Relatively inexpensive high-quality kitchen cabinets?

May 21, 2009 10:31 AM

Inexpensive (relatively), high-quality kitchen cabinets? My Husband is a wood worker who doesn't have time to build a whole kitchen's worth of cabinets. But being a woodworker, he is particular about cabinets (see desired attributes inside). We have been quoted approximately $23,000 for our kitchen (which is a fairly normal sized, middle class level kitchen). $23,000 seems excessive to me. We are in the Bay Area. Any thoughts about where we can buy high-quality cabinets (as described) at a lower price either in a store in the Bay Area or online would be appreciated

can be customized (for example, to fit around the post)
- 3/4" plywood construction
- natural cherry shaker style doors and drawer fronts
- no face frame (European style)
- full overlay
- drawers and door fronts finished outside of california (with high-solids content catalyzed conversion varnish or similar)
- full extension drawers
- metal drawer slides with ball bearings
- soft-close drawers
- 120 degree Blum hinges on doors
- no use of vinyl (e.g., wood-grained vinyl in place of veneer)
- available features like:
* pull-out spice rack
* pull-out trash bin
* half-moon lazy susan

posted by bananafish to home & garden (29 comments total)

oh, that should be $23,000 for kitchen cabinets, not $23,000 for the kitchen (I wish ....)
posted by bananafish at 10:32 AM on May 21

Ikea has relatively good cabinets that aren't too expensive. Customizability is probably not their strongest point. Otherwise they have everything else you list. except no lazy susans to my knowledge. At any rate, their parts list is in their catalogue and it's simple enough to figure out the cost by yourself without needing anyone to give you a quote. Local stores are Emeryville and East Palo Alto on the off chance you don't already know.

They're definitely not finished in CA but I'm not sure if that means they're as bomb-proof as all that. You can always go to a store and see 'em in person.
posted by GuyZero at 10:44 AM on May 21

I would disagree with GuyZero: IKEA kitchens look and feel like, well, IKEA. They are not particularly well-made, and their finishes look obviously cheap (they are great for the money, but by no means high-quality).
posted by halogen at 10:48 AM on May 21 [1 favorite]

Ikea does have lazy susans, actually, if you're talking about the big ones that go in the space under the sink to hold pots and pans. My parents were remodeling their kitchen earlier this year, and when my clutterphobic father saw them at Ikea, it blew his mind.
posted by joyceanmachine at 10:49 AM on May 21

One man's cheap and flimsy is another man's good enough. Ikea cabinetry is better than the cabinetry that came with every house I ever bought or rented. But yes, there's better cabinets than Ikea out there. I expect they would cost, say, $23,000.
posted by GuyZero at 10:51 AM on May 21 [4 favorites]

We got an estimate for kitchen cabinets and granite countertops in our old 900-sq-ft house in St. Louis about five years ago. It was $21,000! So, 23k doesn't seem that bad.
posted by Ostara at 10:55 AM on May 21

Inexpensive and high-quality are two terms that rarely go together. In the custom-built furniture world, read "rarely" as "never ever ever".

Given your list, and your location, $23k seems in the ballpark for good work.

You will have to compromise on one quality or the other.
posted by Aquaman at 10:58 AM on May 21

If your husband is a woodworker, why not have him just do a little research and figure out what he'd charge a customer for the same job. That'll give you an actual data point to use in deciding whether 23K is reasonable. Given your rather long list of requirements, and that we have no idea how many cabinets and doors you're talking about, I wouldn't be enormously surprised if 23K wound up being right on.
posted by amelioration at 11:00 AM on May 21

I have IKEA cabinets in my home. They do not have plywood construction (the cabinets are made of particle board with a veneer overlay). With regards to your other criteria, they mostly fit. One possible suggestion would be to search around on Craigslist. A few years ago I had some custom furniture made by a cabinet maker on Craigslist who was new to the area. I visited his shop before I had the work done and saw examples of his work. It was very high quality work, but I got a great price.

Another possible solution would be to find someone to make the cabinet frames for you out of plywood like you want, but to use IKEA doors and hardware. They have solid wood doors and they have very high quality hardware.
posted by bove at 11:03 AM on May 21

Just agreeing that 23K doesn't seem excessive. We just started the renovation of our normal sized, middle class level kitchen (Boston metro area). Cabinets are spec'ed almost exactly to your standards and cost 25K.
posted by ArgentineBlonde at 11:09 AM on May 21

There's no way to tell if this is overly expensive or not without knowing how many cabinet/cabinet units there are. With that you can guesstimate material costs and then what's left over is labor. If they're all using similar profiles, you can probably count on being able to make between 5 and 6 cabinet doors per day (I'm guessing, of course, but assuming that I had blanks or glue ups for each cabinet face done, it's pretty much one router set up for the frame using rail and stile bits and one shaper set up for raised panels), then it goes pretty quickly. If your husband wants to insist on meticulously cut rail and stile joinery, that will cost.

Given that a typical cabinet face uses about 6 board feet of wood, and cherry can be between $6 and $10US per board foot, that's between $36 and $60 per cabinet.

Building carcasses will take longer, but I could see being able to do 2-4 per day, depending on complexity. Cherry ply is about $100-$120US per sheet. You can insist on the inside being done in cherry ply as well, but you probably don't want that since 1/2 the wood won't be seen. Shelves are another matter.

As for the details, they will add a nominal cost per cabinet, but not thousands.

For the spice rack, maybe your husband would want to do that himself? I did one for my kitchen from plans in Woodsmith (I was unable to find the plans online), and the results were quite satisfying (and if your husband looks at that, you can tell him that the maple has since yellowed and matches the rest of the cabinetry.

With respect to your husband's obsession, trust me, I understand. I avoid buying furniture because while it might look nice, the cost went into the finish and not the design. My spouse has put up with me looking over pieces and shaking my head and muttering things like "morons glued cross grain, this thing will self-destruct inside of two years..." or "damn drawer fronts should be held on with dovetails or locking mortices". At some point, you need to find a compromise, or you'll be sleeping on a mattress on a bare metal frame until the "right" one comes along.
posted by plinth at 11:16 AM on May 21

Ikea has a kitchen planner that you can download. Then you can see what it would cost for various styles of cabinetry. I spent @ 5,000 for cabinets, stove, dishwasher, microwave, sink, faucet and delivery. This was with the 20% discount (now ended, sorry) that persuaded me to get appliances from Ikea. They have a range of quality. An architect friend recommended them. Because of their volume, their quality is better than anything similarly priced that I saw. They use sustainable wood harvesting/replanting. If you get the most popular style, you'll have a wide variety of choice. It was just delivered, not yet assembled, so my recommendation is not unqualified.

Your husband likely charges a fair price for his work, as he should. Better quality, solid wood, true craftsmanship, all cost money. For the most part, to get more, you have to pay more.

Habitat for Humanity has ReStore stores, where people donate old kitchens when they renovate. A friend got a fabulous deal, but a lot more people are aware of it now. I didn't have the time to go there weekly in hopes of a good set of cabinets, then find a carpenter to modify them for my needs.
posted by theora55 at 11:38 AM on May 21

A friend's parents just spent over $100k refitting their small kitchen with new counter tops, cabinets and appliances.

Yes they paid too much, but then again the kitchen will likely look good and work well 20 or 30 years from now, or longer even. By comparison, $23k seems modest.

I too recommend Ikea. If your husband is capable of doing the work himself then there are many options for customizing their products to suit your needs. Indeed, if you want a particular style of cabinet door you could still build them onto Ikea cabinet carcasses etc. At the very least it's worth a visit just to get some ideas.
posted by wfrgms at 11:45 AM on May 21

Highland Designs is nowhere near you, but they sell custom unfinished cabinets made by Woodcraft Industries. There's a dealer locator on Woodcraft's site, but Highland's has prices and options.

I haven't bought from them, but will be doing some kitchen renovations soon and they're on the short list for cabinet suppliers. They also offer custom finishing for an additional charge.
posted by electroboy at 12:38 PM on May 21 [1 favorite]

Also, some quick comparisons showed that their finished cabinets were about the same cost as the nicer Ikea cabinets, but I suppose it all depends on what options you want.
posted by electroboy at 12:39 PM on May 21

I believe I have all the features you are looking for in my cabinets, except that they are Shaker-style maple, not cherry. They are Thomasville cabinets from Home Depot, and were $16,000 including labor. I have many custom features--a window seat, cabinet-fronted refrigerator and dishwasher, weird angles, end panels, plate rack, etc. Full-extension drawers, two pantries with slide-out drawers. Five years and two jumping puppies later, they still look brand new. Very solid. I know Home Depot gets a bad rap, but the guy who did our cabinets was AWESOME, the best out of all the contractors we had working on our kitchen, and the Home Depot kitchen designer is now a good friend.
posted by HotToddy at 1:00 PM on May 21

That price sounds about right. As for unfinished, the finish applied in the factories may have a factory look to it but it lasts forever.
posted by caddis at 1:03 PM on May 21

I love Ikea myself, but Ikea will never ever make a professional woodworker happy. Just forget it, people. Thomasville is also pretty crappy quality (believe me, I've toured the factories) though a step higher.

I agree with those above: have your husband price it out as if he was doing the job, and then you are armed with a great "comparison quote" to take to others. Heck, ask if they'll match it.
posted by rokusan at 1:56 PM on May 21

$23k for custom cabinets installed in the Bay Area is a very good price.

Your husband is a woodworker, he can decide whether Ikea is acceptable quality. There are also many "semi-custom" options where the boxes come in 3" increments and are about 30% cheaper. But full custom is awfully nice.
posted by Nelson at 2:20 PM on May 21

I'm the husband in question. I'm not a pro, just a garage-level amateur, so I couldn't possibly price it out myself. Ikea does give me the willies, but mostly because particleboard gets a bad rap (I can swallow my pride if you pay me enough). Cabinetmakers are consistent in their hatred of particleboard, while at the same time Ikea fans are wild about their cabinets, so I don't know what to make of that; I suppose they may regret their particleboard in 10 years?

These guys seem to have outrageously low prices: http://amzcabinets.com/price_list.html
We have 25 linear feet of base cabinets including a corner unit, 10 linear feet of upper cabinets including a corner unit, and four linear feet of pantry cabinets including a corner unit. That comes to about $7k with their quoted prices--so I'm off to figure out which string is attached to that insanely low number! Will post back with results.
posted by jewzilla at 5:27 PM on May 21

Even if you hate it, you can always go to an Ikea, slam the cabinet doors in the model kitchens for an hour and then order a single cabinet to take home and hit with a hammer until you feel like you've come to a conclusion about how durable the cabinets and/or doors are. heck, go attack the model kitchens in the store with a hammer. I was in the East Palo Alto store last night and you probably could have spent half an hour doing it before anyone noticed you. If nothing else, they make it easy for you to evaluate the product before you buy it which is more than you can say for most cabinetry places. If you think it's crap, then it's crap, but at least it's no mystery.
posted by GuyZero at 5:35 PM on May 21 [2 favorites]

i bought my entire kitchen--except for the stove--on craigslist for $3k. that includes 21 cabinets (2 corner cabinets, 1 i don't know what it's called but it has a pull-out for a tv, a couple of open ctabinnets, a coouple orf glass-fronted cabinets, etc.), stove, sink (w/faucet & disposal), stainless steel whirlpool gold fridge, dishwasher, and granite countertops/backsplashes. (i'm not using the granite because it would have to be re-cut & re-pieced & i didn't trust my contractor that far. so i'm going to resell the granite on craigslist.) someone in a good neighborhood was remodeling the house & just wanted the stuff out of there (and had already had her contractors carefully remove the old stuff). it cost me more to buy my paperstone countertops and a jenn-aire downdraft stove than it did for the rest of my kitchen.

i've had contractors tell me they l-o-v-e my kitchen. it wasn't exactly what i wanted, but once i started looking i was overwhelmed with choices. (who knew there were so many types of drawer pulls in the world?) so, i bought cheap & along with a pretty nice kitchen, i got rid of the burden of choice.

if your husband is at all handy, you can do something similar w/cabinets and still get exactly what you want, even if it means installing new doors or new hinges or whatever. then you can take the $20k you saved & buy a new car ; )
posted by msconduct at 5:36 PM on May 21

Ikea fans are wild about their cabinets

Well, just a data point: we have Ikea cabinets in our (rented) house, and I hate them and feel they are shoddy. I hate them more and find them shoddier the older they get.
posted by redfoxtail at 7:12 PM on May 21

Ikea? Are you guys smoking crack? her husband is a woodworker, he knows quality. Ikea is not quality, it is well priced mediocrity. He will not be happy with this, nor should he be. Ikea is for young kids with low finances who want something that will look nice and last at least three to five years. If you want something nicer you will have to pay more. OK, on a kitchen cabinet their timeline might even be a decade. Not good enough!
posted by caddis at 7:24 PM on May 21

I am not trying to convince you to buy IKEA cabinets, but I do want to correct the impression that they are junk. Some of their furniture is low quality, but their kitchen cabinets are quite good for what they are. Check this thread for Mefite opinions on IKEA cabinets. You might also want to read this , this, and this. Like I said above, the boxes are particle board, but many of their doors are solid wood and their hardware is very high quality. I think for a low budget option they are the best value for the money. Yes, you can get higher quality cabinets, but the price is usually much higher.
posted by bove at 7:39 PM on May 21

My understanding is that Ikea cabinets (at least some of them) are made from MDF and have solid wood front and door options.

MDF shouldn't be chalked up as just "particle board" - it's pretty solid stuff, and in some people's opinion better for such applications because it is engineered for stability.

Anyway, Norm Abram uses the stuff, so it can't be all bad.
posted by wfrgms at 10:49 PM on May 21

Also, Costco has cabinets.
posted by electroboy at 6:29 AM on May 22

A data point on the longevity of IKEA cabinets: my parents bought a kitchen set in 1984-5 for our cottage. Being very budget conscious people, they bought the cheapest level of trim possible, as the old demonstrator model from the scratch and dent section. These are the white melamine-coated particleboard everyone associates with low-end disposable Swedish furniture. It's been in continuous use since then (not heavy use, but say about 1/4 of the time). We've rebuilt the kitchen, that is, removed the cabinets and then replaced them again, at least five times for unrelated animal issues and for a bathroom renovation on the other side of a common wall.

The cabinets still look quite decent. They're cheap sure, but all the hinges still work, the plastic pulls all still function, the cabinet structure, even with all the moving about, is still excellent. The only issue we've had was a leaky sink which damaged the particleboard back of the sink cabinet. We replaced it with new particleboard a couple years ago (in one of the battles of the Third War Against The Mice), and it's been fine ever since.

So those cheap, disposable IKEA cabinets have lasted us more than twenty years and should last a while longer (unless we get really sick of them). Those anonymous white particleboard cabinets are a lot better than you might think, in our experience.
posted by bonehead at 10:03 AM on May 22 [1 favorite]

I'm going to echo what msconduct said above. If your husband is handy with wood, it should be very possible to find somebody who's upgrading their perfectly good cabinets, and that the old ones off their hands for a song. Craigslist would be a great place to start, but what about contacting a local cabinet installer and asking him to keep an eye open for a good second hand set.
posted by SteveInMaine at 10:18 AM on May 22