade 1er a racist song. The grade 3 dance teacher taught jazz dance which, even to my liberal eye, looked a whole lot like bumps and grinds. It was one shock after another. I was very disappointed as it was my DH's home town and I was quite prepared to meet and greet and make friends everywhere. Even volunteering at the church did nothing. I baked and sewed and volunteered for everything I could and went to picnics all for naught. Ditto the brownies and guides. I was an outsider and that was that. Then I got sick and couldn't get adequate care even though there is a teaching hospital and university there. I told DH move me back or bury me there. We moved back to the city after 7 long years, back to where you can order a coffee and get a smile, back to where people you don't know say 'Hi' when you pass them on the street and back to where there are decent doctors.
The point: well, it might not be you wife's fault that she hasn't found a circle of friends or a job yet. Some places are just not that welcoming and how many jobs are there for her? I feel sympathy for her as she's without job, friends, daily routine, familiar places and faces and prospects. Put youself in her place for a minute and think of how you would feel. It looks to me like the present situation is untenable and, together, you have to plan an alternative.
posted by x46 at 10:03 PM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
The point: well, it might not be you wife's fault that she hasn't found a circle of friends or a job yet. Some places are just not that welcoming and how many jobs are there for her? I feel sympathy for her as she's without job, friends, daily routine, familiar places and faces and prospects. Put youself in her place for a minute and think of how you would feel. It looks to me like the present situation is untenable and, together, you have to plan an alternative.
posted by x46 at 10:03 PM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
That is why I asked this question, so I can prevent her from being miserable.
No matter what you do, you personally cannot prevent her from being miserable in this situation. What I'm getting from this is that you are thinking in terms of doing FOR her, rather than doing WITH her. I don't really get the feeling that you are providing her with the support that she really needs right now. It's true that it's only been a few months, and that more time might help. What seems to me that would really help, regardless of where you two end up, is for you start showing that you really value her, and that you also recognize and appreciate the sacrifice that she is making for you. You are both already in WY, and you have to deal with the situation that is in front of you. Why don't you find out what it is that she wants you to do to help her not be miserable? Besides moving, you can't FIX the situation, but you can try to make it the best possible. It's up to you to figure out how to make your wife understand that you cherish her and that you want to be there for her, on HER terms and not yours. As other people mentioned, this should be a partnership, but it is coming across as something else.
I wish you two the best getting this sorted out.
posted by iliketolaughalot at 10:15 PM on June 30, 2009
No matter what you do, you personally cannot prevent her from being miserable in this situation. What I'm getting from this is that you are thinking in terms of doing FOR her, rather than doing WITH her. I don't really get the feeling that you are providing her with the support that she really needs right now. It's true that it's only been a few months, and that more time might help. What seems to me that would really help, regardless of where you two end up, is for you start showing that you really value her, and that you also recognize and appreciate the sacrifice that she is making for you. You are both already in WY, and you have to deal with the situation that is in front of you. Why don't you find out what it is that she wants you to do to help her not be miserable? Besides moving, you can't FIX the situation, but you can try to make it the best possible. It's up to you to figure out how to make your wife understand that you cherish her and that you want to be there for her, on HER terms and not yours. As other people mentioned, this should be a partnership, but it is coming across as something else.
I wish you two the best getting this sorted out.
posted by iliketolaughalot at 10:15 PM on June 30, 2009
In addition to what other people have written, I'd like to add that some places are just not a good fit for some people. While I'm not jumping on you, I totally empathize with your wife. Living somewhere that you hate can be soul crushing and you have no idea how bad is going to be until your stuck there.
About 15 years ago I moved to Austin, TX for grad school. I had some misgivings that it wouldn't be my cup of tea (I don't drive and I really, really, really, hate the heat), but I went because it was a great program and I figured I should give Austin a chance, lots of people love it after all. I also thought since I'd be studying something about which I was passionate, where I lived wouldn't matter so much. Boy was I wrong. Despite the great program, amazing resources, wonderful fellow grad students, I hated it. I kinda knew that one's environment plays a role in mental health and happiness, but never knew how large a role it played until I was so utterly miserable. I had nightmares that I was still there a good 5+ years after I moved away. I can not even imagine how much miserable I would have been if I had moved there for someone else and wasn't even getting the benefits of the great job or in my case grad program out of the deal. And I'm not Austin-bashing; it was just an epic fail for me, but I can see how it would be a perfect fit for others.
My point of the long aside above being that while your wife agreed to tag along and knew that Wyoming probably wasn't going to be the best fit for her, she may have had no idea how utterly miserable she was going to be there until she got there. And if it truly is as a bad a fit as Austin was for me, all the cute kittens in the world aren't going help. Two months is a short period of time, so I would agree to try to give it a year (although if you plan on staying longer that I would nth others' suggestion to move to Ft. Collins ASAP).
I work in your field and don't think that you'd raise any red flags by leaving after a year(and when did people start referring to it as "archiving?" I don't know why but it drives me crazy). I also know that a lot of people get into archives because they practically have a fetish for old paper and become set upon being manuscripts curators. If that describes you, then jobs will always be limited and of course the current economy doesn't help. But if you were willing to switch over to records management, you would have a lot more and better paying job opportunities, a lot of which are in very desirable cities. I get that feeling that you are just out of school and very idealistic, which is admirable, but at some point I think you're going to have to be willing to make some sacrifices on the career front for the benefit of your marriage.
posted by kaybdc at 11:34 AM on July 1, 2009
About 15 years ago I moved to Austin, TX for grad school. I had some misgivings that it wouldn't be my cup of tea (I don't drive and I really, really, really, hate the heat), but I went because it was a great program and I figured I should give Austin a chance, lots of people love it after all. I also thought since I'd be studying something about which I was passionate, where I lived wouldn't matter so much. Boy was I wrong. Despite the great program, amazing resources, wonderful fellow grad students, I hated it. I kinda knew that one's environment plays a role in mental health and happiness, but never knew how large a role it played until I was so utterly miserable. I had nightmares that I was still there a good 5+ years after I moved away. I can not even imagine how much miserable I would have been if I had moved there for someone else and wasn't even getting the benefits of the great job or in my case grad program out of the deal. And I'm not Austin-bashing; it was just an epic fail for me, but I can see how it would be a perfect fit for others.
My point of the long aside above being that while your wife agreed to tag along and knew that Wyoming probably wasn't going to be the best fit for her, she may have had no idea how utterly miserable she was going to be there until she got there. And if it truly is as a bad a fit as Austin was for me, all the cute kittens in the world aren't going help. Two months is a short period of time, so I would agree to try to give it a year (although if you plan on staying longer that I would nth others' suggestion to move to Ft. Collins ASAP).
I work in your field and don't think that you'd raise any red flags by leaving after a year(and when did people start referring to it as "archiving?" I don't know why but it drives me crazy). I also know that a lot of people get into archives because they practically have a fetish for old paper and become set upon being manuscripts curators. If that describes you, then jobs will always be limited and of course the current economy doesn't help. But if you were willing to switch over to records management, you would have a lot more and better paying job opportunities, a lot of which are in very desirable cities. I get that feeling that you are just out of school and very idealistic, which is admirable, but at some point I think you're going to have to be willing to make some sacrifices on the career front for the benefit of your marriage.
posted by kaybdc at 11:34 AM on July 1, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by kellyblah at 2:37 PM on June 30, 2009