Hey you kids, get off of my shared lawn!
June 7, 2009 10:20 AM Subscribe
What can I do about young people in our condo/townhouse complex?
We live in a condo/townhouse complex that used to be young professionals and seniors. We rent. Majority of people own. It was great. Now it is not so great.
In the past year, 4 groups of college students have moved in. If Craigslist ads are any indication, they're living 2 or 3 or 4 people in a bedroom (6-8-10 in a townhouse). (I often see ads on Craigslist for our complex that say "be the 3rd girl in a bedroom" or "shared bedroom for rent" like this ad recently.)
I don't want to be all "hey kids, get off my lawn" but here are the problems:
1. The garage is a 2 car. With this many roommates, they're parking in the guest spots (that are for the whole complex.) There are never any free spaces now and as such people are parking in the fire lane and in front of garage doors (makes it hard to get out.)
2. With all the extra outside parking going on, EVERY NIGHT between 11pm until 4am, kids are getting in and out of cars and talking loudly. This always wakes me up and often wakes my baby up. Closing the window is not an option. Ear plugs are not an option. Last night at 3am I got up and said out the window, "Are you gonna come and put my baby back to sleep?" They laughed. I'm considering walking outside in my robe with a crying baby to send a stronger statement.
3. We all share trash/recycling. They do not flatten their cardboard. The trash is now full soon after pick up and we've had increased raccoons and skunks. The recycling people refused to empty the overflowing bins for 2 weeks and someone wrote a note about flattening cardboard. It is them not flattening, due to the address on packages and that it didn't happen before they moved in.
4. They drive really fast in our shared driveway. I have a baby and there are many cats that roam freely. There is already a "slow" sign at the top of the driveway.
5. There are all sorts of young adults hanging out all day and night. Smoking outside, hanging out in cars, etc. While I don't feel unsafe, I don't feel as safe as I used to when I knew my neighbors.
I know that this could be way worse. It could be drug dealers, gang members, prostitutes, pit bulls, etc.
I know that I could move, but we're only here for another year or two and finding a place that is dog-friendly is tough. We also love the neighborhood that we live in. SO also has a carpool and I have an express bus stop nearby. There is also a nice park behind us.
So, what can I do? I assumed that the HOA would "take care of it" but they haven't yet, although they are working on the parking violations. I plan on writing up something similar to the above for the HOA.
I was thinking about writing a letter and posting it at the mailboxes... "Dear college students. Please be quiet at night outside, treat the trash/recycling as a shared resource, and stop parking in the guest spots." ???
I can't find any noise policy for Santa Barbara. I don't know if calling the cops is useful, as the noise will probably end by the time the cops arrive.
We live in a condo/townhouse complex that used to be young professionals and seniors. We rent. Majority of people own. It was great. Now it is not so great.
In the past year, 4 groups of college students have moved in. If Craigslist ads are any indication, they're living 2 or 3 or 4 people in a bedroom (6-8-10 in a townhouse). (I often see ads on Craigslist for our complex that say "be the 3rd girl in a bedroom" or "shared bedroom for rent" like this ad recently.)
I don't want to be all "hey kids, get off my lawn" but here are the problems:
1. The garage is a 2 car. With this many roommates, they're parking in the guest spots (that are for the whole complex.) There are never any free spaces now and as such people are parking in the fire lane and in front of garage doors (makes it hard to get out.)
2. With all the extra outside parking going on, EVERY NIGHT between 11pm until 4am, kids are getting in and out of cars and talking loudly. This always wakes me up and often wakes my baby up. Closing the window is not an option. Ear plugs are not an option. Last night at 3am I got up and said out the window, "Are you gonna come and put my baby back to sleep?" They laughed. I'm considering walking outside in my robe with a crying baby to send a stronger statement.
3. We all share trash/recycling. They do not flatten their cardboard. The trash is now full soon after pick up and we've had increased raccoons and skunks. The recycling people refused to empty the overflowing bins for 2 weeks and someone wrote a note about flattening cardboard. It is them not flattening, due to the address on packages and that it didn't happen before they moved in.
4. They drive really fast in our shared driveway. I have a baby and there are many cats that roam freely. There is already a "slow" sign at the top of the driveway.
5. There are all sorts of young adults hanging out all day and night. Smoking outside, hanging out in cars, etc. While I don't feel unsafe, I don't feel as safe as I used to when I knew my neighbors.
I know that this could be way worse. It could be drug dealers, gang members, prostitutes, pit bulls, etc.
I know that I could move, but we're only here for another year or two and finding a place that is dog-friendly is tough. We also love the neighborhood that we live in. SO also has a carpool and I have an express bus stop nearby. There is also a nice park behind us.
So, what can I do? I assumed that the HOA would "take care of it" but they haven't yet, although they are working on the parking violations. I plan on writing up something similar to the above for the HOA.
I was thinking about writing a letter and posting it at the mailboxes... "Dear college students. Please be quiet at night outside, treat the trash/recycling as a shared resource, and stop parking in the guest spots." ???
I can't find any noise policy for Santa Barbara. I don't know if calling the cops is useful, as the noise will probably end by the time the cops arrive.
Don't bother with a passive-aggressive note. Just do what I had to do last night when a group of kids were fighting in front of our house at 3AM, waking my wife and me up: call the cops. Keep calling them until it becomes such as hassle (either for the cops or the kids) that it stops. I felt bad for a split second about being all "you kids get off my lawn"—but hey, I've got a mortgage and a job. When they grow up, maybe they will too and they'll understand.
And even if the noise is over and done by the time they get there, most cops will still tap on the door and make it known that a complaint has been made. Cops seem to like that sort if thing. As long as you're paying them, you might as well use them.
On preview, I feel I should make it known that yes I was 20 once. I spent all my time telling myself to get off my lawn.
posted by littlerobothead at 10:32 AM on June 7, 2009
And even if the noise is over and done by the time they get there, most cops will still tap on the door and make it known that a complaint has been made. Cops seem to like that sort if thing. As long as you're paying them, you might as well use them.
On preview, I feel I should make it known that yes I was 20 once. I spent all my time telling myself to get off my lawn.
posted by littlerobothead at 10:32 AM on June 7, 2009
If there are that many unrelated people living in one condo, I am guessing it is probably illegal in your municipality. You may want to check on that as well.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 10:32 AM on June 7, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 10:32 AM on June 7, 2009 [2 favorites]
If it's a condo, then there is probably a condo board made up of owners (not sure about CA, but in CT most condos have condo associations that enforce the policies of the community. My sister's been dragged to "condo court" many times for infractions as small as leaving a pair of shoes outside the front door). Write letters to the condo board. There might be condo rules about permanent parking in guest spots, garbage, noise, loitering and even maximum number of occupants per unit. If you are a renter, then you may have to work with your landlord as the owner to get to the board, but your landlord should know what is going on. If you are a good tenant, your landlord will want to keep you rather then incur the expense of having to find a new tenant once your lease it up and you leave for better circumstances.
At any rate, I don't think anything you do personally with them is going to change anything. If they are young college kids, then they are thinking like young college kids and will continue to laugh at you. You need to access the authorities at your disposal who can handle these things legally.
posted by archimago at 10:39 AM on June 7, 2009
At any rate, I don't think anything you do personally with them is going to change anything. If they are young college kids, then they are thinking like young college kids and will continue to laugh at you. You need to access the authorities at your disposal who can handle these things legally.
posted by archimago at 10:39 AM on June 7, 2009
In many areas its illegal for a certain number of unrelated people to live together. When you call the cops you can ask them about this. I know that in college towns the cops look the other way as long as the students stay in the "student ghetto," but if the kids start doing this type of group living in areas that are traditionally for families then they are more willing to look into it.
posted by gatorae at 10:40 AM on June 7, 2009
posted by gatorae at 10:40 AM on June 7, 2009
If Craigslist ads are any indication, they're living 2 or 3 or 4 people in a bedroom (6-8-10 in a townhouse).
This is a fire code violation and a safety hazard for all involved -- it's an "illegal boarding house." Get in touch with the department that enforces code violations and call, call, call. Cops can make arrests if they're breaking the law, but it's bureaucrats who can actually reduce the number of people living in the townhomes nearby.
posted by junkbox at 10:41 AM on June 7, 2009
This is a fire code violation and a safety hazard for all involved -- it's an "illegal boarding house." Get in touch with the department that enforces code violations and call, call, call. Cops can make arrests if they're breaking the law, but it's bureaucrats who can actually reduce the number of people living in the townhomes nearby.
posted by junkbox at 10:41 AM on June 7, 2009
I agree with the above. Some communities, especially those near colleges (as I'm assuming yours is) have limits on unrelated people living together. It seems likely that the situation you are is is what those laws are meant to protect against.
If you really want to get creative, try and see if there is a limit on occupants in the building due to fire codes as well. That many people living together seems like a fire hazard to me.
I would recommend trying to do this a covertly as possible so you don't have any sort of revenge acts done to you or your property.
Good luck.
posted by elder18 at 10:43 AM on June 7, 2009
If you really want to get creative, try and see if there is a limit on occupants in the building due to fire codes as well. That many people living together seems like a fire hazard to me.
I would recommend trying to do this a covertly as possible so you don't have any sort of revenge acts done to you or your property.
Good luck.
posted by elder18 at 10:43 AM on June 7, 2009
If you feel this way as a renter, imagine how the condo owners feel! Talk to your other neighbors, and urge them to contact the HOA. Then do the things recommended above. The kids already know they're annoying - they don't care. For many of them, this may be their first experience living outside of home or the dorms - they're high on freedom and are ignorant of good apartment living manners. Talking to them personally is not going to help.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 10:50 AM on June 7, 2009
posted by The Light Fantastic at 10:50 AM on June 7, 2009
Consider getting an attorney and bringing suit against the condo association/management if they are not enforcing the rules of the community.
But, bottom line, the easy solution is probably to move...
posted by HuronBob at 10:51 AM on June 7, 2009
But, bottom line, the easy solution is probably to move...
posted by HuronBob at 10:51 AM on June 7, 2009
No really practical advice about contacting your HOA or whatever but I'd advise against framing it as a problem of "those young people" who moved in. They sound obnoxious on an epic scale and I'd be fuming too; collecting the goofy Craigslist ads, documenting their stupid behavior, calling the cops when the noise gets out of hand, and probably taking pictures of things like the parking violations/recycling piling up/wevs. But calling them "young people." They are young, but that's not really relevant; they're jerks, and inconsiderate neighbors. Concentrate on that, the bad behavior.
Hope this situation gets resolved; how ghastly.
<-- curmudgeon at 26
posted by Neofelis at 10:51 AM on June 7, 2009 [6 favorites]
Hope this situation gets resolved; how ghastly.
<-- curmudgeon at 26
posted by Neofelis at 10:51 AM on June 7, 2009 [6 favorites]
As a former loud college student, a friendly knock on the door and "hey, we're trying to sleep" would have done a whole lot more than the noise complaints we got called on us.
However, I'm not a typical college student.
posted by dunkadunc at 10:52 AM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
However, I'm not a typical college student.
posted by dunkadunc at 10:52 AM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: @dunkadunc - making a phone call is a lot easier than getting myself dressed, getting the baby dressed, finding my keys and shoes, walking over to the other place, etc.
posted by k8t at 10:55 AM on June 7, 2009
posted by k8t at 10:55 AM on June 7, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks all.
I'll start calling the non-emergency police number when this happens. I'll also do some camera phone photos of the parking and trash issues. I probably need to figure out exactly which condos they're in.
I'll also politely ask other neighbors if they're annoyed as well and to also submit letters/calls to the HOA.
I emailed our landlord and told her what was going on and that I was going to contact the HOA.
posted by k8t at 10:58 AM on June 7, 2009
I'll start calling the non-emergency police number when this happens. I'll also do some camera phone photos of the parking and trash issues. I probably need to figure out exactly which condos they're in.
I'll also politely ask other neighbors if they're annoyed as well and to also submit letters/calls to the HOA.
I emailed our landlord and told her what was going on and that I was going to contact the HOA.
posted by k8t at 10:58 AM on June 7, 2009
I think a letter would be more appreciated than calling the cops right away. It's unfair to persecute young people with a highly aggressive move (calling the police) right from the start, especially as they may not be aware of the problem it is creating for you.
The people you yelled at last night could be their friends, and not whose living there. It's important to make sure the occupants know there is a potential problem.
By all means, call the cops once you've warned them- but warn them first.
posted by niccolo at 11:00 AM on June 7, 2009 [5 favorites]
The people you yelled at last night could be their friends, and not whose living there. It's important to make sure the occupants know there is a potential problem.
By all means, call the cops once you've warned them- but warn them first.
posted by niccolo at 11:00 AM on June 7, 2009 [5 favorites]
I think a letter would be more appreciated than calling the cops right away. It's unfair to persecute young people with a highly aggressive move (calling the police) right from the start, especially as they may not be aware of the problem it is creating for you.
I think the fact that they've responded to her complaints with a laugh pretty much means they don't give a fuck what she thinks.
Look, I don't think it's a particularly "cool" move to call the cops, but they're making enough noise in a common area -- at 3:00 AM for fuck's sake -- to wake up her baby.
I was an annoying, loud college kid once, too, and I wouldn't hesitate even one second to call the cops if someone was acting this way.
If they were doing this at 8pm during a barbecue or something? That's fine and totally understandable. But every night at 3am? No way.
If you really want to, just tell them to be quiet after 11, or you'll be calling the cops. But this is totally unnecessary; they're not dumb -- they know there's a certain point in time when making noise that bothers others is a ticketable offense. k8t has already made it 100% clear that they are bothering her and her toddler. They know better. The cops should handle the rest: that's what they're here for.
posted by nitsuj at 11:09 AM on June 7, 2009 [13 favorites]
I think the fact that they've responded to her complaints with a laugh pretty much means they don't give a fuck what she thinks.
Look, I don't think it's a particularly "cool" move to call the cops, but they're making enough noise in a common area -- at 3:00 AM for fuck's sake -- to wake up her baby.
I was an annoying, loud college kid once, too, and I wouldn't hesitate even one second to call the cops if someone was acting this way.
If they were doing this at 8pm during a barbecue or something? That's fine and totally understandable. But every night at 3am? No way.
If you really want to, just tell them to be quiet after 11, or you'll be calling the cops. But this is totally unnecessary; they're not dumb -- they know there's a certain point in time when making noise that bothers others is a ticketable offense. k8t has already made it 100% clear that they are bothering her and her toddler. They know better. The cops should handle the rest: that's what they're here for.
posted by nitsuj at 11:09 AM on June 7, 2009 [13 favorites]
Another vote for calling the police. I disagree with niccolo that they deserve further warning; it sounds like you have directly dealt with them enough that they know (or should know) by now that they are disturbing the neighbors.
In a lot of places, the police operate on a "squeaky wheel gets the grease" system and so calling them consistently will probably lead to more typical enforcement in your area. You may also get a reputation as that crazy lady, but oh well.
posted by rkent at 11:10 AM on June 7, 2009
In a lot of places, the police operate on a "squeaky wheel gets the grease" system and so calling them consistently will probably lead to more typical enforcement in your area. You may also get a reputation as that crazy lady, but oh well.
posted by rkent at 11:10 AM on June 7, 2009
As someone who was recently college-aged... yeah, call the cops. If they're the type to laugh at you when you when you tell them they woke up your baby, then putting a note by the mailbox is going to be laughed off, too. It might even encourage them to mess with you on purpose. I saw this time and time again at my friends' apartment complexes. If anyone who isn't a cop tries to ask them to stop doing anything, it's just hilaaarious.
But if a cop comes along, they shut right up. I hope for your sake the HOA does something about the other problems, because that's another area where they'll only listen to an authority figure.
posted by Nattie at 11:12 AM on June 7, 2009
But if a cop comes along, they shut right up. I hope for your sake the HOA does something about the other problems, because that's another area where they'll only listen to an authority figure.
posted by Nattie at 11:12 AM on June 7, 2009
Trash - condo management.
speeding on condo roads - condo management.
parking problems - condo management.
You may be able to get a list of all the owners. Renting condos to large groups of young people will end up reducing the value of their units, as the place gets trashed. Alert the owners to the problems. Sometimes 1 person will catalyze a group into action they've been wanting to take.
There are numerous threads on Ask.Me about noise. There may be some steps you can take to reduce the noise, reduce the effect of the noise, and stop them from being so noisy. I do recommend going out and saying, "Guys, it's late for us, and the baby's up now. We'd really appreciate it if you'd work on keeping the noise down." It won't be very effective, but it's worth trying.
posted by theora55 at 11:19 AM on June 7, 2009
speeding on condo roads - condo management.
parking problems - condo management.
You may be able to get a list of all the owners. Renting condos to large groups of young people will end up reducing the value of their units, as the place gets trashed. Alert the owners to the problems. Sometimes 1 person will catalyze a group into action they've been wanting to take.
There are numerous threads on Ask.Me about noise. There may be some steps you can take to reduce the noise, reduce the effect of the noise, and stop them from being so noisy. I do recommend going out and saying, "Guys, it's late for us, and the baby's up now. We'd really appreciate it if you'd work on keeping the noise down." It won't be very effective, but it's worth trying.
posted by theora55 at 11:19 AM on June 7, 2009
Call the cops for a short term solution. Document & present your findings as to the living conditions to the HOA/Condo Association/Code Enforcement for a long term solution.
There's no rational reason you should be subjected to these living conditions & you're a living example of why there are laws/codes against these types of living arrangements.
posted by torquemaniac at 11:25 AM on June 7, 2009
There's no rational reason you should be subjected to these living conditions & you're a living example of why there are laws/codes against these types of living arrangements.
posted by torquemaniac at 11:25 AM on June 7, 2009
I agree with the others saying there are two kinds of college students. Some would really appreciate it if you talked to them personally and let them know what your situation was, others could care less and you're better off calling the cops. But above all, make sure you're dealing with the tenants, not their dumb friends.
I noticed you're in SB. I'm assuming you're a bit away from the Isla Vista zone, otherwise there's probably much less you can do.
Also, as someone considering doing grad school at UCSB and liking my fun and my sleep, I appreciate knowing what I might be facing in such a shared living community.
posted by JauntyFedora at 11:26 AM on June 7, 2009
I noticed you're in SB. I'm assuming you're a bit away from the Isla Vista zone, otherwise there's probably much less you can do.
Also, as someone considering doing grad school at UCSB and liking my fun and my sleep, I appreciate knowing what I might be facing in such a shared living community.
posted by JauntyFedora at 11:26 AM on June 7, 2009
Just jumping in to suggest a white-noise machine for the baby's room. (And maybe yours, too!) It has helped my babies sleep even in a quiet neighborhood. Even a standing fan, pointed away from the crib, can help; some of them are nice and loud.
Another suggestion: if the good-neighbor stuff matters more to you than the fact that they're stuffing their apartments with roommates, could you work a little deal with them -- you find out the city ordinances about limitations on the number of unrelated people sharing a bedroom, you collect their craigslist advertisements, and you tell them you're going to call the oversight board for housing violations if they do not stop the noise, stop taking all the guest-parking spots, and start using the trash more responsibly? They are saving a bundle of cash living this way; it might be worth it to them to act differently.
posted by palliser at 11:28 AM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Another suggestion: if the good-neighbor stuff matters more to you than the fact that they're stuffing their apartments with roommates, could you work a little deal with them -- you find out the city ordinances about limitations on the number of unrelated people sharing a bedroom, you collect their craigslist advertisements, and you tell them you're going to call the oversight board for housing violations if they do not stop the noise, stop taking all the guest-parking spots, and start using the trash more responsibly? They are saving a bundle of cash living this way; it might be worth it to them to act differently.
posted by palliser at 11:28 AM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: JauntyFedora, we live on the Mesa, which is close-ish to the City College. Grad students DO NOT LIVE IN IV. People with kids should not get within a mile of IV. The City College students traditionally lived next to the City College, but with the huge increase in enrollment, they've spread into the adult/family areas like ours.
posted by k8t at 11:30 AM on June 7, 2009
posted by k8t at 11:30 AM on June 7, 2009
Palliser has it: If they want to get away with an illegal living arrangement, they should be a bit more circumspect than they're being.
There are two kinds of loud college students: My apartment was full of nerds and punk kids who would get out of control but would shut up if the neighbors knocked. Most of the other apartments in my building were full of bro dudes scratching their balls who would blast 50 Cent until four in the morning and vandalize the bikes outside because "bikes are for fags".
If it's the latter group you're dealing with, call the cops.
posted by dunkadunc at 11:33 AM on June 7, 2009 [3 favorites]
There are two kinds of loud college students: My apartment was full of nerds and punk kids who would get out of control but would shut up if the neighbors knocked. Most of the other apartments in my building were full of bro dudes scratching their balls who would blast 50 Cent until four in the morning and vandalize the bikes outside because "bikes are for fags".
If it's the latter group you're dealing with, call the cops.
posted by dunkadunc at 11:33 AM on June 7, 2009 [3 favorites]
Niccolo, I don't think it's persecution to expect tenants to abide by the rules of their community. Speaking as someone living in an area with a lot of students, if they're being loud at unreasonable hours (varies, but for me after 12am on weeknights), you call the cops.
Now, as you're living in a complex and share a landlord/board, you may be able to exert extra leverage. If I were in their shoes, I'd appreciate the gesture of having an unhappy neighbor send me a friendly but sternly worded letter before repeatedly calling the police (but be clear that you WILL call the police if their behavior continues), and any annoyance at the neighbor would be mitigated with a tray of homemade cookies.
They probably don't realize they're being so dickish, so if you can remind them they're not living in a dorm anymore without being too confrontational, there's always hope. If that fails, screw 'em.
posted by HumuloneRanger at 11:33 AM on June 7, 2009
Now, as you're living in a complex and share a landlord/board, you may be able to exert extra leverage. If I were in their shoes, I'd appreciate the gesture of having an unhappy neighbor send me a friendly but sternly worded letter before repeatedly calling the police (but be clear that you WILL call the police if their behavior continues), and any annoyance at the neighbor would be mitigated with a tray of homemade cookies.
They probably don't realize they're being so dickish, so if you can remind them they're not living in a dorm anymore without being too confrontational, there's always hope. If that fails, screw 'em.
posted by HumuloneRanger at 11:33 AM on June 7, 2009
Some cities have rental codes that prevent unlicensed rentals or have occupancy limits. Check with your city's zoning department or code enforcement as well as with the fire marshall.
Check your HOA's bylaws for language w/r/t residency and rental restrictions. If there aren't any, get to know your neighbors on the HOA's board and lobby for maximum non-family occupancy limits. A HOA can do some relatively simple things with wide-ranging effects.
Also, the HOA should consider getting larger dumpsters at a minimum.
posted by theclaw at 11:44 AM on June 7, 2009
Check your HOA's bylaws for language w/r/t residency and rental restrictions. If there aren't any, get to know your neighbors on the HOA's board and lobby for maximum non-family occupancy limits. A HOA can do some relatively simple things with wide-ranging effects.
Also, the HOA should consider getting larger dumpsters at a minimum.
posted by theclaw at 11:44 AM on June 7, 2009
While the people making noise may not be the tenants themselves, they are still responsible for the presence of their noisy friends.
I've heard this excuse before. It doesn't work with me.
I live in a building with a mixed adult-college student population. Things that have happened: drunken college students tried banging on apartment doors saying things like "Open up, this is the police" and then charging into the apartment when the tenant opened the door, throwing trash at one apartment door which resulted in the occupant spending about 20 minutes screaming at the kids about how he was going to have his friends come and rob them, 4-6 hours of girls screaming about once a month, beer poured in the elevator, trash thrown in hallways, occasional vomit, dogs pissing inside the building, doors to the building broken so they don't have to go downstairs to let their friends in.
I believe in a process of escalation: start out by talking to them and reminding them that you too were once a college kid but now you have a baby, and a job, and that you have to get up early. If this doesn't work, go to the HOA/Condo board/owners of the units. At the same time, find out the local noise ordinances and call the police when they are being disobeyed. Are these kids driving off after drinking? Mention this as well. In my experience, when the police come about a noise complaint all they do is ask you to turn down the volume. If someone wasn't aware that they were loud, having the police show up isn't that big a deal unless they're doing something else illegal and don't have time to hide it or air out the room.
However, the problem is that once you've identified yourself as the person complaining, they may easily decide to take revenge on you. This could be extremely unpleasant.
posted by sciencegeek at 11:46 AM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
I've heard this excuse before. It doesn't work with me.
I live in a building with a mixed adult-college student population. Things that have happened: drunken college students tried banging on apartment doors saying things like "Open up, this is the police" and then charging into the apartment when the tenant opened the door, throwing trash at one apartment door which resulted in the occupant spending about 20 minutes screaming at the kids about how he was going to have his friends come and rob them, 4-6 hours of girls screaming about once a month, beer poured in the elevator, trash thrown in hallways, occasional vomit, dogs pissing inside the building, doors to the building broken so they don't have to go downstairs to let their friends in.
I believe in a process of escalation: start out by talking to them and reminding them that you too were once a college kid but now you have a baby, and a job, and that you have to get up early. If this doesn't work, go to the HOA/Condo board/owners of the units. At the same time, find out the local noise ordinances and call the police when they are being disobeyed. Are these kids driving off after drinking? Mention this as well. In my experience, when the police come about a noise complaint all they do is ask you to turn down the volume. If someone wasn't aware that they were loud, having the police show up isn't that big a deal unless they're doing something else illegal and don't have time to hide it or air out the room.
However, the problem is that once you've identified yourself as the person complaining, they may easily decide to take revenge on you. This could be extremely unpleasant.
posted by sciencegeek at 11:46 AM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Perhaps they don't realize they've moved into a condo complex where their neighbors are going to be automatically hostile to anyone under the age of 25. Finding a decent place to rent in an area like Santa Barbara is tough, and there is no such thing as an "adult/family area" because it's illegal to discriminate like that with most housing. Unfortunately, Isla Vista can't hold every student in the area, and it's bad enough that landlords there don't maintain properties, which keeps rent down and ghettoizes the area. Can you blame students for trying to escape that?
I lived in a condo complex like yours. We were quiet college students, never had parties, parked legally on the street. We still had our neighbors upstairs call the cops on us for having our TV on after 8pm, when their two young kids would run and stomp above us at 7am the next day.
Your neighbors don't seem like they're going to cooperate, but how would you really know since you haven't made serious attempts to talk to them in person? Sure, definitely report them to the city if there is a code violation like too many people living in the condo, but you're making assumptions off Craigslist ads. Go talk to them.
posted by slow graffiti at 11:47 AM on June 7, 2009 [6 favorites]
I lived in a condo complex like yours. We were quiet college students, never had parties, parked legally on the street. We still had our neighbors upstairs call the cops on us for having our TV on after 8pm, when their two young kids would run and stomp above us at 7am the next day.
Your neighbors don't seem like they're going to cooperate, but how would you really know since you haven't made serious attempts to talk to them in person? Sure, definitely report them to the city if there is a code violation like too many people living in the condo, but you're making assumptions off Craigslist ads. Go talk to them.
posted by slow graffiti at 11:47 AM on June 7, 2009 [6 favorites]
This is probably not going to change on a timescale that matters to you. Say the HOA began eviction proceedings immediately, it'd probably take 3-6 months. I'd suggest you work on making peace with it, and/or meeting them and asking them to ask their friends to keep it down. Over the long run (9 months to 2 years) you could definitely change the policy so that this doesn't happen in the future.
Look at it from their point of view. They're looking for affordable housing. They're probably completely unaware that people inside houses get bothered by driving in roadways and driveways that are outside of the houses. They would probably be surprised to hear it bothers people that they park in empty parking spaces.
I would find out where they live and go knock on their door at about 4:30 or 5:30 pm (after they've woken up but before they've been drinking too much). Explain what is causing problems for you, but be nice because the goal is to get them on your side. Getting the apartment dwellers to want to be responsible, good neighbors and then to pressure their friends is going to be the fastest route to the changes you want to see here. The tone you want to go for is probably something like "I understand where you're coming from, and as an ally, let me tell you that we all expect more out of our neighbors here, and here is what we expect.* We're sure you'll step up and be responsible."
* Those being: that there isn't much outdoor noise after about 11 pm, and that it's rare for a car to park or drive away between the hours of midnight and 5 am or so. These short-term requests that come from you can't be things like "a bunch of you need to move out." You could offer suggestions about how to achieve those outdoor-quiet-time goals, (ask your friends to be quiet when they come over, maybe ask them to park on the street outside the complex and walk in if they arrive after 1am) but mostly, leave it up to them.
I'm not surprised drunk people laughed off a rhetorical questions yelled out the window at them about how bad they are. I do think you'll get further with all of this if you find some understanding for their perspective.
posted by salvia at 11:50 AM on June 7, 2009 [3 favorites]
Look at it from their point of view. They're looking for affordable housing. They're probably completely unaware that people inside houses get bothered by driving in roadways and driveways that are outside of the houses. They would probably be surprised to hear it bothers people that they park in empty parking spaces.
I would find out where they live and go knock on their door at about 4:30 or 5:30 pm (after they've woken up but before they've been drinking too much). Explain what is causing problems for you, but be nice because the goal is to get them on your side. Getting the apartment dwellers to want to be responsible, good neighbors and then to pressure their friends is going to be the fastest route to the changes you want to see here. The tone you want to go for is probably something like "I understand where you're coming from, and as an ally, let me tell you that we all expect more out of our neighbors here, and here is what we expect.* We're sure you'll step up and be responsible."
* Those being: that there isn't much outdoor noise after about 11 pm, and that it's rare for a car to park or drive away between the hours of midnight and 5 am or so. These short-term requests that come from you can't be things like "a bunch of you need to move out." You could offer suggestions about how to achieve those outdoor-quiet-time goals, (ask your friends to be quiet when they come over, maybe ask them to park on the street outside the complex and walk in if they arrive after 1am) but mostly, leave it up to them.
I'm not surprised drunk people laughed off a rhetorical questions yelled out the window at them about how bad they are. I do think you'll get further with all of this if you find some understanding for their perspective.
posted by salvia at 11:50 AM on June 7, 2009 [3 favorites]
Is there a condo association? Do they meet regularly? If so, you should (and the owner of your unit should) report these problems, both by letter and by attending the meetings. Many condos also contract with a management company to run certain services, such as trash collection. If there is any kind of management like this, you can notify them as well.
I hate speed humps/bumbs with a passion, but they sometimes are the only solution. Getting the condo association to install one or two strategically located in the shared driveways would cut down on the speeding.
Re the parking, our condos require resident stickers in order to park there. All those without stickers get towed by a towing company contracted by the condo association. The management company issues the stickers, and only condo owners, or renters whose names are on a lease, get the stickers. There is a system in place for guest passes for guests. All others get towed. There are a few undesignated spaces for deliveries etc.. Those have parking meters.
Also, parking in the fire lanes, really? Does the fire department know that?
posted by gudrun at 11:56 AM on June 7, 2009
I hate speed humps/bumbs with a passion, but they sometimes are the only solution. Getting the condo association to install one or two strategically located in the shared driveways would cut down on the speeding.
Re the parking, our condos require resident stickers in order to park there. All those without stickers get towed by a towing company contracted by the condo association. The management company issues the stickers, and only condo owners, or renters whose names are on a lease, get the stickers. There is a system in place for guest passes for guests. All others get towed. There are a few undesignated spaces for deliveries etc.. Those have parking meters.
Also, parking in the fire lanes, really? Does the fire department know that?
posted by gudrun at 11:56 AM on June 7, 2009
I'll nth all the condo association and police suggestions, however I would like to call you out on a couple little things:
pit bulls do NOT qualify as "it could be worse". Seriously? You're a dog owner, maybe you should do a little research before you make fear-mongering comments such as this.
I also don't see how these two comments of yours jibe:
"I probably need to figure out exactly which condos they're in. "
vs. your OP
"We all share trash/recycling. They do not flatten their cardboard. The trash is now full soon after pick up and we've had increased raccoons and skunks. The recycling people refused to empty the overflowing bins for 2 weeks and someone wrote a note about flattening cardboard. It is them not flattening, due to the address on packages and that it didn't happen before they moved in."
Are you actually sure it's them? Because it really doesn't sound like it.
That said, I wish you luck in dealing with these kids (hell, I'm not that much older than them). They are obviously compromising your comfort in your own home, and being very inconsiderate in their response to your attempts at fixing the problem.
posted by sunshinesky at 12:10 PM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
pit bulls do NOT qualify as "it could be worse". Seriously? You're a dog owner, maybe you should do a little research before you make fear-mongering comments such as this.
I also don't see how these two comments of yours jibe:
"I probably need to figure out exactly which condos they're in. "
vs. your OP
"We all share trash/recycling. They do not flatten their cardboard. The trash is now full soon after pick up and we've had increased raccoons and skunks. The recycling people refused to empty the overflowing bins for 2 weeks and someone wrote a note about flattening cardboard. It is them not flattening, due to the address on packages and that it didn't happen before they moved in."
Are you actually sure it's them? Because it really doesn't sound like it.
That said, I wish you luck in dealing with these kids (hell, I'm not that much older than them). They are obviously compromising your comfort in your own home, and being very inconsiderate in their response to your attempts at fixing the problem.
posted by sunshinesky at 12:10 PM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Sunshinesky, sorry about the pitbull comment. It was more in reference to a recent AskMe about selling a house with pitbulls next door scaring off buyers.
I know the building that most of them are living in, but I'm not sure if one particular group lives in 101 or 102. The people who did the trash, I know that they are specifically in 303. The number of Zappos.com boxes in particular from 303 has been immense. (And I know that with a baby, we have a ton more cardboard than we used to, but we are very careful to break it down, cut it down, not put any in if it is close to full.) There are 4 different groups in the various buildings of the complex. No one else has moved into the building that uses that particular trash bin.
posted by k8t at 12:19 PM on June 7, 2009
I know the building that most of them are living in, but I'm not sure if one particular group lives in 101 or 102. The people who did the trash, I know that they are specifically in 303. The number of Zappos.com boxes in particular from 303 has been immense. (And I know that with a baby, we have a ton more cardboard than we used to, but we are very careful to break it down, cut it down, not put any in if it is close to full.) There are 4 different groups in the various buildings of the complex. No one else has moved into the building that uses that particular trash bin.
posted by k8t at 12:19 PM on June 7, 2009
Your neighbors don't seem like they're going to cooperate, but how would you really know since you haven't made serious attempts to talk to them in person?
Agreed. You need to make serious attempts to talk to them before calling the cops. Who knows, maybe just the thought of the cops coming over will scare them straight (they could be doing worse stuff in there than just being loud). But once you've made a reasonable effort to talk to the people who live in the apartment, call those cops!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:28 PM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Agreed. You need to make serious attempts to talk to them before calling the cops. Who knows, maybe just the thought of the cops coming over will scare them straight (they could be doing worse stuff in there than just being loud). But once you've made a reasonable effort to talk to the people who live in the apartment, call those cops!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:28 PM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm sure your HOA limits the number of cars you can park if you are a resident (and not a guest). If that number is being exceeded, have them towed.
posted by jeffamaphone at 12:29 PM on June 7, 2009
posted by jeffamaphone at 12:29 PM on June 7, 2009
I agree with many other posters that leaving a note (in their mailboxes, hanging up, wherever) is only going to make the situation worse. They will see your note(s) and just laugh and not do anything about it... sorry to sound all "kids these days," but seriously, if they are being as disrespectful as you say, the only thing you can do is call the cops repeatedly until the college kids all say to each other, "shit, maybe we should move to a different neighborhood?"
I really feel for you on this one... stand up for your right to peace and freakin' quiet, don't back down, and you'll win out in the end.
posted by bacall423 at 12:53 PM on June 7, 2009
I really feel for you on this one... stand up for your right to peace and freakin' quiet, don't back down, and you'll win out in the end.
posted by bacall423 at 12:53 PM on June 7, 2009
theclaw writes "Check your HOA's bylaws for language w/r/t residency and rental restrictions."
This is very good advice before you start making waves with the condo board/HOA. It's entirely possible that your rental could be illegal and, even worse in an insult to injury way, the kids rental legal. (Often units that are sold before condo rules outlaw renting are permitted to be rented while units sold after that time aren't.)
posted by Mitheral at 1:02 PM on June 7, 2009
This is very good advice before you start making waves with the condo board/HOA. It's entirely possible that your rental could be illegal and, even worse in an insult to injury way, the kids rental legal. (Often units that are sold before condo rules outlaw renting are permitted to be rented while units sold after that time aren't.)
posted by Mitheral at 1:02 PM on June 7, 2009
I think the fact that they've responded to her complaints with a laugh pretty much means they don't give a fuck what she thinks.
She hasn't complained, though. She made one jokey comment out the window.
You want your neighbors to be considerate. That's fair. You shouldn't have to get dressed and go downstairs every time they're making noise (which is what my neighbors expect--sheesh!), but going and talking to them at least once would be the considerate thing for you to do. They might really be that clueless, unfortunately. And it's totally reasonable to go talk to them during the day, if you don't want to get yourself up and dressed at night. When you talk to them, be apologetic, but firm. "Sorry, but I have a baby. Sorry, but it's not reasonable for me to come ask you to keep it down every time you're loud. Sorry, but if it keeps on happening, I'm going to be forced to call the cops."
I'm a little confused, though, as to why you can't at least try to close the window. Not that it's a perfect solution, but if you don't want the baby to wake up, it only seems logical that you would do that.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 1:04 PM on June 7, 2009
She hasn't complained, though. She made one jokey comment out the window.
You want your neighbors to be considerate. That's fair. You shouldn't have to get dressed and go downstairs every time they're making noise (which is what my neighbors expect--sheesh!), but going and talking to them at least once would be the considerate thing for you to do. They might really be that clueless, unfortunately. And it's totally reasonable to go talk to them during the day, if you don't want to get yourself up and dressed at night. When you talk to them, be apologetic, but firm. "Sorry, but I have a baby. Sorry, but it's not reasonable for me to come ask you to keep it down every time you're loud. Sorry, but if it keeps on happening, I'm going to be forced to call the cops."
I'm a little confused, though, as to why you can't at least try to close the window. Not that it's a perfect solution, but if you don't want the baby to wake up, it only seems logical that you would do that.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 1:04 PM on June 7, 2009
It isn't your job to teach other people appropriate behavior in a neighborhood, nor do you particularly have any authority to tell other people how to act. The management should deal with this, be that the HOA or whoever is renting the units involved. Discussion might be nice, but I suspect this is too much of a difference of perspective to resolve.
If management isn't going to deal with it, move. The management doesn't care, so there are going to be more undesirable tenants, this is just a taste.
posted by samsm at 1:07 PM on June 7, 2009 [2 favorites]
If management isn't going to deal with it, move. The management doesn't care, so there are going to be more undesirable tenants, this is just a taste.
posted by samsm at 1:07 PM on June 7, 2009 [2 favorites]
You're a renter, right? Move. Problem solved.
posted by Geckwoistmeinauto at 1:24 PM on June 7, 2009
posted by Geckwoistmeinauto at 1:24 PM on June 7, 2009
Response by poster: PhoBWanKenobi: We live in California. It is hot. There is no AC. The adults sleep way better with fresh air flow.
Geckwoistmeinauto/Samsm: Did you read the question? There are many reasons why I can't move: dog, baby, 2 years left.
posted by k8t at 1:55 PM on June 7, 2009
Geckwoistmeinauto/Samsm: Did you read the question? There are many reasons why I can't move: dog, baby, 2 years left.
posted by k8t at 1:55 PM on June 7, 2009
I don't think talking to these people face to face will accomplish jack, except for making it clear who is the one doing the calling of the cops when they don't change their behavior. And that leaves the door open for retaliation. I've tried the talking route with obnoxious neighbors before, and then someone else called the cops on their party and they blamed me for it since I was vocal to them about their behavior and "somebody" then let the air out of my tires. I pretty much had to move to stop the issues. Here's what I would do, k8t:
1) Your letter idea is probably going to be ignored, but paper and toner is cheap, so print up a bunch addressed to nobody in particular, using strong language (aggressive, not swearing). Spell out in the letter the unacceptable behaviors, and then specifically mention if this continues the cops will be called, cars might get towed (check the condo rules on parking first to see if this is a possibility) and the city might have to send bylaw inspectors (check bylaws as well). Include the pertinent bylaw sections and condo rules on parking, waste, etc. Then make sure EVERYONE gets a copy in the complex, all taped to doors or similar late at night/early morning. Ensure you get one as well and it's obvious you got one so nobody knows who distributed it. Put a few up in common areas like mailbox rooms, front entrance lobby, etc. It might actually work.
2) Once the above fails, call the cops, call the city, etc.
posted by barc0001 at 1:58 PM on June 7, 2009
1) Your letter idea is probably going to be ignored, but paper and toner is cheap, so print up a bunch addressed to nobody in particular, using strong language (aggressive, not swearing). Spell out in the letter the unacceptable behaviors, and then specifically mention if this continues the cops will be called, cars might get towed (check the condo rules on parking first to see if this is a possibility) and the city might have to send bylaw inspectors (check bylaws as well). Include the pertinent bylaw sections and condo rules on parking, waste, etc. Then make sure EVERYONE gets a copy in the complex, all taped to doors or similar late at night/early morning. Ensure you get one as well and it's obvious you got one so nobody knows who distributed it. Put a few up in common areas like mailbox rooms, front entrance lobby, etc. It might actually work.
2) Once the above fails, call the cops, call the city, etc.
posted by barc0001 at 1:58 PM on June 7, 2009
I live in a condo complex w/ an HOA, but I own, not rent. You're not a home-owner, so I'm wondering exactly how much sway you'd have with the home-owners' association. Have you ever gone to them before with problems?
Who do you rent from, exactly? Could he/she/they go to the HOA on your behalf? Not sure how much good this would do since they're not living in the condo, but worth a thought if they're actually owners, and thus have a stake in the HOA.
Who pays the HOA dues? You, or the owner of your unit? If you pay nothing to the HOA and are not actually a home-owner, I'm just thinking they may not be as apt to help you. In that case, I may do what others have suggested and turn to the cops, the city, etc.
posted by pecanpies at 2:21 PM on June 7, 2009
Who do you rent from, exactly? Could he/she/they go to the HOA on your behalf? Not sure how much good this would do since they're not living in the condo, but worth a thought if they're actually owners, and thus have a stake in the HOA.
Who pays the HOA dues? You, or the owner of your unit? If you pay nothing to the HOA and are not actually a home-owner, I'm just thinking they may not be as apt to help you. In that case, I may do what others have suggested and turn to the cops, the city, etc.
posted by pecanpies at 2:21 PM on June 7, 2009
Came here to say what barc0001 just said, actually -- had the exact same thing happen. I then got 3 a.m. drunken door poundings and both door locks jammed with marine grade caulk.
Staying anonymous will reduce the likelihood of retaliation. I'd be especially concerned about this because the cast of characters is larger -- it only takes one to reason that you'll never figure out which of the zillions of people living/partying in the units actually did it.
posted by gnomeloaf at 2:24 PM on June 7, 2009
Staying anonymous will reduce the likelihood of retaliation. I'd be especially concerned about this because the cast of characters is larger -- it only takes one to reason that you'll never figure out which of the zillions of people living/partying in the units actually did it.
posted by gnomeloaf at 2:24 PM on June 7, 2009
I think a letter would be more appreciated than calling the cops right away. It's unfair to persecute young people with a highly aggressive move (calling the police) right from the start, especially as they may not be aware of the problem it is creating for you.
Sorry, I can't disagree more with this.
Calling the cops isn't a "highly agressive move" and it certainly isn't "persecution". It's politely asking civil servants to do their job, and the cops will knock on their door and politely tell them they need to keep it down. The cops won't be "agressive" unless you're calling them for the 10th time or they catch the students doing something more criminal.
If you ask me you're dealing with people who have no respect for the needs of others, so the last thing you want to do is knock on their door and give them a specific target for their disrespect. Let the cops (or condo authorities) deal with it. It's their job.
posted by mmoncur at 2:29 PM on June 7, 2009 [4 favorites]
Sorry, I can't disagree more with this.
Calling the cops isn't a "highly agressive move" and it certainly isn't "persecution". It's politely asking civil servants to do their job, and the cops will knock on their door and politely tell them they need to keep it down. The cops won't be "agressive" unless you're calling them for the 10th time or they catch the students doing something more criminal.
If you ask me you're dealing with people who have no respect for the needs of others, so the last thing you want to do is knock on their door and give them a specific target for their disrespect. Let the cops (or condo authorities) deal with it. It's their job.
posted by mmoncur at 2:29 PM on June 7, 2009 [4 favorites]
She made one jokey comment out the window.
At 3 a.m., her comment wasn't jokey --- it was a complaint --- and no one would interpret that as anything but a complaint.
Here's the problem with having so many college students living in the apartment. There are so many of them that any sense of accountability among them is gone. You complain to them, and they look at each other and laugh --- "can you believe that crazy lady yelling out her window? Heh heh. Hey, do we have any more beer inside?"
In addition to your efforts to get the HOA to take action, go straight to the police next time it happens. Emphasize that you have a baby who is being awakened. It's one thing to just be a complaining adult, but I suspect you'll get a better response by emphasizing the sleeping baby angle.
What assholes.
posted by jayder at 2:29 PM on June 7, 2009
At 3 a.m., her comment wasn't jokey --- it was a complaint --- and no one would interpret that as anything but a complaint.
Here's the problem with having so many college students living in the apartment. There are so many of them that any sense of accountability among them is gone. You complain to them, and they look at each other and laugh --- "can you believe that crazy lady yelling out her window? Heh heh. Hey, do we have any more beer inside?"
In addition to your efforts to get the HOA to take action, go straight to the police next time it happens. Emphasize that you have a baby who is being awakened. It's one thing to just be a complaining adult, but I suspect you'll get a better response by emphasizing the sleeping baby angle.
What assholes.
posted by jayder at 2:29 PM on June 7, 2009
I'm struck by how everyone is convinced that a conversation won't work but somehow authority figures (whether they be cops, management, inspectors or signs) will engender a more respectful attitude. In the long run they might allow enforcement to punish people who are not respectful, but that will take a while.
I have friends who live in a neighborhood that is a mix of young families and college rental properties. They have learned a few routines over the years:
1> The folks who want peace and quiet talk to each other and coordinate activities. The students get the message that this is a community that cares. They also take turns calling the cops if it comes to that.
2> Every year the students turn over, but sometime early after move-in they pick up the infant and go visit the students. They have a quick discussion about 'this is part of why we need peace and quiet. If you get too loud we will call the cops". Again, see #1 above. There is no retribution because it is half the houses in the neighborhood giving this message.
3> They try to stay constructive. "We don't mind if you party, but do it inside with your windows closed. Be specific about what is bothersome and how they could avoid it.
4> Then go to enforcement. Do indeed call the cops when necessary.
That can help with the noise issue. The total students per house issue, and what that means for parking, is harder because you are trying to make people lose their living accommodations (and others' rent share to rise). It definitely is worth looking into the legal limits, both from a zoning and HOA standpoint for this. Complaints should go not only to the students, but he condo owners as well. Back when I was a student a persistent neighbor forced use to reduce the number living on one of our rentals. It was frustrating, but when the rules where there in black and white we saw the writing on the wall...
posted by meinvt at 2:31 PM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
I have friends who live in a neighborhood that is a mix of young families and college rental properties. They have learned a few routines over the years:
1> The folks who want peace and quiet talk to each other and coordinate activities. The students get the message that this is a community that cares. They also take turns calling the cops if it comes to that.
2> Every year the students turn over, but sometime early after move-in they pick up the infant and go visit the students. They have a quick discussion about 'this is part of why we need peace and quiet. If you get too loud we will call the cops". Again, see #1 above. There is no retribution because it is half the houses in the neighborhood giving this message.
3> They try to stay constructive. "We don't mind if you party, but do it inside with your windows closed. Be specific about what is bothersome and how they could avoid it.
4> Then go to enforcement. Do indeed call the cops when necessary.
That can help with the noise issue. The total students per house issue, and what that means for parking, is harder because you are trying to make people lose their living accommodations (and others' rent share to rise). It definitely is worth looking into the legal limits, both from a zoning and HOA standpoint for this. Complaints should go not only to the students, but he condo owners as well. Back when I was a student a persistent neighbor forced use to reduce the number living on one of our rentals. It was frustrating, but when the rules where there in black and white we saw the writing on the wall...
posted by meinvt at 2:31 PM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Former inconsiderate college student here:-) When I was living in Santa Cruz (another city infamous for housing squirmishes b/t students and Everyone Else), I rented a room in a condo from an elderly couple who lived out-of-town.
I used to order a lot of stuff online, and would carelessly toss the boxes into the recycler, with little regard to the amount of space left over, or to the city's ordinance for compacting bulky items. To be honest, it never entered my mind, because my landlord never gave me a list of guidelines on how to dispose of recyclables properly, or what the HOA/city regulations were.
To make a long story short, I received a letter two weeks after moving out, from my landlord, stating that another resident in the condo had reported me to the HOA for improperly disposing bulky cardboard boxes.
I was fined $50. I paid the fine, considered it a lesson learned, and wondered just how much I had irritated the other residents, as I had disposed of countless other boxes the same way throughout the entire academic year I was living there. But I was so clueless, or had my mind on countless other matters, that it never would've occurred to me. Seeing the intimidating verbiage of the HOA letter, plus the fine, really brought the issue home.
posted by invisible ink at 2:39 PM on June 7, 2009
I used to order a lot of stuff online, and would carelessly toss the boxes into the recycler, with little regard to the amount of space left over, or to the city's ordinance for compacting bulky items. To be honest, it never entered my mind, because my landlord never gave me a list of guidelines on how to dispose of recyclables properly, or what the HOA/city regulations were.
To make a long story short, I received a letter two weeks after moving out, from my landlord, stating that another resident in the condo had reported me to the HOA for improperly disposing bulky cardboard boxes.
I was fined $50. I paid the fine, considered it a lesson learned, and wondered just how much I had irritated the other residents, as I had disposed of countless other boxes the same way throughout the entire academic year I was living there. But I was so clueless, or had my mind on countless other matters, that it never would've occurred to me. Seeing the intimidating verbiage of the HOA letter, plus the fine, really brought the issue home.
posted by invisible ink at 2:39 PM on June 7, 2009
At 3 a.m., her comment wasn't jokey --- it was a complaint --- and no one would interpret that as anything but a complaint.
College students who want to continue behaving the way they've been behaving might. I'm not saying it's reasonable, but with people like that, my experience is that you need to be as direct and explicit as possible.
Anecdote: my loud neighbors are friends with various college-aged folk singers. I'd be cool with that--I even own a banjo!--if they didn't start making noise around 2 a.m. One morning I was woken up to the sound of "Dancing with Myself" played on the accordion and banjo on the front porch right below my window. I went downstairs and asked them to go inside. Apparently, it wasn't my neighbors, but their friends. My neighbors weren't even home! "We'll go inside as soon as they get home. We'll be quiet in a few minutes" the accordion girl said. "That's not going to work," I told her. "I need to be up in the morning. You can't be playing 80s covers on the front porch at 2 a.m." They agreed. I went upstairs. A few minutes later, I heard the music start again--from the hood of their car parked two doors down. The point is that these people don't want to change their behavior, and unless you're really really crystal clear, they're going to be looking for ways to still get away with it, to laugh it off, to act like there's no problem.
k8t, if all else fails, you might consider buying a window AC unit for the bedroom. I'm in Florida, so I sympathize--the window unit creates just enough white noise to drown out my neighbors 90% of the time (they get the cops called on them the other 10%).
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 2:45 PM on June 7, 2009
College students who want to continue behaving the way they've been behaving might. I'm not saying it's reasonable, but with people like that, my experience is that you need to be as direct and explicit as possible.
Anecdote: my loud neighbors are friends with various college-aged folk singers. I'd be cool with that--I even own a banjo!--if they didn't start making noise around 2 a.m. One morning I was woken up to the sound of "Dancing with Myself" played on the accordion and banjo on the front porch right below my window. I went downstairs and asked them to go inside. Apparently, it wasn't my neighbors, but their friends. My neighbors weren't even home! "We'll go inside as soon as they get home. We'll be quiet in a few minutes" the accordion girl said. "That's not going to work," I told her. "I need to be up in the morning. You can't be playing 80s covers on the front porch at 2 a.m." They agreed. I went upstairs. A few minutes later, I heard the music start again--from the hood of their car parked two doors down. The point is that these people don't want to change their behavior, and unless you're really really crystal clear, they're going to be looking for ways to still get away with it, to laugh it off, to act like there's no problem.
k8t, if all else fails, you might consider buying a window AC unit for the bedroom. I'm in Florida, so I sympathize--the window unit creates just enough white noise to drown out my neighbors 90% of the time (they get the cops called on them the other 10%).
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 2:45 PM on June 7, 2009
I'm struck by how everyone is convinced that a conversation won't work but somehow authority figures (whether they be cops, management, inspectors or signs) will engender a more respectful attitude.
I came here to say this. The commenters in this thread are all so far from being college students that they clearly can't even ape the mindset any longer.
You might get cooperation with the passive-aggressive "polite" use of "civil servants" (LOL) in this thread, but you won't get respect or compassion.
posted by fake at 2:57 PM on June 7, 2009
I came here to say this. The commenters in this thread are all so far from being college students that they clearly can't even ape the mindset any longer.
You might get cooperation with the passive-aggressive "polite" use of "civil servants" (LOL) in this thread, but you won't get respect or compassion.
posted by fake at 2:57 PM on June 7, 2009
I read, I figured that the dog and baby would make an apartment hunt more difficult, not impossible.
But why should that happen? You and your more mellow neighbors are good tenants! Does the management really want to trade that for clown car full of frat boys who are probably breaking several lease-invalidating technicalities?
This happened recently in my apartment building. Young undergrad moved in, nice enough, but loud music, rowdy friends (I was probably equally annoying at 18). People complained, management figured it out, kid is now somewhere more music-at-3-am friendly.
Before the resolution, I considered talking it out with the loud kid but I knew that if he wasn't receptive enough, my lost nights of sleep would creep up on me and I'd get mad and the dialog would go counterproductive. Is that you? Or are you going to be able to stay cool and be sympathetic with the people who've ruined your home life while you explain your grievances and come to a compromise? Would you snap if nothing changes after you come to an "understanding"? Maybe I'm weak, but I really really don't want to sign up for that.
posted by samsm at 3:02 PM on June 7, 2009
But why should that happen? You and your more mellow neighbors are good tenants! Does the management really want to trade that for clown car full of frat boys who are probably breaking several lease-invalidating technicalities?
This happened recently in my apartment building. Young undergrad moved in, nice enough, but loud music, rowdy friends (I was probably equally annoying at 18). People complained, management figured it out, kid is now somewhere more music-at-3-am friendly.
Before the resolution, I considered talking it out with the loud kid but I knew that if he wasn't receptive enough, my lost nights of sleep would creep up on me and I'd get mad and the dialog would go counterproductive. Is that you? Or are you going to be able to stay cool and be sympathetic with the people who've ruined your home life while you explain your grievances and come to a compromise? Would you snap if nothing changes after you come to an "understanding"? Maybe I'm weak, but I really really don't want to sign up for that.
posted by samsm at 3:02 PM on June 7, 2009
At 3 a.m., her comment wasn't jokey --- it was a complaint --- and no one would interpret that as anything but a complaint.
She doesn't even know if she talked to the tenants or some drunk friends of theirs.
I would go with meinvt's approach.
posted by small_ruminant at 3:54 PM on June 7, 2009
She doesn't even know if she talked to the tenants or some drunk friends of theirs.
I would go with meinvt's approach.
posted by small_ruminant at 3:54 PM on June 7, 2009
When I was in school in Santa Barbara, the noise ordinance was 12am. I do recall seeing tickets for $109 written up in the day, or about $27 per roommate in a 4 person place.
posted by liquoredonlife at 4:22 PM on June 7, 2009
posted by liquoredonlife at 4:22 PM on June 7, 2009
It isn't your job to teach other people appropriate behavior in a neighborhood, nor do you particularly have any authority to tell other people how to act.
It might not be her job individually, but it's collectively the job of those who don't want the place becoming Party Central. I end up sounding like my dad when he describes how every parent on his street had tacit authority to clip him round the lugs, but the general rule applies: if you let the arseholes set the rules, good neighbours will leave, and more arseholes will move in.
Vaguely passive-aggressive stuff (robe/baby) isn't ideal; a quiet word in the afternoon is better; the approach that meinvt describes seems best of all, which involves recruiting other neighbours, but begins inclusively on the premise that the students are part of the neighbourhood. Don't be scared to call the cops for noise. That said, if you're past the tipping point in which the complex is now regarded as a de facto dorm -- e.g. the HOA reflects the interests of landlords over resident-owners -- you may be stuck.
posted by holgate at 4:47 PM on June 7, 2009
It might not be her job individually, but it's collectively the job of those who don't want the place becoming Party Central. I end up sounding like my dad when he describes how every parent on his street had tacit authority to clip him round the lugs, but the general rule applies: if you let the arseholes set the rules, good neighbours will leave, and more arseholes will move in.
Vaguely passive-aggressive stuff (robe/baby) isn't ideal; a quiet word in the afternoon is better; the approach that meinvt describes seems best of all, which involves recruiting other neighbours, but begins inclusively on the premise that the students are part of the neighbourhood. Don't be scared to call the cops for noise. That said, if you're past the tipping point in which the complex is now regarded as a de facto dorm -- e.g. the HOA reflects the interests of landlords over resident-owners -- you may be stuck.
posted by holgate at 4:47 PM on June 7, 2009
Don't just tell your landlord that you're contacting the HOA -- have the landlord (as the owner) contact the HOA make a stink about it.
I always yell out the window for the kids next door to shut up on principle because when i DO call the cops, they often ask if I asked the kids to be quiet. Personally, if I were you, I would be very tempted to pull a BIG FUCKING SCENE in bathrobe with baby at 3 am. But your condo neighborhood is a different scene than my rowhouse block, and thus this tactic may be not be as effective. (We are a shoutier people here on the East Coast.)
I agree with not characterizing them as students in your complaints. It's irrelevant and undermines your argument with the profiling. Plus, hey, there's possibly very nice college kids who share a house between an acceptable number of people, flatten their cardboard, and stay quiet after 11.
Please be quiet at night outside, treat the trash/recycling as a shared resource, and stop parking in the guest spots." ???
The problem with notes is that you write them when you're angry, and they make no sense to the intended party. They might get the first item, the second is patently not addressing the issue, and the third needs to be taken up by the management (because you have absolutely no way of proving that the guest parking spots are not being used by guests.)
posted by desuetude at 4:48 PM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
I always yell out the window for the kids next door to shut up on principle because when i DO call the cops, they often ask if I asked the kids to be quiet. Personally, if I were you, I would be very tempted to pull a BIG FUCKING SCENE in bathrobe with baby at 3 am. But your condo neighborhood is a different scene than my rowhouse block, and thus this tactic may be not be as effective. (We are a shoutier people here on the East Coast.)
I agree with not characterizing them as students in your complaints. It's irrelevant and undermines your argument with the profiling. Plus, hey, there's possibly very nice college kids who share a house between an acceptable number of people, flatten their cardboard, and stay quiet after 11.
Please be quiet at night outside, treat the trash/recycling as a shared resource, and stop parking in the guest spots." ???
The problem with notes is that you write them when you're angry, and they make no sense to the intended party. They might get the first item, the second is patently not addressing the issue, and the third needs to be taken up by the management (because you have absolutely no way of proving that the guest parking spots are not being used by guests.)
posted by desuetude at 4:48 PM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
As a former loud college student, a friendly knock on the door and "hey, we're trying to sleep" would have done a whole lot more than the noise complaints we got called on us.
This is bullshit. Why did someone need to tell you they were trying to sleep in the first place? Don't try to make it sound like you weren't being an inconsiderate asshole in the first place, and get all pouty about the method someone used to get your attention.
It's not my, nor the OPs, job to go out of our way to protect your feelings and use whatever method you would prefer to shut you the fuck up at 3am. Ideally, it would only take one time, then you would start thinking about it on your own before I had to get involved, now wouldn't it? That's giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't know you were disturbing everyone else. Otherwise, you don't deserve a goddamn thing.
I recommend the OP call the cops AND the landlord AND the HOA every time. It's not going to stop after one time, because college kids do not get it. They will believe that you are the unreasonable person who needs "absolute silence" all the time and blow you off as crazy and make fun of you. It will not occur to them that THEY are the problem. This will not change until they are much older, and you cannot accelerate the process. As such, you need to make it easier for them to be quiet than for them to be loud. Period. That is the only way.
posted by ctmf at 4:56 PM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
This is bullshit. Why did someone need to tell you they were trying to sleep in the first place? Don't try to make it sound like you weren't being an inconsiderate asshole in the first place, and get all pouty about the method someone used to get your attention.
It's not my, nor the OPs, job to go out of our way to protect your feelings and use whatever method you would prefer to shut you the fuck up at 3am. Ideally, it would only take one time, then you would start thinking about it on your own before I had to get involved, now wouldn't it? That's giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't know you were disturbing everyone else. Otherwise, you don't deserve a goddamn thing.
I recommend the OP call the cops AND the landlord AND the HOA every time. It's not going to stop after one time, because college kids do not get it. They will believe that you are the unreasonable person who needs "absolute silence" all the time and blow you off as crazy and make fun of you. It will not occur to them that THEY are the problem. This will not change until they are much older, and you cannot accelerate the process. As such, you need to make it easier for them to be quiet than for them to be loud. Period. That is the only way.
posted by ctmf at 4:56 PM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
The students' landlord is the one who needs to deal with them. And the fines and warnings need to be brought to the landlord, who is in the end responsible for all of this. All those fire code issues and regulation issues are the responsibility of the students' landlord, who may not know what's going on.
Gather all your evidence and talk to management to see what you can do to have a warning presented to the landlord about the numbers of people living in the unit, the number of cars belonging to tenants, etc. If you know any of your other neighbours (any who are owners?) get them to go with you. I think those craigslist ads are pretty damning too, bring them with you.
From the sounds of it the landlord will need to evict at least some of these people. Perhaps they are subletting without the landlord's knowledge? Someone needs to start the conversation about this, and it's your management company's job.
I was a student once, but my parents brought me up not to be an asshole.
Yeah, and call the cops when they get out of hand. Don't wait til 3am. I wonder if you can call them or visit the local cop shop in advance and explain your situation, including concerns that you will be retaliated against if you are identified. I think, given the numbers, that that's a fair concern. Maybe they will give you some tips, and create the beginnings of a history on these people.
I couldn't care less how old they are. There's no good reason to behave like this.
posted by Hildegarde at 5:07 PM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Gather all your evidence and talk to management to see what you can do to have a warning presented to the landlord about the numbers of people living in the unit, the number of cars belonging to tenants, etc. If you know any of your other neighbours (any who are owners?) get them to go with you. I think those craigslist ads are pretty damning too, bring them with you.
From the sounds of it the landlord will need to evict at least some of these people. Perhaps they are subletting without the landlord's knowledge? Someone needs to start the conversation about this, and it's your management company's job.
I was a student once, but my parents brought me up not to be an asshole.
Yeah, and call the cops when they get out of hand. Don't wait til 3am. I wonder if you can call them or visit the local cop shop in advance and explain your situation, including concerns that you will be retaliated against if you are identified. I think, given the numbers, that that's a fair concern. Maybe they will give you some tips, and create the beginnings of a history on these people.
I couldn't care less how old they are. There's no good reason to behave like this.
posted by Hildegarde at 5:07 PM on June 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
If the noise was happening at 10pm, I could see the rational first step being to go next door and ask them to quiet down. They're students, they kind of don't internalize the fact that a midnight or 1am bedtime doesn't work for people who have to be out of the house by 7am. However, every single person realizes that 3am is "quiet time," and at that point, calling the police is fine. It should not be expected that someone should have to face down someone who is being so aggressively disruptive at that hour.
posted by explosion at 5:56 PM on June 7, 2009
posted by explosion at 5:56 PM on June 7, 2009
Hildegarde has the right approach: The owner of the individual condo unit(s) where these people live should be on the receiving end of complaints about 1) capacity, 2) trash, 3) parking, and 4) noise.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 6:56 PM on June 7, 2009
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 6:56 PM on June 7, 2009
>: This is bullshit. Why did someone need to tell you they were trying to sleep in the first place? Don't try to make it sound like you weren't being an inconsiderate asshole in the first place, and get all pouty about the method someone used to get your attention.
Our neighbors were a special case- they would be blasting club rap and getting into fights until 4AM one night and then call the cops on maybe six kids dancing to punk rock 10PM the next. They didn't like how we looked and called us "fags" for no apparent reason on more than one occasion. Had they really had an issue with the noise they could have come next door and knocked, but they were looking for excuses.
Now you know.
College kids get a bad rap, which is partly deserved. The OP's neighbors are probably a mixed bag, but she should at least go talk to them in a friendly yet firm manner. For every nut-scratching douchebag there's going to be someone who's willing to listen- but as mentioned above this situation might not be able to be quickly remedied, due to aforementioned douchebags.
Good luck.
posted by dunkadunc at 8:04 PM on June 7, 2009
Our neighbors were a special case- they would be blasting club rap and getting into fights until 4AM one night and then call the cops on maybe six kids dancing to punk rock 10PM the next. They didn't like how we looked and called us "fags" for no apparent reason on more than one occasion. Had they really had an issue with the noise they could have come next door and knocked, but they were looking for excuses.
Now you know.
College kids get a bad rap, which is partly deserved. The OP's neighbors are probably a mixed bag, but she should at least go talk to them in a friendly yet firm manner. For every nut-scratching douchebag there's going to be someone who's willing to listen- but as mentioned above this situation might not be able to be quickly remedied, due to aforementioned douchebags.
Good luck.
posted by dunkadunc at 8:04 PM on June 7, 2009
Even when I was 19-20, I still had no qualms about screaming like a lunatic in a nightie at my wasted dickhead neighbours having a 4am party in the hallway. I am a bear when woken up.
First off, as Hildegarde and other said above, approach the landlord. Now. Again, as above, call the cops every time there's a party. And yeah, stay anonymous.
If it's any consolation, they won't last long in college. Good luck.
posted by futureisunwritten at 8:06 PM on June 7, 2009
First off, as Hildegarde and other said above, approach the landlord. Now. Again, as above, call the cops every time there's a party. And yeah, stay anonymous.
If it's any consolation, they won't last long in college. Good luck.
posted by futureisunwritten at 8:06 PM on June 7, 2009
I'm struck by how everyone is convinced that a conversation won't work but somehow authority figures (whether they be cops, management, inspectors or signs) will engender a more respectful attitude.
Here's my personal experience: dealing with people who are noisy when drunk and also frequently get drunk is a giant pain in the ass. I've experienced this with multiple different neighbors while I was a college student and as a regular apartment dweller.
I've done the friendly conversations in the middle of the afternoon: "hey neighbor, uh, you know, the walls are pretty thin, and, uh, I could hear a) you and your boyfriend having sex b) the indoor bowling at 1 am c) you demonstrating at 2am just how loud your speaker get before sounding distorted, etc.
My experience is as follows: when sober, they are extremely apologetic. So sorry, didn't realize, won't happen again. But the next time they get drunk, they are back at it, and more often than not in addition to the noise I got to hear my neighbors mocking their uptight bitchy neighbor (me). I remember getting up once at 4am (seriously) to find the guy across the hall had his stereo blasting and his door wide open. I walked in to his apartment and just lost my shit. I turned the stereo off myself and started screaming at him about how fucking disrespectful he was and how fucking sick of it I was and goddamn it's four o'clock in the morning and I have fucking had enough and shut the fuck up RIGHT NOW. There was applause in the hallway from the upstairs neighbors. A few weeks later he moved out, found a new tenant to take his place on the lease. She told me that he said "the neighbors were really cool, never complained about noise or anything." I honestly think he was so drunk he didn't remember it at all the next morning.
So lots of people have already said it here before I got here, but in my experience a conversation is a waste of time. They might be perfectly considerate when they are sober, but the problem is when they aren't sober.
posted by ambrosia at 10:00 PM on June 7, 2009 [3 favorites]
Here's my personal experience: dealing with people who are noisy when drunk and also frequently get drunk is a giant pain in the ass. I've experienced this with multiple different neighbors while I was a college student and as a regular apartment dweller.
I've done the friendly conversations in the middle of the afternoon: "hey neighbor, uh, you know, the walls are pretty thin, and, uh, I could hear a) you and your boyfriend having sex b) the indoor bowling at 1 am c) you demonstrating at 2am just how loud your speaker get before sounding distorted, etc.
My experience is as follows: when sober, they are extremely apologetic. So sorry, didn't realize, won't happen again. But the next time they get drunk, they are back at it, and more often than not in addition to the noise I got to hear my neighbors mocking their uptight bitchy neighbor (me). I remember getting up once at 4am (seriously) to find the guy across the hall had his stereo blasting and his door wide open. I walked in to his apartment and just lost my shit. I turned the stereo off myself and started screaming at him about how fucking disrespectful he was and how fucking sick of it I was and goddamn it's four o'clock in the morning and I have fucking had enough and shut the fuck up RIGHT NOW. There was applause in the hallway from the upstairs neighbors. A few weeks later he moved out, found a new tenant to take his place on the lease. She told me that he said "the neighbors were really cool, never complained about noise or anything." I honestly think he was so drunk he didn't remember it at all the next morning.
So lots of people have already said it here before I got here, but in my experience a conversation is a waste of time. They might be perfectly considerate when they are sober, but the problem is when they aren't sober.
posted by ambrosia at 10:00 PM on June 7, 2009 [3 favorites]
From personal experience, the HOA isn't going to care what a renter says.
Get the actual owners involved and things happen fast.
posted by whoda at 2:12 AM on June 8, 2009
Get the actual owners involved and things happen fast.
posted by whoda at 2:12 AM on June 8, 2009
There were a few quiet comments upthread that suggested what may be the beginning of a solution: towing. If, as has been suggested, the college population has migrated farther and farther from the campuses, cars have become increasingly important to this migrant student community; in fact, it is entirely possible that the ones with cars are the ones most likely to populate the more distant housing. If so, their cars may be an achilles heel for lease violators and hooligans.
The beauty of enlisting towing companies in your fight for civility is that you're leveraging one of the strongest motivators available: profit. I'm not sure about California law, but in many places towing companies are empowered to tow at will from properties where they have a contract, and many times are empowered to keep fire lanes clear. The fact that each "hook-up" leads to a fat paycheck ensures aggressive enforcement. And no one can retaliate against you if it was the "heartless" towing company that did the dirty work.
Nothing says "Obey the rules" better than disappearing cars. If cars are the enabling factor in turning your neighborhood into a ghetto of rude slugs, get rid of them. The slugs will follow.
posted by dinger at 6:45 AM on June 8, 2009 [5 favorites]
The beauty of enlisting towing companies in your fight for civility is that you're leveraging one of the strongest motivators available: profit. I'm not sure about California law, but in many places towing companies are empowered to tow at will from properties where they have a contract, and many times are empowered to keep fire lanes clear. The fact that each "hook-up" leads to a fat paycheck ensures aggressive enforcement. And no one can retaliate against you if it was the "heartless" towing company that did the dirty work.
Nothing says "Obey the rules" better than disappearing cars. If cars are the enabling factor in turning your neighborhood into a ghetto of rude slugs, get rid of them. The slugs will follow.
posted by dinger at 6:45 AM on June 8, 2009 [5 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Letters in mailboxes will go over as well as screaming out the window at them.
Also, call the HOA. The next morning, every single time it happens. Tell them you are calling the cops every single time. Tell them this is unacceptable.
posted by nitsuj at 10:30 AM on June 7, 2009 [11 favorites]