Jazz music recommendations beyond Miles and Coltrane?
December 2, 2004 9:52 AM Subscribe
I want to get into Jazz music further than Miles and Coltrane (which I have been steadily listening to for the better part of a year). The problem is, I am not sure where to turn to next. Suggestions?
Charles Mingus.
If you really want to stretch your ears around some stuff that might just scramble your brain, John Zorn.
posted by loquacious at 10:00 AM on December 2, 2004
If you really want to stretch your ears around some stuff that might just scramble your brain, John Zorn.
posted by loquacious at 10:00 AM on December 2, 2004
Have you listened to Miles' and Coltrane's entire careers? What did you like best?
Personally, I really like the Modern Jazz Quartet and the classic Dave Brubeck Quartet lineup (with Paul Desmond, Joe Morello, and Eugene White.) Try "Jazz Goes to College" by Brubeck (the solo on "Balcony Rock" is some wonderful improvisation), or the classic "Time Out." And almost anything by MJQ is wonderful, especially "Django."
For more piano jazz, I really dig Oscar Peterson, especially his "Giants of Jazz" record.
And for jazz vocals, there's no beating Ella Fitzgerald. I'd start with the "Best of the Songbooks" compilation.
But tell us which Miles and which Trane you most enjoyed, and I'm sure people here (y2karl?) can recommend more things in that vein.
(And on preview: Mingus' "Pithecanthropus Erectus."
posted by Vidiot at 10:03 AM on December 2, 2004
Personally, I really like the Modern Jazz Quartet and the classic Dave Brubeck Quartet lineup (with Paul Desmond, Joe Morello, and Eugene White.) Try "Jazz Goes to College" by Brubeck (the solo on "Balcony Rock" is some wonderful improvisation), or the classic "Time Out." And almost anything by MJQ is wonderful, especially "Django."
For more piano jazz, I really dig Oscar Peterson, especially his "Giants of Jazz" record.
And for jazz vocals, there's no beating Ella Fitzgerald. I'd start with the "Best of the Songbooks" compilation.
But tell us which Miles and which Trane you most enjoyed, and I'm sure people here (y2karl?) can recommend more things in that vein.
(And on preview: Mingus' "Pithecanthropus Erectus."
posted by Vidiot at 10:03 AM on December 2, 2004
Buy these three albums and series and then see for yourself what you like. The Best Jazz Album In The World... Ever!, Ken Burns's Jazz: The Story of American Music [BOX SET] and
The Smithsonian Collection Of Classic Jazz (Series) all 5 CDs.
posted by riffola at 10:05 AM on December 2, 2004
The Smithsonian Collection Of Classic Jazz (Series) all 5 CDs.
posted by riffola at 10:05 AM on December 2, 2004
Rahsaan Roland Kirk. Rhino has an excellent two-disc overview of his career. His instrument? Sax. Oh, and flute too. Sometimes simultaneously. Really.
Charlie Parker. More bebop than your current listenings, but worthwhile to understand the territory before Coltrane. There are CDs in the wild that showcase the handful of sessions that Bird and Miles did together.
Dizzy Gillespie. Seek out Swing Low, Sweet Cadillac. Very short album, but very cool.
Chet Baker. Some may say he's too whitebread, but ignore them. Find an album like Baby Breeze, performed on a borrow flugelhorn (I believe) because Baker's own trumpet had been stolen and he couldn't afford a replacement.
posted by grabbingsand at 10:06 AM on December 2, 2004
Charlie Parker. More bebop than your current listenings, but worthwhile to understand the territory before Coltrane. There are CDs in the wild that showcase the handful of sessions that Bird and Miles did together.
Dizzy Gillespie. Seek out Swing Low, Sweet Cadillac. Very short album, but very cool.
Chet Baker. Some may say he's too whitebread, but ignore them. Find an album like Baby Breeze, performed on a borrow flugelhorn (I believe) because Baker's own trumpet had been stolen and he couldn't afford a replacement.
posted by grabbingsand at 10:06 AM on December 2, 2004
May I ask what other kinds of music interests you?
I ask because, though I'm certainly no expert on jazz, the thing that helped me to get into it was by listening to jazz that is similar to music(s) that I already knew. Specifically, blues.
One of the first jazz albums I listened to really heavily (and still one of my favorites) is Ellington's "Black, Brown, and Beige," which is nothing if not a blues record. This then allowed me to see the similarities between familiar and non-familiar musics.
I also started early on Coleman Hawkins, who, some have argued, actually made the first rock 'n' roll records. (A specious claim, I think, but still interesting.)
Jazz is a diverse enough form that, if you explore it, using fenriq's link or something like All Music Guide, you should be able to find something that refers to music you already know and love.
FWIW, I would not start with Zorn, genius though he may be.
posted by Dr. Wu at 10:25 AM on December 2, 2004
I ask because, though I'm certainly no expert on jazz, the thing that helped me to get into it was by listening to jazz that is similar to music(s) that I already knew. Specifically, blues.
One of the first jazz albums I listened to really heavily (and still one of my favorites) is Ellington's "Black, Brown, and Beige," which is nothing if not a blues record. This then allowed me to see the similarities between familiar and non-familiar musics.
I also started early on Coleman Hawkins, who, some have argued, actually made the first rock 'n' roll records. (A specious claim, I think, but still interesting.)
Jazz is a diverse enough form that, if you explore it, using fenriq's link or something like All Music Guide, you should be able to find something that refers to music you already know and love.
FWIW, I would not start with Zorn, genius though he may be.
posted by Dr. Wu at 10:25 AM on December 2, 2004
Seconding Mingus. Also, if you're feeling really freaky, Sun Ra.
posted by jonmc at 10:33 AM on December 2, 2004
posted by jonmc at 10:33 AM on December 2, 2004
There can only be one. Sun Ra.
posted by DelusionsofGrandeur at 10:34 AM on December 2, 2004
posted by DelusionsofGrandeur at 10:34 AM on December 2, 2004
i'm at about the same position as you. what i've started doing is following out the artists on the albums i liked. so, for example, you get to herbie hancock (empyrean isles is good) and cannonball adderley (somethin' else).
also, just googling round gives loads of info wen you start to follow names.
posted by andrew cooke at 10:37 AM on December 2, 2004
also, just googling round gives loads of info wen you start to follow names.
posted by andrew cooke at 10:37 AM on December 2, 2004
Thelonious Monk. "Underground" might be considered the gateway album to more hardcore Monk albums. There's nobody like him.
I'm also a fan of Bill Evans (who I believe played piano for Davis). Pretty much the opposite end of the "real jazz" spectrum, but also good.
And all the other reccos up here are good, AFAIK.
posted by adamrice at 10:39 AM on December 2, 2004
I'm also a fan of Bill Evans (who I believe played piano for Davis). Pretty much the opposite end of the "real jazz" spectrum, but also good.
And all the other reccos up here are good, AFAIK.
posted by adamrice at 10:39 AM on December 2, 2004
Second Ella and third Mingus.
posted by adampsyche at 10:40 AM on December 2, 2004
posted by adampsyche at 10:40 AM on December 2, 2004
I second Milt Jackson. Also, Michele Rosewoman and Quintessence are great, especially "Guardians of the Light."
posted by claxton6 at 10:45 AM on December 2, 2004
posted by claxton6 at 10:45 AM on December 2, 2004
There's a great album of Thelonious Monk playing with Coltrane (can't recall the title right now, but it shouldn't be difficult to find). If you like it, try some of Monks other work - it's really extraordinary stuff.
Also on the piano front, give a listen to Bud Powell. He was a protege/contemporary of Monk, but has a very different style.
As for more modern material, you can't go wrong with William Parker and you might enjoy Matthew Shipp.
On preview: adamrice beat me to Monk, but another mention doesn't hurt. He's just as much the genius that Coltrane and Davis were.
posted by aladfar at 10:50 AM on December 2, 2004
Also on the piano front, give a listen to Bud Powell. He was a protege/contemporary of Monk, but has a very different style.
As for more modern material, you can't go wrong with William Parker and you might enjoy Matthew Shipp.
On preview: adamrice beat me to Monk, but another mention doesn't hurt. He's just as much the genius that Coltrane and Davis were.
posted by aladfar at 10:50 AM on December 2, 2004
Agreed: Knowing what John Coltrane and what Miles Davis you've been listening to would certainly help. Is it the crazy Coltrane or the calm Coltrane?
I would recommend (and in some cases second and third) the following:
Charles Mingus - So many good albums, great bass solos. Almost never goes wrong.
Thelonius Monk - check out the above recommendation on Monk, but once you get a taste, know that you'll probably want more.
Art Blakey - the original jazz octopus on drums.
Charlie Parker - crazybird.
Ornett Colman - go for the early stuff after you've absorbed Parker. Avoid the later stuff, unless you become a fan.
Albert Ayer - underrated, recently highlighted in the Nation. Check out Spiritual Unity.
Also, after you've got the rough terrain of the genre mapped there are whole worlds of Fusion, Improv, and Avant Garde stuff to explore once you know what you like (some randome examples in respective order: Return to Forever, Derek Bailey, John Zorn). But as previously mentioned, I'd wait on some of this until you've digested the main stuff.
posted by safetyfork at 11:24 AM on December 2, 2004
I would recommend (and in some cases second and third) the following:
Charles Mingus - So many good albums, great bass solos. Almost never goes wrong.
Thelonius Monk - check out the above recommendation on Monk, but once you get a taste, know that you'll probably want more.
Art Blakey - the original jazz octopus on drums.
Charlie Parker - crazybird.
Ornett Colman - go for the early stuff after you've absorbed Parker. Avoid the later stuff, unless you become a fan.
Albert Ayer - underrated, recently highlighted in the Nation. Check out Spiritual Unity.
Also, after you've got the rough terrain of the genre mapped there are whole worlds of Fusion, Improv, and Avant Garde stuff to explore once you know what you like (some randome examples in respective order: Return to Forever, Derek Bailey, John Zorn). But as previously mentioned, I'd wait on some of this until you've digested the main stuff.
posted by safetyfork at 11:24 AM on December 2, 2004
I just borrowed Colman's "e" and I promised I'd give it back to good 'ol Ornette.
posted by safetyfork at 11:26 AM on December 2, 2004
posted by safetyfork at 11:26 AM on December 2, 2004
Dinah Washington is absolutely my favorite female jazz vocalist. Her voice just gives me goosebumps. Louis Armstrong and Count Basie are pretty great too.
Jazz is such a huge genre -- I'd second the suggestion that you poke around allmusic.com.
posted by katie at 11:35 AM on December 2, 2004
Jazz is such a huge genre -- I'd second the suggestion that you poke around allmusic.com.
posted by katie at 11:35 AM on December 2, 2004
Response by poster: I pretty-much listen to all genres, with a heavy emphasis on indy rock and hip-hop. I was only converted to Jazz after I heard "Kind of Blue," which blew my mind. I listened to obsessively for months. I have pretty much gone through a good chunk of Miles' catalogue (his albums are generally cheap). My favorite Coltrane is "Giant Steps," which I adore.
If I could find another album as good as "Kind of Blue," this thread will have done its job.
Some great suggestions, thanks everyone so far.
posted by Quartermass at 11:45 AM on December 2, 2004
If I could find another album as good as "Kind of Blue," this thread will have done its job.
Some great suggestions, thanks everyone so far.
posted by Quartermass at 11:45 AM on December 2, 2004
If your coming at it from a rock perspective, John McLaughlin's Mahavishnu Orchestra stuff (esp. Birds Of Fire) is really good, as is Larry Coryell's stuff.
Also, Dizzy Gillespie's stuff is not to be missed either. Bill Evans is also a mindblower. And Elvin Jones. And McCoy Tyner.
posted by jonmc at 11:47 AM on December 2, 2004
Also, Dizzy Gillespie's stuff is not to be missed either. Bill Evans is also a mindblower. And Elvin Jones. And McCoy Tyner.
posted by jonmc at 11:47 AM on December 2, 2004
- Masada is fantastic. I recommend Alef (skip the first track on first listen) or Live at Tonic for starters.
- Lounge Lizards. Try No Pain for Cakes or Live in Berlin (the volume with "one big yes" on it)
- Coltrane's A Love Supreme
- Sonny Criss - Sonny's Dream. Awesome album.
- Thelonious Monk - Misterioso
posted by dobbs at 11:55 AM on December 2, 2004
- Lounge Lizards. Try No Pain for Cakes or Live in Berlin (the volume with "one big yes" on it)
- Coltrane's A Love Supreme
- Sonny Criss - Sonny's Dream. Awesome album.
- Thelonious Monk - Misterioso
posted by dobbs at 11:55 AM on December 2, 2004
Sometime last year there was another askme thread about jazz. I was in the same place as you, so I went through the recommendations and got a bunch of stuff. The Bad Plus is my favorite from that batch. I love the album.
Another recommendation (I don't know if it was from the same thread) was Chris Botti, and that I did not like one bit. A little too "smooth jazz" for my taste.
posted by MsVader at 11:56 AM on December 2, 2004
Another recommendation (I don't know if it was from the same thread) was Chris Botti, and that I did not like one bit. A little too "smooth jazz" for my taste.
posted by MsVader at 11:56 AM on December 2, 2004
You may not find a jazz album you like as much as "Kind of Blue." Many consider it the finest album in jazz. I don't know, but it sure is pretty good.
It is so hard to recommend something because there is so much. Right now, I am listening to Dexter Gordon's "The Panther" and his sax is blowing me away. I would hit your local library and start taking out some jazz CDs. They usually do pretty well with jazz and you can listen to a whole lot of music for free The New York Times put out a book called "Essential Library - Jazz." The opinions are those of the author, but I found some good stuff by reading this.
posted by caddis at 12:03 PM on December 2, 2004
It is so hard to recommend something because there is so much. Right now, I am listening to Dexter Gordon's "The Panther" and his sax is blowing me away. I would hit your local library and start taking out some jazz CDs. They usually do pretty well with jazz and you can listen to a whole lot of music for free The New York Times put out a book called "Essential Library - Jazz." The opinions are those of the author, but I found some good stuff by reading this.
posted by caddis at 12:03 PM on December 2, 2004
Here's just a few of my faves, among many others too numerous to mention: Clifford Brown, George Cartwright, Charlie Christian,/a>, Eric Dolphy, Dave Douglas, Coleman Hawkins, Freddie Hubbard, Roland Kirk, Krzysztof Komeda, Yusef Lateef, Joe Lovano, Russell Malone, Lee Morgan, Fats Navarro, Greg Osby, Oscar Peterson, Marcus Printup, Clark Terry, Sadao Watanabe , and Lester Young.
posted by Smart Dalek at 12:03 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by Smart Dalek at 12:03 PM on December 2, 2004
Sarah Vaughan is the queen of jazz vocal standards.
Many a time, she has been the salve for what ails me.
While I think you are seeking advice with instrumental jazz musician, I would highly suggest you check out Sarah.
Her voice is an instrument. She has the best Summertime ever. Black Coffee...excellent. I could go on and on and on...
posted by Lola_G at 12:05 PM on December 2, 2004
Many a time, she has been the salve for what ails me.
While I think you are seeking advice with instrumental jazz musician, I would highly suggest you check out Sarah.
Her voice is an instrument. She has the best Summertime ever. Black Coffee...excellent. I could go on and on and on...
posted by Lola_G at 12:05 PM on December 2, 2004
You can pretty safely get anything on the Blue Note label recorded between the years of 1950 and 1965. Of particular interest to you will be Freddie Hubbard, Lee Morgan, Donald Byrd, Blue Mitchell (all trumpeters); Horace Silver, Herbie Hancock, Andrew Hill (pianists); Big John Patton, Jimmy Smith (organ); Grant Green (guitar); Eric Dolphy (flute, clarinet, sax); Jackie Mclean, Sonny Rollins (sax). etc. etc. [Sonny Rollins' Saxophone Collossus is particularly awesome, but it's not on Blue Note].
Not only is the music excellent, but the cover art is, without fail, incredible.
My favourite jazz album ever: Eric Dolphy's Out to Lunch.
[on preview - damn, I must type slowly]
posted by nylon at 12:07 PM on December 2, 2004
Not only is the music excellent, but the cover art is, without fail, incredible.
My favourite jazz album ever: Eric Dolphy's Out to Lunch.
[on preview - damn, I must type slowly]
posted by nylon at 12:07 PM on December 2, 2004
Follow the band members. I think people are indirectly suggesting that anyway: Bill Evans, Bud Powell, Herbie Hancock, Ornett Colman, etc etc, all played with Miles and Coltrane. Miles and Coltrane played together for a while. Monk played with Coltrane, too, and they're all linked with Dizzy Gillespie. Eric Dolphy played with Mingus. Etc etc.
Another way to play the association game is to look for covers. Compare Dizzy Gillespie's "Night in Tunisia" with Art Blakey's. Match Coltrane's "My Favorite Things" against Stanley Jordan's. How many "Freddie Freeloader" covers can you find? Try to track down all the original pieces that are covered on a Lambert, Hendricks and Ross album. I wouldn't make this your main way of getting around but occasionally it's fun.
posted by coelecanth at 12:09 PM on December 2, 2004
Another way to play the association game is to look for covers. Compare Dizzy Gillespie's "Night in Tunisia" with Art Blakey's. Match Coltrane's "My Favorite Things" against Stanley Jordan's. How many "Freddie Freeloader" covers can you find? Try to track down all the original pieces that are covered on a Lambert, Hendricks and Ross album. I wouldn't make this your main way of getting around but occasionally it's fun.
posted by coelecanth at 12:09 PM on December 2, 2004
Another loud, loud vote for Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie. Also, don't think I've seen any mention of Stan Getz.
L.A.'s KKJZ (home of the late Chuck "Bebop Charlie" Niles) has live and archived audio streams, by the way -- I'm a big fan of Scott Willis's "Mostly Bop" program. As corny as it sounds, when I moved to L.A. and started listening to them regularly, the whole world of jazz just opened up for me.
posted by scody at 12:10 PM on December 2, 2004
L.A.'s KKJZ (home of the late Chuck "Bebop Charlie" Niles) has live and archived audio streams, by the way -- I'm a big fan of Scott Willis's "Mostly Bop" program. As corny as it sounds, when I moved to L.A. and started listening to them regularly, the whole world of jazz just opened up for me.
posted by scody at 12:10 PM on December 2, 2004
Also, there was a great thread here last August about some new goings on in jazz.
posted by caddis at 12:14 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by caddis at 12:14 PM on December 2, 2004
I'll add Henry Threadgill, especially Too Much Sugar for a Dime, and Pharoah Sanders.
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 12:33 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 12:33 PM on December 2, 2004
ramsey lewis (the sound of christmas is seasonal, the in crowd is seminal, but hang on sloopy is my favorite, for the sheer joy of the crowd singing along, whooping and hollering>).
i'm a huge fan of lionel hampton (oh, the vibes, man, the vibes) and wes montgomery (jazz guitar).
(i have to agree that as great as Zorn is, he's not a starting point)
posted by crush-onastick at 12:44 PM on December 2, 2004
i'm a huge fan of lionel hampton (oh, the vibes, man, the vibes) and wes montgomery (jazz guitar).
(i have to agree that as great as Zorn is, he's not a starting point)
posted by crush-onastick at 12:44 PM on December 2, 2004
I would second (or third or fourth) Mingus, starting with a good anthology like Thirteen Pictures. Charlie Parker and Art Blakey are also really good starts, and a second to Lee Morgan, a very under-appreciated trumpet player (look at the solo in Blue Train for an example of his ability).
posted by tetsuo at 12:49 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by tetsuo at 12:49 PM on December 2, 2004
Brubeck. Also, it's really hard to find, but there T. Lavitz (of the Dixie Dregs), Steve Smith, Scott Henderson, and Jeff Berlin had a group/album called "Players" that came out in 1986. I really loved that album. There was a follow-on with all-acoustic instrumentation called "Players Acoustic" that I never did manage to lay my hands on.
posted by kindall at 1:04 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by kindall at 1:04 PM on December 2, 2004
Jae Sinnett is a lesser known but very good Jazz composer and percussionist with a sexy speaking voice. MMMMMmmmm... Jae... He also hosts a regularly scheduled radio program which you can catch online.
posted by onhazier at 1:07 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by onhazier at 1:07 PM on December 2, 2004
Watch the Ken Burns Jazz documentary. It's really comprehensive (with the unfortunate exception of avant-garde and free jazz) and really engrossing. You'll be an expert in under 24 hours.
posted by hydrophonic at 1:08 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by hydrophonic at 1:08 PM on December 2, 2004
You might want to try one of the Verve or Blue Note jazz remix albums. They're the best of the old and the new, timeless and fresh at once. And of course, there is always Sun Ra.
posted by euphorb at 1:23 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by euphorb at 1:23 PM on December 2, 2004
kindall: it appears that gemm has some vendors with copies of that album, vinyl and cd.
posted by crush-onastick at 1:25 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by crush-onastick at 1:25 PM on December 2, 2004
Béla Fleck and the Flecktones. Béla is a jazz banjo prodigy.
posted by The White Hat at 1:32 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by The White Hat at 1:32 PM on December 2, 2004
If your looking for a great Jazz Remix album I would certainly recommend Madlib's Shades Of Blue
I've always been a fan off Art Pepper as well and in fact was a bit surprised that nobody has mentioned him yet.
I second the Bela Fleck suggestion but I am not sure quite how jazzy you could consider them.
posted by Restlessavenger at 1:34 PM on December 2, 2004
I've always been a fan off Art Pepper as well and in fact was a bit surprised that nobody has mentioned him yet.
I second the Bela Fleck suggestion but I am not sure quite how jazzy you could consider them.
posted by Restlessavenger at 1:34 PM on December 2, 2004
Wow! Great thread. My $.02 - Ben Webster's "Soulville" for gorgeous sax tone (w/the aforementioned Oscar Peterson). Likewise Stanley Turrentine.
posted by dragstroke at 1:37 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by dragstroke at 1:37 PM on December 2, 2004
Well if it's late 50's and early '60s Miles and Coltrane that have pushed your button, then the kind of jazz you're into is bebop, and the kind of bebop you're into is called "cool" or 'West Coast" bop and especially "modal" jazz.
Some of the above-mentioned greats such as Brubeck, Stan Getz, Chet Baker, and Bill Evans are in these styles, and you might also like Gerry Mulligan, Jim Hall, Paul Desmond, McCoy Tyner, Tommy Flanagan... Someone recommended above and it's a good idea to try the other groups led by Miles' and Coltrane's sidemen.
But bebop is an improvisational and conversational form of music - it's really a form of joke-telling among the players - and the real thrill is in live performance, so your new favorite groups should be whoever's coming to town...
posted by nicwolff at 1:38 PM on December 2, 2004
Some of the above-mentioned greats such as Brubeck, Stan Getz, Chet Baker, and Bill Evans are in these styles, and you might also like Gerry Mulligan, Jim Hall, Paul Desmond, McCoy Tyner, Tommy Flanagan... Someone recommended above and it's a good idea to try the other groups led by Miles' and Coltrane's sidemen.
But bebop is an improvisational and conversational form of music - it's really a form of joke-telling among the players - and the real thrill is in live performance, so your new favorite groups should be whoever's coming to town...
posted by nicwolff at 1:38 PM on December 2, 2004
I don't recall who Bela Fleck is using for a bassist right now, but his old bassist, Victor Wooten was a freakin' animal.
On a more modern front, I'm a huge fan of The Bad Plus, and Medeski Martin and Wood. However, MMW recently is less jazz-jam than it used to be (but they are still excellent).
posted by icey at 1:44 PM on December 2, 2004
On a more modern front, I'm a huge fan of The Bad Plus, and Medeski Martin and Wood. However, MMW recently is less jazz-jam than it used to be (but they are still excellent).
posted by icey at 1:44 PM on December 2, 2004
For those of you recommending Sun Ra: what's a good album to start with?
posted by mr_roboto at 2:04 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by mr_roboto at 2:04 PM on December 2, 2004
Great thread indeed. I thought myself as a jazz connoisseur, but I now humbly bow to your collective knowledge. I have a lot of new listening to do now.
Yay!
posted by BlueTrain at 2:11 PM on December 2, 2004
Yay!
posted by BlueTrain at 2:11 PM on December 2, 2004
My personal fave Sun Ra is "Space is the Place".
posted by DelusionsofGrandeur at 2:16 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by DelusionsofGrandeur at 2:16 PM on December 2, 2004
Bela Fleck has been recording a lot with the bassist Edgar Meyer. From what I know, they've been doing Meyer's kind of hillbilly classical compositions. Really, really good, but not what the poster asked about.
But on topic, I'll second the recommendation of T. Monk's Underground. It's also got about the best record cover, evar. Lester Bowie's Brass Fantasy has done some stuff that reminds of of Kind of Blue. An if you can find it, I'm a huge friend of Richard Davis & Friends, Live at the Sweet Basil. It's just brilliant, and Davis was the bassist on a number of Eric Dolphy's records.
posted by stet at 2:17 PM on December 2, 2004
But on topic, I'll second the recommendation of T. Monk's Underground. It's also got about the best record cover, evar. Lester Bowie's Brass Fantasy has done some stuff that reminds of of Kind of Blue. An if you can find it, I'm a huge friend of Richard Davis & Friends, Live at the Sweet Basil. It's just brilliant, and Davis was the bassist on a number of Eric Dolphy's records.
posted by stet at 2:17 PM on December 2, 2004
It's a very rich time for the meeting of jazz and hip-hop. '90s efforts like Us3 and Guru's Jazzmatazz albums never quite grabbed me the way Herbie Hancock's '80s work with Bill Laswell and DXT did, but Livehuman, Thirsty Ear's Blue Series and the various Madlib incarnations are all very appealing. For that matter, a lot of turntablist kinda stuff (I'm thinking here of both scratch composition and crate-digging sample-based music) approaches jazz in both theory and practice.
Also, I don't think anyone has mentioned Lambert, Hendricks and Ross (especially recommended if you like beatboxing).
posted by box at 2:20 PM on December 2, 2004
Also, I don't think anyone has mentioned Lambert, Hendricks and Ross (especially recommended if you like beatboxing).
posted by box at 2:20 PM on December 2, 2004
Wow, what a fabulous thread!
For a recent, contemporary take on a master, get the Kronos Quartet album of Bill Evans' music. I've never heard Song for Debbie played better. A wonderful, 'cool' album.
posted by dbmcd at 2:29 PM on December 2, 2004
For a recent, contemporary take on a master, get the Kronos Quartet album of Bill Evans' music. I've never heard Song for Debbie played better. A wonderful, 'cool' album.
posted by dbmcd at 2:29 PM on December 2, 2004
Kronos Quartet did a great album of Monk songs as well.
posted by stet at 2:31 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by stet at 2:31 PM on December 2, 2004
For those of you recommending Sun Ra: what's a good album to start with?
My first Sun Ra album was Out There a Minute from the Madison Public Library. Jazz in Silhouette is a good one to start with too.
I really like the live albums from the Ann Arbor Blues and Jazz Festival (1972 through 1974). Lots of energy and you can hear the crowd getting worked up. Life is Splendid is also my recommendation for the happy music thread.
posted by hydrophonic at 2:32 PM on December 2, 2004
My first Sun Ra album was Out There a Minute from the Madison Public Library. Jazz in Silhouette is a good one to start with too.
I really like the live albums from the Ann Arbor Blues and Jazz Festival (1972 through 1974). Lots of energy and you can hear the crowd getting worked up. Life is Splendid is also my recommendation for the happy music thread.
posted by hydrophonic at 2:32 PM on December 2, 2004
box: Have you heard Karl Denson? He has acquired a jam-band/Phishlike following, but don't let that discourage you. He combines jazz, hip-hop, and turntablism to very interesting effect.
I forgot also to recommend Fats Waller, whose irresistible music opened many, many doors for me. Same for Billie Holiday: this monumental ten-disc set is absolutely magnificent.
posted by Dr. Wu at 2:43 PM on December 2, 2004
I forgot also to recommend Fats Waller, whose irresistible music opened many, many doors for me. Same for Billie Holiday: this monumental ten-disc set is absolutely magnificent.
posted by Dr. Wu at 2:43 PM on December 2, 2004
Well if it's late 50's and early '60s Miles and Coltrane that have pushed your button, then the kind of jazz you're into is bebop
Bebop was long dead by then -- it died with Bird as a current thing, though of course as a form it'll always be around, along with New Orleans, swing, &c. The late-50s stuff is often called "hard bop," not that it matters much what you call it. The problem with the question is that it doesn't offer much to go on, so it's basically "what jazz is good?" Since my taste is not necessarily your taste (although I love Miles and middle-period Trane), I can only suggest getting hold of the Penguin Guide to Jazz on CD -- their taste is wide and generally reliable; you won't like everything they do, of course, but you'll quickly learn to calibrate what they say against what you know you like. And if they're particularly enthusiastic about a record, give it a try even if you're dubious about it -- I've discovered some of my very favorite musicians that way! To get you started, here's a page with links to the Penguin Guide's "four-star" albums, the ones they consider the best of the best, as well as some other best-jazz lists. Ooh, and I see that "For the first time, in the seventh edition [which I don't have], Cook and Morton have offered a 'Core Collection' of 182 entries" -- I'll have to check that out.
Enjoy!
posted by languagehat at 2:57 PM on December 2, 2004
Bebop was long dead by then -- it died with Bird as a current thing, though of course as a form it'll always be around, along with New Orleans, swing, &c. The late-50s stuff is often called "hard bop," not that it matters much what you call it. The problem with the question is that it doesn't offer much to go on, so it's basically "what jazz is good?" Since my taste is not necessarily your taste (although I love Miles and middle-period Trane), I can only suggest getting hold of the Penguin Guide to Jazz on CD -- their taste is wide and generally reliable; you won't like everything they do, of course, but you'll quickly learn to calibrate what they say against what you know you like. And if they're particularly enthusiastic about a record, give it a try even if you're dubious about it -- I've discovered some of my very favorite musicians that way! To get you started, here's a page with links to the Penguin Guide's "four-star" albums, the ones they consider the best of the best, as well as some other best-jazz lists. Ooh, and I see that "For the first time, in the seventh edition [which I don't have], Cook and Morton have offered a 'Core Collection' of 182 entries" -- I'll have to check that out.
Enjoy!
posted by languagehat at 2:57 PM on December 2, 2004
Response by poster: My head is spinning. This is awesome.
posted by Quartermass at 3:09 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by Quartermass at 3:09 PM on December 2, 2004
Jon Faddis has the most insane trumpet chops, even better than maynard ferguson. And he's a better jazz player too, although he likes the dizzy gillespie barrage-of-notes style that I'm not such a big fan of.
Clifford Brown is an amazing melodic improviser on trumpet, and also one of the saddest stories in jazz. In the era of Charlie Parker's heroin addiction and musicians stealing from each other to pay for rent and fixes, showing up to practices high or not at all, Clifford was a straight-edge family man who showed up to practices early to warm up and stayed afterwards to help instruct younger players. When he died in a tragic car accident at age 25, many other players simply walked off the stage or cut the recording session short.
posted by spatula at 3:38 PM on December 2, 2004
Clifford Brown is an amazing melodic improviser on trumpet, and also one of the saddest stories in jazz. In the era of Charlie Parker's heroin addiction and musicians stealing from each other to pay for rent and fixes, showing up to practices high or not at all, Clifford was a straight-edge family man who showed up to practices early to warm up and stayed afterwards to help instruct younger players. When he died in a tragic car accident at age 25, many other players simply walked off the stage or cut the recording session short.
posted by spatula at 3:38 PM on December 2, 2004
I have a special affinity for Jazz from the mid 50's to the mid 60's. So here are a few of my favorite "hard bop" and "cool school" artists / albums:
Definitely check out the Art Blakey Jazz Messengers. Blakey's band continually had incredible people passing through it, including trumpeters Lee Morgan and Freddie Hubbard sax player Wayne Shorter among many others. I'd also give a listen to the Benny Golson / Art Farmer Jazztet. For the west coast "cool school" I'd check out the Gerry Mulligan / Chet Baker Quartet. They've got some really tasty counterpoint playing going on. Miles has an album from around then that is interestingly less bop and more orchestral in nature - Sketches of Spain. Also from that period, I recommend listening to Cannonball Adderly's Quintet, with his brother Nat Adderly on trumpet and Bobby Timmons on piano. Great stuff. Oh, I'd also check out Blue Mitchell on trumpet, for his clean swinging style. Alright, alright, I'm done...
posted by lpqboy at 4:07 PM on December 2, 2004 [1 favorite]
Definitely check out the Art Blakey Jazz Messengers. Blakey's band continually had incredible people passing through it, including trumpeters Lee Morgan and Freddie Hubbard sax player Wayne Shorter among many others. I'd also give a listen to the Benny Golson / Art Farmer Jazztet. For the west coast "cool school" I'd check out the Gerry Mulligan / Chet Baker Quartet. They've got some really tasty counterpoint playing going on. Miles has an album from around then that is interestingly less bop and more orchestral in nature - Sketches of Spain. Also from that period, I recommend listening to Cannonball Adderly's Quintet, with his brother Nat Adderly on trumpet and Bobby Timmons on piano. Great stuff. Oh, I'd also check out Blue Mitchell on trumpet, for his clean swinging style. Alright, alright, I'm done...
posted by lpqboy at 4:07 PM on December 2, 2004 [1 favorite]
lpqboy, thanks! The mid-'50s to mid-'60s stuff is what I've found I seem to like the most, too, so that's really helpful for me, too.
posted by scody at 4:46 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by scody at 4:46 PM on December 2, 2004
Follow the band members. I think people are indirectly suggesting that anyway: Bill Evans, Bud Powell, Herbie Hancock, Ornett Colman, etc etc, all played with Miles and Coltrane. Miles and Coltrane played together for a while. Monk played with Coltrane, too, and they're all linked with Dizzy Gillespie. Eric Dolphy played with Mingus. Etc etc.
this is the way to go. n degrees of separation get you from someone you know and like to pretty much any other jazz musician.
posted by juv3nal at 5:11 PM on December 2, 2004
this is the way to go. n degrees of separation get you from someone you know and like to pretty much any other jazz musician.
posted by juv3nal at 5:11 PM on December 2, 2004
If I could find another album as good as "Kind of Blue," this thread will have done its job."Kind of Blue" is the quintessential jazz album. If you find another album as good, this thread will attain historic significance.
Some suggestions above are better than others. It's difficult to predict any individual's reaction to art, particularly with a broad scope like, "I like some Miles and Coltrane." I'll try to cast a wide net with a few specific suggestions.
1.) Sam Rivers: Celebration. [Posi-Tone Records 8017, ©2004.] This will be on most critics' lists for 2004. Rivers has walked 11 steps ahead of the crowd his entire career. This concert was recorded live days after his 80th birthday, proving he hadn't slowed a bit. "Celebration" is the third release from his adroit trio: Rivers plays soprano and tenor saxophones, flute, and piano; Doug Mathews plays upright bass, bass guitar, and bass clarinet; and Anthony Cole plays drums, tenor saxophone, and piano. They're like the Triple Changers of jazz bands.
2.) Bob Brookmeyer: Get Well Soon. [Challenge Records 70111, ©2003.] Brookmeyer is the most intelligent, articulate soloist and composer alive. This is the third release from his New Art Orchestra, showcasing his most recent work for large ensemble. If you prefer small groups heavy on improvisation, Brookmeyer has released a bunch of those in the past two years: "Full Circle" with Ed Dix, "One Night in Vermont" with Ted Rosenthal, and "Stay Out of the Sun" with his Los Angeles quartet. Casual listeners often don't appreciate larger compositions, but they require exponentially more thought, planning, talent, and skill. If you learn to appreciate them, you'll be glad. (And if so, check out Toshiko Akiyoshi, George Russell, Jim McNeely, and Maria Schneider. Then go backward to Thad Jones and Gerry Mulligan's Concert Jazz Band. Et cetera.)
3.) David S. Ware: Wisdom of Uncertainty. [AUM Fidelity 001, ©1997.] You're getting a lot of free jazz suggestions above, including Matthew Shipp and William Parker. Here's your introduction. The quartet consists of Ware, Shipp, Parker, and Susie Ibarra -- and I can't say enough good things about any of them. If this sounds like random noise to you, consider two things. Michael Brecker, recognized as among the most accomplished saxophonists in recent years, contributed glowing liner notes to Ware's solo album on Splasc(H). If Brecker hears something, it's probably there. And I'll paraphrase the best description I've read of Shipp's playing: He grabs a glittering Christmas ornament, smashes it into a thousand pieces, and deftly reassambles them into something equally beautiful. Listen to how they manipulate motives.
4.) Dave Holland: Extended Play. [ECM Records 1864/65, ©2003.] Miles Davis' 1960s quintet with Shorter, Hancock et al. was probably the most legendary band in jazz history. I don't know if this quintet equals that reputation, but there's definitely an analogy to be made. The level of composition and improvisation this band displays is rare in mainstream jazz. They released four albums. This live double-disc is the best start.
5.) Alex Riel: Celebration. [Stunt Records 00232, ©2000.] The title's a coincidence. This was recorded live on Riel's 60th birthday, as a present for him. It sounds corny to say his bandmates' love made this performance shine, but listen and see for yourself. This is absolutely one of the best live recordings I've heard. If you like Keith Jarrett's trio approach to standards, you'll love this record. And vice versa.
I could go on forever. I could explain Joe Maneri's microtonal masterpieces, or compare Richie Beirach to J.S. Bach and Hal Crook to Charlie Parker, or convince you that Bill Frisell deserves mention alongside Georgia O'Keefe and William Faulkner. I'll exercise restraint and yield the floor, but anyone should feel free to email me if they'd like to read more. The only thing more rewarding than enjoying music is helping others to enjoy music.
If it matters: I majored in Jazz Composition; I've written for and performed with jazz orchestras; and I'm a former jazz journalist and a member of the Jazz Journalists Association.
posted by cribcage at 5:34 PM on December 2, 2004
I'm not especially jazz-savvy and everyone's mentioned almost everyone I could think of.
Though I can't believe no one's mentioned Nina Simone. She really picked up where Billie Holiday left off in terms of jazz as protest music and plays her own piano. Total badass.
Also, Cleo Laine is worth your time. I have a compilation called "Ridin' High: The British Sessions 1960-71" that a friend of my dad's bought me in high school when he found out I was into Billie Holiday and stuff. She does a lot of interesting stuff, including standards and a version of Shakespearse's "Fear no more the heat o' the sun" sonnet set to music that's just stunning.
posted by SoftRain at 7:08 PM on December 2, 2004
Though I can't believe no one's mentioned Nina Simone. She really picked up where Billie Holiday left off in terms of jazz as protest music and plays her own piano. Total badass.
Also, Cleo Laine is worth your time. I have a compilation called "Ridin' High: The British Sessions 1960-71" that a friend of my dad's bought me in high school when he found out I was into Billie Holiday and stuff. She does a lot of interesting stuff, including standards and a version of Shakespearse's "Fear no more the heat o' the sun" sonnet set to music that's just stunning.
posted by SoftRain at 7:08 PM on December 2, 2004
My preference is for "whoopass jazz" -- that's all I can call it. If the instrumentation is heavy on the brass sections, I usually dig it. Coltrane's Africa Brass Sessions and Miles Davis's Birth of the Cool . . Maybe not yet mentioned: Stan Kenton, the Adderleys, Clarke/Boland Big Band . . . Duke Ellington's quite worthy too. This thread is awesomely helpful.
posted by oldtimey at 7:49 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by oldtimey at 7:49 PM on December 2, 2004
some random suggestions: yusef lateef for flute; roland kirk for the kazoo and various other instruments; eric dolphy (clarinet, sax) for explorations in rhythm; tony williams for beats; andrew hill (piano) for his pointilism; jimmy smith (organ) for groove, sonny rollins (sax) for his fat, organic tone; mahavishnu orchestra and charles lloyd for hippies; cecil taylor (piano) to contort your mind; ornette coleman for free form; charlie hunter (guitar) for versatility (hunter also has began forays, at least at his live shows, into hiphop).
posted by ch3ch2oh at 9:06 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by ch3ch2oh at 9:06 PM on December 2, 2004
Whoopass Jazz. I like that. And it makes a worthwhile point: Contrary to popular belief, all jazz is not meant to be played softly. No, I wouldn't crank Oscar Peterson or Nat Cole to 11. But pop in Johnny Griffin and the Great Danes, recorded live at the Molde Jazzfestival in 1996. Listen to Griffin and Jesper Thilo slugging it out on tenor saxophones. More to the point, check out bassist Mads Vinding, who is really the star of this recording, hammering away beneath the beat like a friggin' locomotive.
That disc is more heavy metal than Megadeth. There's no way that music is meant to be played softly.
posted by cribcage at 10:11 PM on December 2, 2004
That disc is more heavy metal than Megadeth. There's no way that music is meant to be played softly.
posted by cribcage at 10:11 PM on December 2, 2004
Tom Harrell is an absolutely amazing trumpet player. Seeing him live is a little bit odd (he's got pretty severe schizophrenia and doesn't seem comfortable at all unless he's actually playing), but if you get a chance to see him perform, do it.
posted by Vidiot at 10:22 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by Vidiot at 10:22 PM on December 2, 2004
The history of recorded jazz is now about 80 years or so, so there is a lot to choose from (though anything from before the advent of electronic recording around 1928 will be a little hard to listen to for most non enthusiasts). You may wish to work your way both backwards and forwards from the Miles/Coltrane era.
Some early good stuff would include Louis Armstrong of course, but also Jelly Roll Morton, Bix Beiderbecke, Fletcher Henderson, Benny Moten, Fats Waller, and so on in to the rise of swing into the thirties and forties: Benny Goodman and so on (some of it -- the Glenn Miller end-- more dance music than true jazz, but such bands often hired really good musicians, so not all is too "pop").
And of course Duke Ellington stands astride big band jazz like a colossus, both as a band leader and composer (and a fine pianist too).
Many fine musicians spanned several periods/styles. For example Coleman Hawkins, probably the first star of the tenor saxophone, was playing from the twenties until the sixties, evolving his style not so much to match new trends but in a way that was compatible with much of what came after. He also hired people like Monk and Gillespie in the early forties when they were starting out and beginning to evolve bebop.
There are also some odd corners that are worth exploration if you have the time and inclination: there's a rather good Rough Guide to Gypsy Swing, some interesting South African swing from the forties (kwella and the like) and so on.
There are many fine books to help guide you, but there is just so much available it can be a bit overwhelming; don't worry too much though as you don't have to listen to, or like, everything. Don't let the snobs and purists who are out there spoil your fun.
---
As to recently released stuff, some of the people whom I like and whom I have been playing over the last six months or so include, in no particular order:
John Scofield, Veryan Weston, Art Ensemble of Chicago, McCoy Tyner, Keith Jarrett/Gary Peacock/Jack DeJohnette, Jean-Jaques Avenel, Michael Brecker/Joe Lovano/Dave Liebman, Enrico Rava, Ken Vandermark, Dave Douglas, Von Freman, Tomasz Stanko, Chris Potter, Ben Allison, Marilyn Crispell... and so on.
Enjoy!
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 10:23 PM on December 2, 2004
Some early good stuff would include Louis Armstrong of course, but also Jelly Roll Morton, Bix Beiderbecke, Fletcher Henderson, Benny Moten, Fats Waller, and so on in to the rise of swing into the thirties and forties: Benny Goodman and so on (some of it -- the Glenn Miller end-- more dance music than true jazz, but such bands often hired really good musicians, so not all is too "pop").
And of course Duke Ellington stands astride big band jazz like a colossus, both as a band leader and composer (and a fine pianist too).
Many fine musicians spanned several periods/styles. For example Coleman Hawkins, probably the first star of the tenor saxophone, was playing from the twenties until the sixties, evolving his style not so much to match new trends but in a way that was compatible with much of what came after. He also hired people like Monk and Gillespie in the early forties when they were starting out and beginning to evolve bebop.
There are also some odd corners that are worth exploration if you have the time and inclination: there's a rather good Rough Guide to Gypsy Swing, some interesting South African swing from the forties (kwella and the like) and so on.
There are many fine books to help guide you, but there is just so much available it can be a bit overwhelming; don't worry too much though as you don't have to listen to, or like, everything. Don't let the snobs and purists who are out there spoil your fun.
---
As to recently released stuff, some of the people whom I like and whom I have been playing over the last six months or so include, in no particular order:
John Scofield, Veryan Weston, Art Ensemble of Chicago, McCoy Tyner, Keith Jarrett/Gary Peacock/Jack DeJohnette, Jean-Jaques Avenel, Michael Brecker/Joe Lovano/Dave Liebman, Enrico Rava, Ken Vandermark, Dave Douglas, Von Freman, Tomasz Stanko, Chris Potter, Ben Allison, Marilyn Crispell... and so on.
Enjoy!
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 10:23 PM on December 2, 2004
I'd also add Charlie Christian (try "Genius of the Electric Guitar"), Benny Goodman (the 1938 Carnegie Hall concert), and Duke Ellington (the 1940 Carnegie Hall concert or especially the 1956 Newport concert).
posted by Vidiot at 10:29 PM on December 2, 2004
posted by Vidiot at 10:29 PM on December 2, 2004
Art Tatum. legend is ,learned to play on a player piano ,by feeling the keys.(he was blind) and accidently discovered a new improvisational form. the piano rolls were for four hands!
he had an influence on Parker, who other musicans had difficulty playing with, until after Tatum. that said Sun Ra and his arcestra's, blue delight, easy to like, swings, and is out there.
posted by hortense at 12:14 AM on December 3, 2004
he had an influence on Parker, who other musicans had difficulty playing with, until after Tatum. that said Sun Ra and his arcestra's, blue delight, easy to like, swings, and is out there.
posted by hortense at 12:14 AM on December 3, 2004
I think that reading some would be worthwhile. I really like Tom Piazza as a writer, and I think that his book Guide to Classic Recorded Jazz is really, really good. He does a great job of situating movements and responses and explaining some of the personalities. He also has a good sense of essential recordings, which will allow you to (maybe) start with the cream before moving to the milk.
Be a bit wary of Burn's Jazz, he tends to be very traditional, which is not always the best story about jazz.
posted by OmieWise at 6:58 AM on December 3, 2004
Be a bit wary of Burn's Jazz, he tends to be very traditional, which is not always the best story about jazz.
posted by OmieWise at 6:58 AM on December 3, 2004
Wow -- cribcage justifies opening MeFi registration all by himself. I want all those records, right now. And I second lpqboy's and Vidiot's recommendations; I took my brother to see Tom Harrell at the Vanguard and we were both blown away.
posted by languagehat at 9:43 AM on December 3, 2004
posted by languagehat at 9:43 AM on December 3, 2004
fwiw i just bought hh's headhunters and it's on repeat as i type this. it claims to be the best selling jazz album of all time (which i thought was kind of blue). anyway, it's good (obviously, i guess).
posted by andrew cooke at 9:57 AM on December 3, 2004
posted by andrew cooke at 9:57 AM on December 3, 2004
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Afro-Cuban All Stars, Billie Holliday, Ella Fitzgerald, Grover Washington, Touch and Go and Norah Jones.
The other thing you might want to do is use Music Plasma to find artists that are influences of and influenced by Davis and Coltrane. Check it out, its a neat visual way to explore music.
posted by fenriq at 9:57 AM on December 2, 2004