tallying up the notches on the bedpost?

June 17, 2009 7:49 PM

Please help me to constructively frame and endure a "let's discuss your past relationships" conversation with my SO.

Kind of complex, but I'll try to avoid being too wordy here. Hetero couple, he is 30, I'm 41, six months into a relationship. We both initially took it for a light hearted fling (mainly due to the age thing there). The more we keep at it, though, the better we get along. Actually, I get along with him better than anyone else I've ever dated. I've joked that he's the first guy I'm really attracted to that I actually, honest to god LIKE as well. We've started to discuss the fact that this might actually, crazy as it sounds, work out long term.

Here's my challenge. The one thing he has admitted to having trouble dealing with is the fact that I've got more "past history" in regards to relationships (aka "partner count") than he has. Partly this is simple math; I'm a decade older. He gets that. Partly it has to do with his own methodology. I'm only the 4th girl he's ever dated, and the last 3 were all LTRs (over a year). His BFF has told me that he is very picky in terms of girls and that he's not a "hookup" kind of guy anyway.

So here's my question. He recently mentioned that he thinks it might be "time to discuss our past history". He says he knows it isn't really important to our current relationship, but he feels it is something that will always bother him if he doesn't know. He recently said he wanted to move forward with the idea of living together at some point, and he wanted to get everything out there in the open before that.

Part of me wants to say it's none of his damned business, however I think he's also got a valid concern. I have always been honest with him, and we have great 2-way communications. We are very open with each other, much more so than I've ever been with prior partners. Which I think maybe some of the problem here for me: I am just not as comfortable talking about my past as he is. Whether it's sociological bullshit / baggage cluttering up the issue, the age thing, or just our 2 different backgrounds, I don't know. We are both very open minded people, I think he just wants to be reassured that I wasn't a complete slutbag in my youth (I wasn't, thank god, but there is some stuff there).

The big thing I don't want to mess up here is that I don't want to come off as flip or condescending. The other problem I have is that I often tend to just shut down during difficult conversations because I don't know how or what to say. This guy is incredibly intelligent and a very good communicator. When we first started dating, he even called me a couple times on talking down to him, and I have since learned never to underestimate him.

Honestly I don't think anything that will come out of this is going to be a deal breaker for either of us. I think it's just one of these not-so-fun conversations you must have as a couple in order to build trust and intimacy. I trust him not to go haywire (he's not like that at all) I just very much don't want to say the wrong things here or lead the discussion down the garden path.

So we are probably going to have The Talk in the next couple of days, and I could really use some help in how to get through this. Suggestions?

posted by anonymous to human relations (45 comments total)

This can only lead to heartbreak. There is no good reason to discuss this. I think you should steer this conversation more towards why he is so insistent on this. Is it a trust issue? Was he hurt in the past? Is he worried about ax murderers coming out of the woodwork? Whatever issues come up, deal with those head on. This is just a terrible, terrible roundabout way of getting at those issues.

Sorry to not directly answer your question, but that was the first thing that came to me.
posted by ohio at 7:57 PM on June 17

He says he knows it isn't really important to our current relationship, but he feels it is something that will always bother him if he doesn't know.

This smells like bullshit. If it doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter, there's no need for a big talk about things.

That said, you should tell him everything you've mentioned in this post about shutting down and you're uncomfortable with this talk. He needs to know where you're coming from.

Try to figure out where your lines are, what you will and won't talk about. Stick to that and say that you're sticking to that and if you can, explain why.

Good luck! Remember that someone who loves you takes you as you are, not as they think you should be.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:06 PM on June 17

your question makes me sad, and I feel like having An Anxious Not-Fun Talk is weird and something you don't have to do. Why is this so loaded? In my experience, talking about losing your virginity and who you've had relationships with and etc. is no more loaded than talking about the first jobs you had or what the third grade was like... it's just sharing anecdotes - funny or otherwise - as part of getting to know each other. I think it is good to talk about past sexual relationships - why not? - but it seems like your reluctance has made it into a kind of Serious Debriefing where you hope not to be judged a "slutbag" (ugh!) and that can't be good. I don't think it's wrong for him to want to know about your life before you met him... but I also don't think it's wrong to refuse a "difficult conversation" about things that don't need to be difficult. Maybe it'd be better to have a talk about openness? Or a talk about your separate expectations for disclosure and how you might be more open as time goes by about telling stories as they come up?
posted by moxiedoll at 8:06 PM on June 17 [1 favorite]

Any body over the age of 25 that thinks they need to have this conversation has issues.

Seriously, this DOES NOT MATTER to adults. What people did when they were finding out who they were is far, far less relevant than the fact that have hopefully established, now, who they want to be. Notches on bedposts are just an excuse or trigger to evoke ridiculous, pre-conceived, reactions based on social 'norms' or predetermined ideas of what is 'normal'.

He needs to get over that. Even if he was with someone his own age, he needs to get over that. Body count is irrelevant - not one bit of the number matters to anything at all. Knowing that you are happy in who you are and comfortable in what you want from life is far better an indicator of anything that the 'how many people have you sat on' discussion will provide. It's an issue for teenagers, it shouldn't be an issue for adults.

With two people of such disparate backgrounds, only clear understanding of what that age gap means exactly, will allow him to understand the implications of any issues with his expected, predicted, number and truth. Once people move from parallel upbringings (especially if one moves from LTR to transient lifestyles) actual numbers become irrelevant as the bigger factor is how you have grown and stabilised as a person.

I think it is important, no matter how well, this conversation goes, that this growth and understanding of who you are and what you need has been the only worthwhile (and important) outcome. The obsession with numbers is merely insecurity.
posted by Brockles at 8:07 PM on June 17 [4 favorites]

He recently mentioned that he thinks it might be "time to discuss our past history". He says he knows it isn't really important to our current relationship, but he feels it is something that will always bother him if he doesn't know.

methinks he doth protest too much. as ohio said, the discussion you should be having is why he cares so much about the past, since the past is the past and you've both already decided you want to be together.

I think he just wants to be reassured that I wasn't a complete slutbag in my youth (I wasn't, thank god, but there is some stuff there).

even if you were, it would a) not be a bad thing and b) still none of his business.
posted by lia at 8:08 PM on June 17

I'm with ohio, it won't wendell. The only legitimate concern of his about your past should be whether or not you had safe sex. Beyond that, it's none of his business. He's asking because it sound like he wants a reason to feel insecure and having a number or whatever will just give him ammo. It won't build trust or intimacy if that's the case, just the opposite. I'd gently tell him you don't discuss your previous sex life out of respect for your past lovers, because it's not his business to know and would hope he's the same. After all, he wouldn't want you telling a future partner about your intimate life together later down the track, would he?
posted by Jubey at 8:08 PM on June 17

ohio (oh, and everyone else, on preview) beat me to it. I have a strong feeling from your post that nothing good can come of this. However, if you are still going to proceed, I'd recommend you try to find out beforehand exactly why this impending discussion is so important to him and what he hopes to get out of it. Because if he doesn't know why it's important to him, and he doesn't have a clear idea of what he hopes to get out of it, having "The Talk," as you put it, is a terrible, terrible idea.

The other problem I have is that I often tend to just shut down during difficult conversations because I don't know how or what to say.

Be aware that if this happens to you in this particular conversation, it might be precisely because there is nothing constructive for you to say.

Brandon Blatcher: Good luck! Remember that someone who loves you takes you as you are, not as they think you should be.

Seconding this.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 8:12 PM on June 17 [3 favorites]

Have a conversation with him about your values and preferences. What do you look for in a relationship? How do you want your partner to relate to you? What do you like sexually?

The number of people you have found in the past who satisfy your requirements is none of his business, and no good will come of telling him. Discussing in detail your past intimate relationships is not only unwise, it also violates the privacy of your past partners. Don't do it.
posted by decathecting at 8:12 PM on June 17

Follow his lead. You probably think he's going to want weirdo sex-and-numbers details and what he's probably more inerested in is whether you've ever been pregnant or had an STD or been a prostitute or slept with the friends of yours that he knows because he thinks it's part of sexual health and awareness.

This is a nice time to try to make an effort to make him comfortable talking to you about it (shutting someone down who hasn't really been around much can have longer ranging consequences, so trying to be cautious about how you frame things is a good idea) while at the same time basically being like "hey some of that stuff is my business and really not yours, not now and not ever"

He can't make you say anything you're not comfortable with saying to him, so be confident and relaxed and that will help carry you through. Pretty much no matter what you've done sexually, you wound up making LTR plans with him at the end of it, so that's the good news, yes?
posted by jessamyn at 8:13 PM on June 17 [1 favorite]

It is none of his damned business, and what it to be gained from it? It happened it happened.

There is a time honoured way of overcoming this with the minimum disquiet - lie.
posted by mattoxic at 8:21 PM on June 17 [1 favorite]

I think folks are being a bit too hard on your boyfriend here. Given how confessional popular culture has become, I think it's somewhat normal to expect a conversation about the how-many's and the how-olds and the this-one-time stories. Normal, but unhealthy.

I am the same age as your boyfriend, and I always expected that this conversation would happen early in relationships. Sort of like showing each other your scars: this is from where I fell off my bike, this is when I fell of the monkey bars, this is the story of that one time in my crazy youth. So what I'm writing below is to give you a sense of what he might be thinking about. I'll grant that he might just be luridly curious, or insecure, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

My current partner, though, is *not* a member of the confessional club. We've never talked about the how-many's, and I admit, what I know about his romantic life before me is generally information I've pulled from him. At first, this made me really uncomfortable. Why didn't he want me to know about these things? Was he hiding something? Should I pry? There are stories I really wanted to know, because I felt like they were/are important parts of anyone's past: the first time you fall in love, the first time you really got hurt, how you dealt with it, etc. Over time, I feel like I've gotten a sense of how these experiences have shaped him. And while he'd probably say that oh damn, I pried horribly, I really felt like I held back considerably. And I am so, SO glad.

Because you know what? That road has gone both ways. He's learned, organically, about the big experiences that have shaped who I am now. And he's also never tried to put himself in a position to judge me via my past. We learn about each other as we interact with each other, in this relationship, now. That is what matters.

And, to be honest, the problems that have arisen vis-a-vis our pasts have come when I've gotten all confessional, and overshared as I've tried to justify my issues. I'm incredibly lucky that he calls me on that. Neither one of us gets away with bad behavior towards each other based on issues from the past.

So my recommendation is to tell your boyfriend that you're uncomfortable talking numbers, or specific experiences, or drawing charts, or whatever. Make sure you're open enough with him that he knows something about the emotional experiences that shaped you. He may be trying to force this issue in a checklist-of-questions kind of way because he doesn't feel like you're opening up to tell him about the big things. But there's no reason for you to give in to that, as long as you're being emotionally honest about the big things in your past.
posted by amelioration at 8:28 PM on June 17 [5 favorites]

And I wrote all of that assuming you've been sexually active for awhile, and thus have naturally already had the STD talks, amirite?
posted by amelioration at 8:30 PM on June 17 [1 favorite]

Well, what has worked for me in the past with these sorts of conversations is looking at my past as objectively as possible. There are several things he could be trying to discern. I don't know what his relationship history is but it might be that he is trying to garner an image of how you are in relationships that are long-term: how you got into them (and why), what was the overall tone of them and how you moved on from them, or...maybe he's concerned with the number of men you've been intimate with (and, honestly, if that's his concern, you have another issue all together.) The end result might be his desire to imagine how you will be with him (not that your past will honestly give him that.) Given that you have developed a relationship that has good two-way communication, use that as your starting point to talk. Think of past relationships either in stages-as in "when I was in my 20's, I was focusing on this, that or the other and my relationships reflected that in that they were about discovering how I relate and enjoyed myself" or something like that. Or, think of the major relationships you had and focus on those from a place of how you grew in them. Casual relationships don't need to be brought up as anything other than dating. Talking bad about former BFs/partners is bad form so avoid doing that as much as possible. Be honest and sincere. If he asks you a question that you're not sure you can answer without incriminating yourself, tell him you don't know how to talk about it because you haven't really spent time thinking about it. In the long run, I generally don't think incessantly talking about past relationships within a current one is a good idea or helps anything but don't avoid it. He obviously is needing this conversation for some reason so to build trust (in his mind) do it with as much love and understanding as possible, breathe and be in the moment.
posted by Hydrofiend at 8:31 PM on June 17

Honestly, I'd turn this more into a talk about what he's feeling anxious about and what he thinks learning this information will help him figure out. The tack I tend to go with is that as a relationship evolves you will naturally learn more about your partner's past and the effect it had on them. ("Oh, my ex-boyfriend Hans and I went snorkelling this one time, and that was when I knew I could never ever overcome my fatal flaw: a crippling terror of kelp.") These little bits of your past, which inevitably involve past partners as part of the story, emerge naturally as you build intimacy. You can't force that intimacy with a clinical recounting of "and then I dated Fred for 6 months, followed by an ill-advised hookup with Lou..." So if you do have this conversation I'd make it more meta: what does he hope to learn from this, and less blow by blow recounting of who, when, and where.
posted by MsMolly at 8:43 PM on June 17 [3 favorites]

It's natural to want to know about a loved one's past, including their relationships. But it should come out as freely shared anecdotes and memories, not as an interrogation.

I assume you'd have mentioned anything really alarming, like a past stalker or something. Other than that, if you're not comfortable sharing, it's not right for him to pry.
posted by zompist at 8:49 PM on June 17

I can kind of see both sides of this. On the one hand, he does sound like he's insecure about the difference in experience, and maybe THAT is what he's trying to find out about -- did you just have this absolutely fantastic guy in your past that you may be potentially comparing him to, etc. He may see it as, "if she is up front about this mystery guy finally, then I'll KNOW she trusts me."

On the other hand, I kind of think that this kind of detail is detail that comes out over time -- as you talk about other things. you know, one day you are having a conversation about some habit you have and you say, "oh, you know, this could be something that is a hangover from this guy I dated 5 years ago, he always got me in the habit of doing blah blah blah..." and then another time, "ooh, yeah, this song always makes me a little depressed because it reminds me of my high school boyfriend who dumped me at the dance during this song," and on and on like that. But that kind of conversation may have him spooked because he may think that's all little detail-y stuff, and "surely, there must be bigger stuff."

Others have suggested to discuss why he feels like he needs to have this talk, but I'm just afraid that could backfire on you as well -- "what do you mean why do I feel like we need to talk like this? What, are you trying to get out of telling me something?"

Maybe that's a way in -- discuss why you sometimes shut down in conversation because you sometimes just don't know how to say what you want to say and you're choosing your words. And that BECAUSE of this, the whole notion of "let's have a big discussion just about this" makes you nervous, and you would be MUCH more open just letting things naturally come up in conversation.

Maybe asking him WHAT exactly he is most concerned about could help you both find a way in. He says he "gets it" that you're older, but does he really? Is it that he feels that he doesn't measure up? Is he fishing for stuff other guys did that was better? Or is he just having some weird moment of "....well, huh, it just feels like how many boyfriends she's had is something I SHOULD know, isn't it?"

I think it's also important to be clear for yourself that you get to have some control over what you tell him and when. He doesn't need to know every last single detail about what happened in your past. And that's not because you're hiding something from him, it's because we ALL have intimate stuff we don't want to disclose right away, because it just feels intimate. People we know have to earn that trust, and it's earned in stages. It can't be forced.

That's why maybe finding out what he's looking for could help. Finding out why he wants to know. If he is feeling insecure about his experience, then you could couch it as, "oh, okay -- then how about we talk about THINGS I have and haven't done, rather than getting into the people?" Or if he's worried about whether you've had any other big relationships like this, then it's, "okay, sure, this guy and this guy were kind of serious, and here's how I think it didn't work out" (or whatever).

Something in his pscyhe is wigging him out, and helping him figure out what that is will help you figure out how to tend to it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:57 PM on June 17 [4 favorites]

Get screened together for STD's. Beyond that, it's pretty obnoxious and controlling behavior for someone to ask for a sexual resume. Do so at your own risk.
posted by bardic at 8:58 PM on June 17 [2 favorites]

Don't do it.
posted by LarryC at 8:59 PM on June 17 [1 favorite]

I can understand where your boyfriend is coming from. I am the much younger partner in a relationship, and I was (am) fascinated to learn about what my boyfriend was like at my age. This includes girlfriends, weird or awkward makeout hookups, etc. As long as it's so far in the past that you can laugh about it, relax a little about sharing it. It's fun and funny to share experiences.
posted by pintapicasso at 9:09 PM on June 17

He recently mentioned that he thinks it might be "time to discuss our past history".

That's very young of him.

What's to discuss? You've both dated people, had your ups and downs, and grown because of it.

I'd take the more wizened approach and speak in vague terms about your exes. Your SO may say he wants to know, but he is lying to himself. Spare his feelings, omit the wild monkey sex you had with Fernando the pool boy and his three buff life guard friends that one summer, and keep it light.
posted by wfrgms at 9:12 PM on June 17

As someone who is 30 and doesn't have a huge sexual/relationship resume (I have a history, but I'm probably a bit behind the curve if anyone is keeping track), this is off. OBVIOUSLY you need to have the STD talk/tests if you haven't already and have decided to be monogamous.....

....and I just scrolled up and read EmpressCallipygos' answer and it is pretty much what I was going to say, but she said it better, so I'll just favorite it. I will say though that it's not necessarily an age/experience thing, and it seems *almost* a little creepy that he's planning this talk, rather than just letting it happen as you learn more about each other. It kind of reminds me of how a parent plans having "The Drug/Sex Talk" with their kid when they hit puberty.
posted by AlisonM at 9:21 PM on June 17

I have a lot of thoughts on this, because I was in the same position - I was determined to have 'the talk' with my GF because I was feeling a little jealous and thought I wanted to know, if only to have a concrete idea of her past instead of piecing it together. I don't know why it was important - it shouldn't have been, but it was. (She wanted to know my history, too. Believe me, it was a long, miserable night.)

What I learned is that the conversation is a bad idea (surprise!). But it's probably going to happen, in which case I am seconding that you shouldn't be too hard on him. Some responses make it sound like he's an asshole for wanting to know. I think it's just natural. If he's a good guy, and he sounds like it, then he probably wishes he didn't want to know. My advice is to be understanding because he might be feeling a little jealous and intimidated by the disparity in numbers, as you mentioned.

And, with all respect to the hive, I would ignore advice making this about something bigger than it actually is. He just wants to know, or thinks he wants to know, a number. Again, it's neanderthal, but so be it. He's a guy and he's feeling insecure. Go easy on him.
posted by JamesWilson123 at 9:26 PM on June 17 [2 favorites]

The question doesn't give hints as to what he wants to talk about. Maybe because she doesn't know? How about you just tell him that a big sit-down-conversation makes you uncomfortable and that you'd rather he ask questions out of the blue when they occur to him and you promise to be honest?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:28 PM on June 17

And what's to say you spill all your stories and six months from now you break up, and then you get to lay awake wondering who all he's telling over a six pack of beer...not saying that's happened to me or anything. Don't do it. Intimacy grows over time through trust, it isn't created in one big sit-down confessional.
posted by tamitang at 9:33 PM on June 17 [2 favorites]

1. It shouldn't be a debrief or big sit-down confessional. That will give the entire conversation a really negative tone, both for you and for him. It'll also be a bit of a multiple-whammy, hearing the entire list of ex-es at a go.

2. Perhaps you should structure it as a "significant lessons learned from your relationship history" discussion. This way you talk about certain things you've discovered about yourself / your preferences in relationships / major DOs and DON'Ts, rather than about specific people. This might make him feel less intimidated by your ex-es because the conversation is structured around ideas/themes in relationships and how they apply to you-and-him. And he'll still get the information he wants, when you bring up anecdotes and examples to illustrate your points. Make him do the same as well.

3. That's just an idea I thought up 5 minutes ago, though. When I entered my relationship I made it clear that I thought talking about ex-es was a bad idea, and found that the other party shared this opinion too. Over the course of the relationship details have inevitably emerged in the course of conversation, but there has never been a big sit-down confessional, aka recipe for fucking disaster.

4. Another option, in line with many of the other suggestions above: just put your foot down and say, "No, I will not debrief you on my relationship history. I believe that is a recipe for disaster, and will be unhealthy for us in the long run. I will bring up the ex-es if and when it is relevant and appropriate to do so, but this relationship is about us, and we should keep it that way. This should not be a dealbreaker for you. I am doing this because I value what we currently have, and don't want this to poison it."
posted by nihraguk at 9:54 PM on June 17

If I trust someone, I trust them to decide for themselves what in their past is important for me to know and when they are going to tell me about it. There are some things that I'd expect to be told about eventually, depending on how far our relationship progressed -- arrests, addictions, children from past relationships/marriages, etc.

Sounds to me like he doesn't trust you. How is learning about your ex with the huge penis or a threesome in college going to build trust?

He is not a bad person for requesting this conversation. But you're not obligated to have it, and, as the more mature person in the relationship, you might gently inform him that he is mistaken in thinking that he'll be better off knowing.
posted by thebazilist at 10:06 PM on June 17 [3 favorites]

FWIW I'm 38, I've been married five years, and it wasn't until about a month ago that it even occurred to me to ask my husband how many people he's slept with. It's in no way something we've avoided talking about - stuff comes up conversationally with regularity - but it just wasn't important. I think we both assumed that once you're a licensed driver, you rack up some miles.

But we did talk about relationship histories, which for both of us are very different tallies than the number of people with whom we have horizontally mamboed. I actually think the relationship conversations are important to have. Relationships are so fundamental to forming who you are for most people; they seem pretty key to me.

I'm actually stunned by the number of people here who have adopted a "don't ask, don't tell" policy about their sexual histories. I have to say that I don't understand that at all. I've done plenty of stuff that's scandalous, ill-advised, stupid, unhealthy, regrettable and/or unconventional, but absolutely nothing I'm ashamed of or wouldn't want my partner to know.

And honestly, if I had a partner who even potentially thought less of me because of something I'd done in that department, I wouldn't want to be with that person. "I am what I am" and all that.
posted by DarlingBri at 10:57 PM on June 17 [2 favorites]

I'm only the 4th girl he's ever dated, and the last 3 were all LTRs (over a year). His BFF has told me that he is very picky in terms of girls and that he's not a "hookup" kind of guy anyway.

You know his story. You've even asked his friends about his past. So I'm going to have to disagree with those who are saying he's over the line asking about yours, especially if you're asking questions of his friends. He deserves the same kind of honesty.

This isn't information that needs to be hidden. If a person wants to be serious with you, they will. Though I do agree that it's weird to sort of schedule a talk about it. It should come out more naturally. So play the whole thing by ear.

FWIW I'm older than my boyfriend and in the process of getting to know one another, we were each totally honest with each other in this matter. I'm not a one night stand or fling kind of person, and neither is he, so knowing our pasts helped bring us closer.
posted by cmgonzalez at 1:23 AM on June 18 [1 favorite]

Part of me wants to say it's none of his damned business

If you think you're going to get serious, it is his business, and his is yours. Sexually transmitted diseases, potential hookups with common friends that might prove troubling down the road if not known about, revealing of moral or ethical positions¹ that might not have otherwise come up, including past behaviors that could resurface.

For example: I know someone who's done a few porn films, and didn't admit it to her spouse until they were over a year into it. You can imagine the stress that introduced.

For example: What if he had a four-month window of time where, after an LTR breakup, he fucked everything that moved, usually while drunk or high?

Religion, sex, politics and other personal stuff aren't anyone's business but your own -- unless you think you have a good chance of spending the rest of your life together. So then you start talking about those things, one at a time, and you learn the most important thing of all: can you communicate about important stuff?

You worry that you don't know what to say, you shut down, etc. -- and that's all stuff that, if you can't avoid 'em with him on these subjects, you're not going to have good communication in the relationship. Ultimately, that's a hell of a lot more important than your sexual history per se.

¹yeah, I know
posted by davejay at 2:22 AM on June 18

I'm actually stunned by the number of people here who have adopted a "don't ask, don't tell" policy about their sexual histories. I have to say that I don't understand that at all. I've done plenty of stuff that's scandalous, ill-advised, stupid, unhealthy, regrettable and/or unconventional, but absolutely nothing I'm ashamed of or wouldn't want my partner to know.

We don't have a precise question list for this conversation, so I think we're all coming up with different predictions of what will be talked about, which is leading to people arriving at different conclusions.

As an example, if my partner asked me "of all your relationships, with whom did you have the best sex" I would answer "that would have to be my relationship with you, because not only is it the most adventurous and physically satisfying, but I also share an emotional closeness with you that I have not shared with any of my previous partners" regardless of whether that was true or not. My reasoning is that, if I asked the same question of my partner, and she said "well, sex with my previous ex was frankly a lot better, but he was busy a lot and you pay more attention to me", that might be an honest response, but I'm not sure sharing it would strengthen our relationship.

In other words, asking some questions sets you up for either a response you don't like, or a response that you can't help but suspect is just telling you what you want to hear. Questions like that, I think, are better left undiscussed.

Of course, that's only one possible speculation about what Anonymous's conversation could involve; if your prediction of what the conversation would be like is different, obviously the wisdom of engaging in it would be different.
posted by Mike1024 at 2:28 AM on June 18 [1 favorite]

This is an ultimate catch 22. He's asked the "Do I look fat in this?" question for relationships. If you dodge the question, he'll think the worst. If you answer it honestly he'll think you're horrible. If you answer it in the best way he hopes for, he'll think you're lying because these questions always come out of insecurity.

So address his insecurity. My guess is that it doesn't have to do with how many people you fucked. He wants to know how he's different (ie: more special than) the other people you've had and moved on from, in the past. He wants to know why someone would break up with you, and why you'd break up with them. And he wants to know that these things don't apply to your relationship. So address it in this context, and you might just get out of it okay.

The one time I got away without any permanent damage from this question was having a talk about the talk, getting the real reasons they want to know. Once really found out what they were concerned about it I was able to give specific info from my past that addressed their needs and didn't feed their fears.

Tricky though.
posted by Ookseer at 2:30 AM on June 18

I've actually done this in kind of similar circumstance (I'm older with more experience) on my own volition. I use to be a practicing alcoholic with somewhat of a dark past. I wanted both to be totally honest and open with my partner (now soon to be husband) as well as make sure he never questioned the things I need to keep doing to stay sober.

So I told him that we would have one night of truth and history, where I would tell him everything, he could ask anything he wanted and I would tell him the absolute truth.

The reason it worked is because I was honest with the things that mattered: I told him not the amount of men I'd slept with or the reasons I cheated on every single one of them, but the things that had the power to change the realtionship I had now: "I tried this relationship, it didn't work because of X. This is what I've done to learn from it." Or, "I tried sleeping around, I tried staying faithful, I tried lying, I tried it all. It didn't work until I fixed X part of me."

This meant the focus was on what I need to do to work on the relationship that I have - and this is where it became clear to my lovely partner that it really was a two-way thing and he had to continue to be as open and honest going forward as I was with him.

I had to be careful to not make it about tallying up the notches on the bed post; that would have been a much easier task. It was really a positive experience for me - but only because it wasn't "How many guy I've shagged vs how many girls he'd shagged".
posted by katiecat at 2:51 AM on June 18 [2 favorites]

I think "don't do it" is a little strong. Only because, well, when you wonder something and someone refuses to tell you, it looks shady. You don't want to look shady, you just don't want to hurt him.

My current GF thinks that I used to be with a hundred different ladies. Sometimes she'll make a comment, or ask a little question, and I'll just say "Do you really want to know the answer? I'm yours now, and I'm completely faithful to you."

And if she says yes, I'll tell her, without embellishment.

No need to treat it like some major secret or something you refuse to talk about, because in-so-doing you MAKE it a big deal.

Now, if your previous life experiences included risky behavior or behaviors you're going to want to visit again, you might need to be clear about that now to avoid that drama later.
posted by TomMelee at 5:32 AM on June 18

I think it depends on what he's wanting out of the conversation. As jessamyn said, perhaps he only wants STD/prostitute/this one time I slept with your brother information. Well, I think you should have had that before you started hooking up six months ago, but ok.

If, on the other hand, he wants detailed ages/counts/favorite positions of your previous lovers...whoa. Not cool. My boyfriend and I know how old the other was when we lost our virginity, and we know a little bit about some sexual hangups that occurred in other relationships (in as much as it relates to our CURRENT one) but we have never discussed actual numbers. I'm pretty confident his count is a bit higher than mine, but I don't want to know. Honestly, I really, truly do not want to know. And I don't know if I'd tell him if he insisted on knowing mine. Even in a really close intimate relationship, some things should remain personal.

I don't think this talk can go very well. Especially since he's insisting that once he knows, it won't matter. If it really didn't matter, why would he need to know?
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 5:35 AM on June 18

The situation sucks, but you need to tell him honestly and in full. This is one of those predicaments that can't be solved by ignoring it, or just telling him "what he needs to know."

Is it horrible of him to care about your past? Yes, but if that's a factor for him in picking a mate, then he has a right to that information in order to make an informed decision to be with you. If you've banged a football team, and he doesn't want to be with someone who has banged a football team, then keeping him from that information is tricking him into a situation he doesn't want.

And honestly, if you're not ashamed of your past then you shouldn't have a problem talking about it.

Good luck!
posted by Willie0248 at 6:37 AM on June 18

Nthing the red flags. The last (and only) time someone I was with showed this sort of interest in learning the details of my dating past was when my then-boyfriend and I were on two totally different pages with regards to the relationship (he wanted something much more serious than I did). Needless to say, we didn't last very long.
What my ex wanted to know (as far as I can tell) was that I was fully committed to our relationship and a future together. I was not. It sounds like you are, so maybe he's just not getting the message, or maybe he needs explicit confirmation that you're with him because you really want to be.
posted by oinopaponton at 6:45 AM on June 18

He says he knows it isn't really important to our current relationship, but he feels it is something that will always bother him if he doesn't know.

And it will bother him just as much if he does know. And the other elephant in the room is that no matter how progressive we all may be, it's not uncommon to have a different opinion of a number when it belongs to a woman, rather than a man.

I would advise to mentally prepare yourself to be very calm and gracious. Do not disclose your "number." If you absolutely must, perhaps reframe -- note serious relationships with Messieurs L, M, N, and O, plus a "handful" of more casual relationships.

You're the person you are today in part because of your past, sure, but the quantification of a person's past is, well, a bit weird, in a way. Would you describe your favorite foods by listing by rote all of the occasions on which you ever ate them?

Hopefully there is a way in which you can give him some insight into the person you were before you met him, without getting into the minutia of counting how many times you had sex with how many people.
posted by desuetude at 7:09 AM on June 18 [3 favorites]

Right about now I'd need to be asking myself why a brick wall is appearing between me and someone with whom I'd "started to discuss the fact that this might actually, crazy as it sounds, work out long term", and who is putting it there. Trusting this person - and trusting myself with this person - would be basic to my considering long-term. That doesn't mean sharing histories has to include a "discussion" of include body counts and technical details, but my history is the path that brought me to you (partner) and it shaped me along the way. It's important to me that you know and care about at least the major turning points and who the major characters were. Some of the people I met on that road were very important to me; some still are, though not in the same ways, of course. I need you to know that, too!
(And seconding DarlingBri.)
posted by TruncatedTiller at 7:31 AM on June 18

He says he knows it isn't really important to our current relationship, but he feels it is something that will always bother him if he doesn't know.

Like others, I have to call BS on this part. It's clearly preying on his mind, and you are right to feel uncomfortable, if he was 19 or something it would make more sense but a 30 year old should accept that people his age and older are likely to have had a myriad of sexual experiences. Like others have said I would keep it strictly on the level of sexual health issues (if any), and maybe past serious long term partners which should have come up naturally in conversation by now.

Also, it's great that you really like this guy but I would make sure before taking a serious plunge with him that this gap in maturity (not age, but maturity) isn't going to spill over into other areas and become an issue. I'm a 24 year old dude, mind, and I would never expect to have a detailed conversation about past sexual exploits with a partner unless it had to do with the above concern. Good luck!
posted by the foreground at 7:50 AM on June 18

That conversation can't be healthy. It'll just give him more material to fixate on... the past is the past. reassure him that you're with HIM now, by choice, and you're happy to be so. Anything that happened before is past and if there was anything in there that was legitimate cause for his concern, you wouldn't be with him now, which you are.

My SO was a hounddog in his day. It's bugged me a little sometimes but mostly I just tease him about it. After all, when he ran out of bikini-clad exchange students he settled down very happily with this geeky computer nerd.... so clearly I have something they don't, nu?
posted by Billegible at 8:32 AM on June 18

I know 10 times more about my partner's past than he does about mine, but that's because he's a bit of an oversharer, not because I wanted/needed to know. I'm glad he hasn't asked many questions of me, because I have quite the colorful past, but if he had wanted to have The Talk, I would have stressed the positive aspects, i.e. I've never gotten an STD, I've never been pregnant, I have no contact with any of my exes, I was never abused. Beyond that, he really doesn't need to know. If he feels like he does, it's because he's insecure. What he really wants is reassurance. So reassure him - no matter what/who you've done in your past, you enjoy being with him now. Turn the conversation into a seduction. Change the subject to "I really like it when you do X to me" and then put your hand up his shirt or something.

Maybe this is much more benign. Maybe he wants to know your previous experience with certain activities because he wants to engage in them. For example, have you ever tried bondage, has anyone ever spanked you, etc. Maybe he has kinky thoughts and doesn't want to freak you out if you've been an innocent angel for 41 years.
posted by desjardins at 8:56 AM on June 18 [3 favorites]

"We are both very open minded people, I think he just wants to be reassured that I wasn't a complete slutbag in my youth (I wasn't, thank god, but there is some stuff there)."

i feel a need to chime in on behalf of all the slutbags out there -- being a slutbag was a very positive, fun, sexy experience -- that is, save for all the people who judged that "slutbag" was an appropriate substitute for "lots and lots of fun sex."

it sounds like he's insecure and wants to know how he measures up, wants a bit of an ego stroke -- i wouldn't consider this my problem to solve, if i were in your place.

i'd be hesitant to have a "talk" like this -- sex is anecdotal and fun, sometimes upsetting, sometimes really hot to hear about, can bring you closer together. but making it Serious Issue that requires a Big Talk like this saps all the fun out of learning about each other.
posted by crawfo at 10:11 AM on June 18 [1 favorite]

And the other elephant in the room is that no matter how progressive we all may be, it's not uncommon to have a different opinion of a number when it belongs to a woman, rather than a man.

Of course. Cultures have always placed more limits on female sexuality than male. I'm not an anthropologist but I can't think of any culture that categorically gives women significantly more sexual freedom than men. Because women always knew who their children were and men never quite could. The latter has changed only extremely recently in terms of human history with the advent of DNA testing. So men by and large restricted female sexuality because the risk for men was huge: if a man put his resources into raising another man's children he became a genetic dead end. Hundreds of thousands of years of evolutionary history–cultural and biological–don't magically switch off over night now that we're in the 21st century.

Okay, that's veering way off topic, but it may be an explanation that at least sheds a little light on why this is a concern, not that I'm suggesting the OP's boyfriend is thinking in these terms. Nor should it be used to justify bad behavior.

Anyway, I do think there's probably a good middle-ground somewhere between "don't ever tell your partner anything about your sexual history" and "tell anything and everything, explicitly."
posted by 6550 at 10:25 AM on June 18

follow-up from the OP

First off, I think I gave the wrong impression that people are grasping on the "OMG he wants to sit me down and have The Talk", and it sounds like there weren't enough specifics. I was trying to be brief, and left out some important detail, and was probably projecting some of my own insecurity in there as well (in hindsight my title sucks and completely gives the wrong impression, but I was in a hurry).

The "ZOMG, how many guys have you fucked?!" thing isn't how he means this at all. He's just said that, I think over time, and face-to-face, he'd like to have more substance on my background. Also, to quell some of the speculation, we have indeed both mutually had the STD talk and we are both strict about testing (indeed, yes, before we even hooked up the first time).

In talking to him more in depth last night, he (without any prompting on my part, even!) admits that he is well aware of how jealous and insecure and immature this all makes him sound, but he says he can't help feeling this way. In this regard, JamesWilson123 is dead on the mark with his response, actually. It very much rings true. Boyfriend also mentioned that in the past this stuff hasn't mattered at all with his prior girlfriends. He says it's actually an indication of how much he really cares that it bothers him in that way. I don't think this is a "numbers" question, more I think he's in need of some reassurance.

In reviewing the latest answers, I think desjardins' latest comment, especially the last paragraph where she says "Maybe this is more benign..." is a good point. From our latest conversation, I'm thinking that maybe more the case than that he's interested in every specific and gory detail.

If I could anonymously mark "best answers" I would choose the following, as they've most precisely clarified the issue, detailed our situation, and given me good suggestions for moving forward with this whole topic:

-- amelioration's first comment
-- jessamyn
-- EmpressCallypygos' comment
-- JamesWilson123 (really the MOST helpful to me understanding Boyfriend's thought process, because as he said, he's BTDT)
-- Ookseer
-- katiecat
-- desjardin's last comment

Thanks all, I hope this helps clarify things.

posted by jessamyn at 12:00 PM on June 18

If I turn out to be correct, due to my vast experience with kinky guys, you might need to draw him out. Don't tell him that "Bob liked to spank me" - tell him you liked to be spanked. You liked to tie guys up.* Don't make it about your exes, but make sure not to impart any judgment on their proclivities, even if the relationship was otherwise a trainwreck. Leave names out of it wherever possible. Don't say that your weirdo ex was a crossdresser because if NewGuy is into it, he will never, ever tell you, and I've seen that lead to divorce. Wait until he brings it up to say that it's not your cup of tea.

A lot of kinky guys, especially submissives, are really really really shy about their fantasies. I've been with my husband for five years and just the other day I found out something new that he'd thought was "too weird" to tell me (it wasn't; no idea what he was worried about). Of course, there may be stuff you've done that you didn't like, stuff you've never done that you know you won't like, and stuff you find repulsive. I'm not suggesting you lie about any of this just to draw him out, but the more neutral you can be, the better. Turn the conversation away from your past and towards his future. Ask questions. "Have you ever thought of...," "would you like to try..."

Do something with him that you've never done before. ANNOUNCE THIS CLEARLY. "I've never done this before, but I'd really like to do this with you." If he thinks you've already done everything you want to do with other guys, then what new ground is left for him? (If you really have done everything you ever wanted to do with other guys, I think this is an appropriate time for a white lie. It's also important to stress that previous activities are different and better with your new guy.)

*This is if you did in fact do anything out of the ordinary - I'm totally making an assumption here.
posted by desjardins at 9:34 AM on June 19