Hondas and recommended service maintenance schedules, do you believe in them?

June 17, 2009 6:08 PM

Hondas and recommended service maintenance schedules, do you believe in them? I've got a 1991 standard Hatchback, 169,000 miles. and i've done every single schedule maintenance. never had a problem with anything unexpected happening (which is why i do it). Now i'm wondering if there's a better (read: cheaper) way to do this, without sacrificing quality? I don't know any mechanics, don't want to it myself, but am curious if there's an alternative. Thanks.
posted by holdenjordahl to travel & transportation (14 comments total)

The big deal with Hondas is that they have some parts that wear out after a long time. So, if I recall correctly, they need new timing belts every 90K miles or so. So when you go in for your 180K service, they'll swap the belt which will keep your engine from dying an early death. This page has a list of what the maintenance is and why you need it according to Honda.

There's a good chunk of that stuff you can easily do yourself -- battery, air filter, brake fluid, maybe even cooling system -- and stuff you can get done more cheaply than at a dealer -- oil change, brake inspection, tire rotation. I'm just an automotive end-user, but I try to do regular-ish oil changes and brake/tire stuff and save most of the rest of the stuff until I'm already going in for a larger repair.
posted by jessamyn at 6:16 PM on June 17 [1 favorite]

There is no cheaper way to maintain your car than doing it yourself.

If you don't want to do it yourself, you will have to pay and this will always cost more than DIY.

Am I missing something?
posted by torquemaniac at 6:26 PM on June 17

Recommended service maintenance schedules are not a belief. They are fact, based on expected usage / wear on a vehicle. They are probably conservative, with the expectation that people will blow them off as long as possible, the tradeoff being that if you do not catch something with scheduled maintenance, it could fail catastrophically instead, costing major $ (Timing belt for example - depending on engine type).
There are no shortcuts. You can skip maintenance, skip oil changes, sure, and probably be ok. But you are taking a huge risk that for want of some oil, your engine seizes up.
posted by defcom1 at 6:51 PM on June 17

The maintenance schedules are on target, although conservative.

Never, ever skip a scheduled fluid change.

Never, ever get service at a dealer if you can help it (read: you know of an alternate, well recommended, independent service option). Dealers are not bad, just overly, unreasonably expensive.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 6:57 PM on June 17

The thing with maintenance schedules is they're pretty much based around preventative maintenance. Just like it is good for us to go to the Doctor for regular exams/checkups/tests, the same "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

You really have two ways to save money - do it yourself or find someone to do it for cheaper than another mechanic. If you are taking it to the dealer now, then I would suggest finding a local non-dealer Honda Specialist mechanic. If you have zero experience working on cars, then it can be a steep curve learning to do stuff yourself, and it will also be difficult doing things in a reasonable time frame if this is your only car. For example, don't attempt a timing belt change for your first DIY outing - very hard with no knowledge. Spark plug changes are very easy. Oil changes are a step up from there.

I used to own a Honda Civic in the same generation as yours, and I did pretty much all maintenance except timing belt and clutch - those required much more knowledge, tools, and time than I had back then. The car itself was extremely reliable, and I wasn't as religious as you are on the maintenance. The only out of ordinary thing besides normal maintenance was the rotor/distributor going bad, but that was like a $20 part I replaced on my own. But this is where you have to start balancing several things. For example, I would say you could easily spend at least $300 to get basic "shop" tools and supplies to do your basic maintenance, and to do it safely. This means a basic set of tools, and I would suggest buying a brand that has lifetime replacement for breakage like Sears, Lowes, or Home Depot and not cheap Wal Mart tools. Also, you'll need to probably buy a floor jack, jack stands, oil-tub (one with a cap-able reservoir, not a bucket. Most auto parts stores let you dispose of oil for free and you don't want to dump it during transport), and several other basic items that won't necessarily come in a small mechanics tool set.

Also, become acquainted with your local auto parts store, too. Usually they loan tools and such for free - these are great for more major jobs where you don't want to spend money on specialized tools right now - jobs like clutch replacement, valve adjustments, replacing CV boots and other suspension parts where you need to remove tie rods, etc. Plus, these stores can test batteries, alternators, read error codes from the computer, etc for free.

So after looking at your initial costs to DIY, the time spent learning, the time spent making mistakes, and your desire to do such things you may just rather pay someone else. Plus, if you consider that if you bought a new car you could be paying a monthly loan payment, higher insurance, more for getting plates and property taxes...suddenly that few hundred dollars in maintenance on this older vehicle every 6 months or so doesn't look so expensive.

If you decide to just find a mechanic, then find a good one. Get on a Honda message forum out on the net and ask around for reputable mechanics in your area. Or ask on Craigslist. Their prices should be reasonable - and you can look out on the web for general pricing for stuff and make sure things aren't out of whack. Even call a dealer to get a good "high end" cost for the maintenance.

Hope this helps.
posted by JibberJabber at 7:08 PM on June 17 [1 favorite]

Seconding defcom1. Hondas don't demand all that much and they are indeed conservative but if you blow off maintenance bad things happen. My '84 Civic finally broke its timing belt because I neglected that. It had 279 k miles on it when it finally let loose, 110 k after the last timing belt. This turned my engine into a loose assortment of parts and part fragments.

Someone on The Truth about Cars posited that if your car is worth three times the cost of the upcoming year's maintenance, do it; else get rid of the car. I do this but all my maintenance is DIY so when my old Subaru is finally worth less than $500 I will stop doing timing belt changes, and use the car only as a "local service" run-about.
posted by jet_silver at 7:14 PM on June 17

There is no cheaper way to maintain your car than doing it yourself.

This is patently false unless:

1.) You've inherited all of the specialty tools and garage space needed to do the work.

and

2.) Your time is worthless.

The statement would be true, and only true, if you consider paying for scheduled maintenance part of "maintain[ing] your car" yourself.

The cost of scheduled maintenance is very close to nil over the life of the car. Do it and don't look back.
posted by wfrgms at 9:28 PM on June 17

I had an '88 Accord that last I heard is still on the road (I sold it to a friend). I always did the routine maintenance, but at an independent Honda/Acura shop.

We currently have our '06 Odyssey maintained by an indie shop (also specifically a Honda shop), and recently sold an Element that we treated the same way, and the buyer was thrilled to get all those meticulously kept records of the routine maintenance.

Some indies, in my experience, will let you buy a package for the fluid changes that saves you some money over the course of time. Then you don't get tempted to run into Jiffy Lube and have your car effed up by incompetents.

I don't know where you are, but if you're in either the Phoenix area or the Bay Area, I can recommend two reliable independent Honda mechanics.
posted by padraigin at 9:28 PM on June 17

This is patently false unless:

1.) You've inherited all of the specialty tools and garage space needed to do the work.

and

2.) Your time is worthless.

1. Specialty tools? Really? A socket set, screwdrivers and pliers are generally all that's needed. Garage space is optional. I've managed without it for most of my adult life.

2. Garages charge ~$65/hr (varies by location). Protip: You can always do a job in less time than the book rate (what the shop charges).
posted by torquemaniac at 10:21 PM on June 17

2.) Your time is worthless.

That old "my time is worth more" argument almost never makes sense unless you actually get paid for working every waking minute of every day, and if that's the case the logical next step is to take speed so as to decrease all that non-productive time spent sleeping. Related is that old chestnut about it costing Bill Gates more to stop and pick up hundred dollar bill from the ground than to leave it on the ground and carry on to work.

For the rest of us, car maintenance is always cheaper DIY. It's one thing to prefer to spend free time doing other activities, though I personally enjoyed maintenance in a contemplative "me-time" kind of way. But if you want to save money and learn a useful skill set pick up the Hanes or Chilton manual, invite a handy friend over for a six pack while he (or she) talks you through your first job, like an oil change. Buy a decent wrench and socket set from Sears (make sure it has metric, too). Buy other specific tools, like an oil filter wrench, from Harbor Freight, as needed, if you're lucky enough to live near one. Rent really specific single use tools, like pickle forks for ball joints, from a place like Autozone (free with a returnable deposit on the tool last time I was there).

Or consider the cost of not learning maintenance to be what the dealer or mechanic charges.

Note: those places mentioned are all US-specific.
posted by 6550 at 10:49 AM on June 18

FWIW, I did essentially 0 preventative maintenance on my '84 Prelude from 140k-260k before it died (leaking oil into the cylinders). So I got 120k miles out of only replacing catastrophic breakdowns (fuel pump, water pump, timing belt, clutch, power steering belt) and obviously needed parts (tires, brakes, oil when the light came on). I ran that long on only 2 oil filters, 2 sparks plug changes and replacing the oil when it leaked out (which was faster and faster over time).

I don't recommend it, but it is possible to do less than the recommended maintenance, but, literally, Your Mileage May Vary.

(I'm good now and all my cars get their regularly scheduled maintenance- you should too)
posted by Four Flavors at 3:43 PM on June 18

Maintaining your car responsibly according to the schedule is the absolute best thing you can do for it.
Your Honda doesn't require any synthetic or expensive fluids, so it's cheap already.
Be careful about saving money, though. As it was mentioned upthread, you don't want to go to Jiffy Lube to save money and wind up replacing your damaged oil pan when their hamfisted animals strip out your oil drain plug.
When I worked at an indy shop, we were right around the corner from a Pep Boys and we got a ton of business from their former customers bringing their cars to us to fix Pep Boys' mistakes.
What you're looking for is "a good value" not "cheap service." You definately get what you pay for in this industry.
If you had a brand-new Honda, I'd suggest that you take it to the dealer at least occasionally, since there will inevitably be updated parts, software, recalls etc that you'd want to take advantage of. At this point, though, just take it anywhere with a good reputation and follow the service schedule set forth in your owners manual.



You can always do a job in less time than the book rate
That is false. Just for example, Audi says that replacing a 1.8t engine takes 12 hours. I've never met a single tech who can do it in less than 20.
Book times are usually generated based on warranty time allowances and are extremely conservative. Most shops take that warranty time and multiply it by at least 1.5 to make sure they're not short changing themselves and allowing time for the unexpected.
posted by Jon-o at 1:54 PM on June 19

hi folks.

thanks for the good feedback and i hope this post is still out there in the ether.

having read all this, i've decided conservative (what i'm doing) is best but going to a dealer (which i was doing), is not the most economical...

...so, does anyone know a reliable (honest, with integrity, et cetera) Honda mechanic in the Long Beach area?

thanks.
posted by holdenjordahl at 10:15 PM on July 2

I know this is an old thread but I will add my 2 cents for the archives.

DIY: It has nothing to do with time or money in my opinion. Folks that like doing stuff themselves will do so--even if they have the money to pay someone or they are short on time themselves (they will make the time because...they get off on the DIY aspect). People who are not inclined to DIY will SAY they will do it and then let the car rot. Then, it's "oh well, bummer...but I wanted a new car anyway."

Me, I used to do some basic stuff myself but I did not enjoy it so I found myself a reasonably-charging local mechanic and never looked back. Now I give him ALL my business including things like tires. Don't think these guys don't notice that you go the the wally world tire center to save $25 on a set of 4 tires, or that you go to jiffy to save $2 on oil changes. But then when your car makes a funny sound that needs and hour of diagnostics and costs nothing fix, you come to him. That ain't cutting it. I know this guy appreciates my biz because many is the time when he did some small repair and said, "I didn't get a chance to make out bill. I'll get it from you next time." And personally, I like dealing with people this way than just always looking at the bottom line of every single transaction.

Which leads me to...

Scheduled Maintenance: Just do it. My 1991 Accord is not pristine by any means (some rust in spots, a big old dent, and the front seats are on the stained side of life) but it runs as well as the day I drove it off the lot and does not burn an spot of oil between changes. For a while, I thought about stopping the big stuff (like timing belt) but I have reconsidered. Sure, the car ain't worth much on blue book but to replace it with a similarly reliable car, I'd probably have to spend at least $6K. Even then, I could be getting someone else's problem and I have a folder full of service receipts dating back to 1991 that says my car is taken care of. It would not surprise me if I got another 5 years of service from it but I am betting on more like 10 years (drive about 8k miles per year so it's not out of the question).
posted by a_day_late at 4:57 AM on November 14