Advertise here: Contact FM.

Are you starting a conversation or ending it?
June 4, 2009 9:17 AM Subscribe

Online dating: How do you interpret a reply that doesn't seem to further the conversation? Is the non-response response a response or a non-response? Let's do some emotional forensics over-analysis.

I've been trying the online dating thing for a bit. The previous relationship to come out of this started with the woman messaging me (I'm a guy), so I'm a bit in the woods on how to interpret responses from messages I initiate.

As a completely fictionalized example, let's say I sent something like this:Hi, I saw you also enjoy Oprah, hiking, and basket-weaving. What are your favorite hikes in the area? I just completed my latest basket-weaving project and was thinking how it's a hobby that doesn't get enough attention. Have you read Oprah's latest book yet?

And got a response like this:I totally agree about the basket-weaving thing. I'm thinking of joining the weaving anti-defamation league.

Oprah is so great. It's too bad her magazine sucks. I hope I can see her on her book tour this summer.
- Jenny

On the one hand, it's an actual reply that doesn't say "no thanks", which is a pretty good start. On the other hand, answering questions without offering additional information or questions of your own feels like an intentional shutting down of the conversation. What would your read on the situation be? Playing rhetorical hard-to-get?

posted by anonymous to human relations (32 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite

My read on the situation would be "on the fence, wants to have an email conversation to see if there's any virtual spark."

"Shutting down the conversation" is easy to do in these situations, because all you need is just not to send mail. Sending mail is continuing the conversation.

So you can continue the conversation, or not, depending on how interested you are.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:19 AM on June 4

You're overthinking it. Maybe it was a quick response - note the humor.

I'd reply back and further the conversation. If she ignored questions again, I'd probably drop it and move on.
posted by canine epigram at 9:20 AM on June 4

She made a joke about the basket weaving thing. Twice. That's good.
posted by uaudio at 9:20 AM on June 4

^^ unless you really did make up the whole conversation, in which case, ha ha.
posted by uaudio at 9:22 AM on June 4

I'd reply back again and see where it goes. The girl could just be a poor conversationalist but she did respond and that's a good sign.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 9:23 AM on June 4

Yeah it means keep emailing.

Some people like to have a good back and forth for a while before setting up real-life plans, get to know each other on a superficial level.
posted by RajahKing at 9:23 AM on June 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

She's a poor conversationalist, but I'm sure it would be ok to continue if you wish.

Don't be surprised if conversations in real life go exactly the same way, though.
posted by Houstonian at 9:27 AM on June 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

As an online dating vet, let me tell you that there is a vast population of people who don't understand the simple way in which a conversation is conducted, meaning the exchanging of ideas and enticing responses in order to carry on the conversation. The longer you do the online thing, the more you'll find that these are the red flags you look for before you waste your time actually making a plan to meet in person. If a someone can't carry on a simple email conversation do you really want to be stuck in a noisy bar carrying a whole conversation by yourself? Good luck. Its a tough world for romance.
posted by Unred at 9:28 AM on June 4 [7 favorites has favorites]

Oops, what Houstonian said.
posted by Unred at 9:28 AM on June 4

Just as a comparison, if I were replying to you, and interested, that's exactly the sort of reply I would have sent. Just riffing off of your comments in a light manner without going any further or spending too much time on it, it being the initial contact. You're thinking there's no indication that she's interested and she may be thinking the same - don't assume that she knows you are just because you took 2 minutes out of your life to send her a friendly email.

Next time, ask ONE question. If she doesn't answer it, move on.
posted by iconomy at 9:37 AM on June 4 [3 favorites has favorites]

Its online dating and a single response. If you have to work this hard at it, keep looking for a new online date.
posted by arniec at 9:38 AM on June 4

I would agree that this email means she could be interested, but that she may not be the world's best conversationalist.

Don't write her off after just one exchange like this, though. Obviously if she never asks any questions, and never throws you any conversational bones, then she's not going to be fun to talk to. But sometimes the excitement of responding to the first email, trying to sound witty without sounding like you tried to sound witty, trying to answer all the questions without sounding like you're responding to a survey, etc. can lead a person to hit "Send" too quickly. She might be so nervous about making herself sound interesting and worthwhile, that she forgot to give you an opening to do the same. At that initial stage of communication, a second email saying "Doh, I forgot to ask you any questions! Here are a few:" would seem weird and overenthusiastic. So maybe she's just hoping you'll ignore her initial conversational awkwardness and keep asking questions (and/or volunteering information about yourself).
posted by vytae at 9:43 AM on June 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

Write back! Talk to her! Make jokes!
posted by Grimble at 9:45 AM on June 4

widdershins: That response means to me:

"Thank you for your interest. I am replying to you because I don't want to be totally rude; however, I have no interest in you because I do not have a single question to ask you in return, nor am I offering any information to continue the conversation."

Agree 100%

Not "Wow, there's not many Oprah loving hikers out there and believe me I've looked. Where did you learn to weave ?"
posted by selton at 10:03 AM on June 4

I would agree that this email means she could be interested, but that she may not be the world's best conversationalist.

I am pretty sure this is it. A lot of people in the world, and I mean A LOT, just do not express themselves well in words. I have dealt with people who don't even sign their name to an email. Having a good conversation via email is a skill many (if not most) people doing online dating lack.

But that doesn't mean she's not interested or that you wouldn't have a good time together in person.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:21 AM on June 4

Yeah, the conversation is still active at this point. That sort of response is along the lines of "hey, you sound like an ok guy," rather than "Wow! I'm definitely interested and attracted!" In online dating, if people aren't interested, they generally don't respond (or stop responding, if you're a couple emails into the conversation).

Good conversations, particularly initial conversations, and super-particularly intial online conversations, tend to follow a "yes and" model, but lots of people don't really recognize that. Or they're good conversationalists in person, but don't yes-and when they write emails. There is a little bit of yes-and riffing to go on in the sample response you provided, just not in easily accessible question form.

So keep going, for now. It's possible she could lose interest and stop responding; it's possible she could keep emailing back with similar responses that don't really ask about you, and you get bored of having to carry the conversation yourself - and if that does happen, there's no way to tell whether it's because she's just not interested or because she's not very good at email conversation, and either way it's not your fault. And it's possible the conversation could really take off. Who knows?
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:23 AM on June 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

On the other hand, since I'm assuming you're a man and she's a woman, you do need to consider the dynamic of online dating:

Any woman who is even slightly attractive is receiving literally hundreds of responses. She may be dashing off a few words to each. If that's the case, you may get a date with her, but don't be surprised if she has five others that week.

I think some girls (probably guys too) get kind of a "kid in a candy store" thing going when they're deluged with suitors. They figure, "why not try them all?"
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:25 AM on June 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

That response means to me:

"Thank you for your interest. I am replying to you because I don't want to be totally rude; however, I have no interest in you because I do not have a single question to ask you in return, nor am I offering any information to continue the conversation."

Disagree 100%.

I'm a guy with a lot of online dating experience. If she wasn't interested she wouldn't reply at all. This situation has happened to me. In my experience there are 1 of 2 explanations: 1) She's trying to continue the convo and to learn more about you, she's just not expert at it; 2) She was at work/busy but wanted to at least get a response in there to let you know she's interested but is too busy to do it properly at the given moment.

Giving some benefit of the doubt to me is critical to online dating and to relationships in general. I've dated several girls who were normal conversationalists in person but who just felt that email/text was for quick notes, not for elaborate relationship building.

In my experience, any response at all is an indicator of interest. The ones that aren't interested don't respond.
posted by spicynuts at 10:37 AM on June 4 [7 favorites has favorites]

Let's go through this sorta line by line (I know it's figurative so consider my responses figurative as well):

Hi, I saw you also enjoy Oprah, hiking, and basket-weaving.

You don't really care about these things. Not because they are Oprah, hiking and basket-weaving but because they are what she is interested in. You are your own man with your own interests. Trying to convince her how much you two have in common won't work. It will look like you're trying to suck up to her. . .never a good idea.

What are your favorite hikes in the area?

You don't care. YOU have some great ideas of your own. And you don't have to run them by her first to get approval (I'm assuming you were trying to find some kind of "common ground" with the hiking question resulting in "Hey! I've been there too! What a great hike!" or if you haven't been there, "That sounds great! I'd like to go there sometime." Do not go down that path.) In the very least you should have a handful of great "hikes" (in quotes since we're talking figuratively) in your own mind. If you get to the point where you two want to meet for a "hike" you should say, "I'm hiking up to Bear Lake with a couple of friends this Saturday. You should come along." Yes. That is the way to do it. You don't ask her for permission to date her. You are going to do the hike with or without her. Her presence is not absolutely necessary for your fun. But you have a little work to do before you get there.

I just completed my latest basket-weaving project and was thinking how it's a hobby that doesn't get enough attention.

Translation: We have so much in common! Not good. Sounds like you're trying too hard. You're not relaxed. You're not confident. Tease her. "Hiking, huh? I'll bet you're a gronola." (Not sure where you are but "granola" is Colorado-speak for "modern hippie" or "nature girl/boy"). To get away with teasing her you MUST be relaxed and confident. Ask yourself, "Who would tease such a hottie?" (I'm assuming you've seen her pic and want to move forward) Answer: Only somebody supremely confident in his own abilities and comfortable in his own skin--THAT is the attitude you're shooting for! Tease her on-line. If she can't take being teased she's probably not that much fun (look at her response so far). If she "gets it" she may liven up a bit. If you blow it, "I hear granolas have a real hairy b__h!" (and you might blow it if this is unfamiliar territory) then brush it off and sally forth. Be brave! It's fun, liberating, and downright educational!

Have you read Oprah's latest book yet?

By now, it should be clear you don't care about this.

Diagnosis: She's bored. She knows how hard you're trying and doesn't like it. She thinks you should relax and be yourself more rather than fishing around for things in common you can latch onto. She is struggling to keep the conversation going and would rather just end it but she doesn't want to come across like a b*tch so she throws out some lines that aren't particularly interesting. Red flag warning!

Prognosis: Hopefully, this is early on in your steamy on-line affair. If so, you may have a chance. If you don't drop the, "Do you like this? Do you like that?" line of questioning you will surely lose her interest entirely if not already. So here's what you need to do.

Tease her. If she is really hot, tease her about her looks (the hotter they are the more receptive they are to teasing about looks). If she has super posture playfully mock her super straight back and proper shoulders. Tease her. Play with her. Have fun. Relax. Be confident. It all fits together.

If you do it right she'll "wake up" and start showing some interest. She might even tease you back. If this happens do NOT crumble. If she teases you back and accuses you of being a granola, the wrong thing to say is, "I am NOT a granola!" That would be whining. Whining never works. It sounds too. . .whiny. She's testing you. Trying to turn the tables on you. This means she's showing interest--a GOOD thing! If/When this happens you simply tease her back harder! And take it from there.

You might tease her first then suggest the "hiking" date or leap-frog over the teasing and skip to the hike. Either way you are being bold, relaxed, and confident--good things. But if you skip teasing it may be too hard of a break from your old self and may come across strange. Only you can make that call.

And if you blow it, forget about it and move on.
posted by Lord Fancy Pants at 10:48 AM on June 4

Just chiming in to disagree %100 with Lord Fancy Pants. His (I'm assuming) reply reeks of PUA techniques that rub the wrong way.

Your message is good, and her reply is lacking, but any reply is a positive signal in the online world. It's possible, as suggested above, that she's writing tons of replies, or that she was busy/distracted when she wrote that one.

I'd call this 'some interest', and depending on how much interest you're getting from others you may or may take the time to try to re-start the conversation. If you get a second reply that doesn't push the conversation along, I'd write her off.
posted by Four Flavors at 11:08 AM on June 4 [10 favorites has favorites]

She repsonded. That means she's still interested. You're overthinking it.

(see what spicynuts said above)
posted by emd3737 at 11:09 AM on June 4

I would interpret it as "I am not disinterested; let's continue talking"

As a veteran of online personals, I can say that crafting interesting, personalized responses takes up a ridiculous amount of time, so the fact that she didn't go all out may not mean anything. Many times I wrote a quick, friendly reply because I had several other quick, friendly replies to finish up and I didn't want to spend all night working on email.

I also find that Q&A is not my favorite way to get to know someone. I like to just "talk about stuff" and see what comes up. Look back at your fictional query. What information about you is in there? Are you helping her decide to continue a conversation with you or are you giving her a kind of boring mini-questionnaire? If you're going to ask questions, try for more of a "wouldn't you agree?" approach instead of yes/no. Again, she's probably dealing with a ton of responses to her profile; the fact that she responded at all is an invitation to you to try to keep the conversation going.

In the "this is totally not part of your question but I'm telling you anyway" department, I'd suggest crafting slightly different queries, such as:

Hi, X. I see that you're a fellow hiker and basket-weaver. I just hiked Mt. Metafilter last weekend. I know a lot of people complain about all the snakes and gopher holes, but I always come across some really beautiful flowers when I hike there. I haven't hiked MetaChat hill, though. Where do you like to go? Know any cool places with lots of flowers (and no snakes)?

It's nice to meet another basket-weaver. It really is a hobby that doesn't get enough attention. I just finished a project last weekend; I'll probably give it to my sister. What do you do with your finished projects? Keep them? Sell them? Make bigger baskets to put the smaller baskets in?

The long and short of it is that if she gives a quick response then she's swamped, unsure, or a combination of both. That means it's up to you to step up and try to meet her more than halfway. Give her more to work with, or just relax and chat about nothing so she can see if you're friendly, dull, funny, or whatever.
posted by stefanie at 11:11 AM on June 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

Sometimes a response that doesn't keep the ball rolling means the person isn't interested. But not necessarily. She might have just been trying to send something out quickly. Maybe she's new to online dating and hasn't thought through the implications of things as closely as many people in this thread have.

The very fact that you've gotten so many detailed responses with wildly different interpretations just shows that we can't read her mind with any certainty.

So, why not give it another shot? Write back again and follow up about that book tour. Or ask some random new question. If she keeps giving boring replies, you could give up eventually. Or ... you could even send a message saying -- explicitly, briefly, nonchalantly:

"Well, I'm getting the sense you're not that interested in the conversation, so I won't bother you anymore. Good luck with your search."

That way, the burden's on her to correct you if you misread the situation.
posted by Jaltcoh at 11:45 AM on June 4

Lord Fancy Pants? back in my online dating days I HATED people trying to do the flirty thing from the get go. That pick-up crap was as apparent and unappealing as combovers and bad cologne.

So, hell no. Don't pretend to be anything you're not. An honest second response is great. If she follows up, great, if not, move along. Follow other excellent advice above.
posted by freya_lamb at 2:44 PM on June 4 [4 favorites has favorites]

Ugh. Lord Fancy Pants has been reading Mystery Method. I disagree with the whole neg approach (as it's called; basically, putting the woman down via 'teasing' to get her to flirt with you).

Here's the problem with negging a woman you don't know: a single woman online does indeed get tons of email; therefore, the slightest garbage will immediately get you tossed out of the pile. In my own online dating experience, I had to find a way to sift through all the responses, so - yep - if I got negged like that, he was gone (and I'm actually pretty easy going and not easily offended, fwiw). Look at it this way: she doesn't know you and making so-called flirtatious negative comments doesn't read well on first impression. She'll wonder if that's how you behave all the time or if you're reading the aforementioned Mystery Method. Great. A game player. No thanks.

But what do I know. Apparently Mystery Man gets laid all the time.

As a woman on a dating site, emailing someone you don't know (but whom you know is interested in you) is really awkward. I've probably sent a few of those type of bland emails myself. However, know that if she took the time to write back, there's some form of interest there. So write her back and ask her an open-ended but not overly personal question that requires more than a yes or no ("So you dislike Oprah's magazine, huh? What don't you like about it? Personally I'm not a fan of all her Gail stories."). Work your own experience into the equation, too, and go from there. I don't think she's playing hard to get, it's just awkward because you both know why you're there in the first place, which is a very different environment than if you randomly meet at Starbucks while both simultaneously reaching for the latte on the bar.
posted by December at 2:53 PM on June 4 [4 favorites has favorites]

If she responded, she's interested. What Hypothetical Lady wrote isn't a rejection, but you should treat the exchange like a conversation, not an interview.

(at least that's how I do this online dating thing. If you sent me that, I'd think you were interested but just picking keywords out of my profile.)

Also, re:
Any woman who is even slightly attractive is receiving literally hundreds of responses. She may be dashing off a few words to each. If that's the case, you may get a date with her, but don't be surprised if she has five others that week.

even though I won't admit it to people, on a good day, I'm fairly cute (yeah, a little chubby, but cute, and I've put flattering photos up, and I think my profile is personable), and I don't get "hundreds" of responses. I'm convinced this is a myth made up by rejected/ignored men. Or, maybe I'm just a lot uglier than I thought I was. But yeah, if she responded to you, write back, she's at least a little interested.

Also, we can tell when you've copied and pasted an email. "Hi, I'm bla bla bla, bla de bla, bla bla bla, oh basket weaving, eh? Bla bla bla, generic bla bla bla." A one line email meant just for me is better than a 3-paragraph, mostly copied & pasted message.
posted by AlisonM at 3:03 PM on June 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

I'm a woman, did a fair amount of online meeting of men, met my current SO online. He hooked me because he was pretty witty in his messages, and made me laugh.
One of the more enjoyable bits of online dating is the entertaining banter that can happen prior to the actual meeting. If you can make this woman smile or giggle, you've got an in.

I interpreted her response as a good sign. It was funny, she wants to see if you can match her wits. I used to send out brief responses to messages I received that were interesting to me. Any woman on a dating site gets a deluge of replies, I, like most other women, I am assuming, never responded to those that I wasn't interested in.
She's opening up the door a crack for you.
Be funny. Be charming, Be brief. Don't overthink it.
Good luck.
posted by newpotato at 4:14 PM on June 4

Please don't listen to Lord Fancy Pants. Please.
posted by srrh at 7:03 PM on June 4 [3 favorites has favorites]

Some of you have no idea of what I'm talking about. I'm talking about:

Being honest. Yes. Guys honestly deep down inside want to flirt with and tease women. It's wonderful, exciting fun. They should explore this ability that is sewn into every guy's genes. (To any guy reading this: You know what I'm talking about. You'd love to tease a gorgeous woman if you could. If only you could get over your timidity or socialisation or what have you. Listen to that voice inside. It knows what it's talking about.) Teasing is not nagging. Teasing is not being a jerk. If you don't get it, think about it a little more. If you don't like it, you're too sensitive. Not very attractive in a big picture kind of way.

NOT using "lines." Any suggestion of a "line" above is a suggestion that points towards a confident, cocky (yes, cocky), relaxed, fun attitude. You want cheesy pick up lines? Try, "Is your father an astronomer? Cuz it looks like he took the stars from the skies and put 'em in your eyes" or "Is your mom a teacher? Cuz she put 'l-o-v' between 'I' and 'U'" (or some crap like that--I can never remember). I don't suggest using "lines." They show laziness and a lack of creativity. Again, not attractive. If guys is confident and funny the conversation starters (not to be egregiously confused with "pick up lines") will come naturally. Use lines at your own risk. I don't advocate them. Women are looking for men. Real men--men who are comfortable in their own skin, who don't try too hard, who don't follow them around like puppy dogs. And guess what? A man feels comfortable being his own man--nice coincidence, nice symmetry. That means a guy should be confident, cocky, funny and creative, (those last two show intelligence). Men would do one helluvalot for themselves by getting in touch with their masculine side instead of running around on a wild goose chase searching for their "feminine side."

I've never heard of "Mystery Method."

Anybody wanna take it to MetaTalk? I'd love to continue further.
posted by Lord Fancy Pants at 10:44 AM on June 5

So I checked out "Mystery Method." Lame. Totally inadvisable for the top post writer. Sure there are a few coincidences here and there but even a broken clock is right twice a day. The vast majority of Mystery Method is pure crap. Check it out if you want to see why "lines" are a bad idea.

Hey, have you ever been so excited you couldn't fall asleep?

Who the hell talks like that? Guys need to be real. They need not only to be themselves but be themselves times ten.
posted by Lord Fancy Pants at 7:46 PM on June 5

« Older How can I get in DMOZ?... | Is it possible to easily upgra... Newer »

You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments

Are you starting a conversation or ending it? June 4, 2009 9:17 AM Subscribe

Are you starting a conversation or ending it?
June 4, 2009 9:17 AM Subscribe