When does becoming a good listener go too far?

May 27, 2009 8:43 AM

As a friend of someone who is going through an extended personal rough patch, how do I find and maintain a good balance between being a sympathetic ear and feeling like a punching bag?

Doris and I, both in our mid twenties, have been friends since our freshman year of college, and moved to the same city after we graduated two years ago.

For the past nine months or so, things have not been going well for Doris. Doris works as a freelance writer, which means that her jobs are generally of short duration and long hours, and her next job prospect is always a little nebulous. On top of roommate issues, romantic drama, feelings of isolation in a new town, and family health worries, she's had a few extended stretches of unemployment, which take their toll on her morale and on her wallet, leaving her seriously in the dumps and struggling to pay rent and student loans. Sometimes these things happen to her all at once.

Doris and I speak several times a week, and I feel as if most of our conversations lately are consumed by venting about her problems to the point where my interactions with her feel absolutely draining. Doris' problems are legitimate, stressful, and difficult to navigate, and I also realize that she may be depressed (an issue which I have cautiously raised with her, to no avail). But after nearly a year of being a sympathetic ear and occasional cheerleader, I am having increasing difficulty being the person to whom Doris unleashes her negative attitude about the state of her life, especially since this seems to be the default mode for our interactions recently. I have always tried to be a person to whom Doris could come to with her problems, but her constant bitter, negative attitude is wearing on me, and I find myself wanting to distance myself from her --- and feeling guilty for doing so, when she is having real trouble and obviously needs a sympathetic, solid friend right now. I realize that friendship is not always easy, and have tried to keep that in mind, but it is difficult, exhausting, and frankly sometimes very frustrating dealing with Doris' problems.

In short, I'm having a hard time finding a balance between being a sympathetic friend while not feeling used or resenting Doris for always (or mostly) putting me in the "support" position. I'm wondering if you have any suggestions for how I can better handle this situation to maintain my sanity and our friendship.

Questions to [e-mail]

posted by anonymous to human relations (18 comments total)

Off the top of my head -- as a person who spends a lot of time doing as you do for other people -- I'd say find a way to talk to her less often. You'll still be the sympathetic person she needs, but you'll have more time to recharge between. That, or change the way you talk to her; talk on the phone? Try moving to IM. Talk at a quiet restaurant? Try a noisy one. Mix it up in such a way that it's less conductive to those types of conversations (or at least partially shields you from the depth of it.)

Also: don't be afraid to change the subject.
posted by davejay at 8:53 AM on May 27 [1 favorite]

"Doris, it sucks that you're going through all of this right now... I can totally empathize... It seems like it's all we talk about when we hang out, though... I'm here to listen when you need to talk about it, but talking about it so much probably isn't helping as much as other things would.

You know what we should do? Let's go see a hilarious/stupid movie and then grab a cheap bite to eat somewhere and distract you a bit.. it would be good for you..."


The only way Doris is ever going to get better is if she gets off her butt and gets out... moping is acceptable for a certain amount of time, but at the end of the day, she's never going to be happy if that's what she spends all of her time doing... The best thing you can do as a friend is try and get her out -- either to a movie, or into an enjoyable social situation (bowling with a few friends? a dinner party? heck, playing Scrabble at a coffeeshop if that's more your thing)...

If Doris is insured (maybe not, as a freelancer), she should also consider seeing someone about therapy... That's not something I'm generally quick to suggest, but if she's complaining so constantly that she's dragging down her best friend - it may be time for that...
posted by twiggy at 8:56 AM on May 27 [1 favorite]

I had this issue with a friend once and it is draining after awhile. What I ended up doing is just being honest with him after about 6 months of his constant obsessing over his problems. I said "I love you and want to help you, but I have exhausted all of the tools in my toolbelt to help you. And my efforts just don't seem to be working at all." I encouraged him to find a therapist who might actually be able to help and explained that it was simply frustrating and draining for me after all of the time that has passed without any real progress.

A few weeks later (when he kept doing it), I had to get a little harsher and explained that our friendship seemed very one-sided in that he would not listen to any of the issues I raised with him about my life without bringing it back to him and his issues. Needless to say, this hurt his feelings.

About 3 months later, he said that what I had said really made him angry at the time, but he realized that what I had said was true and that he was completely self-absorbed at that time. He thanked me for giving him the "kick in the pants" that he didn't realize he needed.

We are still very close friends today. I think it was because I always made clear how much I loved him, wanted him to find his happiness and valued his friendship.
posted by murrey at 9:08 AM on May 27 [1 favorite]

I would hazard that the actual answer is for someone to present a legitimate case to you as to why you do not become a bad person by cutting Doris off.

Here goes: You do not become a bad person by cutting Doris off. On the contrary, she is being a bad person by demanding so much of you. Don't enable her bad behavior. That's the hardest lesson I've ever learned.
posted by jefficator at 9:09 AM on May 27

I have kind of been on both sides of this one. I have one friend who is Doris to me, and one friend to whom I am a bit of a Doris.

I try to set boundaries. I let her talk, I listen, I'm sympathetic, but when it's time to go I say, "I have to go. I'll talk to you later." if I'm busy when she calls, I let it go to Voicemail. Making sure I'm not constantly "on call" helps keep it from turning into a "martyr" situation. The last thing you want to is to start to feel obligated and then resentful of her.

For my friend I tend to call about my own problems, I don't really apologize or make excuses: this is what, in my opinion, friends are for. However, I do try to:

1) Not bother her too often
2) Ask about her problems too, so it feels more like sharing and less like me whining
3) keep a sense of humor about it.
posted by drjimmy11 at 9:10 AM on May 27

What worked for me were the words, "I feel like our friendship has been becoming a doctor-patient relationship."
posted by rhizome at 9:13 AM on May 27

I've been there. As far as I've been able to figure it out for myself, the thing that's making you resentful and exhausted is not that she's venting. It's that you're suppressing your own negative feelings. No matter how much you love someone, listening them rant for a half an hour will probably annoy you to some degree. And spending the next 2 hours trying to suppress your feelings of annoyance will start to get really tiring. And doing it for multiple hours, 3 times a week, 9 months in a row will start to make you irritated, frustrated, exhausted, and resentful!

Does this train of thought sound familiar? "It's not fair to get annoyed with her, she's dealing with so much more than me, and besides, she's in real crisis right now and she really needs someone to listen to her unconditionally," etc. etc. etc. It's exhausting to do this mental work! You're trying to talk yourself out of totally normal irritation, and spending enormous amounts of energy to do so. Even worse, you can't really get rid of that feeling. It lurks there, unexpressed, growing and growing, until it's full-blown anger (and it will probably get triggered by something eventually).

I think the only solution is to be a little less nice, and a little more honest about what you need. You don't have to be an asshole, but you do have to be frank. It's going to be hard to break the habit of suppressing your irritation, and (because you've got all kinds of resentment stored up at this point) it's going to be hard not to explode once you pop the tab. But it's possible to do. Just don't treat it like a huge traumatic drama. So, for example ...

DORIS: "... and I think he thought I was ugly, but he wasn't saying it, and it was just so sucky, and everything sucks, and it's just like my job, which sucks, and my apartment, which sucks, and --"

YOU: "Hang on a second. We've been talking about this for a while, and it's starting to stress me out. We can talk more about it later, but I need to take a break. Can we do something different for a little while?"

This is actually the mildest possible version of what you could say. Eventually, you should try to work up to the point where you can just say, "Chill out for a second, Doris. You're obsessing and it's stressing me out. Let's go make muffins and talk about something else, ok?" This shouldn't be a problem in a real friendship. She knows you're her friend. Even if you tell her to chill out, she still knows you like her. If not, then maybe she has a deeper problem with insecurity (which, by the way, you can't solve for her no matter how supportive you act).

Just give it a shot -- be honest with her when she's bugging you. It's your only chance at re-calibrating the relationship.
posted by ourobouros at 9:27 AM on May 27 [2 favorites]

In addition to being honest with her, could you guys work out together? Fitness walking, perhaps, since it is cheap?

This would be something that would make her feel physically and emotionally better, and, best of all, achieveable goals could be set and attained. She'd be making some progress at something productive, and that is really important when things are tough on the job front.

You would be together, but there'd automatically be a new topic of conversation. Plus, depending on the exercise, you wouldn't be able to talk during what you'd be doing. (Swimming, for example.)

I've been Doris, and I applaud you for wanting to work things out!
posted by jgirl at 10:32 AM on May 27

I think ourobouros has the right idea. You need to express how you feel if you want to remain friends with Doris. She needs to remember that friendship is a two-way street. Truthfully, it sounds to me like she could benefit from finding a therapist to talk to. Regardless, your friendship has fallen into a rut, and one or both of you need to change your habits to break out of it. Hopefully, the knowledge that she's dragging you down with her will be enough incentive for her to change, but it's up to you to let her know that she's doing it and that you can't handle it anymore. I'm sorry you have to deal with this; I've been in a similar place, and it really is hard. Good luck!

On preview: jgirl's exercise idea is a great one. One of the biggest problems that I ran into with my Doris was having a lot of trouble finding something to talk about that wasn't the big drama. Doing anything active together could be a good step, and if the exercise did help her to feel better about herself, then that's even better.
posted by ashirys at 10:47 AM on May 27

Friendship is a two-way street. You have to be honest with her. Doris may not take your honesty well at first, sometimes the truth hurts (wow, cliches much?) and it's not your responsibility to take on her problems.
I'm not saying you need to ditch Doris ASAP, just that you need to tell her that you'd like a chance to speak sometimes, or a chance to interact with her in a way that doesn't drag you down. Maybe suggest that all your listening hasn't seemed to help, so it's time to try another avenue.
posted by purpletangerine at 12:23 PM on May 27

n'thing being honest about the effects her rambling has on you. She may be self-absorbed to the point where she really might not know, especially if you've been amenible to listening in the past.

My approach would be:

Her: "Blah blah blah-"

You: "Hmmm, yes, that's difficult. I told you the other week what my thoughts were. What is your reaction to the suggestions I made?"

Her: (discounts them, continues complaining.)

You: "You know, I don't have any advice left on that subject. I do want to help you but honestly, I've already said everything I can think of. Shall we talk about something else so you don't keep worrying about that issue? Did you read the story in the paper about..."

If it continues, see upthread for many good ways to word "the talk."
posted by cranberrymonger at 2:13 PM on May 27

Oh and n'thing suggestions of making yourself less available (don't always pick up the phone, wait a full day before calling or e-mailing her back). You could also set a time limit on her negative talk and your conversations as a whole. She's taking advantage of you so don't feel guilty.
posted by cranberrymonger at 2:15 PM on May 27

Doris, can we go see a movie, take a walk, help me with this craft project? You know I'm here for you, but I think a break from talking would help us both feel better and cope better.

1. I have a friend like Doris. Sometimes I don't answer her calls, because she won't take action to make things better, and sometimes my own life is too stressful for me to shoulder any of her stress. When I suggest she take a walk (sunshine + exercise is good for stress) she blows me off. When I try to talk about my troubles, she doesn't listen. Yuck.

2. Sometimes I'm Doris. My life gets complicated, and I need to vent.

I try to remember #2 when #1 happens.

Also, once in a while, call her. It breaks the pattern.
posted by theora55 at 3:01 PM on May 27

It sounds like part of the frustration is that you're hearing the same things over and over. If that's a factor, my mother told me about a rule her group of friends had: A person was allowed to talk about an issue or problem three times and then they had to do something about it. If they didn't take some action, they couldn't keep complaining about it.
posted by Lexica at 5:49 PM on May 27 [1 favorite]

I would start with some tough love, as suggested. Start calling her out when she complains about things but doesn't try to fix them.

Then, plan diversions. After she's vented, say - "gosh, that sounds terrible, I think you need to not think or talk about it anymore. I will be round at your place in 20min with a bottle of wine and scrabble, and we are going to have fun and try to ignore the world and it's problems." Then force her to be cheerful. It may not work with everyone, but it is an option if you don't want to confront it head on.
posted by kjs4 at 6:16 PM on May 27

I've been both Doris and you in this situation.

As Doris, I've found it effective when the other person told me that I was wearing them down. I try to be aware as much as I can of when I'm being needy, but I don't always know. For me, it was good for the other person to let me know I was becoming an emotional black hole. So let her know as nicely as you can.

As you, I've found it helpful to take control of the interaction. For example, starting off the conversation about a book she may like or a movie you'd want to see with her or something funny that happened to you today. If she really reverts it back to her problems again, then let her know.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 6:53 PM on May 27

Me thinks a lot of us have been Doris and been around Doris.

At the moment, a good friend and I are sorta both so there is a sense of taking turns. There have been more than a couple moments, though, of feeling like relating thoughts and feelings about big, life-impacting things, being in the market for observations from a generally insightful person who has a detached perspective and the friend says, "Oh, sounds tough, but I'm really torn between this woman with beautiful legs who's kinda selfish and this other woman who feels more compatible."

As someone above noted, the festering irritation can get weighty.

A good measure of our interaction is via e-mail and lame as it may be, I can find it easier to speak my mind via that medium, take advantage of the fact that I can edit what I write, choose my words carefully.

Can say that what I've related has gone over well, the response has been along the lines of, "You're right. I've been acting like a 14-year-old relative to these women and I've been a shoddy friend."

That's not to say it's stopped entirely, but there is awareness and my friend can pick up on a bit of a here-we-go-again look and tone or I'll flat out say "Pick one. Do some damn thing. You're making yourself crazy and I start to wonder if making drama and unhappiness is the real goal."
posted by ambient2 at 2:19 AM on May 28 [1 favorite]

I had to split with my Doris. If you go that route eventually, do it in a way that you can feel ok about in the long term. It's been about a year for me, and I still feel somehow guilty about it when I think about it.
posted by pizzazz at 8:16 AM on May 28