Would you stay in a job you love, if it paid much less than the going rate?
June 13, 2009 8:55 AM Subscribe
Would you stay in a job you love, if it paid much less than the going rate?
I currently have a job I love, from the 'job' standpoint. I have decent hours, little work to take home, and a boss that pretty much leaves me alone to do whatever I want. I know I am good at what I do, love the people I work with, and from all respects but one, the job is great. The one respect is a big one though: I am earning about 10k less than I would be in a government job of the same type.
This was fine for me when I was just out of school and so desperate for any work at all that I was grateful for anything. Now though, I have better skills and experience. After three years of trying, I finally got on the approved list to apply for the government jobs. I have some friends who already have these jobs though, and they are telling me it is a bad time right now, that the freedom I have in my present position will almost certainly not happen, that the red tape and paperwork for every little thing will drive me up the wall, and that I will be looking at postings in parts of the city which might be hard for me to get to since I don't drive.
I don't know what to do. I know that in this economy, I am lucky to have anything. And really, except for the pay issue, I do love my job. And it has been an eye-opener for me to consider that after all this effort to get on the list, I might not want the government job after all. Is the extra 10k worth the extra aggravation those jobs might bring into my life? If I can manage on the non-competitive but still serviceable pay I am currently getting, might it be better from a 'life happiness' standpoint to stay where I am until I can find something at a bigger organization in the private sector that might be more like what I am doing now but with somewhat more competitive pay?
Fwiw my parents seem to think I should sell my soul for the extra 10k and take the first government, union job which comes along. I am not sure I agree with them on this.
I currently have a job I love, from the 'job' standpoint. I have decent hours, little work to take home, and a boss that pretty much leaves me alone to do whatever I want. I know I am good at what I do, love the people I work with, and from all respects but one, the job is great. The one respect is a big one though: I am earning about 10k less than I would be in a government job of the same type.
This was fine for me when I was just out of school and so desperate for any work at all that I was grateful for anything. Now though, I have better skills and experience. After three years of trying, I finally got on the approved list to apply for the government jobs. I have some friends who already have these jobs though, and they are telling me it is a bad time right now, that the freedom I have in my present position will almost certainly not happen, that the red tape and paperwork for every little thing will drive me up the wall, and that I will be looking at postings in parts of the city which might be hard for me to get to since I don't drive.
I don't know what to do. I know that in this economy, I am lucky to have anything. And really, except for the pay issue, I do love my job. And it has been an eye-opener for me to consider that after all this effort to get on the list, I might not want the government job after all. Is the extra 10k worth the extra aggravation those jobs might bring into my life? If I can manage on the non-competitive but still serviceable pay I am currently getting, might it be better from a 'life happiness' standpoint to stay where I am until I can find something at a bigger organization in the private sector that might be more like what I am doing now but with somewhat more competitive pay?
Fwiw my parents seem to think I should sell my soul for the extra 10k and take the first government, union job which comes along. I am not sure I agree with them on this.
I think it depends on the absolute value of your salary. The difference between $30,000 a year and $40,000 a year could be huge in terms of living standard. The difference between $80,000 and $90,000, not so much. Are you living comfortably already, or just squeaking by?
If you are not struggling just to make ends meet, though, my advice would be to stay in a job you love. Going from that to a job or environment that you hate is not worth $10,000 a year extra in my book.
posted by FishBike at 9:04 AM on June 13, 2009
If you are not struggling just to make ends meet, though, my advice would be to stay in a job you love. Going from that to a job or environment that you hate is not worth $10,000 a year extra in my book.
posted by FishBike at 9:04 AM on June 13, 2009
"much less than the going rate" is not meaningful way to frame this. The government jobs are not like your job except for the pay; they're different in every way except for the skill set. Your friends who have the government jobs are advising you to stay where you are. I'd probably listen to them.
It sounds like your uncertainty is mostly driven by your parents. Their judgment may not be so great on this topic. Respect them, hear them out, but don't let them make your decisions for you.
posted by jon1270 at 9:05 AM on June 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
It sounds like your uncertainty is mostly driven by your parents. Their judgment may not be so great on this topic. Respect them, hear them out, but don't let them make your decisions for you.
posted by jon1270 at 9:05 AM on June 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Yes. Absolutely. Every single time.
Whoring out your happiness for a few extra dollars is horrible way to waste a life.
posted by rokusan at 9:07 AM on June 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
Whoring out your happiness for a few extra dollars is horrible way to waste a life.
posted by rokusan at 9:07 AM on June 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
It really depends what 10k means to you.
I mean, I could probably be making a very solid chunk more if I found myself a new job right now. But I love working with the people I work with, I like what I get to do, I like the problems I solve, and I love having an incredibly flexible schedule that lets me enjoy my life without having to worry about my job interfering. I don't know exactly what dollar value I'd put on that, but it's definitely a lot more than 10k-minus-taxes.
On the other hand, I already make more than enough to take care of rent, loans, savings, and fun. So while yes, it'd be nice to have a bit more and save a bit more, there's no part of my life that "wants more money." This may or may not be true of you.
posted by Tomorrowful at 9:08 AM on June 13, 2009
I mean, I could probably be making a very solid chunk more if I found myself a new job right now. But I love working with the people I work with, I like what I get to do, I like the problems I solve, and I love having an incredibly flexible schedule that lets me enjoy my life without having to worry about my job interfering. I don't know exactly what dollar value I'd put on that, but it's definitely a lot more than 10k-minus-taxes.
On the other hand, I already make more than enough to take care of rent, loans, savings, and fun. So while yes, it'd be nice to have a bit more and save a bit more, there's no part of my life that "wants more money." This may or may not be true of you.
posted by Tomorrowful at 9:08 AM on June 13, 2009
Response by poster: I could pay off my student loan in a year with the extra 10k. I could pay it off in two years without the 10k. I feel like I am managing okay on what I earn now. It would be nice to be able to buy a home instead of renting, or to take more vacations. But as far as day to day life with ability to pay my bills, have a little fun and be generally okay, I can do this all now. I am single and have no dependents. The time may come when this would change, but if that should happen, I would probably have a partner whose salary could be added to my own.
posted by JoannaC at 9:13 AM on June 13, 2009
posted by JoannaC at 9:13 AM on June 13, 2009
What would you do with that extra 10k? Would it eliminate a great deal of stress in your life to have that extra money?
My instinct is to say that if you are happy, stay where you are. You can always move on to a different job if your situation changes. Maybe it won't be one of those government/union jobs you are thinking about right now, but it might be a similar work environment with better pay. A place you enjoy spending your 8-9 hours a day and being able to have a life outside of work is worth its weight in gold, in my opinion. That is, as long as you aren't constantly stressing about money.
posted by katemcd at 9:15 AM on June 13, 2009
My instinct is to say that if you are happy, stay where you are. You can always move on to a different job if your situation changes. Maybe it won't be one of those government/union jobs you are thinking about right now, but it might be a similar work environment with better pay. A place you enjoy spending your 8-9 hours a day and being able to have a life outside of work is worth its weight in gold, in my opinion. That is, as long as you aren't constantly stressing about money.
posted by katemcd at 9:15 AM on June 13, 2009
what jon1270 and rokusan said. Happiness at work is worth much more than $10K. The lack of red tape and paperwork repays lifetimes of toil.
posted by scruss at 9:26 AM on June 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by scruss at 9:26 AM on June 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
If you are such a good fit with your current company, and you've given them three years of service that proves you are a pleasant, productive asset, can you ask for a raise? Maybe not the whole $10,000, but if a little extra money would make your decision to stay easier, then there's no harm in asking. Don't mention the other job you are looking at, just make a case for yourself based on your previous work.
posted by alygator at 9:27 AM on June 13, 2009
posted by alygator at 9:27 AM on June 13, 2009
Best answer: I am assuming that you are referring to being a teacher for TDSB versus using your skills privately? One advantage of TDSB is the security, the guareenteed pay and the extended vacation time versus what is offered you in the private sector. There is also a possible career progession to upper management.
I was in a somewhat similar position when I was first starting out, working in a job I loved with great flexibility but less money than I should have been earning. I gave it up (sadly) because I realised my goals included things outside of a great work environment. My awesome low-paying job was preventing me from buying a house, having a family and furthering my education. Resenting the boss for not paying what I was worth coloured how much I enjoyed my job ultimately. YMMV.
posted by saucysault at 9:28 AM on June 13, 2009
I was in a somewhat similar position when I was first starting out, working in a job I loved with great flexibility but less money than I should have been earning. I gave it up (sadly) because I realised my goals included things outside of a great work environment. My awesome low-paying job was preventing me from buying a house, having a family and furthering my education. Resenting the boss for not paying what I was worth coloured how much I enjoyed my job ultimately. YMMV.
posted by saucysault at 9:28 AM on June 13, 2009
Stay where you are - being happy at your job, which is after all where you spend most of your waking hours, goes a long way to being happy in general. Also consider the value you put on such things as not having to take your work home and flexibilty. Ignore your parents - unless they pay some of your living expenses and thus have a vested interest in getting you into a better paid job so they can stop supporting you they can't really comment.
posted by koahiatamadl at 9:29 AM on June 13, 2009
posted by koahiatamadl at 9:29 AM on June 13, 2009
I agree with alygator (in part). Why not apply for one of the more lucrative government jobs and use it as leverage for a raise at your current employer? Explain that you don't want to leave and would take less than offered at the new job, but that you would like more than you make now. It's a perfectly reasonable request. So, the short answer is: why can't you have both?
posted by B-squared at 9:37 AM on June 13, 2009
posted by B-squared at 9:37 AM on June 13, 2009
If you were asking about going into something you're certain you'd dislike, for the extra money, I'd say hell no, don't do it, but if this is only your second or third job after college it's not a bad idea to check out different environments. You might have a very different experience to your friends, you might not, but you won't know til you try. If you get the job and you hate it, at least you'll know for next time...
However, I can testify to the fact that spending five days a week in a job you don't enjoy is purgatory, and it certainly isn't worth an extra 10k (unless you're seriously on the breadline). So if you do go for it don't do it for the money, do it as a challenge and a chance to develop your career, and have an exit plan (e.g. savings) at the ready if it turns out to be a bad fit.
posted by freya_lamb at 9:37 AM on June 13, 2009
However, I can testify to the fact that spending five days a week in a job you don't enjoy is purgatory, and it certainly isn't worth an extra 10k (unless you're seriously on the breadline). So if you do go for it don't do it for the money, do it as a challenge and a chance to develop your career, and have an exit plan (e.g. savings) at the ready if it turns out to be a bad fit.
posted by freya_lamb at 9:37 AM on June 13, 2009
Choose happiness every time you can. That extra ten grand might buy you a TV you never have time to watch, or holidays you never have the energy to take.
posted by Iteki at 9:41 AM on June 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Iteki at 9:41 AM on June 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Yes, I would stay in the job I love.
Sorry, scratch that. I am staying in the job I love, even though I know I could earn more doing something else. No regrets so far.
posted by voltairemodern at 9:47 AM on June 13, 2009
Sorry, scratch that. I am staying in the job I love, even though I know I could earn more doing something else. No regrets so far.
posted by voltairemodern at 9:47 AM on June 13, 2009
> But I love working with the people I work with, I like what I get to do, I like the problems I solve, and I love having an incredibly flexible schedule that lets me enjoy my life without having to worry about my job interfering.
Let me add a thought about the bold part: make sure this isn't the real reason you love your job. I stayed in a couple of my early joe jobs much longer than I should have because I liked the people I worked with. We're very loyal to our colleagues/friends, that's human nature, and that can outweigh the drawbacks of a job we'd not like otherwise. But if you changed jobs, you'd start new relationships.
Just a thought.
posted by Decimask at 10:00 AM on June 13, 2009
Let me add a thought about the bold part: make sure this isn't the real reason you love your job. I stayed in a couple of my early joe jobs much longer than I should have because I liked the people I worked with. We're very loyal to our colleagues/friends, that's human nature, and that can outweigh the drawbacks of a job we'd not like otherwise. But if you changed jobs, you'd start new relationships.
Just a thought.
posted by Decimask at 10:00 AM on June 13, 2009
Unless you're not comfortable with your current money-situation (as in scraping by), no way in hell would I jump ship. I hate my job and you have no idea the way that can totally affect every aspect of your life. You might have a little more money but if you're too depressed to spend it, it doesn't make a damn.
posted by CwgrlUp at 10:01 AM on June 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by CwgrlUp at 10:01 AM on June 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
I spent 8 years in the prime of my life in a job that I hated because I felt that I couldn't make it on a lower salary. At the end of it, I was nowhere I wanted to be in my life and all I what I had to show for it was a couple of nicer guitars than I would have had, and maybe a few nicer vacations than I would have had. But let me emphasize: at age 38, after 12 years of higher education, I was nowhere I wanted to be in my life. Finally, my salary and job advancement was beginning to suffer because my total indifference to my work didn't allow me to put out the kind of energy this job required at the upper management level. I made a decision to list everything I wanted in life, personally and professionally; logically and dispassionately, it was clear that my current job couldn't provide these things.
Now, I work for less money and life is wonderful. The money issues work themselves out if everything else is going well. I don't need to come home and treat myself to expensive things because I don't have this gaping hole in my soul anymore. And I am so much more successful, because I am doing something that I feel is worth putting my energy into. And, as an aside (though it's much less important to me now), I suspect that long term I'll probably advance further and make more money because I am putting my heart into my work.
Any freaking Hallmark TV special can tell you that it's not worth leaving something you love for the money.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:43 AM on June 13, 2009 [5 favorites]
Now, I work for less money and life is wonderful. The money issues work themselves out if everything else is going well. I don't need to come home and treat myself to expensive things because I don't have this gaping hole in my soul anymore. And I am so much more successful, because I am doing something that I feel is worth putting my energy into. And, as an aside (though it's much less important to me now), I suspect that long term I'll probably advance further and make more money because I am putting my heart into my work.
Any freaking Hallmark TV special can tell you that it's not worth leaving something you love for the money.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:43 AM on June 13, 2009 [5 favorites]
I'm another one who has been on both sides of your choices. I spent 6 years at a big corporation, barely coping with their crazy rules, huge workloads, backstabbing bosses, etc. I put up with it for so long because it paid well and had pretty good benefits. Then I got laid off, which was a total blessing in disguise. A year later, I started a job with a small but vibrant and successful company. The pay was less when I first started, but being freed from all the stress has allowed me to flourish in ways I never could have at the big place. Therefore, my salary has since increased and surpassed what it was in the previous job, because as Aristotle said, "Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work."
For yourself, your sanity, and your happiness, choose to do what you love and what you are comfortable doing.
posted by shimmerstory at 1:44 PM on June 13, 2009
For yourself, your sanity, and your happiness, choose to do what you love and what you are comfortable doing.
posted by shimmerstory at 1:44 PM on June 13, 2009
Obviously you want to stay, so stay.
I personally would go for the extra $10K, but that's because I'm practical, not a sell-out. (Side note: I was big on making your passion your job when I was in college.) Also, workplaces change. Is your boss going to be there indefinitely? Because sometimes bosses leave and get replaced by nightmares, colleagues leave, and your perfect work situation can change dramatically for the worse.)
posted by anniecat at 1:46 PM on June 13, 2009
I personally would go for the extra $10K, but that's because I'm practical, not a sell-out. (Side note: I was big on making your passion your job when I was in college.) Also, workplaces change. Is your boss going to be there indefinitely? Because sometimes bosses leave and get replaced by nightmares, colleagues leave, and your perfect work situation can change dramatically for the worse.)
posted by anniecat at 1:46 PM on June 13, 2009
Unless you're going to get laid off from your current job, don't jump.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:59 PM on June 13, 2009
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:59 PM on June 13, 2009
If you can survive and be happy without the extra $10k, and this job isn't a dead end, you should definitely keep it.
posted by glider at 4:39 PM on June 13, 2009
posted by glider at 4:39 PM on June 13, 2009
Best answer: Amongst my friends, I don't see a huge difference in how people feel about their life because of how much they earn. I do see a big difference in how people feel about their life in relation to how much they like or dislike their jobs.
Listen to yourself and your feelings. These other people, like your parents, don't have to get out of bed and go to this job every day.
One of my friends was convinced by her father to take a full time job, compared to taking a lesser paid part time job (that she could still get by on). She thought she would enjoy the part time option more, but felt that other people would see it as silly to walk away from the full time offer. She left the full time job after a few months and took up the other option, but only after also buying a car that she wouldn't have needed to get if she'd taken the other job. She also spent more money to try and 'buy' a bit more happiness, and therefore didn't manage to save the money that was the reason for taking the higher paid position.
Don't get me wrong, it isn't easy to shut out other people's opinions and there is nothing wrong with listening to their point of view.
I suspect 10k is probably not even 10k extra in your pocket (unless you've already done the tax calcs etc). Work out what the difference would really be. Work out what the extra costs that job might entail (eg commuting costs). As someone else above pointed out though, it is relevant as to how much you actually earn now as to whether it will make a big difference in your life.
posted by AnnaRat at 5:00 PM on June 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
Listen to yourself and your feelings. These other people, like your parents, don't have to get out of bed and go to this job every day.
One of my friends was convinced by her father to take a full time job, compared to taking a lesser paid part time job (that she could still get by on). She thought she would enjoy the part time option more, but felt that other people would see it as silly to walk away from the full time offer. She left the full time job after a few months and took up the other option, but only after also buying a car that she wouldn't have needed to get if she'd taken the other job. She also spent more money to try and 'buy' a bit more happiness, and therefore didn't manage to save the money that was the reason for taking the higher paid position.
Don't get me wrong, it isn't easy to shut out other people's opinions and there is nothing wrong with listening to their point of view.
I suspect 10k is probably not even 10k extra in your pocket (unless you've already done the tax calcs etc). Work out what the difference would really be. Work out what the extra costs that job might entail (eg commuting costs). As someone else above pointed out though, it is relevant as to how much you actually earn now as to whether it will make a big difference in your life.
posted by AnnaRat at 5:00 PM on June 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
I agree with AnnaRat; you end up spending more just to distract yourself from the misery of a high-paying job that you don't love. Savings get drained that way; maybe it's a clever way to stimulate the economy; I don't know.
I was offered two jobs before: one where I would've ended up being paid more for being an office drone or the cubicle-strapped equivalent of being a sweatshop worker, the other one, which I ended up taking, was for something which was *just* a bit more something I'd enjoy I thought, but significantly lower pay. I took the latter job but I'm enjoying it. I don't spend because work keeps me pretty satisfied. And apparently I'm doing well enough to get a raise six weeks into my job. So I think loving your job is justification enough.
posted by drea at 10:17 PM on June 13, 2009
I was offered two jobs before: one where I would've ended up being paid more for being an office drone or the cubicle-strapped equivalent of being a sweatshop worker, the other one, which I ended up taking, was for something which was *just* a bit more something I'd enjoy I thought, but significantly lower pay. I took the latter job but I'm enjoying it. I don't spend because work keeps me pretty satisfied. And apparently I'm doing well enough to get a raise six weeks into my job. So I think loving your job is justification enough.
posted by drea at 10:17 PM on June 13, 2009
As a life long govt employee, I'm surprised that there's only been one mention of two of the greatest benefits of being a govt worker. One is the protection of civil service and two is the incredible retirement benefits. Now, I have no idea if the govt job you're considering offers these two things, but if they do, you really should consider changing jobs. Multiple members of my family have been laid off recently and I can only imagine the stress that that causes. I won't be laid off, period. I can't even be fired absent good cause (as in I set a baby on fire on my boss's desk). Now, having said that, I love my job and did it for 30% less than what I'm getting paid now when I first started.
Small warning though, if you've never worked in govt before, you might have a hard time adjusting. It is extraordinarily inefficient, full of red tape and bureacracy and ppl who are lazier than you can possibly imagine. That said, those are the tradeoffs you make for job security, better retirement and a ton more vacation than in the private sector.
I know I'm kinda all over the place, but lifetime job security is worth way more than 10k per yr. And, how do you really know that you won't like this new job? Tough choice, good luck.
posted by calgirl13 at 7:57 PM on June 14, 2009
Small warning though, if you've never worked in govt before, you might have a hard time adjusting. It is extraordinarily inefficient, full of red tape and bureacracy and ppl who are lazier than you can possibly imagine. That said, those are the tradeoffs you make for job security, better retirement and a ton more vacation than in the private sector.
I know I'm kinda all over the place, but lifetime job security is worth way more than 10k per yr. And, how do you really know that you won't like this new job? Tough choice, good luck.
posted by calgirl13 at 7:57 PM on June 14, 2009
My parents are both civil servants, and were delighted when I got a unionized public sector job straight out of school. I took the job because I loved it, and I stayed for quite a while. But honestly, the public sector isn't really a good fit for young people. From a compensation perspective, it offers incredible job security, predictable and slow-growing salaries, great healthcare and other benefits, and the willingness to accommodate disabilities and constraints of various kinds. All of which makes it best suited for people who have a high _need_ for security -- not for people who can afford some risk.
Also, bear in mind that when you're young, the union is actually not your friend, because in a unionized environment, seniority=protection.
posted by Susan PG at 12:03 AM on June 15, 2009
Also, bear in mind that when you're young, the union is actually not your friend, because in a unionized environment, seniority=protection.
posted by Susan PG at 12:03 AM on June 15, 2009
I think your choice is lies in your perspective on what work, job, career means to you:
(Type I) Is your career the means to personal fulfillment?
or,
(Type II) Does your salary enable you to pursue personal fulfillment?
If you're of the mind that work is a means to fulfillment then ...
1) Does this new option represent a broader collection of opportunities for personal advancement?
2) Are there things you will be able to experience / do in the new job that you cannot do now? Certain, very helpful, negotiation and motivation skills are best to pick up in very messy, large, multi-party organizations ... like the government.
If your salary provides means to pursue personal fulfillment; in addition to the differential in job flexibility and the value of the extra cash
1) How fast will your salary grow when comparing the two options? And (as susan pg mentioned) how risky, in terms of job loss, are the options when compared to each other.
Is it ...
- big base, fast growth
- small base, fast growth
- big base, slow growth
- small base, slow growth
posted by cheez-it at 9:31 AM on June 23, 2009
(Type I) Is your career the means to personal fulfillment?
or,
(Type II) Does your salary enable you to pursue personal fulfillment?
If you're of the mind that work is a means to fulfillment then ...
1) Does this new option represent a broader collection of opportunities for personal advancement?
2) Are there things you will be able to experience / do in the new job that you cannot do now? Certain, very helpful, negotiation and motivation skills are best to pick up in very messy, large, multi-party organizations ... like the government.
If your salary provides means to pursue personal fulfillment; in addition to the differential in job flexibility and the value of the extra cash
1) How fast will your salary grow when comparing the two options? And (as susan pg mentioned) how risky, in terms of job loss, are the options when compared to each other.
Is it ...
- big base, fast growth
- small base, fast growth
- big base, slow growth
- small base, slow growth
posted by cheez-it at 9:31 AM on June 23, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by The otter lady at 8:57 AM on June 13, 2009 [3 favorites]