Effectively hiring landscape architect

May 29, 2009 3:02 PM

What is the most effective process for hiring a landscape architect for a large project?

My homeowners association (HOA) needs to engage a landscape architect (LA) to develop a multi-year plan for replacing some deteriorating landscaping along a quarter-mile boulevard that is the centerpiece of our neighborhood. A board member (an LA, himself) has indicated that LA's "don't compete with each other on price" and that we should issue an RFP and make our choice based on interviews, references, etc. and then negotiate the price. My questions:

1. How accurate is this representation about the world of LA's?
2. Will the responses to the RFP likely include pricing information, anyway?
3. Absent pricing information, won't the proposals look pretty much alike? In other words, don't LA's use a template like so many other professionals in a consulting field?
4. How should a layman distinguish between good and not-so-good when reviewing the proposals?
5. If we negotiate price after selecting the LA, aren't we a bit over a barrel? Why might this not be so?

posted by John Borrowman to science & nature (11 comments total)

A board member (an LA, himself) has indicated that LA's "don't compete with each other on price"...

This is flat bullshit. My father has worked as a landscape architect for over 30 years and my grandfather for nearly fifty. Go ahead and solicit bids.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 3:05 PM on May 29

is it just soft materials (plants)? is there an existing hardscape that needs to replaced? New roads? Grading needs? Why do you think you need a Landscape Architect?

If its just soft materials you may be better off with a really good Landscape contractor. Cheaper, probably better long-term in terms of what plants get put in, etc. I've just seen a lot of poor work done by ASLA members through the years. Guys who just didn't get plants.

If its hardscapes etc. by all means get a landscape architect - but be very active in who he uses for the installation.

And yes everything is negotiable.
posted by JPD at 3:12 PM on May 29

I did a shitty job of answering your question
1.Bullshit
2.Yes they will. It isn't a proposal w/o a price estimate.
3. No they shouldn't. Its a design business like building a house. Different features, different plants, Irrigation etc.
4. Look at their past work. Especially ask to look at established work they've done. Things 5 years and older in age. Talk with the people who do the upkeep on that to find out if they've had problems. They should also be asking you guys what you want. Both esthetically and operationally (natives, low water use, low maintenance, etc etc)
5. Price is Materials + Labor + design fee. You should be able to discretely price all of them on your own and see if what they are offering is fair. Bear in mind they'll be lots of subs and they'll all be giving some back to the GC who will be giving something back to the architect. You should claw a lot of that back - especially with all forms of construction collapsing.
posted by JPD at 3:22 PM on May 29

Following-up:

3. Absent pricing information, won't the proposals look pretty much alike? In other words, don't LA's use a template like so many other professionals in a consulting field?

No, and if you get anything using red cedar mulch, feel free to reject it out of hand.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 3:32 PM on May 29

Definitely get bids or at least rates. I've worked with a lot of landscape architects (on larger commercial projects) and never heard anyone balk at being asked to submit a bid.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 3:37 PM on May 29

(I am an architect, so I have some dealings w/ LAs, plus we submit on RFPs)

Any RFP response my firm submits will have a fee proposal attached -- we put together a schedule (with staffing levels) and our billing rates. Multiply all those together and you end up with a fee.

Everything is negotiable after the client selects a firm (and if the fee negotiations fall through you may move on down the line), but a fee proposal is a reasonable thing to expect for a job of a not-too-small size. Basically, you should be clear that when you select your "winner" that it is contingent on successful negotiation of design fees (they should understand that, but the clearer you can be about money the better)

Of course, this assumes that your RFP is extremely clear about scope of work, schedule (so that escalation of materials + labor can be accounted for), otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges.
posted by misterbrandt at 3:46 PM on May 29

Another architects perspective:

1> I don't know exactly how your board member characterized it, but it is true that professional associations encourage selection of services based primarily on qualifications to do the work, not on price. With that said, it is absolutely the case that price is an important consideration in coming to an agreement.
2> You can either send an RFP (request for proposals) or an RFQ (request for qualifications). If you do the latter you could then select a small handful of firms to respond with more specific proposals. Firms should do either step for free, but I wouldn't bother with the two step process for a project of this size. It isn't specifically for landscape work, but the example here might help.
3> No, the qualifications and proposals of each firm are going to be different. Just like every doctor is different, so is every design professional (perhaps more so). Sometimes you want the absolute lowest price, other times you may want someone who will take extra time to explain the contractor bids, perhaps you want someone who will select plants that require less expense in watering and maintenance. This isn't one size fits all. Still, as noted above, asking for fee information at the same time is appropriate. Some clients request it in a separate envelope that is opened only after the basic proposals are reviewed and weighted.
4> Look at their experience, call references, schedule an interview and see who has a good interaction with you. You describe your project as large, but some LA firms might see it as a small sideline, so you want to find the good fit. You did call those references right?
5> You are less over the barrel than you may think. The goal is a mutually agreeable deal. If you start discussing with your leading candidate and it isn't working then you can step to the next one. Or ask for price with the proposal and use it to help decide. If you are bottom line driven this could be the dominant factor.


One approach is to use a weighted selection criteria that you publish with the RFP. It might be:
Firm fit to project: 10
Experience with similar work: 20
References: 20
Fees: 50

Hope this helps.
posted by meinvt at 4:09 PM on May 29

And a third architects perspective:

1. Every design profession competes on quality of work, relevant experience AND fee. If they tell you otherwise, you are in for a long long haul in my experience.

2. The RFP responses will include anything you deem important to the project. If your main concern is fee, then specifically ask for a fee proposal (and it can be in any number of forms, lump sum per project phase, hourly, percentage of total cost). Be very clear in the RFP, and if a firm does not include that information, you can assume they won't be straightforward as the project progresses.

3. I have seen wildly different RFP submittals from a large variety of LA firms. Most of the time it has to do with scope. Sounds you want a firm that can masterplan the entire project, then be involved as the phases are under construction. Be sure to be very specific about this in the RFP, and request similar / relevant project experience.

4. Honestly it depends on your design goals and vision for the project. It is important to find a design professional who exceeds your design expectations. This can be most readily seen in their recent / relevant experience.

5. As the other responders have said, the LA's price is entirely negotiable up to the point where the final contract is agreed upon. Even then there is always flexibility. It is important that any design professional be very up front about fees from the beginning. It can alleviate a ton of headaches down the road.

Also, you could also do some research on other similarly scoped (based on price, design quality etc.) RFP's to get a feel for the verbiage and qualifications.
posted by Benway at 4:31 PM on May 29

Very useful answers. Further clarification:

Plan may include hardscape, but most likely only plants. We need to plan for replacing the Leland cypress which are slowly succumbing to an untreatable fungus. Other trees/shrubs will remain. Current materials have been in place since approx. 1993.

Why an LA? 1. The boulevard (which is not merely a straight shot, but includes a hill and curves) is truly one of the most beautiful of any subdivision in this area. A critical "selling" point on the neighborhood, we want high quality design in terms of shapes, textures, colors, etc. 2. I (as Pres) want to be able to tell neighbors that we got the best we could for the money. 3. To some degree because of the recommendation of the Board member who is an LA.

Schedule: Execution will occur over multi-year period (estimated 3 to 6 years) based on availability of funds. Ergo, expecting that RFP will request that LA will provide complete plan and a "retainer" for each subsequent year that LA is needed to oversee selection of sections to be removed/replaced, purchase/installation of materials.
posted by John Borrowman at 4:50 PM on May 29

If its really just landscapes and its 1/4 mile along a boulevard I really don't think you should limit yourself to an LA. Just my opinion/experience. A LOT of LAs don't get plants. I've seen name LA's in the NY area come up with plans that looked absolutely beautiful when they were completed that three years later had to be radically reworked. Overspec'ing material for example is a chronic problem. To my mind what LAs do best are big master plans w/ lots of creative hardscapes + earth moving or specialized remediation type stuff. Take a look at the stuff that wins the ASLA awards = usually its the hardscape driven stuff that wins. You really should look at high quality landscaping firms. A lot of them will have people who are LA's on staff but they'll be much more plant driven + the design fee will be paid for w/ the margin on the materials. Plus it sounds like you want someone to manage the dying shrubs - a LA is just going to sub that out. Why pay the vig on that?

Also you talk about wanting to get the best in terms of "shapes, textures, colors" well the actual available palette of plant materials (especially non-woody stuff) in any area is actually pretty limited - its a function of what the nursuries grow. Landscape Architects don't have anything available to them that everyone else doesn't - actually its usually the opposite case. Additionally once the job is done they are gone.
posted by JPD at 6:02 PM on May 29

Just seconding that you may not need a LA for this type of work as JPD indicated. It seems a lot of LA programs don't require a lot of plant knowledge (the one I teach in does). Also, typical LA's many focus include the issues of hardscape, construction details, grading (etc).

A good/large landscape installer might be the best bet here as they are more experienced with the plant material and know what works in a given situation (eg. near roads). Many of them have in-house designers who could even be LA's.

Also, something to consider with you specific project could be "greening up" the median by putting in some sort of stormwater control (rain gardens?), using non-invasive plants, etc. If you went this route which would have technical needs for the stormwater controls, you could benefit by the services of an LA.
posted by buttercup at 8:13 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]