Comments on: I want to see more bad people

Question: I want to see more bad people

reenum — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:48:37 -0800

Please suggest movies, TV shows and books that feature unrepentant, amoral characters

I was a big fan of Seinfeld when it was on, and now love It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia and Eastbound & Down.

The common thread running through these shows is a character or group of characters who are often selfish at best, amoral at worst and unrepentant about it. Also, the characters don't seem to have an epiphany that makes them "good", like the case with many movies and books. For example, I loved the movie Roger Dodger until the ending.

I want more of this. I'd love suggestions on TV shows (except Weeds), movies, and nonfiction books or biographies. I've read about such characters in fiction, so don't need recs on those sorts of books.

Thanks!

By: Jaltcoh

Jaltcoh — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:55:25 -0800

movies:

Happiness

Heathers

A Clockwork Orange

Crumb

Rope

By: smorange

smorange — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:55:51 -0800

No Country For Old Men is probably the best movie I've seen that depicts pure evil.

By: EndsOfInvention

EndsOfInvention — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:57:46 -0800

The entire Blackadder series is about an amoral cad trying to cheat and swindle himself into power and money (and usually failing in a humerous manner, although never learning his lesson). First season isn't as good as the rest.
For an amusing anti-epiphany, see the one-off Blackadder's Christmas Carol, which is like the normal one but in reverse.

By: pardonyou?

pardonyou? — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 06:59:31 -0800

American Psycho

By: jadepearl

jadepearl — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:02:18 -0800

House of Cards for TV. A good political show.

By: bondcliff

bondcliff — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:02:49 -0800

Almost the entire family in Arrested Development fits this description.

By: k1ng

k1ng — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:04:42 -0800

It sounds like you'll really like Curb Your Enthusiasm (tv show).

By: If only I had a penguin...

If only I had a penguin... — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:05:49 -0800

House

By: The corpse in the library

The corpse in the library — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:06:07 -0800

Patricia Highsmith's Mr. Ripley books.

By: gladly

gladly — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:07:15 -0800

Neil LaBute has a few movies like this in his repetoire, where even if characters experience an epiphany about their behavior, they aren't changing. In the Company of Men, Your Friends and Neighbors, and The Shape of Things. Ignore his films that are based on other material, like Wicker Man or Possession.

By: The corpse in the library

The corpse in the library — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:07:20 -0800

Whoops, missed the "nonfiction" bit. Well, change my suggestion to the movie, instead.

By: inigo2

inigo2 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:09:55 -0800

I was coming here to mention In the Company of Men, but gladly beat me to it. Great movie, and it really fits what you're looking for.

By: adamrice

adamrice — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:11:07 -0800

If you can find it anywhere, the TV show Profit (which didn't last long). I'll second Clockwork Orange and anything by Neil LaBute.

By: peanut_mcgillicuty

peanut_mcgillicuty — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:14:21 -0800

Original Sin. Maybe Breaking Bad. Maybe also Pushing Daisies, though the PieMaker isn't exactly unrepentant, just tortured.

By: Joe Beese

Joe Beese — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:27:23 -0800

Bad Lieutenant

By: DevilsAdvocate

DevilsAdvocate — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:29:39 -0800

Not sure if you mean to include people who are not merely selfish but outright criminal, but if you are, I recommend Wiseguy, by Nicholas Pileggi, which was made into the movie Goodfellas.

By: itsjustanalias

itsjustanalias — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:31:25 -0800

Avon in Blakes Seven was a particular favourite of mine.

By: rossination

rossination — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:31:48 -0800

If you're willing to take a look at opera, go watch Mozart's Don Giovanni. It features a cast of unlikeable characters.

By: Happy Dave

Happy Dave — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:32:00 -0800

Bit of a reach, but we watched Blood Diamond last night, and the main character played by DiCaprio in that is an absolute scumbag, badly damaged by war and what he's seen and done, totally out for himself until it becomes completely clear to him that he's about to die, when he does the decent thing.

I was expecting a crash-bang action thriller with a Han Solo-esque rogue in DiCaprio's role, but it was surprisingly nuanced. Good film, check it out.

By: arniec

arniec — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:32:13 -0800

Silence of the Lambs comes to mind... the other Hannibal Lector films and books would fit in as well but none are as good.

Pitch Black has the character Riddick who is no angel.

Point Break (it's about cops trying to catch amoral characters)

By: RavinDave

RavinDave — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:34:20 -0800

I always loved Danny DeVito's character on "Taxi" (Louis DePalma), but I never really understood how he could resonate with so many people when he was such a slimy, reprehensible, and unrepentant bastard. Then someone pointed out that he really wasn't all that different than Shakespeare's beloved Falstaff.

By: inigo2

inigo2 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:34:32 -0800

If you can find it anywhere, the TV show Profit (which didn't last long).

Good call. Just started watching this one, and it fits.

By: tryniti

tryniti — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:36:45 -0800

Anything by Brett Easton Ellis and Chuck Palahniuk. "Choke" is a great example, although I haven't seen the movie yet.

By: Sailormom

Sailormom — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:37:37 -0800

The Last Seduction is a pretty good movie.

By: emilyd22222

emilyd22222 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:37:58 -0800

Dexter would probably fit.

By: TWinbrook8

TWinbrook8 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:38:40 -0800

The Bad Seed (1956). "An ideal housewife begins to suspect her loving adolescent daughter may be a heartless killer."

By: utsutsu

utsutsu — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:38:47 -0800

definitely Breaking Bad.

They really play with the line at which the characters go from having good intentions but doing bad things... to just outright being bad, bad people.

By: HuronBob

HuronBob — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:41:19 -0800

"W"

By: HuronBob

HuronBob — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:45:38 -0800

"The Quick and the Dead" - Gene Hackman is evil at it's best in this.

By: Scattercat

Scattercat — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:47:23 -0800

Pretty much any Tarantino flick...

As for stuff I actually like, well, I can second House of Cards, which was a fabulous Richard III-style "vengeance of the scorned" setup. (Heck, Richard III almost fits your request. I liked the Ian McKellan version.)

There are several heist-movies that probably apply. The "Ocean's [number]" series, Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels, The Italian Job, etc.

What about Lord of War? The protagonist sort of has an "epiphany," I guess, but he doesn't repent or stop doing what he does.

By: bonobothegreat

bonobothegreat — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:47:33 -0800

Basil in Fawlty Towers.

By: Grither

Grither — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:50:55 -0800

How I Met Your Mother has the best character ever in Patrick Harris' Barney. An un-repentant womanizer. The show is hilarious. Though lately they have this whole "barney falling in love with another main character" thing, which is kinda lame. So watch the first season instead.

By: 8dot3

8dot3 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:50:56 -0800

Shallow Grave.

Along similar lines as The Bad Seed, I recommend Alice Sweet Alice.

By: frogpondian

frogpondian — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:54:51 -0800

The Sopranos should fit the bill, as should the excellent Breaking Bad.

This AV Club post has a few more suggestions about TV shows featuring morally questionable antiheros.

By: hciadt

hciadt — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:54:51 -0800

Dog Day Afternoon.

The film could have taken any number of routes to show that Sonny was an 'amoral character' who needed to be stopped. Likewise, they could have easily shown that the cops are bastards. Instead, they stepped away from all that and allowed the viewer to form their own conclusion.

Dog Day Afternoon.

By: phoenixy

phoenixy — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:07:04 -0800

Thirding Profit. Also some of the characters in Deadwood are like this.

By: arniec

arniec — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:09:55 -0800

You know...in thinking about this I've thought of a bunch more, but the thing is with these amoral characters often you find them in crime films or horror films, and often as the villain if you want unrepentant characters. That said, any film ABOUT villains can make them the protagonist.

So I've come up with these:

Bonfire of the Vanities

Wall Street

It's been a while but I think the Interview with a Vampire, and more to the point, the Vampire Lestat also fit. The Lestat character being the one to focus on for this purpose.

If you haven't seen The Dark Knight, I think that Joker would be right up your alley.

Scarface

Very Bad Things

A Fish Called Wanda

The War of the Roses

Envy

The Grifters

A Simple Plan

Training Day

Alpha Dog (based on true events)

Bad Santa (mostly...I can't really say if the end will disappoint)

Reanimator, Bride of Reanimator, Beyond Reanimator

Wag the Dog

The Cable Guy (though this may be more insanity than amorality..sometimes it';s a fine line)

Quentin Tarantino lived in moral ambiguity for a while:

True Romance

Natural Born Killers

Reservoir Dogs

Pulp Fiction

Similarly:

The Usual Suspects

Get Shorty

TV Shows:

Damages (though I have to admit I stopped watching midway through the first season)

Ohh, Nip/Tuck has a great amoral character in it...and it's fun and salacious

Sopranos as mentioned above.

By: griseus

griseus — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:10:52 -0800

Another, often overlooked "Ripley" movie: Ripley's Game, with John Malkovic as Ripley. Excellent.

By: elder18

elder18 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:18:40 -0800

Deadwood, the HBO television series available on DVD, is full of people like these. Especially the Cy Tolliver and, in the third season, the George Hearst characters.

By: applemeat

applemeat — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:19:45 -0800

Absolutely Fabulous (BBC sitcom)

By: dobbs

dobbs — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:23:20 -0800

Five Easy Pieces
Deadwood (tv) has many such characters with George Hearst being the prime example
Carnal Knowledge
Your Friends and Neighbors
Sexy Beast
Point Blank
Funny Games
Benny's Video
Mean Streets
Miller's Crossing
Unforgiven
Chinatown
Laws of Gravity
Marathon Man
Prime Cut
Spoorloos
Peeping Tom
The Third Man
Coup de Torchon (could be wrong; haven't seen it in 25 years)
Naked

On preview, maybe I misunderstand the question because I don't understand how Dog Day Afternoon fits the criteria. To me, it's the polar opposite of what you're asking for.

By: originalname37

originalname37 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:24:01 -0800

I typically don't like "seconding" in this type of request. However, if you haven't seen A Clockwork Orange (and can handle moderate (but not especially graphic) violence including a couple of rapes), it may be the best distillation of amorality ever put to film.

You will probably also like Mad Men.

By: kittyprecious

kittyprecious — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:27:37 -0800

The Opposite of Sex is criminally underappreciated and begins with Christina Ricci's character narration (truthfully) saying: "I don't have a heart of gold and I don't grow one later."

By: the biscuit man

the biscuit man — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:28:14 -0800

A few of these were mentioned before, but here's a list. Trailer Park Boys is a definite must.

Arrested Development
Black Books
Breaking Bad
Curb Your Enthusiasm
Dexter
Father Ted
Get A Life
Metalocalypse
Moral Orel
The League Of Gentlemen
Trailer Park Boys
Venture Bros.
Wonder Showzen

By: hermitosis

hermitosis — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:29:56 -0800

Dangerous Liaisons, which is the story that Cruel Intentions was modeled after.

By: originalname37

originalname37 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:32:21 -0800

Slightly (but not entirely) off topic, dobbs, you recommended "The Laws of Gravity". Do you know where one can find this fantastic film (besides late night cable circa 1995)? Thanks.

By: i_cola

i_cola — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:39:27 -0800

Shameless (UK, Channel 4)
The name sums it up and it's hilarious. The lead character, Frank Gallagher, is exactly what you want although the cultural leap from the US to underclass Mancunian council estate might be a bit much.

By: yawper

yawper — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:39:39 -0800

No one's mentioned There Will Be Blood?

Also, I can't remember the ending of Election, but Reese Witherspoon's character was pretty amoral in that.

By: marsha56

marsha56 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:40:32 -0800

I'm not a Nicole Kidman fan, but I loved her in To Die For.

By: opsin

opsin — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:50:30 -0800

In some respects Bottle Rocket features a meeting of a character who is becoming repentant, with his childhood friend who lacks any self-awareness and is intent on continuing, and dragging his friend into his destructive lifestyle.

I'd definitely second There Will be Blood, which I see as an exploration of unrepentant evil in the form of capitalism and the American Dream.

Insomnia (the original) perhaps? An unrepentantly corrupt cop story, as he falls apart.

And absolutely seconding Breaking Bad, which apart from that features a more than deservedly emmy winning performance from Cranston. Some ridiculously top notch acting!

If you're after something a little heavier perhaps, Once Were Warriors is a stunning portrayal of the kind of broken homes that sit in the Maori communities of New Zealand, led by a truly unrepetentant character.

Oh, which also reminds me of Chopper, the story of Chopper Read, one of Australia's most renowned violent convicts. A truly fucked up, but absolutely hypnotic movie. Directed by the guy who went on to do Assassination of Jesse James, which is also well worth watching and full of moral ambiguity.

I could no doubt find more, but for now I need to go away and stop saying unrepentant before it loses all meaning.

By: marsha56

marsha56 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:06:52 -0800

Oh, and this post yesterday reminded me of Badlands with Sissy Spacek and Martin Sheen, loosely based on these two.

Another great Terence Malick film with unrepentant main characters, Days of Heaven.

By: grrarrgh00

grrarrgh00 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:08:29 -0800

Several characters on The Wire might count; if I had to choose one, it would be Marlo Stansfield. Or possibly Jimmy McNulty.

By: BigLankyBastard

BigLankyBastard — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:16:43 -0800

I can't believe we have this many suggestions and no one has mentioned The Shield.

By: carbide

carbide — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:28:30 -0800

Oh, slightly mortified to be first with it, but: Gossip Girl. Everyone sells someone out at least briefly, and Chuck Bass is probably the most amoral on the surface, but it's a bit more complicated than that. Also, quite fun to get nerdy about because it's so frothy.

Ditto The Wire for all shades of the spectrum. Marlo makes me shudder just thinking about him, especially on the rosemantic front.

By: dzot

dzot — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:46:28 -0800

House +1
Larry Sanders

By: orme

orme — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:57:59 -0800

Man Bites Dog

I Stand Alone

By: Dolley

Dolley — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:13:03 -0800

Absolutely, Nicole Kidman's character in "To Die For"

By: cali59

cali59 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:40:50 -0800

2nding The Shield

Also Action (you should still be able to find it on Netflix instant)

By: JaredSeth

JaredSeth — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:43:06 -0800

Gary Oldman in The Professional

Gary Oldman in The Fifth Element

Gary Oldman in Dracula

Hell, most things with Gary Oldman

By: candyhammer

candyhammer — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:01:32 -0800

nth No Country For Old Men, though I'd call it a deptiction of a sociopath, not of evil.

By: 543DoublePlay

543DoublePlay — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:02:26 -0800

Connor and Murphy in The Boondock Saints. They start by killing members of the Russian Mafia and then decide to rid Boston of anyone that they consider to be "evil".

Great movie with Willem Dafoe playing the creepiest FBI agent in the history of the cinema (since Hoove anyway).

By: bartonlong

bartonlong — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:17:47 -0800

The Flashman Books by George McDonald Fraser are excellent for this type of Character. The bonus part is how flashman is percieved by those around him.

By: cali59

cali59 — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:22:23 -0800

Seeing someone mention Nicole Kidman made me think of Malice

By: Brody's chum

Brody's chum — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:00:21 -0800

For a canine take on this theme, there's always Baxter.

By: mediareport

mediareport — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:46:06 -0800

Mike Leigh's Naked is mentioned above, but deserves a strong second. The main character is about as shockingly unsympathetic, fascinatingly intelligent, witty and darkly humorous as a main character can be. David Thewlis plays him beautifully, and Leigh works the angles his character provides in a sharp, provocative and satisfying way.

By: ohyouknow

ohyouknow — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:51:59 -0800

Nthing House. I recently discovered it and have lost a few weekends catching up with my good friend TiVo. Brilliant acting, gripping plot lines, and thoroughly three dimensional & smart characters.

But it's the mad (and oftentimes rude) genius of House that makes the show.

By: phredgreen

phredgreen — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:48:24 -0800

I'm greatly surprised that nobody has mentioned Bender from Futurama yet.

Quite possibly the definition of an unrepentant bastard.

By: kathrineg

kathrineg — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 07:52:27 -0800

Gone With the Wind.

Classic.

By: dearest

dearest — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:24:05 -0800

Came here to say Curb your Enthusiasm, The Wire, Gossip Girl (Really! Not only Chuck Bass but Blair Waldorf, and Georgina Sparks OMG!) and really in that vein-- The Hills! It's sad and evil and empty...

By: jmevius

jmevius — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 07:58:08 -0800

I'll add my support for:

- Curb Your Enthusiasm
- Breaking Bad
- Dexter
- Arrested Development

By: cps

cps — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:38:20 -0800

Dig on Peep Show, a british TV series. Characters' self-centeredness comes through in their voice-overed internal dialogue (e.g., "sure I will"). The whole thing's pretty sick and funny. Not stuff you could show on US TV what with the sex and drugs.