Is it OK for a woman to omit to tell a guy she's a virgin?

June 21, 2009 12:36 PM

My question concerns the etiquette of losing your virginity.

I met a woman in her early 30s. Then something happened that confused me.

I didn't find out until after we engaged in intimate relations that she was a virgin (which explained some of the awkwardness involved.)

As she is from a pretty traditional country where most people frown on premarital sex, this caused me concern. What I had thought to be a third date between consenting adults seemed to have retroactively become a serious transaction that I wasn't ready for.

Two of my female friends independently described it as "shitty" for her to have sprung the V-card on me without letting me know.

But I am not sure what to think and am just confused about what it all means.

I wonder about what it means when (female) virginity isn't mentioned in advance. Are there circumstances in which you'd find it optional to let a guy know about that? Or is it universally a bad thing to omit?

Any help much appreciated...

posted by anonymous to human relations (35 comments total)

This isn't a virginity issue. It's a communications issue. She should have told you that she was going to view having sex with you as a Big Thing, irrespective of her virginity. That said, how is she going to handle it now?

What I had thought to be a third date between consenting adults seemed to have retroactively become a serious transaction that I wasn't ready for.

Has she discussed her expectations with you regarding her loss of virginity? If not, that's probably a chat you guys should have very soon. She might have very different ideas to you of what this means.
posted by Solomon at 12:41 PM on June 21 [2 favorites]

She may have not mentioned it because she didn't want you to automatically assume, given her age and cultural background, that were signing up for "a serious transaction that I wasn't ready for."
posted by availablelight at 12:42 PM on June 21 [24 favorites]

I would suspect that she was embarrassed to be a virgin in her early 30s (not that it's something to be ashamed of), and was worried of your reaction. She probably wanted to lose it and didn't want to risk you panicking. Doesn't justify it, but explains it.
posted by emilyd22222 at 12:42 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]

Clarification: are you the one assuming this was a "serious transaction" now that you know she was a virgin, or is she the one?
posted by availablelight at 12:43 PM on June 21

I think it's hard to say without knowing more about the woman, and the circumstances. If it really was the serious transaction that you describe, then yeah, it's kind of shitty. (Certainly if she comes back with, "so we're engaged now, right?")

But what if she is moving away from the values of her "pretty traditional country"? What if she is for the first time on her own, without intrusive chaperoning, and is for the first time able to act as she chooses, sexually? I mean, she probably realizes that it's unusual in America for a woman in her early 30s to be a virgin. Maybe she precisely didn't want to make a big thing out of it? (Compare someone that age who is a virgin for some other reason -- shyness, e.g. -- and who is finally overcoming that obstacle? S/he might or might not want to mention it.)

If she didn't mention it precisely b/c she didn't want it to be a big deal for you, then I don't think it was shitty at all.

On preview: what availablelight and emilyd said.
posted by kestrel251 at 12:46 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]

There is not enough information to answer this question. Is she acting differently now? Does she think you are now The One because she lost her virginity to you? If yes, then she obviously has issues with virginity and it was shitty not to tell you beforehand what you were getting yourself into.

If, however, she is acting the same as she did before, and the only one who is having problems with the virginity issue is YOU... then you need to just get over it. If she is still acting normally, then I imagine that she kept her virginity to herself because she didn't want you to freak out and treat her differently than you would treat a "normal" woman. It isn't "shitty" to not tell you unless you had been dating for a long time or if she puts a lot of emphasis on the fact that you are The First Person She Had Sex With. If she was simply ready to have sex, and chose to have her first time with you, then I don't really understand what the problem is.
posted by gatorae at 12:53 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]

Don't make assumptions based on her virginity and cultural background. She comes from a culture that frowns upon premarital sex... but she had premarital sex with you anyway. Therefore, there's a good chance that what's a "serious transaction" where she comes from is not necessarily a serious transaction to her.

I come from a very religious family, and I hadn't even seriously kissed a boy until I was 19. I didn't lose my virginity until I was 21. My first partner made such a HUGE deal out of having (knowingly) taken my virginity that I was scared to tell my next partner that he was only my second in case it spooked him. We're supposed to be all open-minded about sex in this day and age, but it should go both ways, and we are SO not there yet.
posted by katillathehun at 12:53 PM on June 21 [4 favorites]

How soon would you recommend a female mention her sexual status to her date? Is it something you'd mention over dinner during a first date? "How is your filet, is it rare enough, oh, by the way, I'm a virgin." It seems to me that until a female gets that far into a relationship where intimacy seem imminent, there is no other reason to mention the status of her hymen. I don't understand the disapproval of the female friends you consulted - it was apparently your third date with this woman; had she mentioned her virginity on the first or second date, wouldn't you have taken that as some sort of presumptuous statement - as in either "I'm still a virgin at my advanced age, and don't think you're going to get any further than first base with me" or "We've only gone out twice, but I'm confident that you'll ask me out several more times and this will evolve into a sexual relationship."

When you say "after we engaged in intimate relations" do you mean it wasn't until after you had intercourse? Or after you got darned close to it? Because I can certainly see a virgin (whether she's 20 or 30 or 40) getting lost in the heat of passion and understanding where all of this is leading cautioning her partner "this is my first time" before actual intercourse occurs. If your date didn't mention it until after coitus, I can only imagine that she was too embarrassed to say anything about it beforehand and was just trying to explain her blood and awkwardness after the fact. In any case, I don't think she was purposely being "shitty" - in today's society there is actually something of a stigma for a woman who is still a virgin after a certain age, and she is intuitively embarrassed and awkward about not only her sexual status but about how to act during the whole "sex thing" the first time.
posted by Oriole Adams at 1:01 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]

I don't get the problem. If you had 15 partners are you obligated to tell her that? Did you ask her about her sexual history beforehand?

I sorta don't see how it's your business or what could be upsetting about that. Maybe she's been with a guy who didn't want to do it before or something. I mean...are you scared she won't have any STDs or something? Was it enjoyable?
posted by sully75 at 1:01 PM on June 21 [2 favorites]

What I had thought to be a third date between consenting adults seemed to have retroactively become a serious transaction that I wasn't ready for.

But it still *was* a third date between consenting adults, unless she has some severe intellectual disabilities you haven't mentioned to us. I don't think you should assume that it was some huge serious transaction for her if she is not acting like it was.
posted by needs more cowbell at 1:02 PM on June 21

Is it OK for a woman to omit to tell a guy she's a virgin?

Damn right it is. Her body, her business.
posted by meerkatty at 1:03 PM on June 21 [19 favorites]

What I had thought to be a third date between consenting adults seemed to have retroactively become a serious transaction that I wasn't ready for.

Well, OK. But it is. I don't have any way of knowing what this milestone means to this particular woman, but it is a milestone, for anybody. When you have sex with people you don't know that well, you can't know what the sex is going to mean for them either. You could be the third person they had sex with that day, or the first person they had sex with since being raped ten years ago. You don't know. Coming together spontaneously, baggage-aside, is part of the joy of the thing.

But now you do know, so you need to find out what it means to her. Even the most casual of sex is not without obligation -- the campsite rule always applies. So talk to her.
posted by Methylviolet at 1:11 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]

I don't see what obligation she would have had to tell you beforehand. You wanted to have sex with her, right? How does her being a virgin change that?

Also, chatting about her virginity with your friends is *really* not cool.
posted by Jelly at 1:11 PM on June 21 [22 favorites]

I would probably rather know if the person I was sleeping with had slept with many, many people than that they had slept with none. I'm nthing that unless she's making a big deal of out it, you shouldn't be. It's kind of ridiculous. She was an adult virgin, not a fragile being, or an idiot.
Also, you shouldn't be telling your friends this woman's business unless she remained completely anonymous.
posted by ishotjr at 1:19 PM on June 21

As she is from a pretty traditional country where most people frown on premarital sex, this caused me concern. What I had thought to be a third date between consenting adults seemed to have retroactively become a serious transaction that I wasn't ready for.

First of all, an idea of what this country is would go a long way to more accurate speculation on what it all means. It seems unlikely that she would ever be able to identify this post from that. Also, what do you mean by it becoming a "serious transaction?" Has she said or implied or done anything at all?
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 1:20 PM on June 21

I would feel uncomfortable being told this afterwords. But there are tons of possibilities why she wouldn't tell you up front. If I was in that situation, I would probably not want to tell someone up front either, because I'd want the experience to be "normal". I wouldn't want my partner to be all worried and edgy and weird, as I would expect most men would be. (Or, I'd want the guy to want to have sex with me because he wants to, not because he has an opportunity to deflower someone.)

So, I'd advise to shake it off. Be happy that someone chose you to be their first. Be happy that they felt comfortable enough to tell you. Be happy that you are with someone you like. And proceed as normal.
posted by gjc at 1:24 PM on June 21

As she is from a pretty traditional country where most people frown on premarital sex, this caused me concern.

It's not clear why this would be a cause for concern.

Is it OK for a woman to omit to tell a guy she's a virgin?

That's not the "problem" here. It's that she told you afterwards. If she had never told you, there wouldn't be this freakout from you. It's fine that you're freaking out, but realize that you have an issue with this, so you need to figure out why.

I have no idea what she's thinking, as you've failed to mention her thoughts or emotions at all. Talk to her and you'll get some answers.

Also, chatting about her virginity with your friends is *really* not cool.

It's fine. Everybody uses their friends as springboards for discussions about their relationships.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:31 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]

It isn't "shitty" to not tell you unless you had been dating for a long time or if she puts a lot of emphasis on the fact that you are The First Person She Had Sex With.

This. If she is not now pressuring you with expectations then I'm not sure why you would feel she was obligated to disclose her inexperience. If you're feeling guilty for taking her virginity without prior knowledge or commitment intent then, seriously, you're forgiven. You had no way of knowing. If she expects a commitment because of this surprise revelation, then she's out of line. If she's treating it like "a third date between consenting adults" then you're the one who is inaccurately valuing the experience and you need to let it go.

Definitely talk with her and at least find out if you're both on the same page. That's the next step here.
posted by contrariwise at 1:44 PM on June 21

nth-ing communications.

Additionally, lots of people have huge virginity hang-ups. It sounds like all parties involved here (including you and your friends) may have a little or a lot of hang-ups about her prior virginity.

I've mentioned my partner's book, Virgin: The Untouched History before, and it's not really relevant to this discussion beyond telling you anecdotally that even though this was so not envisioned as a project about people's personal stories, any time the topic came up during her research on the book of what she was writing about or planning to write about (which took about 3 years), people would unavoidably and unstoppably volunteer their tales of losing their virginity (even though the information was totally unwanted for the project).

Being as it's a topic that has a huge emotional load attached to it, I think the only sensible alternative here is to talk about it (if you're interested, if she is). The insensible option (though thousands of people have made such things work for millennia in the world) that is a close runner up is to pretend it never happened.

Good luck.
posted by kalessin at 1:52 PM on June 21

I think you're over reacting.
posted by delmoi at 2:03 PM on June 21

Congratulations, you are now married in the eyes of [insert patriarchal country here]!

OK, no, but welcome to cross-cultural romance. I'm in one myself and there are a lot of advantages, from unique travel experiences to being able to act as an expert on your own country.

But, this sort of thing-- unexpectedly different assumptions-- will come up a lot, and you both will need to be ready for them. It's not useful for your friends to criticize her for not following standard American customs.
posted by zompist at 2:08 PM on June 21

There can be a whole lot of reasons why people choose not to disclose information about their sexual history in the early stages of a relationship, so I don't find this woman's choice at all strange. What we disclose about ourselves is often far more related to the stage of intimacy a given relationship has reached than it is to whether the relationship has become sexual.

That said, it would be a nice gesture on your part to let this woman know that you're open to discussing her feelings about losing her virginity without making her feel pressured to disclose them to you. And if you guys are planning to continue seeing each other, you really need to have a discussion about contraception, how important sex is to each of you etc.

While I'm inclined towards "nothing's sacred" friendships myself, be very aware that discussing the details of your sex life with friends is something many potential partners will regard as a betrayal of their privacy. You've told your friends something that this woman may have preferred them not to know about her. If she didn't want you to know that she was a virgin prior to having sex with you, she may not be thrilled about you sharing that information with your friends. Even I would be reluctant to trust someone who'd done that with any further personal disclosures about myself.

Losing her virginity may or may not be a big deal to this woman - defining the boundaries of your relationship and the future expectations each of you have of where you go from here seems like a discussion you need to have soon.
posted by Lolie at 2:53 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]

I don't think it's inappropriate that she didn't tell you in advance (unusual, perhaps, but not inappropriate the way neglecting to mention a spouse or a venereal disease prior to sex would be).

I do wonder why she told you afterward: was it more of a "Hey, by the way, funny story--you were technically my first..." or was it more like "I was a virgin until we slept together, now that means you have the following obligations to me..."? If the former, then it may be that she doesn't want to rule out something long-term with you and feels that keeping this detail a secret would be dishonest. If the latter, then she's behaving poorly and trying to impose on you responsibilities you should have been given the chance to decline.
posted by Meg_Murry at 3:00 PM on June 21

As someone who lost her virginity far later than most people would consider normal, I can say that I didn't tell the guy, before, during or after, because I was not making a big deal about it. The situation there might be a touch different, in that it was just a one night stand thing, and I don't anticipate ever seeing him again. But, if she's not making a big deal about it, then it didn't really matter, and was really not something you needed to know in advance, nor something you should make a big deal about. Not every aging virgin is holding out for their one true love or the magically perfect moment -- some just haven't had that much opportunity to have sex and would kind of like to.

If she is making a big deal about it, it could be one of two things:

She didn't think it would be a big deal, but then was surprised when it actually turned out to be a bigger deal than she had anticipated, and now she's reacting to that emotional surprise. This would be poor judgment on her part, but as long as she isn't ladling on heavy expectations as a result, you can probably work through it with her if you want to.

She did think it was a big deal, and she was kind of deliberately trapping you into her big deal thing without letting you know in advance that it was going to be that. This would be shitty behaviour on her part, and you should probably DTMFA.

Which of these situation is closest to the mark is impossible to tell from what little you've told us.
posted by jacquilynne at 3:36 PM on June 21

Virginity is not a "card" to be played.

What it means is that she felt safe and confident that you would not judge her based on the opinion of your shitty female friends.

Whoops. Maybe not.
posted by Dick Paris at 3:42 PM on June 21 [5 favorites]

Did you ever consider that she told you she was a virgin because she was trying to smooth over some of the weirdness? Unless she explicitly said it was a "serious transaction", you are making assumptions about what her virginity meant to her. My guess is that she was doing her best not to freak you out, and you're freaking out anyway.
posted by slow graffiti at 4:18 PM on June 21

You like her enough that you want to have sex about her, presumably this means you care about her feelings and comfort at least a little bit. The fact that you sought advice on MeFi seems to confirm this.

So, advice: She probably wants to have sex with you but was too embarassed/shamed/plain awkward to tell you this was her first. Do both yourselves a favor, laugh it off, and very kindly and caringly have sex with her.

On the upside, she'll probably want to have a lot more sex with you if you are courteous about it the first few times. Especially courteous about making sure she gets some pleasure out of it.
posted by emmatwofour at 4:52 PM on June 21

lol that would have been sex *with her
posted by emmatwofour at 4:53 PM on June 21

I agree that unless she is acting differently and putting pressures on you simply because you were her first, then she had no obligation to tell you. The only other scenario in which I could see disclosure being important is if you ran into technical difficulties because of an unbroken hymen and there was a lot of unexpected pain or blood involved. Since you didn't mention anything like either of those things, however, I think you need to cut her some slack and try to be flattered that not only did she choose to have her first sexual experience with you, but she also let you know you were her first. That doesn't mean she expects you to be together forever necessarily, which would be totally out of line, but she will always remember you and that's rather special.
posted by katemcd at 4:53 PM on June 21

"Is it OK for a woman to omit to tell a guy she's a virgin?"

Damn right it is. Her body, her business.

Only if she lost her virginity by herself.
posted by roger ackroyd at 5:29 PM on June 21

Only if she lost her virginity by herself.

This isn't having a baby. It's sex. Whether he's the first or not isn't his business unless she really does have virginity-related intentions or he's actually stipulated beforehand that he prefers experience. Same goes for him. It's not her business how many partners he's had, either.
posted by katillathehun at 5:32 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]

I don't think she has an obligation to tell you befoprehand if she doesn't care to, but I think it would be inappropriate of her to make a big deal of it after the fact. Especially if there is now some sort of implied "contract". Is she saying that because you took her virginity that you have some sort of additional obligation to her other than being a gentleman and treating her with kindness and respect? You should do that regardless of her history.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:51 PM on June 21

1. She was probably embarrassed.
2. She did not want you to think it was a big deal and just wanted to have sex anyway, without freaking you out about it. It might not have been a big part of 'who she is' so why tell you if there's a chance it'll ruin things before you guys got to have sex (assuming she did want to have sex, since she did it with you).

If I were her I would've told you just because if it was awkward or I was bad at it, at least you'd know why and (hopefully) would want to stick around until sex got better. But as long as she's acting the same way she was before (that is, in a way that makes you like her and *want* to be with her and have sex with her), then don't worry about her not telling you.

If it still bothers you and if you're actually working on building a relationship with this woman, then tell her that you care and would like to know about other big things in her life, and you would appreciate if she wanted to share them with you. If it bothers you now, but you don't care about building a relationship with her, then whatever, just get over it. It'd be mean to let her think she can trust you with stuff like this if you don't actually want to be there for her.
posted by KateHasQuestions at 8:21 PM on June 21

I was very recently a virgin in my mid-twenties. I had to awkwardly tell my then-partner who I was naked in bed with that I was a virgin, and it was one of the most embarrassing moments of my life. Not that he took it badly or anything, but because he wanted to make the entire experience into A Huge Deal. Maybe losing his virginity was A Huge Deal for him, but I knew even then, it wasn't going to be one for me at all. And it wasn't. Yes, it was a fun experience, one that I'll always remember fondly but it wasn't A Huge Deal and I did not grow overly attached to him afterward just because he was the first one to sex me up, or whatever.

Maybe your girl is a lot like me. Maybe she was embarrassed and worried you'd make a big deal of it, even not want to have sex with her because it's such A Huge Deal and you don't want the baggage. Maybe she just wanted to have sex. What's "shitty" about that?
posted by SkylitDrawl at 8:28 AM on June 22 [1 favorite]

I agree with a lot of the other responses. She is in no way obligated to tell you...but it isn't great communication.
posted by teragram at 9:02 AM on June 22