Should I go to the circus?

May 19, 2009 11:40 AM

Should I go to the circus?

I really like going to the Circus. The problem is, I am very troubled by all of the allegations against Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey, specifically the elephant mistreatment.

First question is: are the allegations for real? A little internet research turns up so much information that it seems tough to just ignore it.

Second question: Assuming that they do mistreat the elephants, If I go to the circus, am I tacitly endorsing their mistreatment? If I don't go to the circus, am I ensuring that the circus will then have less money and will treat the animals even worse?

posted by charlesv to science & nature (21 comments total)

Regardless of the truth of the allegations, you can take the carbon-credit route and assuage your guilt by donating an amount comprable to what you spend at the circus to the Elephant Sanctuary in Hohenwald, TN.
posted by Pollomacho at 11:44 AM on May 19

One of those links is the PETA.

I would trust what PETA says about as far as I can throw them.

The PETA use scare tactics and outrageous marketing schemes to get attention.

Answers to your second question: It's hard to say, every dollar Ringling Bros receives either goes to maintenance, animal care, or someone's pay check. You could be endorsing a meal for a family of four - if you want to look at it that way.

I doubt the circus will see a great impact by you not going.
posted by royalsong at 11:45 AM on May 19

Royalsong, I agree that the circus would not see a great impact by me not going. But this is an ethical question, not a financial one.
posted by charlesv at 11:55 AM on May 19

I used to love the circus too, but haven't been in a long time because I couldn't reconcile the use of animals. I don't know about allegations of mistreatment, but I am pretty sure that, say, elephants are only going to ride little bicycles or whatever under extreme duress. Maaaaaaybe it's all reward based, and there is no bad cop in the picture, but it doesn't seem likely to me.
posted by dirtdirt at 11:56 AM on May 19

You could go to an all-acrobatic show - there are probably local troupes and Circque Du Soliel is touring, I think. (I could look up the spelling on that but... effort.)

Other than that, I like Pollomacho's matching donation idea.
posted by unixrat at 12:13 PM on May 19

Assuming that they do mistreat the elephants, If I go to the circus, am I tacitly endorsing their mistreatment?

I'd say the answer to this question is "yes". In fact, I don't really see how it could be "no". Of course, that does depend on the "Assuming..." part.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 12:23 PM on May 19

My point is then, they will treat the elephants no different if you go or do not go. If you spend the money or not. Take that fact and judge it against your own personal ethics.
posted by royalsong at 12:24 PM on May 19

One of those links is the PETA. I would trust what PETA says about as far as I can throw them.

Yeah, but another of the links is run by the owners of Ringling Bros, so, ditto on the trust issues.

It seems that a verdict is still awaited in the ASPCA trial, so you could wait for that outcome, if you want an objective ruling.

(Also, note that the suit against Ringling was brought by ASPCA, not PETA.)
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 12:28 PM on May 19

First question is: are the allegations for real?

Well, let's say the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle--which is to say that they're mistreating animals (at least from the perspective of someone interested in animals' welfare), but that the treatment could probably be much worse, and that both PeTA's condemnations and Ringling's denials are a little propagandistic.

Second question: Assuming that they do mistreat the elephants, If I go to the circus, am I tacitly endorsing their mistreatment? If I don't go to the circus, am I ensuring that the circus will then have less money and will treat the animals even worse?

I think so. I'm not a philosopher or ethicist or whatnot, though, so YMMV. And not necessarily--for example, they might well sell that ticket to somebody else.
posted by box at 12:30 PM on May 19

Cirque de Soleil is the proper spelling and website. a bit closer to your home and also worth checking out is Dell'Arte, a fantastic clown school/performance company based in northern California.
posted by spindle at 12:32 PM on May 19 [1 favorite]

Peta aside, it is pretty clear that elephants are intelligent and have a level of self awareness. They ritually bury their dead, they pass the mirror test, they suffer human-like psychological trauma from their captivity, they retain the memory of their relatives and exhibit recognition after years of separation. Here is a great NY Times article on the subject. (I think you may need to register to see it).

I can't tell you to go to the circus or not, sorry. I would never put my dollars toward any institution which continues to keep and "train" elephants. And the more people who do not the less incentive there is to continue the practice.
posted by sundri at 12:37 PM on May 19 [10 favorites]

Just took my kids to their first circus in April, and I had misgivings too. In the end, my hesitations were outweighed by Mother's guilt and I took them anyway.

The elephants in this Ringling Bros. show did NOT ride bicycles. They did nothing more than marching in circles, posing on 2 legs, leaning down, lying on one side and the getting up. Nothing too extreme or unnatural for elephants to do. However, the PETA sites did talk about elephants being injured by standing on two legs.

The tigers did nothing more exciting than jumping from stool to stool.

There were dogs doing agility and frisbee tricks, white phonies doing marching and running in circles, a pig that wandered around, a porcupine that wandered around, standard horses that held men doing lots of dismounting tricks and handstands, and finally a few husky Shetland ponies that had goats standing on their backs.

The ponies were harnesses two together with a wide plank on their backs. Two goats were harnessed together and balanced on the plank.

Aside from the ponies and goats - I did feel that all the animal portions of the circus were quite ordinary (and pretty boring in fact).

So, if you choose to go to a Ringling Bros. show, I don't think you'll feel like you're watching animals being pushed too far or being treated unreasonably.
We have no way to know how they are treated when the show is over.
posted by Mrs_Eep at 12:45 PM on May 19 [1 favorite]

I got into this conversation with a vegan friend recently. He provided this for more info.
posted by COD at 1:03 PM on May 19

sundri: "they suffer human-like psychological trauma from their captivity"

End of argument, as far as I'm concerned.
posted by Joe Beese at 1:09 PM on May 19

This is from Wikipedia, but it's sourced from external articles (and court documents, I presume).

In testimony in U.S. District Court, CEO Kenneth Feld acknowledged that elephants are struck behind the ears, under the chin and on their legs with metal tipped prods, called bull hooks. Feld stated that these practices are necessary to protect circus workers. Feld also acknowledged that an elephant trainer was reprimanded for using an electric shock device, known as a hot shot or electric prod, on an elephant, which Feld also stated was appropriate practice. Feld denied that any of these practices harm elephants.

If you don't like PETA, that's fine, but PETA is not the only one reporting on these apparent circus abuses. Here's another animal group's perspective. They've filed a lawsuit based upon the admitted treatment of elephants with the aforementioned bull hooks and prods.
posted by cmgonzalez at 1:28 PM on May 19 [1 favorite]

Juast seconding spindle's suggestion to check out Del'Arte. I've seen performances by graduates from their program that really blew my mind. The shear physicality of their performance was much cooler than watching non-human mammals stand on two legs.
posted by ladypants at 2:38 PM on May 19

My point is then, they will treat the elephants no different if you go or do not go.

But if enough people become troubled by the mistreatment of elephants and stop going, they will eventually treat the elephants differently. (PETA aside, that testimony from Feld seems damaging to them. Once I learned how smart elephants are, I could never look at a circus elephant w/o sadness. Even if they're getting the elephant equivalent of puppies and rainbows all the time, they're still in captivity.)

The most important thing, I think, is that if you're troubled by it, don't go. It will just make you feel terrible.
posted by Mavri at 2:56 PM on May 19

Sundri: I remember reading that NYT article when it was in the magazine originally and being disturbed by the image on the cover. It's what started me thinking about this.

I have regularly attended the circus for years, and the Ringling Bros allegations surfaced just after my visit last summer at Staples. My concern is more with how the animals are treated after the show. I actually don't mind that their job involves doing unnatural things. Hell, I sit at a computer 10 hours a day, and that is damn well not a natural position for the human body. Now, if my boss decided to beat me with a metal hook after work, I might take a different view of things.

I agree that Cirque de Soleil is awesome. I have seen them many several times, in Vegas, New Jersey and Milan. I have never seen Dell'Arte but will have to check it out.
posted by charlesv at 4:57 PM on May 19

Dell'Arte is indeed awesome, although about 10 hours from you. Somewhat closer is San Francisco Circus School, which does great student shows, as well as having a rad professional company. There are tons of non-animal circuses. If the animal thing really bothers you (as it does me), circus is in no way closed to you.

Closer to you, these guys seem pretty interesting, as do these guys.

If you ever get a chance to see Circus Contraption (Seattle based), do it! They're excellent.
posted by mollymayhem at 6:25 PM on May 19

You know, I went to the Circus for Old Times Sake a couple of years ago, because my parents would take us regularly as kids. I also had misgivings about all things animal related, and although I didn't note any animal being mistreated in the ring, it was still an uneasy setting. A lot of it was depressing because the animals and the people looked sad, for all their smiling. But it's changed a lot since we were kids, and a bit of the magic is lost. I'm glad I went, but I don't know that I'll ever go again. I certainly can't tell you what to do, but I can at least share my experience.
posted by cachondeo45 at 7:42 PM on May 19

Does it have to be an animal-based circus? I train with a circus company here that's all-human (and all-women), and mostly acrobatic - with some aerials and manipulation (juggling) thrown in. They also do a great deal of community arts work. There's bound to be tons of alternative/urban/community circus groups in your area that would give you the circus experience but not deal with the ethical issues surrounding animals.
posted by divabat at 9:21 PM on May 19