Comments on: Compulsory Military Service

Question: Compulsory Military Service

malaprohibita — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 12:00:54 -0800

What countries have compulsory military service?

By: karen

karen — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 12:07:15 -0800

i don't about all the countries, but i can tell you it's compulsory for all men in Turkey and all men and women in Israel. Those are the two I know for sure.

By: majick

majick — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 12:07:32 -0800

Wikipedia seems to have a fairly good list that wasn't terribly hard to find.

By: andrew cooke

andrew cooke — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 12:19:29 -0800

chile does (men only), although it's appears to be avoidable if you're well-off. i guess that's standard. and it's not on the wikipedia list.

By: Bearman

Bearman — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 12:22:06 -0800

Cyprus does as well.

By: stray

stray — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 12:35:36 -0800

Malaysia does as well, I believe, for men.

By: kenko

kenko — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 12:41:38 -0800

Germany does for men, but you can get out of it by doing social work (and probably also if you're rich).

By: widdershins

widdershins — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 12:48:20 -0800

Norway does for men.

By: librarina

librarina — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 13:04:29 -0800

Belgium does for men. You can get out of it by working at a "public health service establishement" or a nursing home.

By: signal

signal — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 13:05:08 -0800

To expand on what andrew c. says, in Chile it's avoidable if you're middle- to upper-class, attending university, or don't really want to do it. The army is an attractive enough option for many poor, rural young men that the army doesn't need to take people who don't want to do it.
I got called up, and got an indefinite posponment because of my very mild escholiosis (sp?), i.e.: bad back, which is so mild I didn't even take the X-rays that prove it.

By: filmgoerjuan

filmgoerjuan — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 13:08:07 -0800

Syria does as well. Although they mostly end up standing around in front of official buildings, smoking and looking very, very bored.

By: andrew cooke

andrew cooke — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 13:11:16 -0800

(and evidence in support of that - i know someone who simply turned up when he got his papers and told the person in charge that he was perfectly fit, but didn't want to do it. they called him out of the line just as everyone was being marched to barracks that evening and let him go...

however i'm always a bit dubious of the "poor people like it" argument. i wonder how many kids from a rural environment grow up never realising that it is effectively optional. but that's just speculation - i don't know anyone like that, that i can recall.)

By: keijo

keijo — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 13:29:31 -0800

Finland does for men. Women can opt in. You can also opt out from military service but it takes 13 months in that case, you can work for the govenment, NGOs, etc. Normal military service is 6 months - 12 months depending on your inclination.

By: orange clock

orange clock — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 13:31:59 -0800

Israel, also the Netherlands.

By: orange clock

orange clock — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 13:33:44 -0800

I may be wrong on the Netherlands. But I know Dutch soldiers are allowed to wear their hair long!

By: onshi

onshi — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 13:39:13 -0800

I have also heard (from a non-Dutch) military source that Dutch soldiers are also unionized, which is mind-blowing on so many levels. I googled it, but couldn't come up with anything in short order.

By: dasibiter

dasibiter — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 13:53:25 -0800

Brazil, even so far as they sent me a nice reminder around my 18th birthday while I was living in Hawaii and had not been present in said country for over 15 years.

Although after a certain number of years pass you are allowed to return the country without question as to why you did not serve.

From their Constitution:
"Article 143 [Military Service]

(0) Military service is compulsory according to the law.
(1) It is incumbent upon the Armed forces, according to the law, to assign an alternative service to those who, in times of peace, after being enlisted, allege reasons of conscience, which shall be understood as reasons based on religious creed and philosophical or political belief for exemption from essentially military activities.
(2) Women and clergymen are exempted from compulsory military service in times of peace but are subject to other duties that may be attributed to them by law."

By: Peter H

Peter H — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 14:04:47 -0800

Currently in America we call it the National Guard.

By: Steve_at_Linnwood

Steve_at_Linnwood — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 14:17:40 -0800

Peter I assume you think you are being cute?

I volunteered for the Army National Guard, it is all voluntary.
(Anyone who joins thinking they might not get called up, is an idiot.)

By: kickingtheground

kickingtheground — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 14:27:17 -0800

I believe Denmark still has conscription - while Belgium and the Netherlands no longer do.

By: swordfishtrombones

swordfishtrombones — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 14:28:49 -0800

There no longer is compulsory military service in Holland: they made that decision a few weeks before I turned 18 (over a decade ago). Lots of problems now finding people.

By: signal

signal — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 15:04:58 -0800

andrew: I'm not saying that all poor people like it, or even most, just that enough do to fill out the ranks. I've personally known some poor kids (and their moms) who feel that the army is a much better opportunity than, for instance, selling candy on buses. Also, for people in out-of.the.way places, it's their only chance to get out of the place they've lived all their lives.

By: malaprohibita

malaprohibita — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 15:18:31 -0800

Wikipedia seems to have a fairly good list that wasn't terribly hard to find.

Ah.... I tried there first (and google), but it looks like I used too narrow a search.

By: andrew cooke

andrew cooke — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 15:44:57 -0800

sure (i wasn't saying you were saying...). i can see the advantages (assuming they don't end up having to fight), and other chileans have pointed them out to me, too. but there's always an implicit bias in an arrangement like this, where "everybody knows" how to avoid it, when in fact the "everybody" tends to be the chattering classes, not the people who end up dying when there is a war (you could compare it to the divorce law before that was sorted out - i'm sure it was a lot easier to get anullments in parts of santiago than some craphole in the middle of nowhere where the church dominates the town; you could also compare it to the armies in the uk and usa, where the lower ranks are also populated from the poorest classes, so it's not clear that getting rid of conscription helps anyway).

if there was the possibility of service outside of the military then it would be fairer, i think. the problem there, of course, is that unlike the rich countries, you have no shortage of cheap labour here. so conscripts would be replacing someone else's job.

and of course, these are just the rantings of an uninformed foreigner... (and, completely off subject, are you going to flashattack at all?)

By: carabiner

carabiner — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 16:16:00 -0800

Lithuania is not on the list. Mandatory service for men, I believe.

By: kickingtheground

kickingtheground — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 17:09:53 -0800

Yeah, Lithuania. Latvia and Estonia as well.

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 23:03:55 -0800

South Korea. Men only, 26-30 months, depending on the service.

By: biffa

biffa — Fri, 03 Dec 2004 02:25:30 -0800

Does anyone have any idea how so many EU nations have compulsory service for men only? Why isn't it made universal or banned under Human Rights legislation?

By: picea

picea — Fri, 03 Dec 2004 07:01:59 -0800

Bermuda, which is a British colony, has compulsory service in their regiment. As you can imagine, it's chump work, and my Bermudian friend has been doing his damnedest to avoid it.