Comments on: Warranty for Craigslist Item

Question: Warranty for Craigslist Item

theyexpectresults — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 02:22:18 -0800

I am selling a computer (macbook) on craigslist, and some of the potential buyers are asking about a warranty. What sort of warranty should I write?

This is in Tokyo, and I've heard that asking for some kind of warranty/agreement about computers electronics is not uncommon in Japan. So if I told people that I wouldn't give a warranty, i.e. they would just come and inspect it for themselves, then I might not have many buyers left.

The machine is a 3 year old macbook, with a few upgrades. It's physical condition has been accurately described in the ad (few chips to the case), but I am worried that anyone could find something to complain about, since I can't describe everything. Battery life is poor, kind of erratic so I don't know how to put I figure on it (i.e. I can't guarantee 2 hours battery life or anything).

Any advice on how to write such a warranty is welcome.

By: dance

dance — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 02:27:18 -0800

Are you sure they're not just asking if the original Apple (or Apple Care) warranty still applies?

By: Mwongozi

Mwongozi — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 02:37:37 -0800

Yes I would have thought they're merely asking about the original Apple warranty. Tell them it expired.

By: theyexpectresults

theyexpectresults — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 02:40:42 -0800

No, I have explained that the original warranty is expired. These guys are looking for some kind of agreement form me, in case the thing breaks a week after I sell it to them. Like I said, while I think this is pretty damn strange, Japanese friends seem to think this is normal.

By: theyexpectresults

theyexpectresults — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 02:41:27 -0800

And thanks for trying to help!

By: Dasein

Dasein — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 03:07:05 -0800

The problem with you writing a warranty is that you probably don't have the skills necessary to evaluate if any breakdown is their fault, i.e. a result of warranty-voiding behaviour. While they might be perfectly honest, how do you know that they won't screw up one crucial component, get a refund, and then sell the rest? I guess that you could say if something went wrong in the next month that rendered the computer inoperable, you'd take back the computer and refund their money. And the Japanese are, on the whole, quite honest, so if this is standard then maybe you don't have anything to worry about. Personally, the only warranty I would write is that the computer is as described in your ad. You can make no guarantees that the hard drive won't conk out or the battery won't die. That's why they're paying the price they're paying - they're pricing in the depreciation and the risk.

By: thewalrus

thewalrus — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 03:12:15 -0800

I suggest that you offer the potential purchaser to use and examine the laptop for 10-15 minutes while you are there, before they hand over the money for it... As Dasein says you'll have no idea if somebody drops the laptop or spills water on it 3 days after you sell it. Any knowledgeable Mac geek should be able to determine if a laptop works properly in 15 minutes.

By: titantoppler

titantoppler — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 03:30:29 -0800

A personal warranty of around 7 days is pretty common where I come from.

What I suggest is booting up the macbook in the presence of the buyer, and running through the common functions, then getting the buyer to sign off that the laptop is working in all the tested aspects. That way, if something breaks in the buyer's care you'll know if the fault is his/hers or yours.

Another suggestion is to take photos thoroughly, with a timestamp (Polaroid works best), for evidence against complaints of cracks or whatsoever.

/Disclaimer: IANAL, and more importantly, IANYL...

By: Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell

Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 03:37:20 -0800

I am not your lawyer. I would suggest doing what thewalrus says. If that makes it impossible to sell the machine, perhaps you can either discount it a little, throw in something extra, or just wait to sell the computer until you return to your home country (which I presume is not Japan). I personally would not want the hassle of dealing with some personal warranty, and I wouldn't want to rely on the honesty of any stranger buying from me on Craig's List, regardless of what country I'm in.

By: disillusioned

disillusioned — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 04:36:10 -0800

Absolutely do not "warranty" the machine. If you do so, you effectively have to consider the laptop a liability until the warranty period clears, and won't be able to use any of the cash you're given, frankly, no matter how you phrase it. It might also not be particularly enforceable, but if it was, it would result in a lawsuit.

Do the exact opposite. Sell it as-is. Describe it well, allow the buyer to inspect it personally and boot it up, and consider adjusting the price to reflect its non-warrantied status. I don't know if in Tokyo, you're less likely to have to deal with a deadbeat purposefully damaging the system once they get buyer's remorse, and then asking for their "warranty" back from you, but that's a danger that serves you no purpose at all—you're not a company engendering good will here.

Describe the system accurately, explain your reason for selling, and comprehensively list any issues at all, including that the battery is a bit on the weak side. People perceive someone who is forthcoming about small flaws as unlikely to hide large flaws, but again, booting up a machine should be enough to see that it's at least functioning.

Again, don't warranty it at all. It only ends in a headache for you and possibly the loss of money, a laptop, or both.

By: lester

lester — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 06:21:36 -0800

i think you need to ask your japanese friends about what kind of warranty they expect. if they don't know, call someone who's selling a similar item and find out what kind of warranty they're giving. if you're comfortable with offering something similar then do so.

By: beingresourceful

beingresourceful — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 06:36:57 -0800

I've never heard of offering a personal warranty in such a transaction. I wouldn't do it. Someone could easily spill some water on it.

By: sully75

sully75 — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 06:54:32 -0800

Yeah totally. I wouldn't warranty something like that. I'm an individual, not an insurance company. That's the risk you take when you buy used. I can't even imagine how a warranty would work.

When I sell something on ebay, I say they have a day to make sure it's as described and then it's theirs. I'm honest about what problems it has, but after that it belongs to them.

By: mkultra

mkultra — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 08:34:13 -0800

I don't know whether you should do this from a cultural standpoint, but if you did, I'd do it something like this:

- Warranty is good from 7 days from time of purchase. Include pictures of the exterior and a printout of the System Profiler Report, perhaps a screenshot of Disk Utility having run a successful check on the HD.

- Your warranty only offers a refund if any of the following occur:

-- Won't boot from HD or DVD
-- Screen won't display anything
-- Battery won't charge 100%

That's it. Be Specific. I would not cover HD faults, optical drive issues, any of that. Any visible exterior or interior damage voids the warranty.

By: jayder

jayder — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 09:13:20 -0800

These guys are looking for some kind of agreement form me, in case the thing breaks a week after I sell it to them.

No, no, no, no, no, absolutely not. If you write any warranty for them, you're extending them a written invitation to screw you. The only thing in writing should be that the computer is sold AS IS.

By: ishotjr

ishotjr — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 11:10:42 -0800

I would never, ever warranty something I was selling on Craigslist. You're opening yourself up to fraud on their part. It's used. Tell them they can take a look at it for a few minutes when you meet, but otherwise it is as is. I bought a used laptop of Craigslist and that's what the guy did. I knew that buying anything used that is not an official refurbished product contains a slight risk, and so should anyone else.

By: hattifattener

hattifattener — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 11:44:42 -0800

A fair amount of stuff I see sold online mentions a "7-day right of return", which I'm guessing is related to titantoppler's customary 7-day personal warranty. That's always struck me as a good compromise; the buyer has a little time to discover problems, and the seller only has that liability hanging over them for a week. You might not want to use that exact phrase, but a similar "yes, I'll take it back within a week if you discover some problem and if you haven't damaged it; after a week, sale is final" warranty seems perfectly reasonable. Of course you'd need to document its condition when you sell it in case they drop the laptop the day they receive it and want to return it broken. Having them personally verify that it boots and such before they take it, and having both of you sign a copy of the system profiler report, seems like an excellent idea.

Selling things "as is" always raises a red flag for me: unless there's a clear reason the seller wouldn't know the condition of the item, it always makes me suspect that they know some more things are wrong and are looking for a sucker. I would absolutely not buy a laptop advertised "AS IS" for anything other than parts.

By: artdrectr

artdrectr — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 11:55:06 -0800

10 minutes. In your presence.

By: furtive

furtive — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 12:45:57 -0800

My warranty would be "as is" and that they can use/inspect it for a short while in your presence.

By: MrZero

MrZero — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 12:46:50 -0800

As-is, first-come-first-served. Set a fair price, sell it to the first person who can show up with cash. No promises. Anything more than this and you are just asking to get jerked around. I don't care if you are in Tokyo or Toledo.

By: sluggo

sluggo — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:20:01 -0800

I would also only ever sell things as-is - the possibility of getting back a broken computer, or your computer with parts missing or switched out for dead or dying ones (RAM/battery/etc), or just having to spend the time dealing with buyer's remorse isn't worth it.

By: theyexpectresults

theyexpectresults — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 04:59:33 -0800

Thanks for the help everyone. I think I will probably just avoid selling it until I find someone who is willing to deal with the sale in the normal way of meeting and checking it over.

Marked a couple of best answers just to show that the question is resolved, but basically all the comments were helpful. Cheers.