Pomona Students
December 1, 2004 10:39 PM Subscribe
I've just applied to Pomona, early decision. I'd love to go there, but I'm kind of clueless about what kind of student you have to be to get in (outstanding academically, just interesting, rich). Were you accepted to Pomona or another prestigious university, and if so, what kind of student were you?
Response by poster: I'm not sure how my school fares, I'd guess it's mediocre. My grades are pretty good (above 4.0 GPA, 3.5 unweighted), and I did well on the SATs. I'm the captain of the swim team and I've been in quite a few club things, and have held board positions in a few. I got a mention in The Power of Many for work I did with wikis in my high school, and I wrote most of my essays about that.
I applied to UCSC too, but I don't live in California (although I did until I was 12), and supposedly only 6-7% of their students are from out-of-state. I also applied to Stanford, Redlands and NAU (I live in Phoenix).
(Reading what I just wrote, I realize I may have asked a stupid question and that I'm probably a good candidate--just a little paranoid about the process.)
Thanks for the advice.
posted by supercommon at 11:02 PM on December 1, 2004
I applied to UCSC too, but I don't live in California (although I did until I was 12), and supposedly only 6-7% of their students are from out-of-state. I also applied to Stanford, Redlands and NAU (I live in Phoenix).
(Reading what I just wrote, I realize I may have asked a stupid question and that I'm probably a good candidate--just a little paranoid about the process.)
Thanks for the advice.
posted by supercommon at 11:02 PM on December 1, 2004
I attend Williams College, which, though many have never heard of it, should be at least comparable to Pomona. Though admissions standards always tend to go up every year, it probably hasn't changed that much from when I applied 3 years ago...
As a private college, I don't think being an in-state resident favors admissions at Pomona (compared to at a UC), it might even help.
Applying for early decision usually helps out a lot more too. EDs tend to have a higher admit rate since they are almost guaranteed to go to the school if accepted, and the acceptance/attendance ratio (yield) is one of those figures that goes into college ranking games.
Also, since it is a liberal arts college, I think they are more likely to spend more time factoring in things like all your extracurriculars (which look good!) and recommendations and such.
You look like a very good candidate and I think you're right in thinking you're just a little paranoid, but then again, IANAAdmissions officer. What made you decide to choose Pomona, or a liberal arts college, by the way?
posted by numble at 12:21 AM on December 2, 2004
As a private college, I don't think being an in-state resident favors admissions at Pomona (compared to at a UC), it might even help.
Applying for early decision usually helps out a lot more too. EDs tend to have a higher admit rate since they are almost guaranteed to go to the school if accepted, and the acceptance/attendance ratio (yield) is one of those figures that goes into college ranking games.
Also, since it is a liberal arts college, I think they are more likely to spend more time factoring in things like all your extracurriculars (which look good!) and recommendations and such.
You look like a very good candidate and I think you're right in thinking you're just a little paranoid, but then again, IANAAdmissions officer. What made you decide to choose Pomona, or a liberal arts college, by the way?
posted by numble at 12:21 AM on December 2, 2004
Swarthmore grad here. Served on admissions and still interview applicants. Didn't apply to Pomona because it was too close to home, but it's a great place.
It's kind of hard to answer the question of what type of student you have to be to get into a place like Pomona. I can tell you that being rich is a minus if anything. Being out of state is actually a small plus. But really, they are looking for the all-around great person -- someone bright, passionate, and hardworking, but also with personality. Someone who wants to make a difference in the world.
Having good numbers certainly never hurts, but the standardized test scores are diminishing in value. If anything, the big number everybody likes is the top 10% class rank. I'm guessing a 3.5 unweighted may hurt you, but it's not a deal-breaker.
Extracurrics theoretically serve toward showing that you are passionate and personable as above. Points for being team captain, class prez, yearbook/newspaper editor, alleged signs of "leadership" potential.
And applying early decision will also help.
I'd say all-in-all, you sound like a pretty good candidate. Probably not a lock, but you have a decent shot. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask here or by email.
posted by drpynchon at 12:53 AM on December 2, 2004
It's kind of hard to answer the question of what type of student you have to be to get into a place like Pomona. I can tell you that being rich is a minus if anything. Being out of state is actually a small plus. But really, they are looking for the all-around great person -- someone bright, passionate, and hardworking, but also with personality. Someone who wants to make a difference in the world.
Having good numbers certainly never hurts, but the standardized test scores are diminishing in value. If anything, the big number everybody likes is the top 10% class rank. I'm guessing a 3.5 unweighted may hurt you, but it's not a deal-breaker.
Extracurrics theoretically serve toward showing that you are passionate and personable as above. Points for being team captain, class prez, yearbook/newspaper editor, alleged signs of "leadership" potential.
And applying early decision will also help.
I'd say all-in-all, you sound like a pretty good candidate. Probably not a lock, but you have a decent shot. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask here or by email.
posted by drpynchon at 12:53 AM on December 2, 2004
don't know about the states, but to get into cambridge (is that equivalent?) i just had to be the top of most of my classes. didn't do anything special otherwise, as far as i remember.
posted by andrew cooke at 2:39 AM on December 2, 2004
posted by andrew cooke at 2:39 AM on December 2, 2004
Good luck supercommon. I went to Pomona in the mid '90s and my brother applied last year, but was not accepted. We both applied early decision. I was the kind of student who knew I wanted to stay in-state and felt insecure about not having enough of and/or the right kinds of extracurricular activities.
We had mostly similar classes, teachers, and activities (academic decathlon, civics competitions) in high school. He did well on the SAT, 100 points higher than me and I had a strong GPA (top 5%) a few decimal points higher than his.
I don't have any special insight like drpynchon into the admissions process, but based on what you've said you sound like a good applicant, perhaps stronger in certain respects than either of us were, with a decent shot. Email if you think that more specifics would help you.
posted by PY at 3:31 AM on December 2, 2004
We had mostly similar classes, teachers, and activities (academic decathlon, civics competitions) in high school. He did well on the SAT, 100 points higher than me and I had a strong GPA (top 5%) a few decimal points higher than his.
I don't have any special insight like drpynchon into the admissions process, but based on what you've said you sound like a good applicant, perhaps stronger in certain respects than either of us were, with a decent shot. Email if you think that more specifics would help you.
posted by PY at 3:31 AM on December 2, 2004
Response by poster: I'm in the International Baccalaureate Program at my school, kind of like AP on speed. All the smart kids are pooled from the district and dumped here, so I'm right on the edge of that 10% mark.
I don't really know what I want to do yet--probably something with English or journalism, and I'm thinking a little bit about photography. I'll probably go to graduate school, and Pomona would be a good base for getting into one.
My grades are really the only area that might hurt me, but I've never gotten a C, mostly As. I've taken the hardest classes at my school and am taking a full schedule my senior year. Not great, but I think having a lot of extracurriculars will help me here.
I got a 1410 on my SATs--not perfect--but it's in Pomona's range.
I'm also a pretty good writer, and I think my essays were pretty good. (I may post parts from it here, later.)
My dad graduated from Stanford in '69, how much does that help me at a school like Stanford?
posted by supercommon at 5:33 AM on December 2, 2004
I don't really know what I want to do yet--probably something with English or journalism, and I'm thinking a little bit about photography. I'll probably go to graduate school, and Pomona would be a good base for getting into one.
My grades are really the only area that might hurt me, but I've never gotten a C, mostly As. I've taken the hardest classes at my school and am taking a full schedule my senior year. Not great, but I think having a lot of extracurriculars will help me here.
I got a 1410 on my SATs--not perfect--but it's in Pomona's range.
I'm also a pretty good writer, and I think my essays were pretty good. (I may post parts from it here, later.)
My dad graduated from Stanford in '69, how much does that help me at a school like Stanford?
posted by supercommon at 5:33 AM on December 2, 2004
My dad graduated from Stanford in '69, how much does that help me at a school like Stanford?
That really depends...has he donated a lot of money to Stanford? I guess I can't speak for Stanford it self, but my mom graduated from Brown '76 and I still got rejected last year, despite good grades, SAT, activities etc. And I'm pretty sure Stanford is similarly competitive -- when a school is that competitive, I think legacy itself doesn't get you in, it just may help you when being compared to another applicant with similar qualifications.
posted by puffin at 5:52 AM on December 2, 2004
That really depends...has he donated a lot of money to Stanford? I guess I can't speak for Stanford it self, but my mom graduated from Brown '76 and I still got rejected last year, despite good grades, SAT, activities etc. And I'm pretty sure Stanford is similarly competitive -- when a school is that competitive, I think legacy itself doesn't get you in, it just may help you when being compared to another applicant with similar qualifications.
posted by puffin at 5:52 AM on December 2, 2004
I got into two Prestigious Big-Name Colleges (TM) and was waitlisted at a 3rd. I was class president and did a bunch of extracurriculars. My SAT scores were very good because I was always good at psyching out the standardized test-makers, but my high school grades were all over the place--I tended to do very well in subjects that interested me and to just-barely-pass or even nearly fail subjects that didn't. I have a suspicion that my application essays were probably a bigger factor in my getting into college than any factor--I was a pretty good writer for my age (and I now write for a living.)
However, there's a false assumption built into the question "What kind of student do colleges accept?" As I understand it, admissions officers don't just think of themselves as choosing students; they think of themselves as putting together an incoming freshman class.
I read an article some years back where the reporter sat in with the Georgetown U admissions board during their deliberations, and the phrase that has stuck with me ever since is "happy bottom quarter." See, Georgetown (or any other big name university) could fill its entire freshman class with 1000 people who were #1 in their high school class. The problem is, only one of those people could be #1 in their college freshman class and the other 999 would have nervous breakdowns. So, the admissions officers tried to fill the class with a wide variety of people who would complement each other in interesting ways. The "happy bottom quarter" was their expression for the subset of students who would be perfectly content dwelling on the lower end of the grading curve but who would nonetheless add something interesting to the mix. This might include athletes, or musicians, or merry pranksters, or (fortunately for me) good writers, or whatever. Putting together a class is an art, rather than a science, and an admissions officer plays a huge (and often undersung) role in shaping the feel of a campus.
In short, the thing that gets you into college will probably not be the same thing that gets your fellow freshman in. One consequence of this is that, wherever you end up going, you'll learn at least as much from your fellow students as you do in class. It's a cliche, but it's true.
One general rule I can give you is that wealth shouldn't make a difference at any good college. Most of them are "need blind"--IE, the admissions office accepts you without knowing anything about your financial situation, and once you're in, it's the job of the financial aid office to get you the money you need to attend.
The importance of an alumni connection varies from university to university. I think Princeton (for example) will consider alumni connections as a sort of a tie-breaker if they're on the fence about you. MIT, by contrast, prides itself on ignoring your alumni connection entirely in admission decisions (although I think that being a rejected child of a MIT alum gets you an extra-nice letter when you're rejected, or early notification of your rejection, or some other such gesture.)
And now to answer a question you didn't ask... Choosing a college is a big decision--but it's also one of those decisions with no one perfect answer and hundreds of really good answers. When I was a high school senior, some of my classmates went to their first-choice schools and some went to their last-choice schools. But out of 70 classmates, I know of only 2 who were unhappy where they ended up--and those two were able to switch schools at the end of their freshman year. We've all been out of college for 10 years now, and I don't think any of us feel like we messed up our lives by going to the wrong place. Based on your postings here (and on poking around your webpage a little), you're a very smart, very articulate, very goal-oriented person. I hope you get into your first-choice school, but trust me--you're going to do fine in life wherever you go.
posted by yankeefog at 7:22 AM on December 2, 2004
However, there's a false assumption built into the question "What kind of student do colleges accept?" As I understand it, admissions officers don't just think of themselves as choosing students; they think of themselves as putting together an incoming freshman class.
I read an article some years back where the reporter sat in with the Georgetown U admissions board during their deliberations, and the phrase that has stuck with me ever since is "happy bottom quarter." See, Georgetown (or any other big name university) could fill its entire freshman class with 1000 people who were #1 in their high school class. The problem is, only one of those people could be #1 in their college freshman class and the other 999 would have nervous breakdowns. So, the admissions officers tried to fill the class with a wide variety of people who would complement each other in interesting ways. The "happy bottom quarter" was their expression for the subset of students who would be perfectly content dwelling on the lower end of the grading curve but who would nonetheless add something interesting to the mix. This might include athletes, or musicians, or merry pranksters, or (fortunately for me) good writers, or whatever. Putting together a class is an art, rather than a science, and an admissions officer plays a huge (and often undersung) role in shaping the feel of a campus.
In short, the thing that gets you into college will probably not be the same thing that gets your fellow freshman in. One consequence of this is that, wherever you end up going, you'll learn at least as much from your fellow students as you do in class. It's a cliche, but it's true.
One general rule I can give you is that wealth shouldn't make a difference at any good college. Most of them are "need blind"--IE, the admissions office accepts you without knowing anything about your financial situation, and once you're in, it's the job of the financial aid office to get you the money you need to attend.
The importance of an alumni connection varies from university to university. I think Princeton (for example) will consider alumni connections as a sort of a tie-breaker if they're on the fence about you. MIT, by contrast, prides itself on ignoring your alumni connection entirely in admission decisions (although I think that being a rejected child of a MIT alum gets you an extra-nice letter when you're rejected, or early notification of your rejection, or some other such gesture.)
And now to answer a question you didn't ask... Choosing a college is a big decision--but it's also one of those decisions with no one perfect answer and hundreds of really good answers. When I was a high school senior, some of my classmates went to their first-choice schools and some went to their last-choice schools. But out of 70 classmates, I know of only 2 who were unhappy where they ended up--and those two were able to switch schools at the end of their freshman year. We've all been out of college for 10 years now, and I don't think any of us feel like we messed up our lives by going to the wrong place. Based on your postings here (and on poking around your webpage a little), you're a very smart, very articulate, very goal-oriented person. I hope you get into your first-choice school, but trust me--you're going to do fine in life wherever you go.
posted by yankeefog at 7:22 AM on December 2, 2004
I was in top 7% of my high school class, did around 1400 on the SAT's, got a couple well-chosen recommendations, had a fair number of music related curricular and extra-curricular activities, took 4 AP classes my senior year (French, Chem, English, Calculus). Turned down by Ivy Leagues - went to Oberlin College. I think I got in due to the strong academics and the extracurricular stuff. My essay was a carefully crafted, left-wing sub-topic paragraph.
I can't speak highly enough for my college experience. It was intense and for me, a solid liberal arts college was exactly what I needed. It let me focus on one thing deeply (my major) and let me try all kinds of other things as well (religion, physics, anthropology, ethnomusicology, music theory, literature) to see what stuck. I adored the freedom of being able to choose my schedule. I contrast this with my spouse who went through a rigid engineering program and she had no choices in her classes. Some people like that--that would've driven me batshit.
posted by plinth at 7:31 AM on December 2, 2004
I can't speak highly enough for my college experience. It was intense and for me, a solid liberal arts college was exactly what I needed. It let me focus on one thing deeply (my major) and let me try all kinds of other things as well (religion, physics, anthropology, ethnomusicology, music theory, literature) to see what stuck. I adored the freedom of being able to choose my schedule. I contrast this with my spouse who went through a rigid engineering program and she had no choices in her classes. Some people like that--that would've driven me batshit.
posted by plinth at 7:31 AM on December 2, 2004
I graduated from Pomona three years ago. I also applied early, and got in with a 1440 LSAT (which at the time was only in the middle of their range) and a 3.5ish GPA. I didn't have any sports background, but I did have some relatively interesting other hobbies (like flying).
In any event, based on what I observed in my four years there, its gotten harder to get in. (I'm not so sure I would be accepted now.) I keep in touch with a few of my professors, and there seems to be a pretty big consensus that over the last five years, the general attitude of the student body has shifted towards being way more concerned about grades. I think this is due to the fact that the newer students are relatively higher-acheivers. In turn, this is a result of a conscious admissions policy designed to push up (or sustain) Pomona's already-high rank in US News & World Report.
One thing you'll learn quickly about Pomona if you go there is that even though it is an excellent school, everyone there is self-conscious about how unknown it is. I think the admissions committee wishes that it could be as well known as the East Coast liberal arts colleges that it competes with: Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, etc... (It doesn't help that right next to Claremont is a big public university called Cal Poly Pomona, which results in people thinking that's where you go to school if you just say "Pomona"). And, I think they've decided to see if they can improve the school's notoriety by improving it's admission statistics.
Based on your stats, I think you have a good shot at getting in....good luck.
posted by thewittyname at 7:59 AM on December 2, 2004
In any event, based on what I observed in my four years there, its gotten harder to get in. (I'm not so sure I would be accepted now.) I keep in touch with a few of my professors, and there seems to be a pretty big consensus that over the last five years, the general attitude of the student body has shifted towards being way more concerned about grades. I think this is due to the fact that the newer students are relatively higher-acheivers. In turn, this is a result of a conscious admissions policy designed to push up (or sustain) Pomona's already-high rank in US News & World Report.
One thing you'll learn quickly about Pomona if you go there is that even though it is an excellent school, everyone there is self-conscious about how unknown it is. I think the admissions committee wishes that it could be as well known as the East Coast liberal arts colleges that it competes with: Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, etc... (It doesn't help that right next to Claremont is a big public university called Cal Poly Pomona, which results in people thinking that's where you go to school if you just say "Pomona"). And, I think they've decided to see if they can improve the school's notoriety by improving it's admission statistics.
Based on your stats, I think you have a good shot at getting in....good luck.
posted by thewittyname at 7:59 AM on December 2, 2004
You can get into a hoity-toity liberal arts college strictly on your essay if you know what you're doing - though you want the other stuff to be at least decent. (For me: high SAT, okay extracurriculars, and possibly the lowest GPA of any valedictorian in Texas.) Also:
Choosing a college is a big decision--but it's also one of those decisions with no one perfect answer and hundreds of really good answers.
Worth repeating.
Another thing, about the "prestigious university" part: small liberal arts colleges do not have the kind of universal name power other schools do, even state schools - except in certain circles. They do have advantages, however.
posted by furiousthought at 7:59 AM on December 2, 2004
Choosing a college is a big decision--but it's also one of those decisions with no one perfect answer and hundreds of really good answers.
Worth repeating.
Another thing, about the "prestigious university" part: small liberal arts colleges do not have the kind of universal name power other schools do, even state schools - except in certain circles. They do have advantages, however.
posted by furiousthought at 7:59 AM on December 2, 2004
I applied and was accepted to Pomona a few years ago, though I chose to go to another college instead. I didn't really find it that difficult to get in - an over-4 gpa, most difficult courseload possible and some extracurriculars should do it. My essays were pretty standard.
As for it being a small school...well, i like small colleges.
posted by muddgirl at 9:23 AM on December 2, 2004
As for it being a small school...well, i like small colleges.
posted by muddgirl at 9:23 AM on December 2, 2004
Another thing, about the "prestigious university" part: small liberal arts colleges do not have the kind of universal name power other schools do, even state schools - except in certain circles.
True. Your aunt Ester may not have heard of it, but if you're an academic type, the reputation of top liberal arts college's reign supreme. Something like 80% of Swarthmore grads get advanced degrees, I believe more than any other college in the country (except maybe CalTech?). Half of 'em end up with PhD's at the programs of their choosing. But generally speaking, in the world of business, the Ivys still carry more cache.
Of course, the movie Wallstreet was based on the company of a Swarthmore alum, who basically pioneered leverage buy-outs/hostile takeovers.
posted by drpynchon at 2:40 PM on December 2, 2004
True. Your aunt Ester may not have heard of it, but if you're an academic type, the reputation of top liberal arts college's reign supreme. Something like 80% of Swarthmore grads get advanced degrees, I believe more than any other college in the country (except maybe CalTech?). Half of 'em end up with PhD's at the programs of their choosing. But generally speaking, in the world of business, the Ivys still carry more cache.
Of course, the movie Wallstreet was based on the company of a Swarthmore alum, who basically pioneered leverage buy-outs/hostile takeovers.
posted by drpynchon at 2:40 PM on December 2, 2004
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I was a decent student with good grades from a school that the admissions committee never heard of because it was new; therefore, there was no benchmark as to whether the grades were inflated or not (although, to be honest, they were). I did well on the SATs but not great for getting into the engineering school. Ultimately some UC's were swayed by the high school they never heard of positively and other were swayed negatively, as I was accepted by UCLA and Berkeley, got the Regent's at Santa Cruz, and rejected by Irvine and Davis.
It's always nice if you have some interesting activity, or maybe something that just sounds interesting but really isn't. Student government and sports are things that I never really liked and I participated perfunctorily in, but I highlighted my activism in a couple of causes and well-sounding titles that sound more than they really are in my essay.
It's also good if you had something to overcome. Statistically I had to overcome a lot but the challenges I faced were no different than many other people my age. You just have to spin it properly. Remember that at private schools more focus in given on your recommendations and your essay.
As for Pomona College itself, you probably know that the campus is in Claremont, a town that I've never really liked. (It used to be in Pomona a hundred years or so ago but moved.) Try asking some people at the Princeton Review boards if you really want to know. The comments have been extremely vapid in the past but the board is slightly better now that moderation is a bit stricter.
posted by calwatch at 10:52 PM on December 1, 2004