Did Keynes really say this?
May 20, 2009 2:00 PM
Did Keynes really say, "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone."?
This is really two questions: did he actually say "most wickedest"? Did he actually say anything like this and, if so, where?
I find it hard to believe that Lord Keynes could say anything so ungrammatical, but "most wickedest" is far more common on the Net than "most wicked". And Noam Chomsky calls this a "purported" quote. I'm scanning Galbraith now because I'm pretty certain he uses the quote somewhere, but haven't found it yet.
This is really two questions: did he actually say "most wickedest"? Did he actually say anything like this and, if so, where?
I find it hard to believe that Lord Keynes could say anything so ungrammatical, but "most wickedest" is far more common on the Net than "most wicked". And Noam Chomsky calls this a "purported" quote. I'm scanning Galbraith now because I'm pretty certain he uses the quote somewhere, but haven't found it yet.
More info: if you add Keynes to the Google Books search, it gives the exact same results. If you add Galbraith instead, you get zero results.
posted by Jaltcoh at 2:35 PM on May 20, 2009
posted by Jaltcoh at 2:35 PM on May 20, 2009
Nothing on Google books quotes it before 2000 though so it seems a bit suspicious to me.
posted by interplanetjanet at 2:48 PM on May 20, 2009
posted by interplanetjanet at 2:48 PM on May 20, 2009
Yeah, no primary sources (or even good secondary sources) come up in Google Books. Ran various permutations through JSTOR and nothing came up at all. Smells apocryphal.
posted by otio at 2:51 PM on May 20, 2009
posted by otio at 2:51 PM on May 20, 2009
The earliest appearance I can find on Google Books is in this book which gives no specific source for the quote and was published in 2001.
It seems pretty unlikely that Keynes actually said it to me.
posted by interplanetjanet at 2:54 PM on May 20, 2009
It seems pretty unlikely that Keynes actually said it to me.
posted by interplanetjanet at 2:54 PM on May 20, 2009
Ran various permutations through JSTOR and nothing came up at all.
Well, here are 4 scholarly sources (Google Scholar). But at least one of them got it from this website.
posted by Jaltcoh at 4:31 PM on May 20, 2009
Well, here are 4 scholarly sources (Google Scholar). But at least one of them got it from this website.
posted by Jaltcoh at 4:31 PM on May 20, 2009
How about Google Books? This book attributes it to Keynes, with "most wickedest."
Well, here are 4 scholarly sources (Google Scholar).
Those are all useless as sources. The only acceptable source is one with an actual citation of one of Keynes's works. I seriously doubt one will turn up. There are a lot of apocryphal quotes out there, and this is almost certainly one of them.
posted by languagehat at 4:36 PM on May 20, 2009
Well, here are 4 scholarly sources (Google Scholar).
Those are all useless as sources. The only acceptable source is one with an actual citation of one of Keynes's works. I seriously doubt one will turn up. There are a lot of apocryphal quotes out there, and this is almost certainly one of them.
posted by languagehat at 4:36 PM on May 20, 2009
I agree with languagehat -- spurious and net-invented, ten years old if that.
I can't find any alternative permutation or even a different attribution. That also speaks to the cut-and-paste forwarding culture. At least somewhere there would be a citation of a work.
posted by dhartung at 9:18 PM on May 20, 2009
I can't find any alternative permutation or even a different attribution. That also speaks to the cut-and-paste forwarding culture. At least somewhere there would be a citation of a work.
posted by dhartung at 9:18 PM on May 20, 2009
Yes, I'm looking for an actual cite from Keynes' writing. Or a cite from someone who says "I was there when Maynard said..." Or whatever.
I have found Google cites going back to the 90s, which is about as far back as Net cites go.
I am still convinced that I read somewhere (or maybe heard, in one of those TV series he did) Galbraith's quoting of Keynes and, If I can find it, that should take the phrase back into antediluvian pre-Net times.
I appreciate everyone's help so far but there won't be a vote taken on this. There has to be an Ur source for this quote -- from Keynes or not, as the case may be.
Two things I have not done: 1) check a bio of Keynes; 2) write/e-mail a Keynes scholar. I will be working these possibilities as well.
posted by CCBC at 2:05 AM on May 21, 2009
I have found Google cites going back to the 90s, which is about as far back as Net cites go.
I am still convinced that I read somewhere (or maybe heard, in one of those TV series he did) Galbraith's quoting of Keynes and, If I can find it, that should take the phrase back into antediluvian pre-Net times.
I appreciate everyone's help so far but there won't be a vote taken on this. There has to be an Ur source for this quote -- from Keynes or not, as the case may be.
Two things I have not done: 1) check a bio of Keynes; 2) write/e-mail a Keynes scholar. I will be working these possibilities as well.
posted by CCBC at 2:05 AM on May 21, 2009
Two things I have not done: 1) check a bio of Keynes
Ah, but we have. That's the beauty of Google Book search. Here all the books with Keynes in the title searchable through Google Books.
None of these biographies contains any of your search terms. It's impossible to prove a negative but I think it's safe to say this is apocryphal.
posted by otio at 1:39 PM on May 21, 2009
Ah, but we have. That's the beauty of Google Book search. Here all the books with Keynes in the title searchable through Google Books.
None of these biographies contains any of your search terms. It's impossible to prove a negative but I think it's safe to say this is apocryphal.
posted by otio at 1:39 PM on May 21, 2009
I've come to the conclusion that Keynes didn't say it, but I suspect someone did -- someone who didn't say "most wickedest". I'm checking GB Shaw right now.
posted by CCBC at 1:17 PM on May 22, 2009
posted by CCBC at 1:17 PM on May 22, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Jaltcoh at 2:34 PM on May 20, 2009