A few questions about cars.

June 15, 2009 9:23 PM

I have a few questions about buying a new or used car.

Having recently had my car totalled by a 17-year-old with no license who pulled out in front of me, I need a new or used car. I have a few questions.

1. Having grown up in a "buy American" family - yes yes, I know - I'm not very familiar with Toyota, Honda, etc. I've had a Saturn SL1, a Chevy Lumina Euro, a Mercury Topaz, and the one that was wrecked was a Chevy Cobalt. My parents have had Fords, Lincolns, and Mercuries, most of which are out of my price range. (I'm looking for the under-$20,000 range.) For reasons I don't understand, they were always anti-Pontiac and anti-Chrysler, perhaps due to bad experiences. How do I get comfortable with other brands? Should I just take them out for test drives?

2. Back when I went to buy my Cobalt, brand new, I was intending to get an Aveo. However, my parents (who were signing with me) insisted I should never get the cheapest car they make, because it's usually crap and also unsafe. Does this hold true? Do the cheapest cars tend to fall apart faster and also perform less safely in car accidents? My mom is convinced that I or my friend would be dead if we'd been in an Aveo in the accident.

3. My parents will likely co-sign on this car too and so have some say in what kind of car I get. Mom wants me to get a huge car for more protection, despite the fact that I was not terribly injured. I am far more comfortable in smaller or midsize cars, like the ones I've owned, than I am in huge cars like a Grand Marquis or a Crown Victoria. As a compromise one model I'm looking at is a Saturn Astra. Does it drive and park like a smaller car? (I haven't actually seen one in person.)

As my dad's pointed out to me, while I loved my Cobalt, I'm not sure I want another one. He thinks I may have flashbacks being in a car with an identical dash. I'd just have to test drive one to know for sure.

4. Edmunds.com and Motor Trend don't have the safety ratings for the Astra. Motor Trend says "they're coming soon." Where can I find safety ratings for cars that haven't had them published yet? Do they exist?

5. Would you buy a car from CarMax? Are they trustworthy?

posted by IndigoRain to travel & transportation (25 comments total)

1. Of COURSE you should take other brands out for test drives. But do some research, too. See what the car blogs and consumer reports are saying. I like AutoBlog.

2. Cheaper cars may very well fall apart faster than the upper models, but that doesn't mean they're all rolling deathmobiles. Some cheaper models may even be better than more expensive cars from other manufacturers. You just have to do your research and test it to see how you like it.

3. I don't know anything about Saturn Astra's, but you're going to have to test drive it. Not everyone's experience will be the same. Also, you might want to remind your parents that you're not going to be any safer if you're stuck driving a car you don't feel comfortable in. You need to be able to maneuver the thing and get out of scary situations. If you're used to driving a smaller car, I'd suggest sticking with a smaller car.

4. I searched for "Astra safety ratings" and found a ton of car sites... but every single one of them said "not available" once I actually looked at the safety section. My guess is you'll have to wait.

5. No personal experience with CarMax, but I've heard good things about them.
posted by katillathehun at 10:23 PM on June 15

Oh, and also?

Mom wants me to get a huge car for more protection

He thinks I may have flashbacks being in a car with an identical dash.

My mom is convinced that I or my friend would be dead if we'd been in an Aveo in the accident.

Your parents need to eeeeeeeeeeease up on the clutch.
posted by katillathehun at 10:26 PM on June 15 [5 favorites has favorites]

1. Some of the cars you list aren't actually American cars, if by that you mean built in the states. The Saturn was, the Lumina was built in Ontario, the Topaz probably was built in Ontario as well, while the Cobalt was built in the states. Also remember that a lot of "Japanese" cars are actually built here in the states these days.

Nearly every car built these days is reasonably reliable and safe. Use consumer reports and other sources to check the reliability and satisfaction indexes for the cars you're considering.

2. While there are some statistics that suggest that larger cars fare a bit better in accidents, the car that is going to fare the best is the car you're most comfortable driving. A smaller nimbler, lighter car might be able to stop quicker or steer around a crash you might otherwise be part of; on the other hand, when the Escalade hits you head on, more mass is better. All of that said, a lot of "small cars" actually weigh nearly as much as their full-size brethren. And some of the largest vehicles, like the '96 through '01 Ford light trucks, are abysmal in accidents.

3. Do you really think you'll have flashbacks? It doesn't sound like you were that traumatized.

4. Try Consumer Reports?

5. No experience. Generally speaking, you'll get the best deals by buying from a private party and having the car inspected by an independent mechanic. You will generally get the best financing deals on a used car by approaching your bank or credit union and finding what their rates are.

If it were me, I would look for a lightly used '06 - '08 Honda, Toyota or Subaru in the size that you're comfortable with, something with a couple of years left on the warranty, and not worry. One thing to keep in mind is that the big American manufacturers are in a world of hurt right now, and your local dealer may not be there in another year, or even the manufacturer itself.
posted by maxwelton at 10:27 PM on June 15

I REALLY recommend you check out the Consumer Reports new and used car guides. They allow you to see third-party neutral reviews of safety, efficiency, reliability, comfort and price. You're not going to get top ratings in every area on a cheap car, but you can get top ratings in the areas that are most important to you, including safety, if you are willing to sacrifice in other areas.

As for turning Japanese: A car is a car. The difference between a 1994 Ford and a 2008 Ford is greater than the difference between a 2008 Ford and a 2008 Toyota.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 10:28 PM on June 15

I've been looking for 2 months and and I plan to buy this fall. The 2 best value in new cars in that class are the 2009 Imprezza, power locks/windows. Air, AWD, side curtain bags, and most importantly Dynamic Stability Control - under 20K and the 2009 Pontiac (yes Pontiac) Vibe, a twin of the Toyota Matrix, upgraded engine, Air, Stabililty control, power locks/windows, side bags and all manner of dealer incentives as the Pontiac will no longer be produced (but repaired thanks to so many common Toyota parts) - under20K.

Dealbreakers for me are Stability Control and Side Curtain Airbags
posted by Neiltupper at 10:52 PM on June 15 [1 favorite has favorites]

I don't have a lot of car buying experience, but I bought my first new car last Spring. I ended up getting a (2008) Mazda 3, which I can't recommend highly enough. Like croutonsupafreak above, I would definitely recommend checking out Consumer Reports.

Things to keep in mind:

1) Certain companies have things to prove. This means a company wanting to prove how reliable it is (Hyundai) may give you a better warranty than one that doesn't need to (Toyota). Of course, you should be satisfied by the car's reliability reviews before buying.

2) You can play dealers off of each other, over email. This means you can negotiate with much more information than you would have being personally at the dealership and you can walk into a dealership with an agreed upon price.

3) There are a ton of deals to be had given the current state of the economy and especially the car industry.
posted by null terminated at 11:06 PM on June 15

You've driven and been exposed to some spectacularly awful automobiles. Seriously, the brands and models you mention are a whose who of bloated American largesse. These are cars which have survived into the 21st century on the backs of willing dupes and suckers too wrapped up in the "buy American" mantra to see that they were in fact weakening American brands by not allowing market forces to properly exert themselves.

In other words, you're over due for exposure to properly engineered automobiles.

Get thee down to an import car lot and do some test driving. But ideas like "bigger/heavier is safer" out of your head. That theory has NEVER been true of automobiles.

Your budget is $20k. That will buy a lot of car nowadays. I suggest you lean toward a used Honda or Toyota. You'll save thousands over new and get a car that will last many years while at the same time providing safety and comfort heads above anything domestic.
posted by wfrgms at 11:27 PM on June 15

I would just stop listening to your family.

I wouldn't call any of these cars you've been in particularly safe or even nice to drive. I would really suggest test driving a Honda, Audi, or VW (in no particular order).
posted by floam at 3:55 AM on June 16 [1 favorite has favorites]

Do the cheapest cars tend to fall apart faster and also perform less safely in car accidents?
Yeah! I've worked on a couple Aveos and they're extremely flimsy, compared to just about any other car out there. Cobalts also have finger-width gaps between their body panels. That's an indication of woeful build quality.

If you're bent on buying a new American car, go to a Ford dealer. The Astra might be a good car, but Saturn is under the axe these days and companies like Pontiac and Saturn aren't forecasted to survive the GM cutbacks.

Big cars aren't the safest, by any means. Boats like a Crown Vic handle really poorly and have a lot of inertia. In certain accidents, they might behave like a tank, but they're harder to keep out of an accident given their size and pudding suspension.

One of the best values out there is Hyundai. On their new cars, their build and interior quality far outclasses their domestic competitors. I drove a brand new Sonata for a week, and it's probably about 90% as good as a Toyota and about 80% as good as a Honda. It was quiet, comfy, got great gas mileage, the interior fit and finish was surprisingly nice, and it rode really smoothly. I previously had a Pontiac Vibe as a rental, and as a point of comparison, the wind noise in the Vibe was off the scale, there were absolutely ZERO soft touch points in the cabin, the ride was harsh, and the seat felt like it was made from some sub IKEA grade particle wood. None of the seams in the interior panels were smooth or even, either.

Consumer Reports is going to be a great help to you, but there is NO substitute for test driving cars. Test drive some used or certified-pre-owned Asian cars. Compare their handling, noise-vibration-harshness isolation, their driving dynamics (sporty vs smooth), and build quality. Quality isn't some invisible factor that "other people" know how to discern, either. If panels and surfaces rattle look/feel flimsy or cheap, if engine and noise intrudes into the cabin dramatically, and if it's hard to get comfortable in the drivers seat, you might be in a crappy car.
posted by Jon-o at 4:20 AM on June 16 [1 favorite has favorites]

if engine and noise intrudes
er... If engine and road noise intrude....
posted by Jon-o at 4:34 AM on June 16

Since you mention the Aveo, I want to say this: I was intending to buy a hatchback a few years ago. The Aveo was so ill-equipped in terms of safety features (ABS, the number of airbags) that I wouldn't have even considered it. I also considered the Toyota Yaris, but when I test drove it, it was clear that the build quality was pretty poor. In that class, I was most impressed by the Honda Fit (well equipped even at base, nicely put together) and the Hyundai Accent. Seriously, I could get a completely decked-out Accent with leather seats for the price of a Honda. Hyundai is, or was a few years ago, on the up-and-up, and very affordable and comes with a stellar warranty. I guess my point is that you should throw out your "buy American" philosophy and just go out and test drive every car in the class that you're interested in instead. Driving experiences, and quality, vary greatly.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 5:04 AM on June 16

My wife has a Hyundai Santa Fe. I was, until I drove the car, wholly anti Hyundai. While still a 'bigger' vehicle, the Santa Fe is not a terrible car. It's got some quirks, but I think that Hyundai is a very good place to start looking. They're cheap, reliable, and the warranty is a major selling point. The guys at the local service bay are pretty friendly too, and have given me various washers and whatnot that I need to service the car myself.

I own a 2003 Mazda Protege5, which is a perfectly passable, speedy little car. Probably would be viewed as a deathbox by your parents. I also like Mazdas.
posted by Geckwoistmeinauto at 5:12 AM on June 16

Regarding safety and bigger vehicles: I have a full-size truck, a 1970 Impala, and a CRX. In the impala, I have to drive about a half-mile back so I don't ahve to worry about rear-ending someone, and that's with upgraded brakes. The truck stops and turns like the Queen Elizabeth. I've been in multiple accidents in those two. The CRX, however, despite being a rusty little oversize roller skate, has gotten me *out* of more potential accidents than I can count (and I can count pretty high). The only accident I've had in seven years of driving it was being rear-ended at a stop light.

In other words, don't discount the effect of handling - being able to dodge trouble- in your calculations.

All that said, my wife has a base-model Civic. Great car.
posted by notsnot at 5:41 AM on June 16 [1 favorite has favorites]

I just bought a new Honda Element and am very pleased. While I understand these aren't everyone's cup of tea, it suited my needs perfectly and was very reasonably priced. I ended up buying new because all of the used Elements were almost the same price as Honda's really hold value. I have owned two Civics and my wife drives a Pilot. All great cars.

You really have to get out and test drive everything. I remember test driving a Saturn long ago, and thought it was fine, until my wife hopped in back to see how the kids ride would be and she saw how horribly uncomfortable it was.

Oh, my Element came in under $20k after trading in my old Ford Ranger pickup. If I were you, I would look at the Civic or the Element.
posted by genefinder at 5:42 AM on June 16 [1 favorite has favorites]

I come from a strictly Honda family, so I'm biased, but I completely agree with maxwelton up there. The thing about Hondas is that they're just built so well. I can really tell it when I'm in other cars. The inside space isn't planned or distributed as well or as comfortably in other cars; I've been able to fit all sorts of crazy stuff in there that I might have had to use a station wagon for otherwise.

Re: safety, as an example, I'm in Wisconsin, and I've always been pleased with how well a smaller Civic has done in getting around slushy, curvy inclines; I know I wouldn't have the same control in several cars of comparable size. They just feel safer because they distribute their weight well and run smoothly -- and forREVvur. When I was looking for my first "all mine" car, I test drove a bunch of Fords and the like. I ended up going with a Civic that was something like six years older. I'm now into an eight-year-old Accord with 177k and it still purrs like a charm.

That said, I'm inclined to look at Hyundais as well, as they've definitely gotten better and offered more options in the last few years. I know that in '04 or so my (extremely Consumer Reportsy, typically Buy American-y) in-laws bought an Elantra, mainly for the gas mileage, and on first glance I couldn't tell it apart from a Saab. The insides were comfy and solid as well, and as far as I can tell the car is still running well.

And if you're concerned about buying American, just think about all of the workers who will still have jobs at US Honda and Toyota plants because they make better cars more efficiently -- something that some of the American companies seem to insist they can't do because it would "cost too much money to change now." Don't forget that a lot of American manufacturers use looooooads of foreign parts, either. I'm curious to compare the sourcing, etc. of American-made Japanese cars with that of a Mexican Chrysler et. al.
posted by Madamina at 9:09 AM on June 16

nthing the others that have suggested Consumer Reports. They choose their recommendations based on performance, safety ratings, and upkeep issues. You can get an online subscription for about $6/month and cancel anytime.

I've never bought a car from CarMax, but when I was doing research on our latest purchase, it looked like CarMax's prices tended to be on the high side (a premium for their "no-haggle" policy, I guess). We went with the local Honda dealer and got a pre-owned minivan at a superb price. FWIW, the sales rep was very low-pressure and we had a really great buying experience.
posted by puritycontrol at 9:39 AM on June 16

Vote for 2nd hand Honda, Toyota, Subaru. My wife loves her Honda Fit, I have an Accord; Elements and Civics are great. Don't be fooled into buying a GM/Chrysler just because it's American. Lots of Hondas and Toyotas are built in the US these days. My wife's Fit is built amazingly strong (5 star crash rating), she walked out of it without a mark when someone rear-ended her on the highway. I've owned German cars and Japanese cars, rented Italian, Spanish and US cars. The comparison is laughable, I've yet to see a US car I'd spend my money on.

But go for a test drive. That's the only way you can tell. Your parents need to lighten up, they may be co-signing, but it's your money and you'll be driving it.
posted by arcticseal at 10:27 AM on June 16 [1 favorite has favorites]

wfrgms: "You've driven and been exposed to some spectacularly awful automobiles. Seriously, the brands and models you mention are a whose who of bloated American largesse. "

Oh, I am quite aware. We've had plenty of lemons and problems. That Lincoln Continental I learned to drive in? It spent more time in the shop than out. Later we read a Consumer Reports article that said to avoid all Continentals from 1989, 90, and 91. I believe ours was a 90.

Jon-o, Saturn was purchased by Penske, so it may not be going under.

Maxwelton - I know that some "American" cars aren't built entirely here, hence the "yes yes, I know" in my question. ;)

Thank you all for your replies... you've given me a lot to think about. I still welcome more answers.
posted by IndigoRain at 2:01 PM on June 16

Re: Pontiacs, you might look at a used Grand Am. I have a 2001 model and my wife drives it over 100 miles a day back and forth to school. We're coming up on 150K and it still runs like a champ!
posted by CwgrlUp at 6:33 PM on June 16

I am on my second Honda (an Element, which I like a lot), and have owned a bottom-of-the-line Hyundai Accent, which I thought was a great car for the money. The big difference is that the Hyundai had shockingly low resale value. Hondas, as mentioned, hold their value really well.

Personally, and after a fair amount of research, my big issue with car safety is air bags: I would never have one without six air-bags. Most cars now have four. The side ones (the extra two) are essentially what protect your head.
posted by Lizzle at 1:06 PM on June 17

Give us some more constraints and criteria -- "small-to-midsized" is pretty broad! You want a hatchback? Coupe? Wagon? Four-doors? Gotta be new? Automatic transmission? Manual? All-wheel drive? Rear-wheel drive? Don't know? Sporty? Fast? Handles well? Great stereo? Luxurious? Style-conscious? What???

I got a loaded '05 Infiniti G35 Coupe for $19k a year ago. Found it on cars.com or maybe it was AutoTrader. $20k is a pretty nice budget if you're willing to go used and/or drive a couple hours in your car search.

But the easy answer is a new Honda Civic.
posted by LordSludge at 2:14 PM on June 19

That's just it LordSludge - I don't know what I want! 4-doors yes and an automatic transmission with power windows, locks, etc. Front or all wheel drive would be fine. It doesn't have to be new. My only other constraint is it HAS to have either MP3 CD playback capability or else a plug for my iPod, but I could always get a car without that and upgrade the stereo.

After reading this thread I'm really admiring the Honda Fit. I haven't seen it in person so I don't know if it's small enough for me. My neighbor has a Chrysler Pacifica and I think it might be a little too big for me, but that's without having driven it.
posted by IndigoRain at 12:08 PM on June 20

Okay, while I was out today I saw a Honda Fit, it looks like a good-sized car.
posted by IndigoRain at 8:27 PM on June 20

The Honda Fit is an awesome little car. It's one of Car and Driver's 10 Best.
posted by Jon-o at 4:03 PM on June 22 [1 favorite has favorites]

NYT has a good article today that not all Big 3 cars are made in the US, and some foreign cars are made by Americans. David Pogue of the NYT loves his Honda Fit, he bought it to replace his Prius.
posted by arcticseal at 12:25 PM on June 24 [1 favorite has favorites]