Did I ask a racist question?
May 12, 2009 10:14 AM Subscribe
Did President Obama request Soulja Boy from Russ Parr while with his daughters in the Oval Office?
So I created a firestorm around myself today without realizing it. After listening to a snippet from a radio interview on the local Hip-Hop/R&B radio station, I asked my friends on facebook if they felt more connected to the President because he was the type of individual who would request a song by Soulja Boy while on the phone with a radio DJ.
I am white. The friends who responded were black.
I was called a hateful racist, and several friends have "unfriended" me. I can't fathom what exactly I did wrong, except that some friends commented I am not stupid enough to believe that the President of the United States would request a song on the radio, and therefore I must be asking the question in a mocking, degrading way.
Obviously I'm just in shock. An attempt on my part to understand other people's emotional reactions to something has left me reeling. I simply could recall that I felt interested when I learned that Bush had some of the same songs on his iPod as I have, and I wondered whether some of my black friends ever thought that they would have a President who listens to rap in the White House. The phone call itself was ancillary to the question, but it became the focus, and now I'm being beaten up and down for it. Isn't there some legitimacy to imagining that "the first black President" is a concept too vast to grasp, except in certain surprising instances like finding out that he's listening to Soulja Boy in the Oval Office? Maybe there's a racist presumption inherent to the question--of course a white President or a black President can listen to anything they want--but I was still powerfully struck by the new context of the moment: a black man requests a Hip-Hop song on the radio for his daughter...but he's sitting at the White House. Is something I'm feeling about the importance of that paradigm shift wrong? Are white people not allowed to ask questions about race? How can progress on race relations be made when legitimate attempts at understand are met with derision?
But the real question is this: Did such a phone conversation take place, or was I duped by a prank that didn't seem at all intended to be funny? If it did take place, where can I find a transcript of the conversation...or better yet a recording?
So I created a firestorm around myself today without realizing it. After listening to a snippet from a radio interview on the local Hip-Hop/R&B radio station, I asked my friends on facebook if they felt more connected to the President because he was the type of individual who would request a song by Soulja Boy while on the phone with a radio DJ.
I am white. The friends who responded were black.
I was called a hateful racist, and several friends have "unfriended" me. I can't fathom what exactly I did wrong, except that some friends commented I am not stupid enough to believe that the President of the United States would request a song on the radio, and therefore I must be asking the question in a mocking, degrading way.
Obviously I'm just in shock. An attempt on my part to understand other people's emotional reactions to something has left me reeling. I simply could recall that I felt interested when I learned that Bush had some of the same songs on his iPod as I have, and I wondered whether some of my black friends ever thought that they would have a President who listens to rap in the White House. The phone call itself was ancillary to the question, but it became the focus, and now I'm being beaten up and down for it. Isn't there some legitimacy to imagining that "the first black President" is a concept too vast to grasp, except in certain surprising instances like finding out that he's listening to Soulja Boy in the Oval Office? Maybe there's a racist presumption inherent to the question--of course a white President or a black President can listen to anything they want--but I was still powerfully struck by the new context of the moment: a black man requests a Hip-Hop song on the radio for his daughter...but he's sitting at the White House. Is something I'm feeling about the importance of that paradigm shift wrong? Are white people not allowed to ask questions about race? How can progress on race relations be made when legitimate attempts at understand are met with derision?
But the real question is this: Did such a phone conversation take place, or was I duped by a prank that didn't seem at all intended to be funny? If it did take place, where can I find a transcript of the conversation...or better yet a recording?
This post was deleted for the following reason: poster's request. -- jessamyn
Response by poster: No, but I imagine a father would not refuse his daughters' request.
posted by jefficator at 10:25 AM on May 12, 2009
posted by jefficator at 10:25 AM on May 12, 2009
Well, first off, you assumed that all of your black friends are into rap. Which it would seem you only assumed because they are black. Then, you asked them if they felt more connected to the President, because he is the "type of individual that would request a song by Soulja Boy while on the phone with a radio DJ." Just what "type of individual" would do that?
You really need to look at what you were inferring about your friends (based solely on their race) and on their opinion of the President (also based solely on his race.) Yeah it was racist. I don't think you meant any harm, but there are a hell of a lot of race based assumptions going on in your post that you obviously aren't aware of.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 10:28 AM on May 12, 2009
You really need to look at what you were inferring about your friends (based solely on their race) and on their opinion of the President (also based solely on his race.) Yeah it was racist. I don't think you meant any harm, but there are a hell of a lot of race based assumptions going on in your post that you obviously aren't aware of.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 10:28 AM on May 12, 2009
I think your friends are mad because you fell for what sounds like an obvious (and sort of racist) parody. If you saw a "news broadcast" showing Barack at a drive-thru picking up chicken and watermelon, you'd be expected to recognize that a) it's a joke and b) it's a bad joke.
This. Your question is not going to get you an answer that will address what seems to be the problem -- that you unintentionally offended and hurt some of your friends, friends who it sounds like you would never want to hurt and whose friendship you want to retain. The truth of the tale seems far less important, and honestly I think something like this would have landed on Wonkette in about three seconds if it were true. But that aside.
I know this isn't a direct answer to your question, and I hope it helps nonetheless.
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 10:30 AM on May 12, 2009
This. Your question is not going to get you an answer that will address what seems to be the problem -- that you unintentionally offended and hurt some of your friends, friends who it sounds like you would never want to hurt and whose friendship you want to retain. The truth of the tale seems far less important, and honestly I think something like this would have landed on Wonkette in about three seconds if it were true. But that aside.
I know this isn't a direct answer to your question, and I hope it helps nonetheless.
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 10:30 AM on May 12, 2009
Let me go a little further: Soulja Boy is widely considered to be both a hack and an idiot. When people criticize the sexism and shallow materialism and moral emptiness in hip-hop music, when they talk about how hip-hop is bad for children, they're talking about people like Soulja Boy.
I don't know whether Barack Obama listens to hip-hop. Even if he does, though, he probably doesn't listen to Soulja Boy. Russ Parr doesn't play a lot of Soulja Boy on his show, either. No offense intended, but it sounds like a lot of black culture is pretty foreign to you. I don't know what your friends are mad about, but that may be a contributing factor.
posted by box at 10:32 AM on May 12, 2009
I don't know whether Barack Obama listens to hip-hop. Even if he does, though, he probably doesn't listen to Soulja Boy. Russ Parr doesn't play a lot of Soulja Boy on his show, either. No offense intended, but it sounds like a lot of black culture is pretty foreign to you. I don't know what your friends are mad about, but that may be a contributing factor.
posted by box at 10:32 AM on May 12, 2009
Response by poster: I have offered all of the requisite apologies.
Let me be clear for a moment. I'm not talking about something jokey voiced Obama impersonator calling up Dingo and the Baby saying using the verbal equivalent of blackface to request a song and then send a shout out. Russ Parr, with whom Obama spoke just prior to the election, seems to have been interviewing the President about his time in office. In what I assume was the conclusion of the interview, they moved from substantive questions to "so what is going on at the White House." President Obama said that he and his daughters were relaxing in the Oval Office. He then said that one of his daughters was tugging his arm asking him to request Soulja Boy. Parr asked President Obama if he was a Soulja Boy fan himself. President Obama responded that he might just consider trying to make Soulja Boy a soldier. The President chuckled and then the tag line for the radio show was played. I missed a lot, but remember that much entirely.
My reaction was positive to what I heard. Not, "Haha. That's funny. They sure nailed their impression of a steretypical individual engaging in a stereotype." My immediate reaction was, "Wow. I wonder how I would feel if I were black person and I was listening to this radio station because it plays my favorite music, and suddenly I live in a world where my PRESIDENT is likely to be listening to the same station." I assumed someone would swell with pride, and I was hoping to have my friends verbalize that pride.
Everything hinges, however, on whether the interview was legit, or whether it was an amazingly subdued radio prank. Either is possible, and I'm hoping someone can help exonerate me.
posted by jefficator at 10:34 AM on May 12, 2009
Let me be clear for a moment. I'm not talking about something jokey voiced Obama impersonator calling up Dingo and the Baby saying using the verbal equivalent of blackface to request a song and then send a shout out. Russ Parr, with whom Obama spoke just prior to the election, seems to have been interviewing the President about his time in office. In what I assume was the conclusion of the interview, they moved from substantive questions to "so what is going on at the White House." President Obama said that he and his daughters were relaxing in the Oval Office. He then said that one of his daughters was tugging his arm asking him to request Soulja Boy. Parr asked President Obama if he was a Soulja Boy fan himself. President Obama responded that he might just consider trying to make Soulja Boy a soldier. The President chuckled and then the tag line for the radio show was played. I missed a lot, but remember that much entirely.
My reaction was positive to what I heard. Not, "Haha. That's funny. They sure nailed their impression of a steretypical individual engaging in a stereotype." My immediate reaction was, "Wow. I wonder how I would feel if I were black person and I was listening to this radio station because it plays my favorite music, and suddenly I live in a world where my PRESIDENT is likely to be listening to the same station." I assumed someone would swell with pride, and I was hoping to have my friends verbalize that pride.
Everything hinges, however, on whether the interview was legit, or whether it was an amazingly subdued radio prank. Either is possible, and I'm hoping someone can help exonerate me.
posted by jefficator at 10:34 AM on May 12, 2009
It sounds like what you said came off as a bit uninformed and insensitive. But to call it and you "racist" is going a bit over the top.
I see absolutely zero ill intent from you, and you're here asking the question because you want to understand better. I also doubt you heard an intentionally racist comedy sketch on the "local Hip-Hop/R&B radio station."
So, yeah: not all black people like hip-hop. Race is a very sensitive issue. Soulja Boy is music for little kids. Keep all of those things in mind, but anyone calling you "hateful" is going way over the top, unless there's part of the story you're leaving out.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:38 AM on May 12, 2009
I see absolutely zero ill intent from you, and you're here asking the question because you want to understand better. I also doubt you heard an intentionally racist comedy sketch on the "local Hip-Hop/R&B radio station."
So, yeah: not all black people like hip-hop. Race is a very sensitive issue. Soulja Boy is music for little kids. Keep all of those things in mind, but anyone calling you "hateful" is going way over the top, unless there's part of the story you're leaving out.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:38 AM on May 12, 2009
I think your friends are probably overreacting.
I'm trying to figure out how to explain this without being horribly offensive, but basically it's a question of social status and class. That song is something that's liked by lower status, low class poor people. I would imagine it's kind of the same way you find poor white people liking NASCAR. If you came up to a rich white person and asked if they liked NASCAR, solely because they were white, they might get offended. Of course it all depends on whatever cultural connotations they have in their own heads at the same time.
But if you say someone likes something that's only liked by people who live in trailer parks, that's like saying they are like people who live in trailer parks. NASCAR isn't a very good match because even though it's loved by lots of poor white people, there are lots of wealthier fans as well.
But it's all about cultural connotations. What do your friends think about people who listen to "Soulja Boy" un-ironically? What cultural connotations does it bring to mind?
Personally I think it's a terrible song.
I don't know what this genera of hiphop is called (krunk?) but it's terrible. Hip hop was good when I was a kid, but this new stuff sucks! Get off my lawn!
posted by delmoi at 10:44 AM on May 12, 2009
I'm trying to figure out how to explain this without being horribly offensive, but basically it's a question of social status and class. That song is something that's liked by lower status, low class poor people. I would imagine it's kind of the same way you find poor white people liking NASCAR. If you came up to a rich white person and asked if they liked NASCAR, solely because they were white, they might get offended. Of course it all depends on whatever cultural connotations they have in their own heads at the same time.
But if you say someone likes something that's only liked by people who live in trailer parks, that's like saying they are like people who live in trailer parks. NASCAR isn't a very good match because even though it's loved by lots of poor white people, there are lots of wealthier fans as well.
But it's all about cultural connotations. What do your friends think about people who listen to "Soulja Boy" un-ironically? What cultural connotations does it bring to mind?
Personally I think it's a terrible song.
I don't know what this genera of hiphop is called (krunk?) but it's terrible. Hip hop was good when I was a kid, but this new stuff sucks! Get off my lawn!
posted by delmoi at 10:44 AM on May 12, 2009
Man, this is a confusing question. I can't see how his requesting a rap song has anything to do with the President's race; there's been no indication that Obama is a fan of rap (he seems to prefer Stevie Wonder et al), and if Bush had requested a rap song for one of his daughters, it would not be remarkable because many white people in their age group like rap. Many, if not most, consumers of rap are white. Your question references a cultural stereotype that is not applicable to the president nor, apparently, your friends. Your friends already knew he was black - I don't see how listening to the same radio station would make them feel more pride. I can't judge whether or not your statement was racist, but I can see how it would be offensive.
posted by desjardins at 10:45 AM on May 12, 2009
posted by desjardins at 10:45 AM on May 12, 2009
Response by poster: No. A facebook status update is like three tweets...there's not enough space for much to be left out. I'm assuming that my friends were assuming the same things people here are mentioning: I should know that its a joke. But there was absolutely nothing jokey about it. It just seemed a legitimate moment to ask a question about specific little moments where the profundity of a black President strike, as opposed to a broad general awareness of "this is historically significant."
Its like when someone dies. It's one thing to say, "My grandmother is dead." Its another thing to realize that you no longer set her place at the table for Sunday dinner. Similarly, its one thing to say, "The President is black for the first time ever." Its another thing to realize he might listen to the same music as you, favor the same sports team as you.
Of course there are racial assumptions implicit in the question: the question impinges on race! But why was the worst assumed?
posted by jefficator at 10:46 AM on May 12, 2009
Its like when someone dies. It's one thing to say, "My grandmother is dead." Its another thing to realize that you no longer set her place at the table for Sunday dinner. Similarly, its one thing to say, "The President is black for the first time ever." Its another thing to realize he might listen to the same music as you, favor the same sports team as you.
Of course there are racial assumptions implicit in the question: the question impinges on race! But why was the worst assumed?
posted by jefficator at 10:46 AM on May 12, 2009
The fact you start out this askme inquiring into whether or not the request was true (and on preview, continue hammering at whether it was true or not) indicates that You Just Don't Get It. It's really not about the facts, it's about your unexamined cultural stereotypes. Your gullibility is a reflection that you are relying on these cultural stereotypes to do your thinking for you.
Let me put it this way: exactly why would it necessarily be so wonderful that a new black president requests (stereotypically black-oriented) rap music for his daughter? Why is that any less racist (in terms of considering the racial aspect above all else), thinking this is so "great," than if some overtly prejudiced person out there is thinking, "Holy hell, now we have a black president requesting some of that crap black music from the White House of all places - the nation is doomed"?
If you don't see how those two things are really two sides of the same coin, then you might want to think more deeply about how subtly racism is embedded in our culture. Either way the situation is a sort of cultural fetish -- "isn't that awful!" or "isn't that cute!" pushing the person's prejudice buttons.
posted by aught at 10:47 AM on May 12, 2009 [3 favorites]
Let me put it this way: exactly why would it necessarily be so wonderful that a new black president requests (stereotypically black-oriented) rap music for his daughter? Why is that any less racist (in terms of considering the racial aspect above all else), thinking this is so "great," than if some overtly prejudiced person out there is thinking, "Holy hell, now we have a black president requesting some of that crap black music from the White House of all places - the nation is doomed"?
If you don't see how those two things are really two sides of the same coin, then you might want to think more deeply about how subtly racism is embedded in our culture. Either way the situation is a sort of cultural fetish -- "isn't that awful!" or "isn't that cute!" pushing the person's prejudice buttons.
posted by aught at 10:47 AM on May 12, 2009 [3 favorites]
Er well, I guess that particular song is also liked by little kids.
posted by delmoi at 10:48 AM on May 12, 2009
posted by delmoi at 10:48 AM on May 12, 2009
Response by poster: No, I'm going to respectfully disagree. I think that there's equal legitimacy to the problem that asking a question that involves race to any degree is immediately presumed to be rooted somehow in negativity. I think its a shame that what I considered to be a springboard to conversation about personal reactions to a historic event has been derailed because people are choosing to assume the worst intentions rather than the best intentions. The hurtful thing is that you are strangers, so I have little thought that you'd be prone to assume the best intentions about something I ask. But these are my FRIENDS thinking I'm being intentionally ignorant and hurtful. I'm just shocked! Obviously I've apologized, but I want to understand WHY this happened the way it has!
posted by jefficator at 10:56 AM on May 12, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by jefficator at 10:56 AM on May 12, 2009 [1 favorite]
Everything hinges, however, on whether the interview was legit, or whether it was an amazingly subdued radio prank.
No, everything hinges on the fact that you asked your friends a question that came off as, "hey all you black people! You like black people music? Obama likes black people music! Isn't that awesome?" Regardless of whether the interview was real, it's a silly question. Your friends' race doesn't determine their taste in music, nor does it determine their political beliefs. You were expecting them, based on race alone, to react in a certain way (pride) to a radio interview with a president they may or may not like about a musician they may or may not like.
While it's possible (we don't have enough details to know) that they overreacted a bit to an innocent question, you definitely made assumptions based on their race about their feelings. Work on not doing that anymore. People don't like it.
I also think that Facebook creates a weird sense of false intimacy that leads to these sorts of misunderstandings. It might have been fine to ask a black friend in a one-on-one conversation about his or her feelings about Obama, but a blast Facebook post isn't a conversation; it's more like shouting at a party. If you're interested in learning more about your individual friends, a mass Facebook post isn't the way to do it. Sending a mass message doesn't make people feel as though you're really interested in their feelings and thoughts as individuals.
posted by decathecting at 10:56 AM on May 12, 2009 [3 favorites]
No, everything hinges on the fact that you asked your friends a question that came off as, "hey all you black people! You like black people music? Obama likes black people music! Isn't that awesome?" Regardless of whether the interview was real, it's a silly question. Your friends' race doesn't determine their taste in music, nor does it determine their political beliefs. You were expecting them, based on race alone, to react in a certain way (pride) to a radio interview with a president they may or may not like about a musician they may or may not like.
While it's possible (we don't have enough details to know) that they overreacted a bit to an innocent question, you definitely made assumptions based on their race about their feelings. Work on not doing that anymore. People don't like it.
I also think that Facebook creates a weird sense of false intimacy that leads to these sorts of misunderstandings. It might have been fine to ask a black friend in a one-on-one conversation about his or her feelings about Obama, but a blast Facebook post isn't a conversation; it's more like shouting at a party. If you're interested in learning more about your individual friends, a mass Facebook post isn't the way to do it. Sending a mass message doesn't make people feel as though you're really interested in their feelings and thoughts as individuals.
posted by decathecting at 10:56 AM on May 12, 2009 [3 favorites]
Also worth noticing: the President specifically dropped Jigga as a name in his iPod. My personal opinions aside, Jay is much more "high" hiphop, while Soldja Boy is much more "low" hiphop, in every sense and in the eyes of anyone who is being honest.
Also notice that in your excerpt Obama politely declined to mention his own opinion of Soldja Boy, breezing the question aside.
A more white analog might be if President John McCain had been giving an interview, and had mentioned that his granddaughter wanted him to request Hannah the Montana be played on the radio. Knowing that Hannah the Montana is white, and McCain is white, and you are white, I might well ask you how you feel about the President of the United States enjoying the same music you enjoy. I mean, you do love Hannah the Montana, don't you? I mean, you ARE white, after all, and I've read on the internet that that stuff is very popular with you people lately.
Ignorance is often a cause for racist or racially insensitive things to be said, but it isn't an excuse.
posted by paisley henosis at 10:58 AM on May 12, 2009 [2 favorites]
Also notice that in your excerpt Obama politely declined to mention his own opinion of Soldja Boy, breezing the question aside.
A more white analog might be if President John McCain had been giving an interview, and had mentioned that his granddaughter wanted him to request Hannah the Montana be played on the radio. Knowing that Hannah the Montana is white, and McCain is white, and you are white, I might well ask you how you feel about the President of the United States enjoying the same music you enjoy. I mean, you do love Hannah the Montana, don't you? I mean, you ARE white, after all, and I've read on the internet that that stuff is very popular with you people lately.
Ignorance is often a cause for racist or racially insensitive things to be said, but it isn't an excuse.
posted by paisley henosis at 10:58 AM on May 12, 2009 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: I get that. I understand that entirely.
posted by jefficator at 10:58 AM on May 12, 2009
posted by jefficator at 10:58 AM on May 12, 2009
Obviously I've apologized, but I want to understand WHY this happened the way it has!
Several people in this thread (delmoi, desjardins, aught) have tried to explain why people may have been offended and why they reacted to your post the way they did.
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 10:59 AM on May 12, 2009
The hurtful thing is that you are strangers, so I have little thought that you'd be prone to assume the best intentions about something I ask. But these are my FRIENDS thinking I'm being intentionally ignorant and hurtful. I'm just shocked! Obviously I've apologized, but I want to understand WHY this happened the way it has!
If your friends think you're being ignorant and hurtful, and strangers think you're being ignorant and hurtful, maybe the problem isn't necessarily with your friends and with the strangers.
posted by Jairus at 11:01 AM on May 12, 2009
If your friends think you're being ignorant and hurtful, and strangers think you're being ignorant and hurtful, maybe the problem isn't necessarily with your friends and with the strangers.
posted by Jairus at 11:01 AM on May 12, 2009
Response by poster: Yes. And I understand what is being said. Truly I do. I'm frustrated, however, because of the perception of negativity. I find it very saddening.
posted by jefficator at 11:03 AM on May 12, 2009
posted by jefficator at 11:03 AM on May 12, 2009
Mod note: a few comments removed - make an effort please, thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:03 AM on May 12, 2009
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:03 AM on May 12, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Help, I can't stop talking! at 10:25 AM on May 12, 2009