Smart, thoughtful TV shows

June 10, 2009 3:08 AM

Northern Exposure and Star Trek DS9 fan, any good, smart, thoughtful TV shows out there?

I need some more TV shows to watch--I like watching good TV shows because there's a lot of time for good plot and character development, but I hardly ever just watch TV and have never watched shows as they occur (apart from The Tudors, which isn't one of my favorite shows, but one that I would watch as it ran).

I love Northern Exposure and have seen all of it--I like the quirky characters, the comedy, the good questions that are posed, good literary references, Chris reading from Walt Whitman or Tolstoy, and quite a lot of thoughtful things said. It was also very smart comedy ("We have to go to Dostovesky's house--otherwise we'd be idiots!").

As evidenced by my handle, I also really enjoyed DS9. I've seen almost all of TNG, which was good--but I found the show to be a little more straitlaced wheras DS9 was more about people staying and being forced to deal with problems that arise. I also thought that the sci-fi setting offered a good way to think about problems we see in today's world. How do an occupied people move on? What if you have to rob Peter to pay Paul, or choose the lesser of two evils? Voyager and Enterprise failed to grab my attention.

Any other suggestions? I tried an episode of True Blood (on iTunes), as I do like vampires and fantasy and related to the southern setting, but it didn't grab me at all. I've also seen a couple of Battlestar Gallatica shows, but the show is a little too tense for me.

posted by Dukat to media & arts (32 comments total)

The Firefly series. It's Sci Fi with a Western twist. Creator Joss Whedon knows how to create memorable characters with the right mix of humor, action, and drama. And a little philosophy too.
posted by thisperon at 3:17 AM on June 10 [4 favorites]

Definitely Firefly and then the Serenity movie that wraps it up. Perhaps you'd also be interested in Babylon 5, it reminds me of DS9 but B5 goes quite a few steps past it and really makes you think about various things. I enjoyed its portrayal of humans in space more than the do-goody nature of Star Trek's. If you do give it a chance, try to get to Season 2 as they change the cast a bit and I think it gets better from that point on.
posted by Meagan at 3:22 AM on June 10

Anything by Brian Fuller (Dead Like Me, Wonderfalls, Pushing Daisies). Quirks and clever writing galore. On a much darker side, 'Dexter' (Showtime) is also quite well written with significant character development, and I'll so far as to suggest that the show is really the only reason to own a television right now.
posted by elendil71 at 3:48 AM on June 10 [3 favorites]

Six Feet Under is superb. Thought-provoking, irreverent and compelling TV beautifully acted and filmed.

Watch it from the beginning of the first season to the end of the last. You won't be disappointed.
posted by Blackwatch at 3:52 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]

If you like the growth of people, I'd recommend HBO's Deadwood, although it only ran for three seasons, and was cut short, it has characters that you do fall in love with. It is also pretty filthy, what with all the cursing and tits and murder.

Some of the best TV I've seen.
posted by QueerAngel28 at 4:15 AM on June 10

Life - I unfortunately discovered it right around the time it was canceled, but the two seasons that were produced seem right up your alley. It was a surprisingly deeper show than the ads touted.

Doc Martin - This is Northern Exposure's British cousin. A doctor who's a bit more House than Joel moves to a remote fishing village in Cornwall to serve as their GP. We've been able to stream the first season off of Netflix and eagerly await the second and third seasons' arrival on this side of the Atlantic.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:11 AM on June 10

Hey, you named two of my all-time favorite TV series. I'm actually a fan of all Trek, but DS9 is far and away my favorite.

For matching the quirkiness of Northern Exposure I'd recommend Pushing Daisies without question. It's one of the best shows that's been on TV in the past ten years or so. Cancelled far too earlier, but the upcoming season 2 DVD release is supposed to have three previously unaired episodes which will, hopefully, bring it to some kind of conclusion.

If you liked DS9, I'd recommend Babylon 5 as well. Like DS9 it's science fiction set primarily on a space station (so you can't just solve the problem of the week then fly off to somewhere else and ignore the consequences of your "solution") Long-term story arcs (in fact the creator, J. Michael Straczynski, plotted out the broad arc of the entire five-year series from the beginning), great character development over the course of the series. It takes some time to find its footing--season 1 can be hit-or-miss (but the same is true of DS9, after all), and the fifth season flounders a bit because when they were filming season 4 it wasn't clear if it would get a fifth season, so a lot of what was originally supposed to be the season 5 plot got compressed into season 4. (This is not to say don't watch seasons 1 or 5, just to forewarn you). But seasons 2-4, plus the series finale, are among the best TV I've ever seen. In a way it's unfortunate that DS9 and Babylon 5 were airing around the same time, as that led to a lot of fans of one putting down the other, saying one was a rip-off of the other, etc. They're both great shows.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 5:40 AM on June 10

X-FILES! X-FILES X-FILES X-FILES X-FILES X-FILES.
posted by low_horrible_immoral at 5:41 AM on June 10

1) From reading about Northern Exposure (I haven't seen it) you might like Twin Peaks. It has humour, good characters, mystery and a soap style element. You might not like the second series unless you enjoy Lynch's other work. Also don't watch the movie before you see the series.

2) A more obscure suggestion but if you enjoy sci-fi take a look at Blake's 7 . The main downside is tolerating the cheap 70s production.

3) I think I'm morally obliged (for good reasons) to recommend The Wire in response to any question asking about intelligent TV.
posted by Erberus at 5:44 AM on June 10

I would amend low_horrible_immoral's endorsement to say that only first few seasons of X-FILES would suffice. During the last couple seasons it became pretty apparent that Chris Carter was running low on ideas.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:03 AM on June 10

Erberus beat me to both of my suggestions and to my caveats, too. Seconding Blake's 7, which is the platform that DS9 (and Serenity and Battlestar Galactica and, really, every less-than-utopia sci-fi TV series of the past 15 years) has incorporated into its DNA.

Also, Stringer Bell from the Wire and Dukat remind me of each other, in terms of complexity and eventual audience empathy. Stringer has, however, somewhat less int he way of pah' wraiths.
posted by joyceanmachine at 6:34 AM on June 10

I got completely hooked on The Sopranos, and then Six Feet Under, then Deadwood - I would recommend any of these. Now my obsession is Breaking Bad, which like all of the above is way better than it might sound. Though it pushes credibility at times it is completely engrossing, exciting and very well performed. With only 6 or so episodes left before the end of the second season (and so far there is no third) I'm also looking for something to take its place, so this thread will be useful for me too - thanks.
posted by Flashman at 6:36 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]

Deadwood
Sopranos
The Wire
Mad Men
Breaking Bad

Those are my top five.

Dexter is also very good (but can be gorey).

For a Northern Exposure type of vibe, I suggest the somewhat obscure Wonderfalls.

X-files is only good if you can pick and choose episodes. Specifically anything written by Darin Morgan will be amazing.
posted by dzot at 6:44 AM on June 10

Deadwood is my best recommendation, especially since you seem to like the strong characters and cozy setting of Northern Exposure. I've never cared as much about some dirty worthless bastards as I did during Deadwood.


You say:
I've also seen a couple of Battlestar Gallatica shows, but the show is a little too tense for me.

You. Must. Watch. Battlestar. From. The. Beginning.
posted by General Tonic at 6:46 AM on June 10

If you like DS9 then try Babylon 5. It's 5 seasons long and it has a great deal of character development, in addition to a great story arc that lasts through the whole series. The first season is difficult because they're setting everything up for the next 4 seasons, but it's worth the effort.

Also, nthing Firefly.

I loved The Wire and Deadwood and try to recommend them to everyone, but I don't know if they're exactly what you're looking for. Both are quite a bit more tense than Battlestar Galactica. Babylon 5 and Firefly are going to be better fits for you.
posted by Quizicalcoatl at 6:49 AM on June 10

Haha, your viewing habits sound similar to ours - we just switched our Netflix queue from all of Northern Exposure to all of DS9. I'm personally a huge Trekkie so it's hard for me to get where you're coming from with the other Star Trek series, but whatever.

I heartily second elendil71's recommendation of "anything by Brian Fuller". Dead Like Me and Pushing Daisies are two quick-witted, quirky shows from what I've seen of them.

Firefly is great; it has some of the moral quandaries you describe liking in DS9, fantastic characters/character development, but the show only lasted like 15 episodes. The movie that it spawned, Serenity, is about a million times crappier than the show (in my opinion).

You may or may not like the X-Files. The show definitely has humor (Chris Carter throws in about an episode a season that's entirely in-jokes for fans of the series), quirky characters, and interesting plotlines. But if you think BSG is too tense for you, it may be as well. However, if you do end up getting into the X-Files, you might also check out Millenium, another Chris Carter show. The first couple seasons are great (in a sort of terrible way) and then it suddenly ends.

I can't really think of any other shows right now, but good luck finding more! I'll be watching this thread, too.
posted by malthas at 6:51 AM on June 10

Christopher Eccleston as Doctor Who might drive your starship. And if you can stomach the odd fusion of wacky professor and concerned social worker, David Tennant's Doctor Who ain’t bad either. But yeah, another vote for Firefly. Although its portrayal of 'schizophrenia' is predictably patronising.
posted by hciadt at 7:06 AM on June 10

Unfortunately it's not on DVD yet, but "Ed" would fit the bill. It's been "coming to DVD soon" for a couple of years, so hopefully it'll be released soon.
posted by backwards guitar at 7:20 AM on June 10

I was dubious about it for years, but I caved and then quite enjoyed "Gilmore Girls" as intelligent TV. The first few seasons especially.
posted by carmen at 7:20 AM on June 10

I second 'Gilmore Girls', and just as another option check out 'Veronica Mars'. It was totally marketed wrong (if at all) by the CW and only lasted 3 seasons, but there's some great character development, nice long intricate story arcs, and enough twists, turns and oddballs to make it really engaging, provided you get to start at the beginning and watch it in order.

'Arrested Development' is well written, well cast, and wacky, and totally should still be going. I think you'd get a kick out of it.
posted by pupdog at 7:54 AM on June 10

From what you wrote, LOST comes to mind as the ideal show for you:

"I like the quirky characters, the comedy, the good questions that are posed, good literary references, Chris reading from Walt Whitman or Tolstoy, and quite a lot of thoughtful things said."

The show is made up of an ensemble cast that each plays an important role in the show. The characters themselves, are literary references of some sort - and the writing draws from a rich history of literature (philosophers, writers, biblical allegories, classics) that you can choose to indulge in on your own or not.

DS9 was more about people staying and being forced to deal with problems that arise.

As you know by now, it's basically about a group of people who are "stranded". The nature by which they have become abandoned changes over the seasons, but they have to not only survive, but make sense of their predicament. The characters are helped by the fact that we see glimpses of their past in order to understand their present.

How do an occupied people move on? What if you have to rob Peter to pay Paul, or choose the lesser of two evils?

The drama from LOST stems from them trying to understand dualities: right from wrong, good vs. evil, light and dark. There is not clear cut answer (as of yet), as it's the exploration of the dualities that's interesting to me.

Anyways, LOST has wrapped up it's 5th season. The sixth and final season is coming up, so it's nice to know that the show will end the way the makers intended, as opposed to being canceled or short-changed. Seasons 1-4 or available on DVD. Season 5 will probably be available on DVD late fall, then the final season will start I think in February. Of course all seasons are available online.

I am also a big from of the reimagined BSG, which I think is much tenser than LOST, and a Trekie of the TNG and DS9 variety. I'm also in season 2 of the Wire, and love the writing. Good luck, getting there is half the fun.
posted by spoons at 9:08 AM on June 10

I seem to like the same shows you do. Many of my favorites (Six Feet Under, LOST, Madmen) have been named already, but if you've never seen it, I'd like to suggest Alien Nation. I know, aliens with spots on their heads. But it's surprisingly character driven, well-written, and intelligent sci-fi. For a cop show.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:55 AM on June 10

You could try Dollhouse. I think it's much better than any of Joss Whedon's other TV creations, which I never really got into. It doesn't really have too many overt literary references, but I think it does go into a bit of the unsettling philosophical side of Sci-Fi (al la Philip K Dick) along with having great characters.
posted by demiurge at 10:02 AM on June 10

Firefly is great; it has some of the moral quandaries you describe liking in DS9, fantastic characters/character development, but the show only lasted like 15 episodes. The movie that it spawned, Serenity, is about a million times crappier than the show (in my opinion).

While this is true, that still puts it at about a million times better than most of what Hollywood and the tv studios churn out. ;)
posted by Kellydamnit at 10:46 AM on June 10

Some amazing recommendations here. I'm kinda sad that I've seen (or am currently watching) them all. I would add to this great list: Rome. Same great gore, T&A, thoughtful character development, historical characters with English accents...
posted by bluejayway at 10:48 AM on June 10

Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which was pretty great except for the last season. Seconding or thirding MadMen and Gilmore Girls.
posted by OolooKitty at 11:09 AM on June 10

The Venture Brothers - underneath the deep-geek references and edgy comedy is a consistent story arc with consequences further along in the series, and lots of character development in very surprising places. What you assume to be a stock character or a throwaway role will have some serious screen time and plot devoted to him or her. Some of the smartest television out there.
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:13 PM on June 10

Rome was great. BSG is ... well, I've only been watching it on DVD, and am going through withdrawal waiting for the second half of the final season to come out. Yes, it's tense; but it's also well written, well acted, and deserves to be seen from the beginning.

I enjoyed the first season of Dollhouse very much. It was more hit-and-miss than Firefly, but the moral and dramatic questions raised deserve at least one more season of exploration, and the characters frequently surprised me.

For something lighter, try out BBC's Primeval (I believe the 3rd season is just wrapping up). In some ways its a not-so-deep sci-fi romp with excellently rendered pre- and post-historic creatures, but it also does some intelligent work with the effects of messing with the past and future and isn't afraid to harm its characters, most of whom are stock, but endearing nonetheless.
posted by lhauser at 2:04 PM on June 10

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. It's been canceled after its second season, apparently because Fox doesn't know a good thing when it finds it, but I thought it was one of the best sci fi shows ever to grace television. A review I saw online expressed it pretty well (from here, but don't read that, it has spoilers aplenty):

"Terminator" isn't about special effects and metal monsters. It's a family drama; a mother and son entrusted with a huge secret and the responsibility to change the future, no matter what the cost. [...] Without clobbering you with messages, Friedman gets you thinking -- about people whose secret struggles you can't know, about living with trauma and moving forward, about the strength and fragility of teenagers, and about the otherwise impossible things parents manage to do to protect their children. [... He] might be the best storyteller on TV right now. He packs episodes with twists you don't see coming but make sense in retrospect. He changes up his style, drops lead characters for entire episodes, uses biblical references left and right and delivers dialogue that's simultaneously believable and eloquent. He lets major characters die. And the show's directors coax subtle, nuanced performances from the actors.
posted by you're a kitty! at 3:04 PM on June 10 [1 favorite]

Farscape. Great character development, similar whimsy to Northern Exposure, and pop-culture/literary references fast and furious. I like it as much as Firefly (which I also nth), only there are some 80 episodes instead of only 15.
posted by jb at 5:59 PM on June 10

Nthing:
Pushing Daisies
Dexter
Firefly
Buffy
Arrested Development

Adding:
Freaks and Geeks (Thoughtful, touching dramedy by Judd Apatow & gang)
Black Books (Wacky, absurdist romps by a nihilistic bookstore owner and his friends)
Spaced (Nerdy, lovable comedy from the Simon Pegg/Nick Frost crew)
Peep Show (Ridiculous POV-shot comedy, kind of a British It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, but with interior monologues)
posted by JauntyFedora at 12:07 PM on June 11

If you'd stoop to what might be called a sit-com, Peep Show is brilliant - outrageous and so funny. I just noticed that it's up on Hulu, but they only have season 1. I've just been rewatching the whole lot (of which there are too few!) and it really doesn't hit its stride until season 2. Look for it on DVD or, uh, bittorrent.
posted by Flashman at 8:39 PM on June 11